Not By Works

[Desertsrose]

LOL
You're too much.
Go have another cup of coffee, green, blue, whatever.
But have another one.

Hi Fran,

Blue has explained what she means. She's agreed that works will follow those who believe, but works don't save a person and they don't.

We're saved by grace through faith with no works, but it's the work of Jesus on the cross that saves us. But she acknowledged that works will follow the person who believes. What more can she say?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Your post here makes no sense. The name of this thread is NOT by works.. Then you say here that we're NOT discussing works..YES, we are because works don't get you into heaven. You're apparently choosing to not understand that.What I said in my previous post is pretty obvious. I SAID that works don't save us. And that's true, they don't.I also said that works are not needed to keep salvation nor to get into heaven. And how did I deride you? By pointing out a truth that you refuse to accept? You insult me by saying that "I'm too much", "go have more coffee", and that I'm "protecting myself". Then when I ask you to answer my question of what I'm protecting myself from, you refuse to answer, get huffy and go off line.. lol
I will pray for you to understand the truth, which is that works won't save you..

What you said is there, plain as day, for all who are interested to read.
No need for you to continue protecting yourself. It can't be done...

We're NOT DISCUSSING WORKS HERE.

But WHAT YOU SAID.

And how you should be careful what you say since it was very confusing and you were using it to deride me.

 

[Desertsrose]

No one denies works or bearing fruit after salvation and the dual aspect of sanctification (sanctified in Christ positionally when saved) and then in our DAILY walk is a process of growth and maturity...we are changed outwardly because of the change inwardly. Being TRANSFORMED by the renewing of the mind which is the study and application of the word....SURE we SIN less and LESS but will never be SINLESS until we have a glorified body....

HOWEVER...the works, fruit and walk does not change one's salvation, justification, sealing and sanctification in Christ positionally which was based upon the genuine act of faith that saved!

Thanks, D.

The reason I asked is because I'm seeing that in the discussions, sometimes we focus on one aspect of the Christian walk and it begins to look like someone is lopsided a bit.

I know what you believe, but for the sake of others who are seeing only the grace through faith part, it's good for them to see that you believe in obedience once we're saved as we're being sanctified.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Ariel, I NEVER said that she teaches works salvation. But she DOES believe they're necessary to keep salvation. That just isn't true. I agree with her, that we do need to do works, but NOT for the purpose of getting saved, keeping salvation, or getting into heaven.

Does she really? Or do you misunderstand her stance?

Could you show me a post were she is teaching works salvation?

Last post I read she was talking about the need to Do good works after you are saved, which everyone here that I know of supports. Of course if we always say "God works through us to do those good works" folks would fight less.

 

[Ariel82]

You know what, seriously just ignore. If a person is THAT childish in the way they act, it's just not worth it. Just let it go, don't get angry, it's only a a troll (some loser) doing a wind up. It's not worth it.

Hey, this makes me really want to throw a cake at you.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I'm not angry. I'm just trying to show her a truth that she doesn't want to believe..

You know what, seriously just ignore. If a person is THAT childish in the way they act, it's just not worth it. Just let it go, don't get angry, it's only a a troll (some loser) doing a wind up. It's not worth it.

 

[Ariel82]

Ariel, I NEVER said that she teaches works salvation. But she DOES believe they're necessary to keep salvation. That just isn't true. I agree with her, that we do need to do works, but NOT for the purpose of getting saved, keeping salvation, or getting into heaven.

Am I gonna get bombarded if I say I agree with her?

We do need good works to keep our salvation.....




(waits to be bombarded with cake before adding.....)


It's a good thing that it's not US but God through Us that does those good works.

(Bows and eats cake from hair)

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yeah I saw them..

Go read the last two posts in the sin thread I started......

 

[blue_ladybug]

Ariel, please explain HOW works help us KEEP salvation. They don't, sorry but they don't.. We ARE to do them, but they are NOT essential to keeping salvation. There is only one way to lose our salvation and that is to deny and reject Jesus.

Am I gonna get bombarded if I say I agree with her?

We do need good works to keep our salvation.....




(waits to be bombarded with cake before adding.....)


It's a good thing that it's not US but God through Us that does those good works.

(Bows and eats cake from hair)

 

[Ariel82]

No one denies works or bearing fruit after salvation and the dual aspect of sanctification (sanctified in Christ positionally when saved) and then in our DAILY walk is a process of growth and maturity...we are changed outwardly because of the change inwardly. Being TRANSFORMED by the renewing of the mind which is the study and application of the word....SURE we SIN less and LESS but will never be SINLESS until we have a glorified body....

HOWEVER...the works, fruit and walk does not change one's salvation, justification, sealing and sanctification in Christ positionally which was based upon the genuine act of faith that saved!

Careful Dcon, you just painted a target on you to be attacked from the other side of folks who will yell "Jesus did it all for me, I don't need to do anything. I don't need to change or repent or anything"

Or....". How dare you say I still have sin? Just cuz your a sinner doesn't mean I can't figure a way to be sinless."

 

[blue_ladybug]

God never told us that we are saved by works. Nor that we have to do works to keep our salvation. He commands us to do works because it fits with His commandment to love thy neighbor. Jesus said by your faith you are saved. NOT "by your works you are saved."

Am I gonna get bombarded if I say I agree with her?

We do need good works to keep our salvation.....




(waits to be bombarded with cake before adding.....)


It's a good thing that it's not US but God through Us that does those good works.

(Bows and eats cake from hair)

 

[dcontroversal]

Ariel, please explain HOW works help us KEEP salvation. They don't, sorry but they don't.. We ARE to do them, but they are NOT essential to keeping salvation. There is only one way to lose our salvation and that is to deny and reject Jesus.

AMEN......it is clear..

saved UNTO good works.................

NOT

SAVED BY WORKS........

ANY work produced is the RESULT of salvation and faith....both given by GOD

 

[Ariel82]

Ariel, please explain HOW works help us KEEP salvation. They don't, sorry but they don't.. We ARE to do them, but they are NOT essential to keeping salvation. There is only one way to lose our salvation and that is to deny and reject Jesus.

It's part of God changing us and making us new creations in Christ.

Part of who we are is WHAT we DO. For me salvation isn't just getting into heaven. It is our whole life being transformed into who God wants us to be, doing what God made us to do.

He doesn't save us from Just a future hell but He saves us from our present one too.

Salvation is not something we look for in the future but God's power to transform our hearts and lives Now.

So works are needed to transform us and those around us so that we can experience fully salvation NOW and not just in the future.

Next we should talk about what are good works....

I think I am gonna make some tea and have lunch...all this cake talk makes me hungry.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Well I'm done explaining my views on it. Those who DO believe that works are essential for getting, and keeping salvation, can continue fooling themselves. Come judgement day, all their good works WON'T impress God, nor earn them a ticket into heaven.

AMEN......it is clear..

saved UNTO good works.................

NOT

SAVED BY WORKS........

ANY work produced is the RESULT of salvation and faith....both given by GOD

 

[blue_ladybug]

I agree for the most part. But they are not essential to KEEP salvation.

It's part of God changing us and making us new creations in Christ.

Part of who we are is WHAT we DO. For me salvation isn't just getting into heaven. It is our whole life being transformed into who God wants us to be, doing what God made us to do.

Salvation is not something we look for in the future but God's power to transform our hearts and lives Now.

So works are needed to transform us and those around us so that we can experience fully salvation NOW and not just in the future.

Next we should talk about what are good works....

I think I am gonna make some tea and have lunch...all this cake talk makes me hungry.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Good works are anything that we do for others, and not ourselves. Washing my own dishes is a good work but it only benefits me, and not someone else..lol

 

[dcontroversal]

Well I'm done explaining my views on it. Those who DO believe that works are essential for getting, and keeping salvation, can continue fooling themselves. Come judgement day, all their good works WON'T impress God, nor earn them a ticket into heaven.

Jesus was clear....MANY (plenteous in number) will come before his throne boasting in their works as aright to enter<--NO dice

and

PAUL was clear...Those who think faith saves and then is made complete by works at also deceived...a different gospel, no power to save and double cursed<---again no dice

FAITH alone saves, justifies, seals and sanctifies a man or woman positionally.....to embellish with works taints the message and will not make the cut

 

[Ariel82]

Good works are anything that we do for others, and not ourselves. Washing my own dishes is a good work but it only benefits me, and not someone else..lol

You can wash my dishes...that would benefit me and my kids and my husband, lol.

We have physical good works and spiritual good works.

Forgiveness, prayer, displaying fruits of the spirit, living your life as an ambassador for Christ, etc.

 

[Ariel82]

I agree for the most part. But they are not essential to KEEP salvation.

This conversation reminds me of this passage from the Bible..


1 Corinthians 3:11-15 King James Version (KJV)


11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.


14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


****

Some people have a weak faith and don't have that blessed assistance and some have built upon a different foundation.

We have to pray and ask God to help us discern the difference and how we can bring them to the full knowledge of Christ and his love for us.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I've been speaking of physical works all along. Maybe that's what Fran was misunderstanding..

You can wash my dishes...that would benefit me and my kids and my husband, lol.

We have physical good works and spiritual good works.

Forgiveness, prayer, displaying fruits of the spirit, living your life as an ambassador for Christ, etc.