Israel Is The Church, The Church Is Israel

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K

kaylagrl

Guest
#81
Quote "Ok, then Jesus was an anti-semite."

Jesus was a Jew,and He was against the Pharisees. Jesus said He can to fulfill the law,not abolish it. I know there are people who are "Judaizers" and I disagree with them. I believe the Jews will be saved the same way we all are.I do not hold with the Judaizers at all.

 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#82
The point is though Trof that Ephesians 2 is explicit in identifying the Church (followers of Jesus) as being part of the commonwealth of Israel. It is there in black and white (v12), so it is not confusing or mysterious.

Ephesians 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

And it is reiterated in verse 19; the household of God is Abraham's household, and the gentile (non-Israelite) believers have now been made Israelites. They have become fellowcitizens.

IT IS UNEQUIVOCAL, EXPLICIT, AND INDUBITABLE.

We can I agree, define 'Church' and 'Israel', to clear the mists of confusion, but Ephesians 2 does for us anyhow..

Against the scriptures there is no retort, other than vain and jangling accusations such as the ones made by Demi, and Kayla, (that we are "anti-semitic"), which is actually quite a sinful thing to do. I understand that Demi is immature, but Kayla has no excuse.
What constitutes the "commonwealth of Israel"?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#83
Will pray for you and your illness spurgeoncy. That God shows you a way to still be a useful member of the Body of Christ and that He encompasses you with His love and healing presence,
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#85
What constitutes the "commonwealth of Israel"?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

apallotrioo - to shut out of fellowship

politeia - from the rights of a citizenship of / from the community of

Given that Paul talks about the breaking own of the middle wall of division between Israelites and Non-Israelites in the Temple,

it means surely:

Being excluded from the religious (and civic) rights of Israel,

i.e being a non-Israelite.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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#87
to say someone is anti-Semitic because they believe that Gentiles have been accepted into and become a part of true Israel, is utterly illogical.

Incidentally it was GOD who cast off the useless branches in the olive tree of Israel (Jer 11.16),
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#88
The word commonwealth appears only one time in the bible. It refers to the nation of Israel as relates to the government or political arena of Israel. I see that as significant in that Israel from the religious political aspect taught that Gentiles were not worthy of salvation. Verse twelve is confirming that the blood of Christ is efficacious for all men Gentiles and Jews alike. It is teaching that men do not need to be religious but need to receive Christ without respect to ethnic distinction.

OT saints and NT saints Jewish or Gentile all partake of the grace of God and there is no difference. All are able to approach God and enter into His presence. OT temple Gentiles could not enter the inner courts because they were not Jewish. In essence preventing them from coming into the presence and worshipping God.

The argument over OT Israel and NT church is much like the argument to Jesus by the sons of Zebedee as to who would be greater in the kingdom. OT saints being merged into the NT church may be seen as a diminishing of the OT saints.

Mark 10:35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.
36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
41 And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.
42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#89
So I'm a completed Jew.....and there are a un regenerated Christian.....hhhmmmmmmm.

Christians are a new creature in Christ, old things have passed away all things become new.

When you hear peace and safety have come to Israel you better run....sudden destruction follows.

A messianic Jew is not a Christian but still a Jew he is not grafted in but part of the branch. Gentile Christians are grafted in.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#90
Im so happy to say,and I hope Spurgeoncy doesn't mind, that we have laid our differences at the foot of the cross. After a chat,thanks to a PM, we may still have differences but we have a new understanding of each other I think. Im so glad we've laid it down and made peace. Now I need a nickname I can call you that I can spell!! I always have to look back so I dont get it wrong.lol Blessings to you!
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#91
Yes, sorry Kayla. I have been really horrid to you. I am sorry.

Call me Spg if you like

Im so happy to say,and I hope Spurgeoncy doesn't mind, that we have laid our differences at the foot of the cross. After a chat,thanks to a PM, we may still have differences but we have a new understanding of each other I think. Im so glad we've laid it down and made peace. Now I need a nickname I can call you that I can spell!! I always have to look back so I dont get it wrong.lol Blessings to you!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#92
Yes, sorry Kayla. I have been really horrid to you. I am sorry.

Call me Spg if you like

Awww don't worry,I got a few good kicks in myself.Im sorry too. Spg,now why didn't I think of that?! lol We're all good!