Popeless Catholics
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I think I said that things started to change and it became more and more a man made kind of religion.
For example, confession changed throughout the early centuries. Baptism. Purgatory showed up in the 800's, if I remember correctly.
What I'm saying is that there was only one church that evolved into the RCC.
Fran
For example, confession changed throughout the early centuries. Baptism. Purgatory showed up in the 800's, if I remember correctly.
What I'm saying is that there was only one church that evolved into the RCC.
Fran
Sorry to disagree again with you.
You say you rather keep history pure.
Pure in what way?
Representing the truth?
How does someone claiming that the RCC represents the universal church of Christ represent the truth?
How do evil popes as leaders of God's universal truth keep things pure.
How do crusades keep Christianity pure?
How do inquisitions keep things pure?
How does forgetting the inquisition ever happened keep things pure?
How does the Vatican existing keep things pure?
There is nothing pure in anything I just asked.
This church should not and does not represent Christianity., no matter what they claim.
You say you rather keep history pure.
Pure in what way?
Representing the truth?
How does someone claiming that the RCC represents the universal church of Christ represent the truth?
How do evil popes as leaders of God's universal truth keep things pure.
How do crusades keep Christianity pure?
How do inquisitions keep things pure?
How does forgetting the inquisition ever happened keep things pure?
How does the Vatican existing keep things pure?
There is nothing pure in anything I just asked.
This church should not and does not represent Christianity., no matter what they claim.
Hi Allen,
I'd like to keep history pure in the sense that even though we may not like it, it's still the truth.
The RCC does not represent the universal Church of Christ.
The word Catholic means Universal. I'm sure you know this. So, it was the UNIVERSAL Church of Christ because there were no Others.
I agree re evil Popes. They were and are just humans like everyone else and they make mistakes and when big people make mistakes the make big mistakes. I don't even like that the Pope is said to be infallible when speaking ex-cathedra. What does this mean?? That the Holy Spirit is powerful in him only in these moments of seeking the truth??
I agree with the Crusades. I know that wrong was done, as it is in every war. But if it weren't for the crusades, Islam would be in power right now. And probably even in America IF the travel to America would even have been allowed by the Islamic Theocracy, had they been allowed to continue to rule Europe.
I don't like to talk about the inquisition because it gives me nightmares, and shows man's evil at its worse.
The Vatican.
Every denomination has its "vatican". It's just not as rich and as powerful.
How do they NOT represent Christianity? They believe in all the basic tenets.
We disagree on doctrine, but they'll Always explain theirs if asked, even if we don't agree.
They believe Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.
They believe He is the begotten Son of God.
They believe in the Trinity or Godhead.
They believe He was born, was crucified for our sins.
They believe He was resurrected on the third day and is seated at the right hand of God.
Every Church disagrees in some way with other churches.
What about them bothers you so much??
Fran
I'd like to keep history pure in the sense that even though we may not like it, it's still the truth.
The RCC does not represent the universal Church of Christ.
The word Catholic means Universal. I'm sure you know this. So, it was the UNIVERSAL Church of Christ because there were no Others.
I agree re evil Popes. They were and are just humans like everyone else and they make mistakes and when big people make mistakes the make big mistakes. I don't even like that the Pope is said to be infallible when speaking ex-cathedra. What does this mean?? That the Holy Spirit is powerful in him only in these moments of seeking the truth??
I agree with the Crusades. I know that wrong was done, as it is in every war. But if it weren't for the crusades, Islam would be in power right now. And probably even in America IF the travel to America would even have been allowed by the Islamic Theocracy, had they been allowed to continue to rule Europe.
I don't like to talk about the inquisition because it gives me nightmares, and shows man's evil at its worse.
The Vatican.
Every denomination has its "vatican". It's just not as rich and as powerful.
How do they NOT represent Christianity? They believe in all the basic tenets.
We disagree on doctrine, but they'll Always explain theirs if asked, even if we don't agree.
They believe Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.
They believe He is the begotten Son of God.
They believe in the Trinity or Godhead.
They believe He was born, was crucified for our sins.
They believe He was resurrected on the third day and is seated at the right hand of God.
Every Church disagrees in some way with other churches.
What about them bothers you so much??
Fran
Oh, the deifying of Mary, the control of the people by way of priests, and confessions, and people getting down on their knees and kissing his ring, and the pope getting on his knees when he gets off the plane in the U.S. and kisses the ground, signifying that he is claiming America for himself rather then showing due respect to a foreign country, and the beat goes on.....
I like most of your post, but I will have to disagree with the statement that the Catholic Church saved Christianity (kept Christianity together).
I do assume that we have the Cannon that we have because of Constantine. But the Church was thriving under persecution - they could not be defeated until they were accepted as the government religion, then deterioration quickly followed.
The RCC is modeled much more like the Roman government than Biblical pattern.
I do assume that we have the Cannon that we have because of Constantine. But the Church was thriving under persecution - they could not be defeated until they were accepted as the government religion, then deterioration quickly followed.
The RCC is modeled much more like the Roman government than Biblical pattern.
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Hi Timeline,
This is what I said -- regarding what saved Christianity...
This first Church, which later developed into the RCC at the time of Constantine, is what kept Christianity together.
By the "First Church" I mean that new Church with new bishops that kept Christianity thriving both under persectution and under heresies that arose which would have scattered both people of the faith and the "Church".
It was called the Universal, or catholic, Church. (before the 300's and the RCC)
Do you not agree that this is what kept Christianity together?
If not, what do you think did, or WHO do you think did?
I refer, of course, to all the early Church fathers.
Fran
This is what I said -- regarding what saved Christianity...
This first Church, which later developed into the RCC at the time of Constantine, is what kept Christianity together.
By the "First Church" I mean that new Church with new bishops that kept Christianity thriving both under persectution and under heresies that arose which would have scattered both people of the faith and the "Church".
It was called the Universal, or catholic, Church. (before the 300's and the RCC)
Do you not agree that this is what kept Christianity together?
If not, what do you think did, or WHO do you think did?
I refer, of course, to all the early Church fathers.
Fran
Throughout the history of God's people, OT Israel and the Church, they have always been more faithful, obedient servants of God when they/we are under persecution. It is a shame really, but when we get comfortable we forget and grow away from God.
We may be saying the same thing, but I don't think so. I am saying that while Christians, before Constantine, were dealing with constant persecution the Church thrived - because people remain faithful to God when the pressure is on and those seeing the perseverance of Christians are intrigued as to what you have that they don't.
When Constantine "converted" to Christianity and made it the world religion men started getting comfortable and made compromises. I do credit Constantine with getting them to establish the New Testament and determine which letters were not legitimate. I suppose he did this for his own political reasons, but it needed to happen.
I think that what followed would be like the story of Balaam. Balak tried to curse them three times - didn't work. But then they merged with the people, became corrupt, and were cursed because of their own behavior.
I think I know what you're saying. Believe it or not, over here priests actually expressed that maybe the crises of 2011 would bring people back to church. It didn't. In fact, it's just getting worse.
When people are well-off they do think of God less.
At least those who don't love Him, but think of Him only in terms of their own needs.
Fran
When people are well-off they do think of God less.
At least those who don't love Him, but think of Him only in terms of their own needs.
Fran