GIANTS

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Nov 26, 2012
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I have a very serious question for you. Do you believe that ignoring something plainly stated will make it go away?

There are different kinds of angels. They have different appearances and are assigned different roles.

Yes, there are ministering spirits or angels but that is not all there are.

There are Seraphim, Cherubim, Archangels, Fallen Angels and some believe that the rulers and powers spoken of by Paul are classes of angels or descriptions of their activities.

Satan is not a lying ministering spirit. He is a liar though. He does not minister. I think you need to look up the meaning of the word minister. The part that is a verb; not a noun.

I have no idea why you might want to gloss over what is actually in the Bible.

I did read your other post and again, thank you for taking the time for your answer. I can understand that you have a different viewpoint but I cannot understand why you might insist there is only one type of angel when it is glaringly apparent that is not so.
In all honesty, in all of my years here I can't recall a single account of anybody changing their mind, regardless of the evidence to the contrary. I am no different, I admit. Clearly I am here for the same reason everybody else is: to share my brilliance and allow the corresponding "likes" to validate the intelligence of everybody else.
 
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sevenseas

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In post 237 Sevenseas said "I have a very serious question for you. Do you believe that ignoring something plainly stated will make it go away?"

Oh thank God we are finally coming out of this social haze where people believe if they ignore something it makes it not so, or if they repeat something enough, they will win the argument.
Those are a sign of the ever sickening morality and thought process's of a Godless nation.
I am glad someone else is speaking up about this.

I believe in critical thought. Ignore what is written at our own expense. There has been a war raging for eons and we are a part of it.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."-Genesis 6:3

Considering that before this some men were not even having their first born until they were 180 years old I think validates that my point. It's not like they were busy playing video games in their parents' basements. They lived hundreds of years. If you scale that to today, they wouldn't be fully grown until about 120 years. That's quite a few growth spurts my friend.
But you do not know for sure if the puberty was later. I personally believe man and woman were physically mature and of child bearing capability in their late teens as today. I can not imagine the childhood process being stretched to 60 years old. Can you imagine a 55-60 year old child? It also goes against a basic rule of nature in that off spring of all species become as independent as soon as possible. You can not assume because people lived longer puberty was later. It could be so, but does not have to be.

Second, this verse refers to when God tells Noah to when the flood rains will come. Do the math, the bible will confirm it.

Third, you are ignoring what I said about verifiable ages of over 120 after the flood. Reminds me of what I said in a post or two ago. If you ignore something, it does not just make it go away.

First we have the people in the bible themselves that lived longer.

Then we have this from Wiki:
"This is a list of tables of the oldest people in the world in ordinal ranks. To avoid including false or unconfirmed claims of extreme old age, names here are restricted to those people whose ages have been validated by an international body that specifically deals in longevity research, such as the Gerontology Research Group (GRG) or Guinness World Records (GWR), and others who have otherwise been reliably sourced.According to this criterion, the longest human lifespan is that of Jeanne Calment of France (1875–1997), who lived to the age of 122 years, 164 days. She met Vincent van Gogh when she was 12 or 13.[SUP][1][/SUP] She received news media attention in 1985, after turning 110. Subsequent investigation found documentation for Calment's age, beyond any reasonable question, in the records of her native city, Arles, France.[SUP][2][/SUP] More evidence of Calment's lifespan has been produced than for any other supercentenarian; her case serves as an archetype in the methodology for verifying the ages of the world's oldest people.[SUP][3]"[/SUP]
 
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JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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In all honesty, in all of my years here I can't recall a single account of anybody changing their mind, regardless of the evidence to the contrary. I am no different, I admit. Clearly I am here for the same reason everybody else is: to share my brilliance and allow the corresponding "likes" to validate the intelligence of everybody else.
Second funniest post of the thread.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Satan IS a ministering spirit. He masquerades as an angel of light, and whispers sweet lies into our ears. It's up to us not to fall for his lies though.. JMO
 
Nov 26, 2012
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Why would they wait over a hundred years to have children if they were capable at fifteen? I also stated in previous posts that it took more than a couple of generations to adjust to the God appointed lifespan. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened but there are no holes in this theory. Food makes changes to DNA. An alcoholic grandparent leads to iron deficiency generations later. All of a sudden they were eating meat and less veggies. Eventually the differences in diet could cause this.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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Why would they wait over a hundred years to have children if they were capable at fifteen? I also stated in previous posts that it took more than a couple of generations to adjust to the God appointed lifespan. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened but there are no holes in this theory. Food makes changes to DNA. An alcoholic grandparent leads to iron deficiency generations later. All of a sudden they were eating meat and less veggies. Eventually the differences in diet could cause this.
Why are you ignoring the proof of the verifiable age of 122 years that I posted?
That blows up your argument right there.

Also, why are you ignoring what I said about going to the bible and confirming the 12o years to the flood?

Did you count it up?
 
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BeyondET

Guest
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And he was about close to a foot shorter then Goliath. And Goliath was probably about 1 and a half to 2 feet shorter then King Og.
And both of them would have been considered "short" giants back in the hey day of those horrific creatures.
Well that depends on what manuscript is used, Goliath's stature as described in various ancient manuscripts varies: the oldest manuscripts—the Dead Sea Scrolls text of Samuel, the 1st century historian Josephus, and the 4th century Septuagint manuscripts—all give his height as "four cubits and a span" (6 feet 9 inches or 2.06 metres) whereas the Masoretic Text gives this as "six cubits and a span" (9 feet 9 inches or 2.97 metres. Either case he was just a very tall Palestine, nothing to do with the six fingers and six toes giant Nephilims.

For humor lol..
[video=youtube;VzsfyxACV7M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzsfyxACV7M[/video]
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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Why would they wait over a hundred years to have children if they were capable at fifteen? I also stated in previous posts that it took more than a couple of generations to adjust to the God appointed lifespan. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened but there are no holes in this theory. Food makes changes to DNA. An alcoholic grandparent leads to iron deficiency generations later. All of a sudden they were eating meat and less veggies. Eventually the differences in diet could cause this.
It may be impossible for us to imagine, but is it possible that people were not as horny and sexually charged as they are today. Is it possible that people waited to have sex until 60 or 70 years old?

If you do the life spans they had, percentage wise it is still about the same as us as to the first time they had sex and at what stage of their longevity they were at.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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Why would they wait over a hundred years to have children if they were capable at fifteen? I also stated in previous posts that it took more than a couple of generations to adjust to the God appointed lifespan. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened but there are no holes in this theory. Food makes changes to DNA. An alcoholic grandparent leads to iron deficiency generations later. All of a sudden they were eating meat and less veggies. Eventually the differences in diet could cause this.
You said it, their diets were different. So were there DNA. It may be that without the junk we eat today that is revving us up that they had a handle on their libido's and actually waited t sleep with someone because they loved them and not for fun.
What a novel idea.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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Why are you ignoring the proof of the verifiable age of 122 years that I posted?
That blows up your argument right there.

Also, why are you ignoring what I said about going to the bible and confirming the 12o years to the flood?

Did you count it up?
I'm not refuting that people live longer than 120 years these days. What I'm saying is that people don't commonly wait until they are over one hundred to start a family. As well, I'm talking about people living to be one thousand years of age. The life expectancy dialed down gradually after the flood, not immediately, which accounts for giants after the flood. What am I missing?
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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Well that depends on what manuscript is used, Goliath's stature as described in various ancient manuscripts varies: the oldest manuscripts—the Dead Sea Scrolls text of Samuel, the 1st century historian Josephus, and the 4th century Septuagint manuscripts—all give his height as "four cubits and a span" (6 feet 9 inches or 2.06 metres) whereas the Masoretic Text gives this as "six cubits and a span" (9 feet 9 inches or 2.97 metres. Either case he was just a very tall Palestine, nothing to do with the six fingers and six toes giant Nephilims.]

Knowing the history of Giants in the bible, and the physical proof we have of that, and the fact that God wanted Israel and David to know he won the battle with Goliath despite the impossible was because of God and not David, I am going with the 9 feet tall version. The six fingers just are the icing on the cake for me. The giants were often grotesque and disfigured creatures in one way or another.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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I'm not refuting that people live longer than 120 years these days. What I'm saying is that people don't commonly wait until they are over one hundred to start a family. As well, I'm talking about people living to be one thousand years of age. The life expectancy dialed down gradually after the flood, not immediately, which accounts for giants after the flood. What am I missing?
Read my post 251 to see what you may be missing. The pre flood world was so different we sometimes can not imagine it.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
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I'm not refuting that people live longer than 120 years these days. What I'm saying is that people don't commonly wait until they are over one hundred to start a family. As well, I'm talking about people living to be one thousand years of age. The life expectancy dialed down gradually after the flood, not immediately, which accounts for giants after the flood. What am I missing?
BTW, the life expectancy's dialed down dramatically and quickly ater the flood, if you ask me.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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BTW, the life expectancy's dialed down dramatically and quickly ater the flood, if you ask me.
That's what I said. Unless you can come up with scripture to explain why they would postpone the command to be fruitful and multiply, for decades, willingly, then I'm going to have to weigh your argument as opinion.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
Well that depends on what manuscript is used, Goliath's stature as described in various ancient manuscripts varies: the oldest manuscripts—the Dead Sea Scrolls text of Samuel, the 1st century historian Josephus, and the 4th century Septuagint manuscripts—all give his height as "four cubits and a span" (6 feet 9 inches or 2.06 metres) whereas the Masoretic Text gives this as "six cubits and a span" (9 feet 9 inches or 2.97 metres. Either case he was just a very tall Palestine, nothing to do with the six fingers and six toes giant Nephilims.]

Knowing the history of Giants in the bible, and the physical proof we have of that, and the fact that God wanted Israel and David to know he won the battle with Goliath despite the impossible was because of God and not David, I am going with the 9 feet tall version. The six fingers just are the icing on the cake for me. The giants were often grotesque and disfigured creatures in one way or another.
The whole story is interesting, was there two Goliath's or just one was Elhanan David? I think there might have been one a tall Palestinian and one who was a descendent of the Giants verse 19

2 Sam 21
15Now when the Philistines were at war again with Israel. David went down and his servants with him; and as they fought against the Philistines, David became weary. 16Then Ishbi-benob, who was among the descendants of the giant, the weight of whose spear was three hundred shekels of bronze in weight, was girded with a new sword, and he intended to kill David. 17But Abishai the son of Zeruiah helped him, and struck the Philistine and killed him. Then the men of David swore to him, saying, “You shall not go out again with us to battle, so that you do not extinguish the lamp of Israel.”
18Now it came about after this that there was war again with the Philistines at Gob; then Sibbecai the Hushathite struck down Saph, who was among the descendants of the giant.

19There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

20There was war at Gath again, where there was a man of great stature who had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number; and he also had been born to the giant. 21When he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimei, David’s brother, struck him down. 22These four were born to the giant in Gath, and they fell by the hand of David and by the hand of his servants.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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That's what I said. Unless you can come up with scripture to explain why they would postpone the command to be fruitful and multiply, for decades, willingly, then I'm going to have to weigh your argument as opinion.
You do not have a scripture to prove me wrong. And I do not have one to prove you incorrect.
Neither of us know for sure.

Still, my argument that people pre flood were very different then us post flood folks is true. My point that they could have just waited until they were older holds a lot of weight. In actuality if you live to be 700 but waited until 80 to have kids, your still making more kids then we are today.
So what group of people is more obedient to Gods command to multiply?

Honestly, your replies while cordial, are the reason why I generally stay off here. And not because you disagree with me. I am fine with that.

I just consider anyone who does not reply directly to valid points made, as you have done, to be people who not only have weak arguments, but also posters who ignore others arguments and go in circles enough times that it is fruitless and useless to put out any more conversation.
Instead of it becoming a entertaining and interesting exchange of ideas all its about is a poster just egotistically and arrogantly trying to drive their points home just for the sake of winning an argument.

That is useless to me.

If you had actually replied directly to my points in a reasonable fashion then I would have considered it a exchange of valid ideas, even if we did not disagree, and would have found it enjoyable and engaging and may have learned something.

All I (re) learned is that people here repeat themselves ad nauseam without making new points, without citing sources, and ignore valid and factual arguments, or ignore points made that may not be fact but have a strong implication for truth based on biblical sources.
I also learned that people here rarely if ever validate that the person with the opposing opinion may have a strong or valid counter point.

It is like a war zone here with a take no prisoner attitudes.

Which is a shame, because even among Christians who disagree their should be a camaraderie and bond among Christians that is common.

The only difference here from the world is that we don't curse or threaten, but the spirit is strikingly similar to the worlds.
 
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sevenseas

Guest
In all honesty, in all of my years here I can't recall a single account of anybody changing their mind, regardless of the evidence to the contrary. I am no different, I admit. Clearly I am here for the same reason everybody else is: to share my brilliance and allow the corresponding "likes" to validate the intelligence of everybody else.


Well, if simply stating the different types of angels the Bible describes makes me brilliant, then so be it.

Too bad we cannot trade in the likes for value coupons.

I have no idea why you responded as you did. This is not the only forum or Christian forum on the net. You may need to get out more.
 
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sevenseas

Guest
Satan IS a ministering spirit. He masquerades as an angel of light, and whispers sweet lies into our ears. It's up to us not to fall for his lies though.. JMO

I would disagree that a lie ministers to anyone.

Jesus said that the devil was a liar from the beginning, the truth is not in him and those who lie are of him,

That is not any type of minister I would care to receive from. To minister to someone, means to care for their needs. It means to help them.

Hope that clears up the misunderstanding regarding that word.