Why dio Christians belive that Jesus had to die?

Blain · Feb 19, 2017

You think what was going on at the temple had to do with pass over? Do you think exchanging money and selling things and working for rome to drain the pockets of the already poor is what should be done in the temple? and especially on pass over? Does God not have wrath? does God not have anger? does he not despise a holy place being disrespected? Also for the record we Christians are not happy about Jesus dying for us we are grateful there is a difference, you speak of God and you speak of the Torah yet you know nothing about him or the torah. For instance Jesus was in fact spoken of in the Torah do you know how many times David described Jesus in psalms? even the things he would do in his time on earth David spoke and Jesus did accurately.

Not to mention when asked to show scripture to prove your point you completely ignore everyone, if all you have is your ideals of who and what God and the messiah is then you have no solid ground to stand on. Jesus will return one day and sadly there are those among your people like you who are repeating history because back then they also had their own idea of God and who and what the messiah would be they also rejected Jesus and also completely misunderstood the holy scriptures and because you are repeating all of this when he comes back you will know your messiah when he appears.

I mean if this is not a major sign of bible prophecy I don't know what is

seed_time_harvest · Feb 19, 2017

resurrection33 said:

And we wouldn't have been offered the grace that JESUS made available because man would have been on their own with no help and all men would come short of the glory of GOD.

No man except JESUS was able to keep the law and HE died on a cross for the world and Eternal Life by grace through faith was made available to all those who believe In the WORD of GOD.

Utah · Feb 19, 2017

Baruch said:

Do you have the faith of Abraham?
I am Jewish I am not sure it’s answer your question. Don’t forget that Abraham talked to god therefore his “faith” isn’t questionable.
Is the Tanakh written by inspiration from God?
Yes, inspiration and study
Do you revere all of the Tanakh and not just the Torah?
Yes
Are you a rabbinic Jew, conservative, orthodox, hasidic or what?
Just a Jew, you don’t get to frame me.
Do you look forward to the Messiah
Not my concern, when he’ll come we’ll all be happy.
What do you believe the Ttanahk says about Messiah?
Peace on earth

Respond to my demand in post 191.

TemporaryCircumstances · Feb 19, 2017

He's banned :/ ?

Desertsrose · Feb 19, 2017

Baruch said:

Hi Baruch,

These aren't questions meant to trap you. I have Jewish friends and I've been to a Messanic church for a couple years. I love the Jewish people. Jesus loves His Jewish people and calls them to repent of their sins and return to God instead of going their own way as He calls all of the nations to turn to God. You're the natural branch and we've been gifted in.

The reason I asked if you had the faith of Abraham is because the Jews during Jesus's time who had the faith of Abraham, accepted Jesus as their Messiah.

The reason I asked if you revere God's word as being inspired by Him and not just the Torah is because there are some who only read Torah. It's very difficult to talk to a person who will reject parts of God's word or only reads Torah.

I wasn't trying to frame you on the next question. If you are rabbinic, it would be very difficult to converse with you about God's word because this group will elevate rabbinic commentary above God's word.

They believe that Moses also received an oral law and that's their focus. They are the present day Pharisees and take man's opinion about what scriptures teach over the actual written word. Their focus is on the Talmud.

Why is the Messiah not your concern? No wonder why so many Jews miss Him in scripture if He is not their concern. Why is it He's not your concern? Magenta posted numerous scriptures about the Jewish Messiah. He is your concern.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given. And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This verse tells us that Messiah will certainly be human - he's a child and a son. And at the same time, He is given titles that can only be said of God. Mighty God is the strongest title given in Isaiah 9:6. El Gibbor - Mighty God.

Isaiah 10:21 The remnant will return, The remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God.[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]The Jews will return to El Gibbor.

And yes, Jesus returns a second time to rule and reign on earth and the whole earth will have peace for 1000 years. He's the Prince of Peace in Isaiah 9:6. Will you be one that returns to God to love Him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength? Will you love your neighbor as yourself. All in the Tanakh and all spoken by your Messiah Jesus.

Utah · Feb 19, 2017

TemporaryCircumstances said:

Good because I was one post away from getting banned myself.

TemporaryCircumstances · Feb 19, 2017

Desertsrose said:

Hi Baruch,

These aren't questions meant to trap you. I have Jewish friends and I've been to a Messanic church for a couple years. I love the Jewish people. Jesus loves His Jewish people and calls them to repent of their sins and return to God instead of going their own way as He calls all of the nations to turn to God. You're the natural branch and we've been gifted in.

The reason I asked if you had the faith of Abraham is because the Jews during Jesus's time who had the faith of Abraham, accepted Jesus as their Messiah.

The reason I asked if you revere God's word as being inspired by Him and not just the Torah is because there are some who only read Torah. It's very difficult to talk to a person who will reject parts of God's word or only reads Torah.

I wasn't trying to frame you on the next question. If you are rabbinic, it would be very difficult to converse with you about God's word because this group will elevate rabbinic commentary above God's word.

They believe that Moses also received an oral law and that's their focus. They are the present day Pharisees and take man's opinion about what scriptures teach over the actual written word. Their focus is on the Talmud.

Why is the Messiah not your concern? No wonder why so many Jews miss Him in scripture if He is not their concern. Why is it He's not your concern? Magenta posted numerous scriptures about the Jewish Messiah. He is your concern.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given. And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This verse tells us that Messiah will certainly be human - he's a child and a son. And at the same time, He is given titles that can only be said of God. Mighty God is the strongest title given in Isaiah 9:6. El Gibbor - Mighty God.

Isaiah 10:21 The remnant will return, The remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God.The Jews will return to El Gibbor.

And yes, Jesus returns a second time to rule and reign on earth and the whole earth will have peace for 1000 years. He's the Prince of Peace in Isaiah 9:6. Will you be one that returns to God to love Him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength? Will you love your neighbor as yourself. All in the Tanakh and all spoken by your Messiah Jesus.

He is banned :/

JosephsDreams · Feb 19, 2017

Probably wandering about the internet looking for another Christian site to ply his wares.

Desertsrose · Feb 19, 2017

TemporaryCircumstances said:

Bummer, I was hoping we could help him find his Messiah especially considering his age.

Adstar · Feb 20, 2017

Why was He banned ?

p_rehbein · Feb 20, 2017

When the Author of an OP (such as this) is banned, I wish the powers that be would just delete the entire Thread...or, at least "lock" it......but, that's just me.........sooooo

Stephen63 · Feb 20, 2017

While it's true that trolls need to be saved like anyone else, why does God's children have to be a respecter of persons & go after them when there's already tons of sinners on CC?

Since being respecter of persons is wrong, there must be something wrong with our motivation, such as personal reasons to go after them.

mailmandan · Feb 20, 2017

Stephen63 · Feb 20, 2017

Titus 3:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.[SUP]10 [/SUP]A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;[SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Stephen63 · Feb 20, 2017

If I had the ability to offer eternal redemption, would I have the right or ability to place conditions on it?

Does it nullify the offer to put conditions on it? Men make free offers all the time, yet there are conditions on those offers.

Knowing the wickedness of man, would it be wise to put conditions on eternal salvation, while providing the ability to meet those conditions?

While love is unconditional, faithfulness isn't.

If God required obedience in the garden, & with Abraham, & in the OT, and God never changes, He's the same yesterday, today, & forever, then God still requires it.

The just shall live by faith.

RomansToPhilemon · Feb 20, 2017

Baruch said:

I think most don't know this but Christ didn't have to die. He could have chosen to keep going and he would have put himself up as a sacrifice later on; he would have been offered up as the sacrificial lamb. But doing so, he would have never had been able to create the body of Christ. Which is were we are today in the dispensation of Grace. If you read 1 Cor 2.6-8, you will read about a mystery God kept secret before he even created the heaven and earth. It's through his death on the cross that God was able to reconcile the heavens back to himself with the body of Christ. Had he not done this, Christ would have his earthly kingdom, but heaven would still be usurped by Satan. God created two realms. Heaven and Earth. Before the apostle Paul, no one looked to go to heaven to be with the Lord. Only till you see Paul get saved and Jesus revealed the hidden wisdom, a secret hid in God, that the body of Christ is formed and people are given the free gift of salvation. Among many other things.

1 Cor 2.6-8
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Eph 3.3-7
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Also compare that with Romans 16.25, Eph 9-10, Gal 1.11-12, Col 1.25-26 (all mystery verses)

mailmandan · Feb 20, 2017

Stephen63 said:

Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The just shall live by faith AFTER they have been saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9). What other "conditions" are you trying to "add" to salvation through faith in Christ?

FreeNChrist · Feb 20, 2017

Stephen63 said:

If I had the ability to offer eternal redemption, would I have the right or ability to place conditions on it?

Does it nullify the offer to put conditions on it? Men make free offers all the time, yet there are conditions on those offers.

Knowing the wickedness of man, would it be wise to put conditions on eternal salvation, while providing the ability to meet those conditions?

While love is unconditional, faithfulness isn't.

If God required obedience in the garden, & with Abraham, & in the OT, and God never changes, He's the same yesterday, today, & forever, then God still requires it.

The just shall live by faith.

Faith is not a "condition", it is the "means". The means of freely receiving what God freely gives.

seed_time_harvest · Feb 20, 2017

I don't get It,why post post #214 and then Immediately go against what was said In post #214 by posting #215?

PeterJens · Feb 20, 2017

Baruch said:

Jesus had to die, so that we might know God forgives us for the worst of our sins,
and desires to be our friend, even when we run the hardest to go the other way.

It also demonstrated how guilty we all are, when faced with the truth, we would rather
bury it for a political solution today and live in peace, rather than face conflict and resolve
the deep sins and evil deeds we live with because of our sinful lives, which are slowly killing us.

Why dio Christians belive that Jesus had to die?

The Word Weaver

Senior Member

Banned

TemporaryCircumstances

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

TemporaryCircumstances

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

RomansToPhilemon

Guest

Senior Member

FreeNChrist

Guest

Senior Member

Banned