What is a fiction sermon, or is the gospel correct. Please define Lot's story

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KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,664
359
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#1
Greetings cc members. There was a sermon that Lot's daughters were violently taken and abused..
If I am not mistaken, Sodom/Gomorrah was a very homosexual town, and when the 2 men angels came to lead his family out of it, they wanted the 2 pure looking ones, who were the angels.
Lot offered them his daughters. Did I miss something, being homosexuals, I don't think they took them, and why didn't they if they wanted to prior as they lived in that same town.
It doesn't say they went with them, but that The Lord made them blind.
They later wanted children, and did what they did in a incestuous thing to their father, but if they wanted children before, and if that happened, they could of been prego. I don't believe they took his daughters, and please correct me, that message took a wrong turn. Ty.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#2
I believe you are correct.....they were more interested in the angels who had the from and appearance of men......
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,408
3,455
113
#3
Greetings cc members. There was a sermon that Lot's daughters were violently taken and abused..
If I am not mistaken, Sodom/Gomorrah was a very homosexual town, and when the 2 men angels came to lead his family out of it, they wanted the 2 pure looking ones, who were the angels.
Lot offered them his daughters. Did I miss something, being homosexuals, I don't think they took them, and why didn't they if they wanted to prior as they lived in that same town.
It doesn't say they went with them, but that The Lord made them blind.
They later wanted children, and did what they did in a incestuous thing to their father, but if they wanted children before, and if that happened, they could of been prego. I don't believe they took his daughters, and please correct me, that message took a wrong turn. Ty.
Why don't you read the Bible account for yourself???
Why rely on some person sermon???

If you did then you would discover that the daughters where never violently taken and abused..
 
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KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,664
359
83
#4
Why don't you read the Bible account for yourself???
Why rely on some person sermon???

If you did then you would discover that the daughters where never violently taken and abused..
Yes I read it, and it didn't say anything like that sermon. Maybe he didn't read it, oh that's another topic, but, then he is WRONG, and confusion is not of God.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#5
Yes I read it, and it didn't say anything like that sermon. Maybe he didn't read it, oh that's another topic, but, then he is WRONG, and confusion is not of God.
And then you just discovered someone who does sermons that you don't want to listen to anymore. (This is how I weed out good teachers from bad teachers. If someone makes something up to prove his/her point -- bad teacher!) :)
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#6
You are correct sis and as depleted said scrap that sermon. Lot did offer but the story does not say that they took them.
Showing that lot was being affected by his surroundings. Also that women were esteemed low in society .
Sad state of affairs either way. Had lot stayed with uncle Abe his faith would not have compromise attached to it.
Also notice lots hesitation to leave which teaches us that sin can have a numbing effect on moral values and cause us to let our guard down sorta speak.
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#7
Lot offered his two daughters for the men to have sex with them instead of the two angels who were in the form of men,but the men of the city refused,and said bring out those men for we want to have sex with them.

That is how God tested Sodom and Gomorrah to see if there was any righteous there,and if there was God would not overthrow the cities for the sake of the righteous,but not one person cried out,let us not do this wicked deed people,but were all in consent to either participating,or supporting,having sex with the two men.

God seen there was no righteous,and the two men took Lot and his family out of the city,and overthrew the city.God told them do not look back to the cities,and Lot's wife looked back and was turned in to a pillar of salt.

Since Lot did not have a wife anymore,and no children would come from them to increase their family,the two daughters decided to get their father drunk and have sex with him to carry on their family,and increase it.

Lot was a righteous man according to the Bible,and believed in the God of Abraham,but the law was not given back then,so although God did not like it,there was not the severe punishment towards it as when the law was given,and maybe children did not come out deformed,or a mental handicap,as after the law was given.

The daughters were not taken and abused,but the men of the city only wanted the two men to come out to have sex with them.The daughters were also not wicked like the city,for Lot said they had not known a man,but they were married,so it must of meant that they did not have sex with anybody,or did not have sex yet with their husband,which I believe it is the former.

But the husbands did not want to go out with Lot for they did not believe him that God was going to overthrow the cities,so only Lot and his wife,and two daughters,went out of the city.Lot's wife turned in a pillar of salt,and the two daughters did not have their husbands,so the daughters decided to increase their family by their father.

If the two husbands would of come out with Lot,and if they did not look back to be turned in to a pillar of salt,the two daughters would of never had sex with their father,but would of increased the family by their husbands,and also they would of looked at it morally wrong to have sex with their father,or at least cared not to do it,because they had husbands.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
54,912
25,568
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#8
The daughters were not taken and abused, but the men of the city only wanted the two men to come out to have sex with them. The daughters were also not wicked like the city, for Lot said they had not known a man, but they were married,so it must of meant that they did not have sex with anybody, or did not have sex yet with their husband, which I believe it is the former.

But the husbands did not want to go out with Lot for they did not believe him that God was going to overthrow the cities, so only Lot and his wife, and two daughters, went out of the city. Lot's wife turned in a pillar of salt, and the two daughters did not have their husbands, so the daughters decided to increase their family by their father.
Lot's daughters were not yet married but only pledged to be betrothed, which is why they had not yet known a man.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#9
I think the story you might be looking for starts at about Judges 19:23 or 24.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
54,912
25,568
113
#10
I think the story you might be looking for starts at about Judges 19:23 or 24.
It seems only the traveler's concubine was raped and abused all night long, for though the host did also offer up his maiden daughter, there is no mention of her having been so done by. In fact the townsmen originally refused the offer of taking the women for their "pleasure," but the concubine was put outside so they could have their way with her.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#11
It seems only the traveler's concubine was raped and abused all night long, for though the host did also offer up his maiden daughter, there is no mention of her having been so done by. In fact the townsmen originally refused the offer of taking the women for their "pleasure," but the concubine was put outside so they could have their way with her.
Well, if the preacher got as much confused as he seems to have done, it's not likely he would get a few other details right either.

This is not unusual. I am constantly amazed at the unbelievably convoluted stories many people right here on this forum repeat as the pure truth they just read from the Bible.
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#13
Lot's daughters were not yet married but only pledged to be betrothed, which is why they had not yet known a man.
Okay,I did not know that,thanks for clearing that up for me,for it is good to know all the details of God's word.

I was thinking that they had not had sex with anybody outside their husbands,or had not had sex with their husbands yet,but was married.

I was only thinking they were married because of this scripture.

Gen 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

Lot called them sons in law,and the Bible states they were married to his daughters.

Even if they were not married it would still apply that it was only the two daughters,and their father,that were left,so the daughters wanted to carry on the family,and increase their family,by the father.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#14
I was watching a TV programme today on how arcnologists believe they have
found the lost cities of the plains.

It suggested that the great sin which arose up before God, may not have been homosexuality,
as the bible does not actually say what it was. But that due to the incident at Lots
house, it has forever been assumed it was homosexuality.
It suggested that whatever the sin was, maybe it was something along the lines of
the people in the time of Noah.

I have always been a bit confused about the story of Lot. If the city was an outright
den of iniquity, why did Lot and his family stay there in the first place. I thought Lot
was a nomad, so why did he settle in the city, especially after choosing the best of
the pasture land when he and Abraham parted ways. The following verse talks
about pitching a tent.


Genesis 13:12 NKJV
[12] Abram dwelt in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelt in the cities of the plain and pitched
his tent even as far as Sodom.



I wondered as well, Lots wife was turned into a pillar of salt for looking back.
Was that looking back in a "rubber necking" kind of way when you look to see a car crash,
or was it a different type of turning back. It seems a bit harsh to kill someone just for
glancing back.

Also if anyone saw her turn into a pillar of salt would they have had to look back to see
that happen as well!
 
Nov 19, 2016
502
23
0
#15
I was watching a TV programme today on how arcnologists believe they have
found the lost cities of the plains.

It suggested that the great sin which arose up before God, may not have been homosexuality,
as the bible does not actually say what it was. But that due to the incident at Lots
house, it has forever been assumed it was homosexuality.
It suggested that whatever the sin was, maybe it was something along the lines of
the people in the time of Noah.

I have always been a bit confused about the story of Lot. If the city was an outright
den of iniquity, why did Lot and his family stay there in the first place. I thought Lot
was a nomad, so why did he settle in the city, especially after choosing the best of
the pasture land when he and Abraham parted ways. The following verse talks
about pitching a tent.


Genesis 13:12 NKJV
[12] Abram dwelt in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelt in the cities of the plain and pitched
his tent even as far as Sodom.



I wondered as well, Lots wife was turned into a pillar of salt for looking back.
Was that looking back in a "rubber necking" kind of way when you look to see a car crash,
or was it a different type of turning back. It seems a bit harsh to kill someone just for
glancing back.

Also if anyone saw her turn into a pillar of salt would they have had to look back to see
that happen as well!
Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Maybe Lot's wife did not look back to see the destruction of Sodom,but she looked back because she missed that lifestyle that she had there,which she liked,like Jesus said,any person that starts living for God,but looks back missing that lifestyle is not fit for the kingdom of God.

It could be that since Lot's wife looked back,missing the lifestyle that she had there,for she liked it,and did not really want to leave,she was counted as one of the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah,instead as one escaping it,and received punishment as Sodom and Gomorrah,but not as harsh,for she was counted among them,for she liked it there as well as they did.

Isa 3:9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Sodom was so terrible that they would not hide their wickedness,but it was an open display with them,for if they would surround Lot's house and demand the two men be brought out to have sex with them,that is pretty terrible.What were they doing running around the streets naked,and having sex all over the place,without shame of who seen them,and I feel sorry for the animals too.

Eze 16:48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

These were the sins that God did not like about Sodom and Gomorrah,and the way they treated the two men might have more to do than the act of homosexuality,but an act of inhospitality,and lack of concern for other people,and their feelings.

God did not like the sins of Sodom that were more than sexual immorality,but the way they treated the two men that stayed at Lot's house was the act that caused God to overthrow them,which they were sexually immoral,but the way they treated strangers was terrible,which they only were concerned for themselves,and did not care for the feelings of others.

God tested to see if there were any righteous by the two men,how the city would deal with them,and not one righteous was to be found there,but the whole city was in one accord on how they treated the two men,so God overthrew them.
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,664
359
83
#16
I was watching a TV programme today on how arcnologists believe they have
found the lost cities of the plains.

It suggested that the great sin which arose up before God, may not have been homosexuality,
as the bible does not actually say what it was. But that due to the incident at Lots
house, it has forever been assumed it was homosexuality.
It suggested that whatever the sin was, maybe it was something along the lines of
the people in the time of Noah.

I have always been a bit confused about the story of Lot. If the city was an outright
den of iniquity, why did Lot and his family stay there in the first place. I thought Lot
was a nomad, so why did he settle in the city, especially after choosing the best of
the pasture land when he and Abraham parted ways. The following verse talks
about pitching a tent.


Genesis 13:12 NKJV
[12] Abram dwelt in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelt in the cities of the plain and pitched
his tent even as far as Sodom.



I wondered as well, Lots wife was turned into a pillar of salt for looking back.
Was that looking back in a "rubber necking" kind of way when you look to see a car crash,
or was it a different type of turning back. It seems a bit harsh to kill someone just for
glancing back.

Also if anyone saw her turn into a pillar of salt would they have had to look back to see
that happen as well!
Hi Miri Maybe someone could answer most of this but I know that the city it says was very wicked. God has the All say and Authority to do what so ever, as to save the rightous and destroy those who do wickedness. It was so in the day of Noah, in the desert leading into their promise land, and I don't think the Lord God wants evil to reign on his earth that he created. But with easier to understand bible translations and commentaries to go with it,, Strongs for one, It said that she held things close and dear in her heart, to look back at that city when parting with it. As for those who looked back or not, their hearts could of been in the right standing, but we do not know as eye witness's what really happened. I know there was fire and sulfer, as I got a Israel News paper from an archive once, way back, from a Jewish Store, and it showd the actual pictures of that city, where it was all burned to the ground, in ashes. The fact that tents were the things they carried, shows that the people had no real belongings, and the Lord told someone once, I think it was Lot, not to make roots in a town, because he was going to leave it. Many things could ponder in people's hearts from the past, Rachel lived and hide Idols and died because God said, he would destroy Idol worshippers, they were found only after she died. Were to love God with all our hearts, soul, and mind. Any thing else is a space for invasion to become a stronghold.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,408
3,455
113
#17
Yes I read it, and it didn't say anything like that sermon. Maybe he didn't read it, oh that's another topic, but, then he is WRONG, and confusion is not of God.
Well then Yes he is WRONG.. He has changed the scriptures by bring forth a false account of the Scriptures.. That's a serious transgression against the Word of God.. Altering the Word of God is a No no.. You keep on double checking any kind of sermon like that to make sure the preacher is being true to the Word of God..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,408
3,455
113
#18
It seems only the traveler's concubine was raped and abused all night long, for though the host did also offer up his maiden daughter, there is no mention of her having been so done by. In fact the townsmen originally refused the offer of taking the women for their "pleasure," but the concubine was put outside so they could have their way with her.
Yes that happened. The owner of the house offered His daughter and the concubine.. But he gave them the concubine and she died that night. The man took the body of His concubine home and cut it up.. The outcome of this was the tribes of Israel where gathered together and went to the town and demanded that the men be brought out.. But the people in the town where of the tribe of Benjamin and so the who tribe of Benjamin defended the town..

So a war was started against the tribe of Benjamin by the other 11 tribes.. And in the end the town was burn't to the ground and the tribe of Benjamin lost most of it's population.. This is why the tribe of Benjamin became the smallest of the trible of Israel..

The war on Benjamin was ordered by the LORD..
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
76
#19
My guess is that the Men were bi-sexual although they didn't abuse Lots Daughters he may have known they were or he wouldn't have offered up his Daughters to them. In any case I expect all sorts of perversion happened there as well as Homosexuality.
 
R

ROSSELLA

Guest
#20
Well, I think the story went beyond homosexuality. Throughout history, even warriors who would otherwise never have sex with a man have used rape as a weapon to humiliate and dominate other men. In Genesis 19, the men seem to hate foreigners and they are only barely tolerating Lot and his family. They do not rape Lot's daughters.

It's always possible that Lot abused his daughters or they were abused by someone else. He certainly isn't going to win the award for Best Father of the BC era and we have to wonder about them living in a town surrounded by such terrible people. But the Bible doesn't say that so we can't be sure. It's very clear that, at least in the case of them getting pregnant, the raped Lot (Genesis 19:31-35, "[SUP]31 [/SUP]One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”[SUP]33 [/SUP]That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” [SUP]35 [/SUP]So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. [SUP] 36[/SUP]So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father."