What is a fiction sermon, or is the gospel correct. Please define Lot's story

[Bladerunner]

Yes I read it, and it didn't say anything like that sermon. Maybe he didn't read it, oh that's another topic, but, then he is WRONG, and confusion is not of God.

KALYNA18....there is a difference in preaching a sermon and teaching someone the scripture.

The sermon has to have truth yet have enough substance as to keep the flock's attention. Also, it has to leave an lasting impression on the flock about the message the story is sending to each of them. It is evident, the above left a lasting impression on you.

Teaching is simple...The speaker picks a subject and if you are interested, you listen to him. If Not you don't.

If you do Listen, the Speaker will take you through subject giving you his/her opinion and if (and I say IF) they have studied their Bible, they will direct you to Acts 17:11 KJV

Acts 17:11 KJV
"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

 

[KALYNA18]

Yes that happened. The owner of the house offered His daughter and the concubine.. But he gave them the concubine and she died that night. The man took the body of His concubine home and cut it up.. The outcome of this was the tribes of Israel where gathered together and went to the town and demanded that the men be brought out.. But the people in the town where of the tribe of Benjamin and so the who tribe of Benjamin defended the town..

So a war was started against the tribe of Benjamin by the other 11 tribes.. And in the end the town was burn't to the ground and the tribe of Benjamin lost most of it's population.. This is why the tribe of Benjamin became the smallest of the trible of Israel..

The war on Benjamin was ordered by the LORD..

where were the police? It seems back then, things were taken into their own matters, as why weren't the Pharisees arrested when they stoned Steven to death with the rocks. Same thing again, with Elijah, after Jezebel kept her wickedness up, he Elijah finally had her thrown out the window, Some body post who was this concubine, who did she belong to Lot? The owner of this house, was it Lot? and why did he do that, was he a cannibal? Someone said not to read the bible because it's to explicit, but sin is exposed, bare and naked before God, and people are the same, then and today, but who was that concubine. TY.

 

[KALYNA18]

Well, I think the story went beyond homosexuality. Throughout history, even warriors who would otherwise never have sex with a man have used rape as a weapon to humiliate and dominate other men. In Genesis 19, the men seem to hate foreigners and they are only barely tolerating Lot and his family. They do not rape Lot's daughters.

It's always possible that Lot abused his daughters or they were abused by someone else. He certainly isn't going to win the award for Best Father of the BC era and we have to wonder about them living in a town surrounded by such terrible people. But the Bible doesn't say that so we can't be sure. It's very clear that, at least in the case of them getting pregnant, the raped Lot (Genesis 19:31-35, "[SUP]31 [/SUP]One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”[SUP]33 [/SUP]That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” [SUP]35 [/SUP]So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. [SUP] 36[/SUP]So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father."

Things after the fall were a mess. Thank you LOrd, Adoni for giving us Jesus, who redemmed us from the curse. Old Testament lessons, but at times not good examples. Jesus the New High Priest, instead of Melchezideck, who offered a sacrifice for us all to enter bodly to the throne room of God, only King Melchezideck, was allowed to enter once a year for an intercessor for Israel, but now we are able just as we are. Ty FAther for your son, the savior of this world from all that confusion, and fleshly works as to now we are crucified with Christ.

 

[Adstar]

where were the police? .

There where no police in those days in Israel.. No King.. No government.. Only a person called a Judge.. When something like this happened people would go to the ark of the covenant and esquire of the LORD what to do.. They did this in this case and where told what to do.. The 11 tribes gathered an army and did what was ordered of them.. This happening was a very rare event. This case was so bad that it got written down and recorded in the Torah..

It seems back then, things were taken into their own matters, as why weren't the Pharisees arrested when they stoned Steven to death with the rocks.

Well the Pharisees where like judges and the romans liked to let the Pharisees take care of religious law matters and steven was deemed a heretic by the Pharisees and so they stoned him to death sadly..

Same thing again, with Elijah, after Jezebel kept her wickedness up, he Elijah finally had her thrown out the window, .

Jeru killed Jezebel. Elijah was simply following the orders of God when he sent a messenger to Jeru to anoint His head with oil to make Him the New King of Israel and to tell him to Kill Ahab the deposed King and Jezebel..

Some body post who was this concubine, who did she belong to Lot? The owner of this house, was it Lot? and why did he do that, was he a cannibal? Someone said not to read the bible because it's to explicit, but sin is exposed, bare and naked before God, and people are the same, then and today, but who was that concubine. TY.

The concubine account was not about Lot but a totally different story from a different time in Israels History.. Probably 1000 years later.. The Bible is a wort's and all account of many happenings in the past and some of it is brutal.. There is no sugar coating in the Bible. I read the Bible from start to finish and i do not regret it at all.. It's a book that changes ones Point of view in life..

 

[KALYNA18]

There where no police in those days in Israel.. No King.. No government.. Only a person called a Judge.. When something like this happened people would go to the ark of the covenant and esquire of the LORD what to do.. They did this in this case and where told what to do.. The 11 tribes gathered an army and did what was ordered of them.. This happening was a very rare event. This case was so bad that it got written down and recorded in the Torah..



Well the Pharisees where like judges and the romans liked to let the Pharisees take care of religious law matters and steven was deemed a heretic by the Pharisees and so they stoned him to death sadly..




Jeru killed Jezebel. Elijah was simply following the orders of God when he sent a messenger to Jeru to anoint His head with oil to make Him the New King of Israel and to tell him to Kill Ahab the deposed King and Jezebel..




The concubine account was not about Lot but a totally different story from a different time in Israels History.. Probably 1000 years later.. The Bible is a wort's and all account of many happenings in the past and some of it is brutal.. There is no sugar coating in the Bible. I read the Bible from start to finish and i do not regret it at all.. It's a book that changes ones Point of view in life..

Thank you for these answers. Although everything everytime is not taught, but dig in and get it yourself. I kind of fiquered these two stories didn't meet together.Hate then, without Police, and same 2017. I know God Adoni is sovereign, and everything that happened, was recorded, and is lessons to us. I don't know Hebrew, Arabic, to dissect the Torah, but boy o boy, when they start with the deep meanings, they explain every word as a reason why it was spoken, we don't forget to pray for Israel, and of course God is Love, so we are of him, and remain in him through our Jesus. Ty.

 

[KALYNA18]

​[FONT=&quot]The Concubine and the Tribe of Benjamin[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]

[SIZE=+1]By Avi Lazerson[/SIZE][/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]One of the most amazing stories that is to be found in the entire Book of the Judges is found at the end of the book even though in chronological order it happen in the earlier stages of the conquest of the Land of Israel. It begins at chapter 19 and finishes the Book of Judges in chapter 21. What I am referring to is the horrible story of the concubine and the tribe of Benjamin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There are many questions in this story, but let us focus only on the question (and it is the main question) of why the tribe of Benjamin was almost entirely wiped out – and not by a foreign enemy – but by the other eleven tribes. What was it that the tribe of Benjamin did (or did not do) that should have created an internal war that bordered on genocide?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Before we can answer this question we need some background information in order to properly analyze the main issue.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The story starts out about a man who lived in the region of Ephraim. He had a concubine who for a certain reason went back to her home in Beit Lechem, in the area of the tribe of Yehuda. In Jewish life, a concubine is (or in reality was) a woman who is not a full wife as will be explained. In those days men could marry or take a concubine; a wife was a woman who not only was consecrated to him by marriage but also had a ketuba (a marriage contract granting her certain rights to her husband's property and protection in case of divorce). A concubine was consecrated to the man, meaning that she was his wife in all manners, but did not have a ketuba.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When this man's concubine left him to return to her father's house, the man, together with his aide or valet went to urge her to return to him. He stayed several days by the father-in-law and left taking his concubine with him to return to his home in the mountains of Ephraim. As they came by Jerusalem, the sun began to set and since Jerusalem was at that time a Jebusite city and not a Jewish city, the man decided to seek lodging in a nearby Jewish town. They pushed on to the city of Gevah which was in the district belonging to the tribe of Benjamin. Unfortunately they waited in the town square for some one to offer lodgings but no one seemed interested in the strangers until finally an elderly man who was returning from his work in the fields came across them. He offered to take them to his house for a meal and lodging and they accepted with gratitude.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As they were sitting down to eat their evening meal, the house was surrounded by a group of hoodlums and thugs who demanded that the elderly man give up his guest to them that they could use him to fulfill their homosexual fantasies. The elderly man tried to appease them by offering them his daughter but is was to no avail. They finally took the concubine and pushed her outside of the door so that this gang of hoodlums could appease their perverted sexual appetites with her.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The group of thugs then took this poor woman and repeatedly raped her until she was so weakened by the horrid experience that when they let her loose at the end of the night she could just barely crawl back to the elderly man's house where she was found the next morning dead. The husband being so infuriated and shocked with the treatment that he received by the inhabitants of the city that he took a knife and cut his concubine's body into twelve pieces which he send around the Land of Israel to the twelve tribes to tell them the horrendous story in explicit detail of exactly what happened to him in Givah.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When the other tribes received the body part and heard the story of the gang rape that caused the woman's death and that the gang really demanded the male, they were incensed and they called a meeting nearby to the tribe of Benjamin to demand justice for such an outrage. Some four hundred thousand armed men assembled together willing to wage war that the perpetrators be brought to justice and they sent a message to the tribe of Benjamin demanding that the perpetrators of such a crime be properly punished, meaning put to death. When the tribe of Benjamin heard that almost all of Israel had assembled at their borders, they showed that they were not interested in fulfilling the demands of the other tribes. Instead, all of the tribe of Benjamin came together and assembled in the town of Gevah in order to wage war against the rest of the tribes. Twenty-six thousand men of Benjamin pitted themselves against four hundred thousand Jews from the other tribes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the first day of battle, Benjamin slew twelve thousand Jews from the other eleven tribes with no noticeable damage inflicted on the tribe of Benjamin. The eleven tribes were shocked at their rout and defeat but decided to enter into battle another time. This time Benjamin killed eighteen thousand from the other tribes. Licking their wounds, they went again to ask if they should give up or continue. Pinchas, the son of Elazar, the son of Aaron, was the high priest at that time. He told them that they should press on and that this time they would be successful.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This time as they approached the tribe of Benjamin to do battle, Benjamin being over confident after the two successes, came out to battle as before. As they chased after the other tribes, part of the large Jewish contingent slipped behind them into the city of Gevah and began to destroy it. Another group came from behind and began to surround the army of Benjamin. As Benjamin began to fight with the other tribes, they suddenly realized that their fortified city was being burnt down and destroyed. They were surrounded and suddenly the tide of battle changed. That day, eighteen thousand of the tribe of Benjamin were killed. The remnants of Benjamin scattered since their city was destroyed and they had no place of refuge. The other tribes chased them and smote them left and right. Only six hundred of the original twenty-six thousand men from the tribe of Benjamin managed to escape.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Then the tribes turned their wrath on the remaining cities of Benjamin. They killed all the remaining inhabitants, women, children and animals. Then they totally destroyed all of their cities razing them to the ground. Still full of anger and fury over the behavior of the tribe of Benjamin they all took an oath that no man should give from his daughters to those few remaining men of Benjamin. Finally their anger was assuaged.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Later they began to feel sad that they had caused one of the tribes of Israel to become non-existent. A pang of sadness came into their hearts and they fell remorseful that a tribe be lost. So they inquired as to any city that did not send men to join in the military expedition against Benjamin and they found one city called Yovesh Gilad that did not participate with them. They sent a military force to them with orders that all residents of that town be killed with the exception of the virgins. (How they knew who was a virgin is a lively topic of discussion which we shall skip.) After killing all the inhabitants of Yovesh Gilad, they had four hundred virgins and they sent these girls to the remaining six hundred men from Benjamin to be their wives. Still it was not enough girls for the remaining men from the tribe of Benjamin so they told them that when the Jews bring up to Shiloh sacrifices (Shiloh was the location where the Ark of G-d resided at that time) and the girls who came would go down in the vineyards to dance that they could take these girls as wives. By doing this they would not be voiding their oath because they were not 'giving' these girls to them, rather the girls knew that if they went there that they may be taken as wives. In this manner the story of the concubine and the tribe of Benjamin ended together with the Book of Judges.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now that we have briefly gone over the highlights of the story of the concubine and the war with Benjamin let us go back to our basic question: Why was it so imperative that a massive war be fought? A war that left over fifty thousand dead and almost erased a tribe of Israel.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It does not require much research or analyzation to understand that the main problem was the demented inhabitants of Gevah who lusted to have perverted homosexual relations with a stranger who happened by chance into their city. So great was their lust that murder and homosexuality meant nothing to them. (Remember that a similar event happened in Sodom and Gemorrah in the time of Abraham.) What the tribes wanted from Benjamin was not a war, but justice for the poor woman who was so wicked used by these demented perverts that she died from the deviated sexual abuse. They wanted a change in the social climate that tolerated and allowed these perverts to be allowed to propagate and form a large group. But far from acquiescing and realizing that perversion and homosexuality was a serious crime, the tribe of Benjamin showed no desire to bring them to justice, rather they were willing to fight to protect these despicable perverts. A homosexual is called by G-d an abomination; the other tribes were G-d fearing and knew that allowing this behavior to continue would bring destruction on their holy land therefore it was necessary to eradicate not only this disease but also the social environment that enabled it to come into being before it ruined the land of Israel also.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Today this form of thought is totally and absolutely politically incorrect, but then, much of our Torah has fallen from respect into a thing of disrespect. History, however, has shown that all countries that have encouraged homosexuality have lost their greatness and fallen to their enemies. Will anyone take the lesson from the book of Judges?[/FONT]
* * * * *[FONT=&quot]For more articles on Ethical Jewish Thought, see our Ethics Archives[/FONT]

 

[KALYNA18]

The purpose of this thread, was correct info. about Lot's story, but thank the Lord, someone brought this into the picture, as this is a similar story, almost like Lot's. There are various readings about the concubine, and that although this was in the book of Judges, there was no King at the time to rule, and people kind of did what ever they wanted. A briefing on who these tribes were, is that they were the 12 Son's of Jacob. The abuse against the concubine, which is as a wife, but with no legal assets,or legal ownership as a real life.
The tribe of Benjamin, the men there did this, and the other 11 tribes were fighting against their own. If not mistaken, all this and yet God makes heaven with the 12 tribes, named. Go figure.

Another lesson from this story, is that though the other tribes panned in one accord to get even with the tribe of Benjamin, in several battles they were losers, and lost men. PRESERVER, then, the last battle they won, and the tribe of Benjamin, was nearly wiped away, left with only 600 men, from 28 thousand.
Then they felt sorry for the remaining men, and got women to stay with them.

Just as with life today, persevere, meaning, don't give up, life is a battle, to some just getting up in the morning is, and to others, not going to sleep not fiquering which is worse the days, nightmares, or nights. Kalyna18

 

[KALYNA18]

The purpose of this thread, was correct info. about Lot's story, but thank the Lord, someone brought this into the picture, as this is a similar story, almost like Lot's. There are various readings about the concubine, and that although this was in the book of Judges, there was no King at the time to rule, and people kind of did what ever they wanted. A briefing on who these tribes were, is that they were the 12 Son's of Jacob. The abuse against the concubine, which is as a wife, but with no legal assets,or legal ownership as a real life.
The tribe of Benjamin, the men there did this, and the other 11 tribes were fighting against their own. If not mistaken, all this and yet God makes heaven with the 12 tribes, named. Go figure.

Another lesson from this story, is that though the other tribes panned in one accord to get even with the tribe of Benjamin, in several battles they were losers, and lost men. PRESERVER, then, the last battle they won, and the tribe of Benjamin, was nearly wiped away, left with only 600 men, from 28 thousand.
Then they felt sorry for the remaining men, and got women to stay with them.

Just as with life today, persevere, meaning, don't give up, life is a battle, to some just getting up in the morning is, and to others, not going to sleep not fiquering which is worse the days, nightmares, or nights. Kalyna18

IT says more than 50 thousand were destroyed, JUdge for yourselves.