Have you believed the false grace message?

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W

wsblind

Guest
Same group of people running around with stones in hand dismissing truth. Yall seem very confident we as Christians are not suppose to tell each other when one is falling into sin. And I have done neither but Paul says in

2 Timothy 4New International Version (NIV)4 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.
Ok. You have given us permission.

You are neck deep in Evil. And there are a lot of us trying to show/tell you this.

Your a wolf in sheep's clothing and are counting on your own righteousness, and condemning others by your own subjective righteousness.

And I am not saying your not saved. You are just wholly deceived.

I wouldn't doubt for a second that if we did have to compare each others morality for salvation......any grace believer would beat you. By a long ways.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
516
44
28
Not a scholar just student. However thank you for the complement. Shalom
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
You don't believe anything can snatch us from the hand of God. But we can snatch ourselves from the hand of God?

I agree with you that we can't sit around and judge who is saved and who is not. But eternal security is set on the premise that NOTHING can snatch us from the hand of God at the moment of salvation.. Not even myself. Nothing can.

And Romans 8 37-39 verifies it for us. We are created beings, and nothing created can separate us from the love us Christ.

And to put a stamp on that, Paul even said nothing in the future will separate us from the love of Christ. We overwhelmingly conquer in Christ..
This is just a few of the scriptures that in all respect please enlighten me what each one means in yalls minds. I have researched them but I am giving yall a chance to convince me. After all I do not care if I am wrong. I only want to know the truth. I did this a few weeks ago and really tried to understand the opposing view who believe OSAS. If you comment is not patient or loving I will only ignore you.

Hebrews 6:4-8New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Hebrews 12:14-17New International Version (NIV)[h=3]Warning and Encouragement[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. [SUP]15 [/SUP]See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. [SUP]16 [/SUP]See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.

[SUP]
[/SUP]

Hebrews 10:24-31New International Version (NIV)[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, [SUP]25 [/SUP]not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[SUP][a][/SUP] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But...

2 Corinthians 7:10New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.



Matthew 5:13New International Version (NIV)[h=3]Salt and Light[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.


Matthew 6New International Version (NIV)[h=3]Giving to the Needy[/h]6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

[h=3]The Narrow and Wide Gates[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
[h=3]True and False Prophets[/h][SUP]15 [/SUP]“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 8:18-22New International Version (NIV)[h=3]The Cost of Following Jesus[/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

Matthew 10:22New International Version (NIV)[SUP]22 [/SUP]You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:37-39New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. [SUP]38 [/SUP]Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
Luke 9:23Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[h=3]Take Up Your Cross[/h][SUP]23 [/SUP]Then He said to them all, “If anyone wants to come with[SUP][a][/SUP] Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily,[SUP][b][/SUP] and follow Me.





Matthew 12:48-50New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” [SUP]49 [/SUP]Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. [SUP]50 [/SUP]For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”


Matthew 13Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Yet he has no root in himself, but is short-lived. When pressure or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he stumbles. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Now the one sown among the thorns—this is one who hears the word, but the worries of this age and the seduction[SUP][d][/SUP] of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the one sown on the good ground—this is one who hears and understands the word, who does bear fruit and yields: some 100, some 60, some 30 times what was sown.”

Matthew 7:17-20Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.

Galatians 5:16-26Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[h=3]The Spirit versus the Flesh[/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don’t do what you want. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are obvious:[SUP][a][/SUP][SUP][b][/SUP] sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy,[SUP][c][/SUP] drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.


[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]
Galatians 5:4-6Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision accomplishes anything; what matters is faith working through love.

James 2:22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected.

James 2:26Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.




Matthew 22:14Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]14 [/SUP]“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Jesus was speaking to the disciples privately.

[SUP]48 [/SUP]But if that wicked slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delayed,’ [SUP]49 [/SUP]and starts to beat his fellow slaves, and eats and drinks with drunkards, [SUP]50 [/SUP]that slave’s master will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not know. [SUP]51 [/SUP]He will cut him to pieces[SUP][u][/SUP] and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 26:41Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]41 [/SUP]Stay awake and pray, so that you won’t enter into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Matthew 12:32Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]32 [/SUP]Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the one to come.

 
W

wsblind

Guest
This is just a few of the scriptures that in all respect please enlighten me what each one means in yalls minds. I have researched them but I am giving yall a chance to convince me. After all I do not care if I am wrong. I only want to know the truth. I did this a few weeks ago and really tried to understand the opposing view who believe OSAS. If you comment is not patient or loving I will only ignore you.

Hebrews 6:4-8New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Hebrews 12:14-17New International Version (NIV)Warning and Encouragement

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. [SUP]15 [/SUP]See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. [SUP]16 [/SUP]See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.

[SUP]
[/SUP]

Hebrews 10:24-31New International Version (NIV)[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, [SUP]25 [/SUP]not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
[SUP]26[/SUP]If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[SUP][a][/SUP] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But...

2 Corinthians 7:10New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.



Matthew 5:13New International Version (NIV)Salt and Light

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.


Matthew 6New International Version (NIV)Giving to the Needy

6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

The Narrow and Wide Gates

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
True and False Prophets

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.[SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20[/SUP]Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 8:18-22New International Version (NIV)The Cost of Following Jesus

[SUP]18 [/SUP]When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

Matthew 10:22New International Version (NIV)[SUP]22 [/SUP]You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:37-39New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. [SUP]38 [/SUP]Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
Luke 9:23Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Take Up Your Cross

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then He said to them all, “If anyone wants to come with[SUP][a][/SUP] Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily,[SUP][b][/SUP] and follow Me.





Matthew 12:48-50New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” [SUP]49 [/SUP]Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. [SUP]50 [/SUP]For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”


Matthew 13Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Yet he has no root in himself, but is short-lived. When pressure or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he stumbles. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Now the one sown among the thorns—this is one who hears the word, but the worries of this age and the seduction[SUP][d][/SUP] of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the one sown on the good ground—this is one who hears and understands the word, who does bear fruit and yields: some 100, some 60, some 30 times what was sown.”

Matthew 7:17-20Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19[/SUP]Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.

Galatians 5:16-26Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
The Spirit versus the Flesh

[SUP]16 [/SUP]I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don’t do what you want. [SUP]18[/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are obvious:[SUP][a][/SUP][SUP][b][/SUP] sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy,[SUP][c][/SUP] drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25[/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.


Galatians 5:4-6Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]4[/SUP]You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace. [SUP]5[/SUP]For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision accomplishes anything; what matters is faith working through love.

James 2:22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected.

James 2:26Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.




Matthew 22:14Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]14 [/SUP]“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Jesus was speaking to the disciples privately.

[SUP]48 [/SUP]But if that wicked slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delayed,’ [SUP]49 [/SUP]and starts to beat his fellow slaves, and eats and drinks with drunkards, [SUP]50 [/SUP]that slave’s master will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not know. [SUP]51 [/SUP]He will cut him to pieces[SUP][u][/SUP] and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 26:41Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]41 [/SUP]Stay awake and pray, so that you won’t enter into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Matthew 12:32Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]32 [/SUP]Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the one to come.

One at a time?

Post one and we can cover it.

Hebrews 6:4-8~~

Eternal security verses,simple as that.

And those who believe loss of salvation fit right into these verses.

Every time they preach, loss of salvation and we have to DO something to keep it.....they are crucifying Christ again and putting Him to public shame. He died ONCE for our ONE time salvation.

They think they are in the light, and when one thinks they are in the light their darkness is GREAT. It is impossible to bring them back to repentance(fellowship) if they remain in this state.

They are CLOSE to being cursed. Close, but not cursed because they are saved and have eternal security the moment they believed.

And they will be saved as if through fire. Because they were not refined in time. They spent a life time working(thorns and thistles) for the salvation that the Lord SECURED the moment they believed.


What one you want to do next?

And note. These were very moral,upright Jews who lived a life so clean we would bow to them. But they reverted back to working for that which Christ SECURED.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

wsblind

Guest
Yes, beyond the shadow of a doubt, I believe God gives us the same freedom of choice to reject Him as He gave us to choose Him.
And I agree Willie. But if I reject Him after I am saved....I was bought with HIS price. I am not my own. He is going to save me.

I will just be a naked child in the Kingdom, Rather than a child who Glorified Christ and has all the inheritance he promised to those who endure.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,945
8,663
113
This is just a few of the scriptures that in all respect please enlighten me what each one means in yalls minds. I have researched them but I am giving yall a chance to convince me. After all I do not care if I am wrong. I only want to know the truth. I did this a few weeks ago and really tried to understand the opposing view who believe OSAS. If you comment is not patient or loving I will only ignore you.

Hebrews 6:4-8New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Hebrews 12:14-17New International Version (NIV)Warning and Encouragement

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. [SUP]15 [/SUP]See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. [SUP]16 [/SUP]See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.

[SUP]
[/SUP]

Hebrews 10:24-31New International Version (NIV)[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, [SUP]25 [/SUP]not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
[SUP]26[/SUP]If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[SUP][a][/SUP] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But...

2 Corinthians 7:10New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.



Matthew 5:13New International Version (NIV)Salt and Light

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.


Matthew 6New International Version (NIV)Giving to the Needy

6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

The Narrow and Wide Gates

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
True and False Prophets

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.[SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20[/SUP]Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 8:18-22New International Version (NIV)The Cost of Following Jesus

[SUP]18 [/SUP]When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

Matthew 10:22New International Version (NIV)[SUP]22 [/SUP]You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:37-39New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. [SUP]38 [/SUP]Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
Luke 9:23Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Take Up Your Cross

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then He said to them all, “If anyone wants to come with[SUP][a][/SUP] Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily,[SUP][b][/SUP] and follow Me.





Matthew 12:48-50New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” [SUP]49 [/SUP]Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. [SUP]50 [/SUP]For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”


Matthew 13Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Yet he has no root in himself, but is short-lived. When pressure or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he stumbles. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Now the one sown among the thorns—this is one who hears the word, but the worries of this age and the seduction[SUP][d][/SUP] of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the one sown on the good ground—this is one who hears and understands the word, who does bear fruit and yields: some 100, some 60, some 30 times what was sown.”

Matthew 7:17-20Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. [SUP]19[/SUP]Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.

Galatians 5:16-26Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
The Spirit versus the Flesh

[SUP]16 [/SUP]I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don’t do what you want. [SUP]18[/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are obvious:[SUP][a][/SUP][SUP][b][/SUP] sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy,[SUP][c][/SUP] drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25[/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.


[SUB][/SUB]Galatians 5:4-6Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]4[/SUP]You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace. [SUP]5[/SUP]For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision accomplishes anything; what matters is faith working through love.

James 2:22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected.

James 2:26Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.




Matthew 22:14Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]14 [/SUP]“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Jesus was speaking to the disciples privately.

[SUP]48 [/SUP]But if that wicked slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delayed,’ [SUP]49 [/SUP]and starts to beat his fellow slaves, and eats and drinks with drunkards, [SUP]50 [/SUP]that slave’s master will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not know. [SUP]51 [/SUP]He will cut him to pieces[SUP][u][/SUP] and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 26:41Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]41 [/SUP]Stay awake and pray, so that you won’t enter into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Matthew 12:32Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]32 [/SUP]Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the one to come.

Peace to you brother. You seek the Truth and it seems to me at least willing to hear a differing view on those verses. I too had a misunderstood view of them, and the incredible Grace God bestowed on me. I'm not going to try and tackle all of them you posted now, but will hopefully give you a perspective to think and pray about Hebrews 6.

This passage, as well as Hebrews 10, at one time immobilized me with fear. I did a straight reading of them, out of context and revelation, and came to similar conclusions as you. Please do not take anything I say as established fact or doctrine. Just pray on it and be a good Berean.

Hebrews 6. [FONT=&quot]6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, [/FONT]2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will[a] do if God permits.[FONT=&quot]4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,[b] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Ok. In verse 1 the writer is talking about our Foundation.
Well, JESUS is our Foundation. WE may build on that Foundation with our own works over and over again. And God will tear down what WE built on THE FOUNDATION over and over again. BUT the Foundation remains in place. And the hope is tht the Holy Spirit will mold us to build a house of HIS works that HE prepared since the FOUNDATION of the world.
So the question is whether someone has accepted JESUS as THEIR Foundation. The ROCK. OR have they built their house, by their own works, on a foundation of sand, and NOT on Jesus.

So some have been ENLIGHTENED, and have been partakers of the Holy Spirit and who have TASTED the Word of God, and the powers of the age to come.

BUT.... tasting, and swallowing, are 2 DIFFERENT things. These people, similar to Judas, were around those who genuinely WERE filled with the Holy Spirit, and saw the Power of Christ. They were partakers in a sense. Did Judas ever call Jesus Lord? Didn't he usually refer to Him as Rabbi (teacher)? He never believed Jesus was God in the Flesh.

I've used this analogy before. If you've ever been on a wine tasting tour, you know that you don't swallow the wine. You smell it.You swirl it around your mouth. You TASTE it. THEN you spit it out!

You never get the "effect"of the wine, intoxication, UNLESS you swallow it. It is the same with the Holy Spirit. Those people heard the Word. Were around those who DID have the Holy Spirit. Saw miraculous power, yet never truly believed and accepted Jesus.

So how are those people, who rejected the Foundation as the ONLY answer to Salvation going to then repent (change their minds about WHO Jesus is, God in the Flesh, and what He has done, raised from the dead) ? They can't. But the Foundation will NEVER leave nor forsake those that have accepted Him.

May the Lord give you revelation and peace!
[/FONT]
 
Feb 7, 2015
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And I agree Willie. But if I reject Him after I am saved....I was bought with HIS price. I am not my own. He is going to save me.

I will just be a naked child in the Kingdom, Rather than a child who Glorified Christ and has all the inheritance he promised to those who endure.
Yeah, I suppose that is a possibility, too.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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If your righteousness doesn't surpass the rabbis you will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Also if you do not live by God's faith you can't live by his faith's grace.
Do you honestly think that you can, through your own efforts, live more righteously than the old Rabbis did? Really?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
Thank you both for being kind and I will study what you have said.

This is what I see from my studies just to fill you in on my belief.

Hebrews 6:4-8New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

We also must remember who Hebrews was written to and that was Jewish Christians. The question is for those who had fallen away, where they Christians or not? Where they saved when they first believed? And fell into deliberate sin. Keeping in mind sin and deliberate sin is different. In the OT deliberate sin was punishable by death but unacknowledged sin could be paid for once a year on the day of atonement.

for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]

Hebrews also speaks on what deliberate sin does. Because deliberate sin is a willing act of rebellion Hebrews says its like spitting at what Jesus did on the cross.

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace

and in continuance of deliberate sin can lead to falling away but like Willie has said we do not know mans heart only God will know if this person has fallen away forever.

Because even if in deliberate sin Jesus is always ready to forgive. And for those who are more mature in our faith we will feel the godly sorrow vs the worldly sorrow and want to repent because we have grown closer to God and living on the whole food of the Word of God.


Hebrews warns of once a person has fallen away completely and chooses the world over the good news of life, he is no longer following the spirit [SUP]25[/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the SpiritAnd the only way to not be under the law of sin is to follow and be led by the spirit [SUP]18[/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are obvious:[SUP][a][/SUP][SUP][b][/SUP] sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy,[SUP][c][/SUP] drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar
If these arise in us he is saying this is not of the spirit.

2 Corinthians 7:10New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

[SUB][SUP]

[/SUP][/SUB]
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
Wow, this guy lets a novel shake his theology, no wonder. He believe that hell, the lake of fire already exists and that demons or the devils runs the place, when the Bible says that it was created to punish the devil and his angels. Beside John Bevere is a prosperity preacher, which is a no gospel at all.

I heard a saying by Dr Morey "If it's new it's not true and if it's true it's not new" Grace don't keep you saved, grace causes you to be saved through faith. "by grace you have been saved through faith." Grace first then faith.
 
W

wsblind

Guest
Thank you both for being kind and I will study what you have said.

This is what I see from my studies just to fill you in on my belief.

Hebrews 6:4-8New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

We also must remember who Hebrews was written to and that was Jewish Christians. The question is for those who had fallen away, where they Christians or not? Where they saved when they first believed? And fell into deliberate sin. Keeping in mind sin and deliberate sin is different. In the OT deliberate sin was punishable by death but unacknowledged sin could be paid for once a year on the day of atonement.

for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away[SUB][/SUB]
Hebrews also speaks on what deliberate sin does. Because deliberate sin is a willing act of rebellion Hebrews says its like spitting at what Jesus did on the cross.

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. [SUP]28[/SUP]Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace

and in continuance of deliberate sin can lead to falling away but like Willie has said we do not know mans heart only God will know if this person has fallen away forever.

Because even if in deliberate sin Jesus is always ready to forgive. And for those who are more mature in our faith we will feel the godly sorrow vs the worldly sorrow and want to repent because we have grown closer to God and living on the whole food of the Word of God.


Hebrews warns of once a person has fallen away completely and chooses the world over the good news of life, he is no longer following the spirit [SUP]25[/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the SpiritAnd the only way to not be under the law of sin is to follow and be led by the spirit [SUP]18[/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are obvious:[SUP][a][/SUP][SUP][b][/SUP] sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy,[SUP][c][/SUP] drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar
If these arise in us he is saying this is not of the spirit.

2 Corinthians 7:10New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

[SUB][/SUB]
I think my post can be looked at a little closer if I bring some thing to the forefront.

The land and its works are close to being cursed. Because the believer can't be cursed.

It not about the farmer(believer) being cursed. It is about the land and the produce from that land that the farmer(believer) works.

Are we going to work on the foundation of Christ or the foundation of our own works after we are saved?

If we don't build on the foundation of Christ, our land and works are close to being cursed and burned up.

New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


 
D

Depleted

Guest
Yes, beyond the shadow of a doubt, I believe God gives us the same freedom of choice to reject Him as He gave us to choose Him.
I do too. The same "freedom" Jonah had. "Be willing to go where I send you or enjoy gastric acid from inside a fish stomach until you are."

I've tried to walk three times. Couldn't.

Then again, we didn't choose him in the first place, so not much on personal choice with God.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
Peace to you brother. You seek the Truth and it seems to me at least willing to hear a differing view on those verses. I too had a misunderstood view of them, and the incredible Grace God bestowed on me. I'm not going to try and tackle all of them you posted now, but will hopefully give you a perspective to think and pray about Hebrews 6.

This passage, as well as Hebrews 10, at one time immobilized me with fear. I did a straight reading of them, out of context and revelation, and came to similar conclusions as you. Please do not take anything I say as established fact or doctrine. Just pray on it and be a good Berean.

Hebrews 6. 6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will[a] do if God permits.4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,[b] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Ok. In verse 1 the writer is talking about our Foundation.
Well, JESUS is our Foundation. WE may build on that Foundation with our own works over and over again. And God will tear down what WE built on THE FOUNDATION over and over again. BUT the Foundation remains in place. And the hope is tht the Holy Spirit will mold us to build a house of HIS works that HE prepared since the FOUNDATION of the world.
So the question is whether someone has accepted JESUS as THEIR Foundation. The ROCK. OR have they built their house, by their own works, on a foundation of sand, and NOT on Jesus.

So some have been ENLIGHTENED, and have been partakers of the Holy Spirit and who have TASTED the Word of God, and the powers of the age to come.

BUT.... tasting, and swallowing, are 2 DIFFERENT things. These people, similar to Judas, were around those who genuinely WERE filled with the Holy Spirit, and saw the Power of Christ. They were partakers in a sense. Did Judas ever call Jesus Lord? Didn't he usually refer to Him as Rabbi (teacher)? He never believed Jesus was God in the Flesh.

I've used this analogy before. If you've ever been on a wine tasting tour, you know that you don't swallow the wine. You smell it.You swirl it around your mouth. You TASTE it. THEN you spit it out!

You never get the "effect"of the wine, intoxication, UNLESS you swallow it. It is the same with the Holy Spirit. Those people heard the Word. Were around those who DID have the Holy Spirit. Saw miraculous power, yet never truly believed and accepted Jesus.

So how are those people, who rejected the Foundation as the ONLY answer to Salvation going to then repent (change their minds about WHO Jesus is, God in the Flesh, and what He has done, raised from the dead) ? They can't. But the Foundation will NEVER leave nor forsake those that have accepted Him.

May the Lord give you revelation and peace!
Why would it scare you? Scripture tells us to [SUP]16 [/SUP]I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
If you had the Spirit within then nothing to fear. We have scriptures telling us what being filled with Spirit should do within us. Charles Stanley: 10 Ways to Know You're Following the Holy Spirit — Charisma Magazine
Obviously if someone doesn't see the work of the Spirit in them to guide them into the things God wants us to do, then that person should really search their soul. And obviously we are still in our fallen bodies but as long as we have the spirit, it will warn us from temptation and let us know when we have done wrong. It makes us want to repent. The spirit well help us in renewing of our mind to help us be able to test and approve what is God's will. So we must live or as people say be filled with Holy spirit.Galatians 5:25New International Version (NIV)[SUP]25 [/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Romans 12:2New International Version (NIV)[SUP]2 [/SUP]Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

The outcome of living in the Spirit
Galatians 5:22-23New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Only know you from a computer screen but with how respectful you are I see some of the fruit in you just by your words. In love I respect you.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
I think my post can be looked at a little closer if I bring some thing to the forefront.

The land and its works are close to being cursed. Because the believer can't be cursed.

It not about the farmer(believer) being cursed. It is about the land and the produce from that land that the farmer(believer) works.

Are we going to work on the foundation of Christ or the foundation of our own works after we are saved?

If we don't build on the foundation of Christ, our land and works are close to being cursed and burned up.

New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


So I took what you said above and searched in my books of commentary and this is in my own words what this verse is related to.

1 Corinthians 3:5-9New International Version (NIV)[SUP]5 [/SUP]What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. [SUP]7 [/SUP]So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

This verse is not related to a persons salvation other than the fact a preacher who laid the right foundation using Gods word does not have to worry about his works saving him for how successful he his but only what rewards await him in heaven.

The verse you have stated is related to the above verse for preachers. Paul says he laid the foundation wisely in which should only be Jesus Christ. And so Paul laid the correct foundation and Apollos now must build on this foundation with care. Any builder(preacher) who built with the foundation of Christ will survive no matter how successful they were in saving the lost. In the end a small town preacher may only had the work of straw, while a Billy Graham may have his in Gold. And so these men will be tested by fire and one will be rewarded while the other may miss out on heavenly rewards but will also be saved for his obedience to try and build on the foundation of Christ that he had laid.



1 Corinthians 3:10-15New International Version (NIV)[SUP]10 (Paul)[/SUP]By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, (Preachers who teach from the word of God)and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, [SUP]13 [/SUP]their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

And if your going off this one verse it clearly contradicts many passages including some in this very epistle (John 15:1-6; Acts 8:12-24; Romans 6:12-18; 8:12-17; Galatians 5:1-4; 6:7-9; 1 Corinthians 9:25-10:12; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 5:8; 2 Timothy 2:16-18; Hebrews 3:6,11-14; 4:9,11; 6:4-8; 10:26-31; 2 Peter 1:8-11; 2:20-22
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
I do too. The same "freedom" Jonah had. "Be willing to go where I send you or enjoy gastric acid from inside a fish stomach until you are."

I've tried to walk three times. Couldn't.

Then again, we didn't choose him in the first place, so not much on personal choice with God.
I am happy you could not. But we here stories all the time of kids who choose Christ and live in a Godly home but go off to college and you can guess what happen. Only God knows if they will ever return to the faith of their youth. God chose all to be saved and its a personal choice to invite Christ in and live in faith.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
516
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Do you honestly think that you can, through your own efforts, live more righteously than the old Rabbis did? Really?
Do you really believe that is what I am saying? The Grace of God is not a mockery of God. I keep the commandments because I am saved and by Messiah I am more righteous because his sacrifice is far more then man could have done alone.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Wow, this guy lets a novel shake his theology, no wonder. He believe that hell, the lake of fire already exists and that demons or the devils runs the place, when the Bible says that it was created to punish the devil and his angels. Beside John Bevere is a prosperity preacher, which is a no gospel at all.

I heard a saying by Dr Morey "If it's new it's not true and if it's true it's not new" Grace don't keep you saved, grace causes you to be saved through faith. "bygraceyouhavebeensavedthrough faith." Grace first then faith.

I will admit I don't know the guy or believe his opinion about people going to hell who believe in OSAS, only God can know that. But I liked a lot of what he said on the scriptures. And I never read one article but many and search my commentaries in my book shelf. So I apologize if my post offended you in any way. After hearing some comments I will admit I could of chose a better link. But I still like a lot of what was said on the scriptures posted.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
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Do you really believe that is what I am saying? The Grace of God is not a mockery of God. I keep the commandments because I am saved and by Messiah I am more righteous because his sacrifice is far more then man could have done alone.
I think you may want explain a lot deeper of what you mean.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
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I will admit I don't know the guy or believe his opinion about people going to hell who believe in OSAS, only God can know that. But I liked a lot of what he said on the scriptures. And I never read one article but many and search my commentaries in my book shelf. So I apologize if my post offended you in any way. After hearing some comments I will admit I could of chose a better link. But I still like a lot of what was said on the scriptures posted.
The same guy wrote a book "the bait of satan" that lots of people took to heart. It all reminds me of the novels "this present darkness" that had people wanting to know more about satan and demons than search the Scripture to learn about the Lord. The left behind series was another novel that people used for doctrine. I'll tell what's interesting is I have a roommate that likes reading novels, I have one book that's a novel in my library and he found it, I didn't even remember I still had it.