Sabbath

VCO · Apr 15, 2017

VCO said:

To prove-all:

. . .

MY TURN:

I have heard you also argue time and again, that you do not believe in Church ordinances that you cannot see in black and white in the Scriptures, forgetting we only have the Highlights of what all Jesus said and did in the Bible (John 21:25), and you say you reject them because they come from Man, and not from GOD. If I remember right, you even reject celebrating His Birth and His Resurrection, for example, and many other things.

HOW THEN DO YOU DEAL WITH THIS VERSE?

1 Peter 2:13-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--

AND just in case you think you do not sin, every ordinance of man, certainly includes the Posted Speed Limit, and every time you break it, YOU SIN.

Two of the signs did NOT show up, not sure why, so her are two similar signs.

JohnTalmid · Apr 15, 2017

VCO said:

But we are the ones that the seed has appeared to. We are all in the valley of the shadow of death and far from the promise of the covenants of the faithful servants of YHWH Elohim in Messiah Yeshua. We are not saying that the "law of Moses" saves you Sir and Miss respectfully. I have been following the post's now for a decent month. I would like to say that I have found that the concept of salvation that's spoken about is a faith. You have to your namesthe faith to believe in the Son of YHWH Elohim in your hearts. I wonder how many of you still tell your children that Santa Claus is real. Did you get the impression that it's okay to lie to the children. Didn't Messiah say it would be better if a mill stone was hung around that person and thrown into the sea?

When the children of Israel where in the wilderness was it not what happened to them for our Instruction to not fall into disobedience as they did in the wilderness and the grave swallowed them up. So not that I am judging or judge of you because YHWH Elohim ultimately is judge of all. Judge your self wether the word would come down to tell you to follow the way of YHWH or to not because I am God. Did Messiah Yeshua ever say to do His will? No Yeshua always said to do the will of the Father. So not only is the Law no longer a command with punishment for disobedience as had been taught by our fathers but rather that through keeping the instructions in love as they have been now revieled in Messiah Yeshua to always have been filled. Yeshuaon the cross made restitution for all Flesh in regard to its sin and condemnation under the law. We know that the law has only a claim over some thing as long as it is alive. This is why you are baptised in a mikvah of water to remission of sin. You are dead now to the flesh and alive to YHWH Elohim by Means of Messiah Yeshua. You are brought near to the covenants by means of the blood of the renewed covenant of Messiah. Now we are called to a newness of the loving instruction of YHWH Elohim in Messiah Yeshua and continue In the Faith and way, truth, life, light, etc. of Scripture. How else could your "righteousness acseed that of the Pharisees". That's right I know who I worship because I practice this way. Because there is no condemnation for getting it wrong I can try again. The Mercy's of YHWH Elohim wake me up in the wilderness of sin with a cool rain. He sustains my inner man with fresh bread. I am alone but He never forsakes me. Though my heart failed I was never faint. I boast in Messiah Yeshua my friend who is with me through my worst and who safely keeps my salvation with His Father. My friends to fall away or backslide is not to return simply to sin it is to fall away from the truth that Messiah Yeshua died for. That the loving instruction of YHWH is your gift to know by trusting that you are saved. Also the person who seeks the Kingdom and its ways shall see the face of Elohim and in Messiah Yeshua find life,rest,and much more namely even to know your redemption. What the law and its observance could not do on its own was bring understanding. When Yeshua witnesses it He marveled because the Father had revieled it.

MattforJesus · Apr 15, 2017

june123 said:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way,because they were contrary to us,because they could not provide spiritual salvation,but was only temporary until Christ came,and gave the New Covenant,by the cross,and receiving the Spirit.

When a person receives the Spirit that is their sabbath,a spiritual rest.

Do we set aside a day that is a commandment that we do so,I do not see in the Bible where there is a day we set aside,although the Lord might like us to assemble on the first day of the week,but I do not see a commandment to do so,and every day is the sabbath by the Spirit.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet.

But I do not see a commandment to set the first day aside,for if it is a spiritual sabbath,then every day would be set apart,for there is no day concerned with that,where a physical sabbath can have a day concerned with it.

The physical sabbath was a day for them to rest,and cease from their own labors,profiting themselves,but if a person had need it was not against the sabbath to help them,for it was permitted to do good on the sabbath for the profit of other people,as Jesus pointed out.

The spiritual sabbath has no day concerned with it,and we do not cease from our labors concerning that,for we labor every day for the kingdom,and we are prepared unto all good works,and it does profit us to labor for that kingdom,for we do not cease from that labor of profiting ourselves in spiritual salvation,and we never cease profiting other people either.

Physical sabbath,day to cease profiting themselves,spiritual sabbath,we never cease profiting ourselves,but we labor every day for the kingdom,and following Jesus.

JohnTalmid · Apr 15, 2017

The true Sabbath has not changed. We have been given a great revelation that each day is holy however even this doesn't change the Sabbath or the appointed feast times and there Sabbaths. You are changing the law and make Yeshua to be a liar by your theology.

prove-all · Apr 15, 2017

VCO said:

ordinance of man? are birthdays required to be celebrated by law?
please show where I am required to keep mans holydays by law ?

also no veses tell us to keep the celebration of the ressurection anyway,
but the passover and first day of unleavened bread where to be keep.

Yes we are to not break the law of the land , like speeding.
But if the law tells you to sin againest God , I would not do it,
but follow God, like Danial and others have .

Holidays like x-mas, birthdays, new year , halloween, easter
theses are man made tradations, not required ordinances or law.
nor are they observed in the bible.

now Europe has new Sunday nowork laws I would be worried about.
Do you know Jesus even favored the death penalty ?

The Old Testament of the Bible speaks with perfect plainness on the issue of capital punish-
ment:“He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death” (Exodus 21:12).

Genesis 9:6 and Leviticus 24:17 also give full authority to those sitting in judgment to
execute a murderer. Deuteronomy 19:11-13 commands unsparing punishment for such
a killer: “…deliver him into the hand of the AVENGER OF BLOOD, that he may die.
Thine eye SHALL NOT PITY HIM, but thou shalt PUT AWAY THE GUILT of innocent
blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.”

Strong words, those. The God of the Old Testament clearly favored the death penalty.
The scriptures show that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testament.
In the New Testament book of Romans, God REAFFIRMS that authority:

“Let every soul be subject unto the governing authorities. For there is no authority except
from God, and the authorities that exist [speaking of man’s governments and courts] are
appointed by God.… For he [a government or court official] is God’s minister [“servant”
or “magistrate” in some translations] to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he
does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an AVENGER TO EXECUTE
WRATH on him who practices evil” (Romans 13:1-4; New King James Version).

The God of love tells us in such scriptures as Hebrews 12:5-6 that for our own good those
who commit wrong must be corrected. Correction is the God-given means to prevent crime
and other problems. Using strong correction FORCES CHANGE in criminals convicted
of lesser offenses and eliminates entirely the threat of those convicted of violent crimes
such as murder.

“Punishment, when meted out in the proper manner, and at the proper time, is one of the
greatest blessings a human being—at any age—can receive!” The reason is that if we do
not receive correction, we will proceed on a course to our own destruction (Proverbs 14:12).

Through correction, God can steer us in the path toward a happy, fulfilled life.

Many people reject God’s clear commandments involving implementation of the death penalty.
And though the death penalty was reinstated by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1976, Americans have
demenstrated a fear to sternly correct evildoers, and are vacillating in their determination to use
the God-given option of executing people for horrible wrongs.
Discipline Promptly

In Proverbs 19:18, God gives us the principle that applies to disobedient children, juvenile delinquents
or hardened criminals. We are told, “Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for
his crying” (Proverbs 19:18). There comes a point for an undisciplined child when there is no (or very
little) hope of correcting bad behavior. Often, a delinquent—and finally a hardened criminal—will result
because the parents were too soft during their child’s early years, when they had the greatest hope of
curbing the child’s self-centered and destructive ways.

As parents and as a society, we are not to “spare for his crying” by lessening the punishment. Proverbs
13:24 admonishes us, “He who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him DISCIPLINES HIM
PROMPTLY” (NKJV). For the good of society and the individual, swift, stern justice must be meted
out when wrongs are brought to light.

Ecclesiastes 8:11 tells us the importance of swift punishment when it says, “Because sentence against
an evil work is not EXECUTED SPEEDILY, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them
to DO EVIL.” How clear and wise! When wrongdoing is not immediately punished, then all or almost
all of the deterrent value to any subsequent punishment is lost!

As for determining a person’s guilt, there is only one biblical rule: “Whoever kills a person, the
murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses; but one witness is not sufficient
testimony against a person for the death penalty” (Numbers 35:30). Deuteronomy 17:6 agrees:
“Whoever is worthy of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses,
but he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness” . In God’s eyes, repeated reprieves
and appeals—and now, insistence upon DNA testing to verify guilt—should not be necessary for
death-row inmates.

Ezra 7:26 guides us toward speedy response to crime by stating, “And whosoever will not do the
law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether it be
unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.”

People who commit crimes are promised a fair trial—NOT a perfect trial. Yet so many of the
habeas corpus appeals (many of which amount to little more than stalling tactics) are procedural
and/or frivolous in nature, nit-picking the court over minor imperfections in court procedure.

The book of Proverbs states, “When the scorner is punished, the simple is made wise,”
and “Smite a scorner, and the simple will beware” (Proverbs 21:11; 19:25). People can
learn vicariously from the experiences of others!

prove-all · Apr 15, 2017

VCO said:

He would “multiply thee exceedingly” and would spread around the world,
like stars in heaven or sand on the seashore. And thy seed shall be as the dust
of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to
the north, and to the south:

I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will
make of thee a multitude of people.

Point was that what makes you think you [are not] a physical decendent of Israel?

Blik · Apr 15, 2017

Scripture makes it simple, so we know just what God wants us to do about the day we are told was blessed for our benefit. We are to work for six days in a week to do all we can to make our life in harmony with the Lord's ways and to take care of ourselves. The days of the week are given numbers from one to six. The seventh day is called the Sabbath and on that day we are to just refrain from our work trusting completely on the work of the Lord for us.

prove-all · Apr 15, 2017

VCO said:

Not sure how this proves that [Israel] did not get [a divorce], you said they
did not divorce them. I hope you are not starting to talk like and judge others,
like your long winded judgemental-verse twisting friend sparksman does.

[Originally Posted by VCO
NOR DID HE DIVORCE THEM.]

And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery
I had put her away, and given her [a bill of divorce]; yet her treacherous sister Judah
feared not,but went and played the harlot also. Jeremiah 3:8

So you do not believe a direct quote [a bill of divorce]
long winded? the other subject Israel takes up most the bible

[Originally Posted by VCO
ISRAEL Literally MEANS ISRAEL in the Bible, the true Jewish Believers]

A Jew or decedent of Judah was only one tribe of Israel,
most of the bible is about Israel , how it was formed, and only other times
are nations mentioned is when that nation came in contact with Israel.

also Acts 4:10 does not say all Israel was present, not at all.
nor does it say Israel was not divorced then.

Romans 9- Of all the decendents of Israel, only some obeyed
for your info Did you read in my long post what Israel [the name] means?

God bestowed His blessing upon Jacob, and took away his reproachful name,
and gave him a new, untainted name, Israel— which means “prevailer,” or
“overcomer with God.”

The first time the word Jew is in the bible,
they where going to war with the northern tribe of Israel

Now a question: what promises are in the bible.
what is the difference between the birthright promises, or the septer promise,
or promises to King David and Son Soloman, and the Levites ministers?

VCO · Apr 15, 2017

JohnTalmid said:

But we are the ones that the seed has appeared to. We are all in the valley of the shadow of death and far from the promise of the covenants of the faithful servants of YHWH Elohim in Messiah Yeshua. We are not saying that the "law of Moses" saves you Sir and Miss respectfully. I have been following the post's now for a decent month. I would like to say that I have found that the concept of salvation that's spoken about is a faith. You have to your namesthe faith to believe in the Son of YHWH Elohim in your hearts. I wonder how many of you still tell your children that Santa Claus is real. Did you get the impression that it's okay to lie to the children. Didn't Messiah say it would be better if a mill stone was hung around that person and thrown into the sea?

When the children of Israel where in the wilderness was it not what happened to them for our Instruction to not fall into disobedience as they did in the wilderness and the grave swallowed them up. So not that I am judging or judge of you because YHWH Elohim ultimately is judge of all. Judge your self wether the word would come down to tell you to follow the way of YHWH or to not because I am God. Did Messiah Yeshua ever say to do His will? No Yeshua always said to do the will of the Father. So not only is the Law no longer a command with punishment for disobedience as had been taught by our fathers but rather that through keeping the instructions in love as they have been now revieled in Messiah Yeshua to always have been filled. Yeshuaon the cross made restitution for all Flesh in regard to its sin and condemnation under the law. We know that the law has only a claim over some thing as long as it is alive. This is why you are baptised in a mikvah of water to remission of sin. You are dead now to the flesh and alive to YHWH Elohim by Means of Messiah Yeshua. You are brought near to the covenants by means of the blood of the renewed covenant of Messiah. Now we are called to a newness of the loving instruction of YHWH Elohim in Messiah Yeshua and continue In the Faith and way, truth, life, light, etc. of Scripture. How else could your "righteousness acseed that of the Pharisees". That's right I know who I worship because I practice this way. Because there is no condemnation for getting it wrong I can try again. The Mercy's of YHWH Elohim wake me up in the wilderness of sin with a cool rain. He sustains my inner man with fresh bread. I am alone but He never forsakes me. Though my heart failed I was never faint. I boast in Messiah Yeshua my friend who is with me through my worst and who safely keeps my salvation with His Father. My friends to fall away or backslide is not to return simply to sin it is to fall away from the truth that Messiah Yeshua died for. That the loving instruction of YHWH is your gift to know by trusting that you are saved. Also the person who seeks the Kingdom and its ways shall see the face of Elohim and in Messiah Yeshua find life,rest,and much more namely even to know your redemption. What the law and its observance could not do on its own was bring understanding. When Yeshua witnesses it He marveled because the Father had revieled it.

You seem to have left out perhaps the most important verse He gave us:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me {equals "knowing HIM", "born again", and "SAVED"}, you will keep My commands.

John 14:21 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The one who has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me. And the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father. I also will love him and will reveal Myself to him.”

VCO · Apr 15, 2017

prove-all said:

GOD ALWAYS HAS A REMNANT OF ISRAEL, WHO HAD THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

2 Chronicles 34:9 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] They went to Hilkiah the high priest and gave him the money that had been brought into the temple of God, which the Levites who were the doorkeepers had collected from the people of Manasseh, Ephraim and the entire remnant of Israel and from all the people of Judah and Benjamin and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 34:21 (NIV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Go and inquire of the LORD for me and for the remnant in Israel and Judah about what is written in this book that has been found. Great is the LORD's anger that is poured out on us because our fathers have not kept the word of the LORD; they have not acted in accordance with all that is written in this book."

Ezra 9:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] LORD God of Israel, You are righteous, for we survive as a remnant today. Here we are before You with our guilt, though no one can stand in Your presence because of this.

Isaiah 10:20-23 (ASV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and they that are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again lean upon him that smote them, but shall lean upon Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] A remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For though thy people, Israel, be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them shall return: a destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For a full end, and that determined, will the Lord, Jehovah of hosts, make in the midst of all the earth.

I REPEAT, GOD DID NOT DIVORCE THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL. GOD IS NOT FINISHED WITH THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL. THEY ARE CO-EQUALLY WITH N.T. TRUE BELIEVERS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST.

Psalm 103:8-9 (NCV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The LORD shows mercy and is kind. He does not become angry quickly, and he has great love.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] He will not always accuse us, and he will not be angry forever.

Isaiah 62:5-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marries a young woman, so your sons will marry you; and as a groom rejoices over ⌊his⌋ bride, so your God will rejoice over you.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Jerusalem, I have appointed watchmen on your walls; they will never be silent, day or night. There is no rest for you, who remind the LORD.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not give Him rest until He establishes and makes Jerusalem the praise of the earth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The LORD has sworn with His right hand and His strong arm: I will no longer give your grain to your enemies for food, and foreigners will not drink your new wine you have labored for.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For those who gather grain will eat it and praise the LORD, and those who harvest the grapes will drink ⌊the wine⌋ in My holy courts.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Go out, go out through the gates; prepare a way for the people! Build it up, build up the highway; clear away the stones! Raise a banner for the peoples.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Look, the LORD has proclaimed to the ends of the earth, “Say to Daughter Zion: Look, your salvation is coming, His reward is with Him, and His gifts accompany Him.”
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And they will be called the Holy People, the LORD’s Redeemed; and you will be called Cared For, A City Not Deserted.

VCO · Apr 15, 2017

prove-all said:

Do you really read the Proof Texts you try to use? Or do you just ASSUME it supports your twisted understanding?

I am 1/4 English, 1/4 Scotch/Irish, 1/4 German, and 1/4 Bohemian. No Israeli blood in my vains, that I can tell.

JohnTalmid · Apr 15, 2017

VCO said:

If Israel was only about phsycal descendents who is now called to the house of faith in Messiah, only Jews? Your logic is flawed

prove-all · Apr 15, 2017

VCO said:

as people yes, as a nation [kingdom] ruled and married to God- there was
a divorce, yes he will not be angry forever, but the day of the Lord drays closer.

Acts 1:6 (KJV)
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying,
Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

yes GOD IS NOT FINISHED WITH THE Nation OF ISRAEL

-
Isaiah 10
Psalm 103:8-9
Isaiah 62:5-12

5O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
6I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath
will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them
down like the mire of the streets

Just to given you something else to scoff at,
These verse above has not happened yet, comming near you.

This would take long posts to explain, that would not be read anyway.

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth
be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?
for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

VCO · Apr 15, 2017

JohnTalmid said:

No it is not. FAITH, is not tied to Bloodlines, while My People (My Nation) Israel is.

Romans 4:3-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

That total kind of FAITH has always always been the standard for SALVATION, both in the O.T. and the N.T.

Malachi 3:6-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed, you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] “Since the days of your fathers, you have turned from My statutes; you have not kept ⌊them⌋. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the LORD of Hosts. But you ask: “How can we return?”

That TOTAL FAITH AND TRUST, is what counterfeit Christians lack.

As Zola Levitt once said, "Jews put a far greater meaning on the word BELIEVE, than we English speaking people usually do. For example, if two Jews walk up to a frozen over lake in early winter and Jew#1 said to Jew#2, "Do you Believe the ice is thick enough to walk on yet?" And Jew#2 answered, "Yes, I do Believe the ice is thick enough to walk on." And then Jew#2 put one foot out there on the ice and gently tested the ice. Jew#1 would scream, "LIAR, if you really Believed it, you would have walked out there and put your whole weight on the ice."

To genuinely Believe on JESUS as the Messiah, is to willingly put your whole weight and TRUST on HIS having SAVED you by what HE accomplished on the Cross.

Another example Jesus used to explain that kind of FAITH, is when HE said "we must become like children". There is NO waivering or doubt in a little Child's Faith and Trust. For example. If a 4 year old child climbed up on the roof of the chicken coop, just as his Daddy came home from work; and his Daddy said, "Jump son, Daddy will catch you." That young Daddy had BETTER BE REALLY READY TO CATCH THAT CHILD, because that Child will not waiver or doubt, THAT CHILD WILL JUMP.

I believe that is what HE is talking about when HE talks about the FAITH OF ABRAHAM: NO Waivering, NO doubting, Just Totally TRUSTING, FAITH.

Matthew 18:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] “I assure you,” He said, “unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 4:16-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] This is why the promise is by faith, so that it may be according to grace, to guarantee it to all the descendants—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of Abraham’s faith. He is the father of us all
[SUP]17 [/SUP] in God’s sight. As it is written: I have made you the father of many nations. He believed in God, who gives life to the dead and calls things into existence that do not exist.

I cannot even count the number people who point to that verse 16, and say "See there, we are spiritual ISRAELITES." Then I remind them that Abraham was NOT an Israelite, he was from UR of the Chaldees. THAT IS WAY SOUTH OF BAGHDAD.

Genesis 11:31 (NRSV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Terah took his son Abram and his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, his son Abram's wife, and they went out together from Ur of the Chaldeans to go into the land of Canaan; but when they came to Haran, they settled there.

Harmless · Apr 16, 2017

prove-all said:

First of all, before I am accused of being anti-Israel, let me state that in October of 1973, I was part of the U.S. Navy intelligence team that backed up and assisted Israel. Otherwise they wouldn't exist as a nation today. Yes, they came that close to being over run and we came very close to nuclear war. Now you will say that they are still the apple of God's eye and He has kept them as a nation. But the Bible tells us that they are antichrist. In 1 John 4: 1- 6 we are told there are many false prophets in the world. And that any spirit that confesses that Jesus the Messiah has come in the flesh is of God. Any spirit that does not confess that Jesus the Messiah has come in the flesh, is antichrist, and was already in the world. Now what spirit did the Jews confess and still to this day confess? That the Messiah has not come and is still to come. So what does that make them and all who follow that belief? Antichrist.

You also mention about blood descendants in your posts. Prove anyone is a blood descendant of Abraham. NO ONE can. In A.D. 70 the Romans totally destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. You can read about is in history. And do you know what was kept in that temple? All of the genealogies and inheritance records for all the descendants of the tribes of Israel. That is how the Jews proved they were part of Israel. Now people can only follow that religion and claim to be a Jew. That is why God had Rome destroy those records. We know the Messiah has to come from the seed of David. But no one today has any genealogies to prove he was their ancestor. In the Bible we have Jesus's genealogies for both of his earthly parents. He is the only person in all of history that can fulfill the Biblical mandate for the actual Messiah. Also when the tribes of Israel are mentioned in Revelation 7, which many use as a proof text that Israel are God's chosen to the end, where is the tribe of Dan? Did God forget them? Did He make a mistake? I think not. He is letting His true chosen, the Spiritual descendants of Abraham, know that it is NOT the literal twelve tribes of Israel. Others have well described the grafting of those into God's family in other posts here. I can only pray that God will open your spiritual eyes to see the truths of His Word. And I mean that with all humility and sincerity. For I was the same way and subscribed to the same beliefs as you until he opened mine.

Harmless · Apr 16, 2017

Blik said:

If you would, please read posts 364 and 365. Then look it up for yourself and see what day of the week Sabbath is. We dishonor Jesus and crucify Him over and over again by not acknowledging that His sacrifice was the fulfillment of our rest. That is one reason there is no harmony today.

Harmless · Apr 16, 2017

prove-all said:

We will always look back on the seventh day of creation in remembrance of,
Also we look forward to when [the whole world] and [all creation] will be at rest.

Matthew 28 does not change the day of worship as you think.

“In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week,
came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre” (Matthew 28:1).

The King James, along with just about every other Bible version, translates
the first part of this verse, “In the end of the sabbath” or “after the sabbath.”

Yes you study the Greek text, you learn that the word for sabbath is
actually plural! “After the sabbaths,” it should read.

Jesus crucified on a Wednesday afternoon and buried later that evening,
before sunset. The next day, Thursday, was an annual [high] sabbath.
The day after that, was preparation day for the regular weekly Sabbath.

The reason Matthew refers to sabbaths, plural, is because there were
two sabbaths that week! When Matthew says Mary came early Sunday morning,
before dawn, after one of the sabbaths, he is referring to the weekly Sabbath.

-

There is one more sequence of events that provides additional support for
the 72-hour time frame and the fact that there were two “sabbaths” this week.

Mark 16:1 says Mary Magdalene and her companions bought spices
“when the sabbath was past.” They were planning to prepare these
ointments and spices so that they might anoint the body of Jesus.

Yet Luke 23:56 says they prepared these spices and then rested on the
weekly Sabbath day. Compare these two texts carefully.

Christ inspired four different Gospel accounts to be written so that all the
important details of His life might be canonized. Mark said these women
bought the spices after the sabbath was past. Luke said they prepared
the spices before the Sabbath arrived.

Those who hold to the Good Friday-Easter belief must conclude that these
verses are a glaring contradiction. They are not! They complement each
other perfectly, if you understand that there were two sabbaths that week.

The women bought the spices on Friday, after the annual sabbath on Thursday.
They prepared the spices that same day, before the weekly Sabbath,
and then rested on the Sabbath according to God’s command.

When Mary approached the tomb early Sunday morning, before sunrise,
an angel nearby exclaimed, “He is not here: for he is risen, as he said.
Come, see the place where the Lord lay” (Matthew 28:6).

There were no eyewitnesses to Christ’s resurrection,
and there is only one historical record: the Holy Bible.

Christ’s proof of His messiahship was singular:
the length of time He would be in the ground.

Yes indeed! He had already risen—the day before, just prior to sunset
at the end of the weekly Sabbath. His death, burial and resurrection
happened precisely the way He prophesied it would happen.

Look at those verses (Posts 364-365) in the original Greek. The flaw in your and others incorrect translations is you translate the same word sabbaton as week in the last part of the verse, and as Sabbaths in the first part. And to further prove how inaccurate that is, the word day, IS IN ITALICS, and not in the original text! Change the Word of God if you want to. But be forewarned and heed the warnings in Revelation 22: 18-19.

Stunnedbygrace · Apr 16, 2017

VCO said:

Wow, you are misunderstanding me, and apparently I am misunderstanding you.

Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

THAT means every verse in the Bible remains RELEVANT, and we can learn from it. NOTHING IS TO BE IGNORED.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

BUT no where in Scripture does that make Gentile Believers, part of HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, ISRAEL.

THEY have the status of BEING His CHOSEN NATION (or People), ISRAEL.

WE have the status of BEING His CHOSEN ADOPTED CHILDREN.

HOW IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

WHICH WOULD YOU RATHER BE?

John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 8:14-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father!”
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and if children, also heirs—heirs of God and coheirs with Christ—seeing that we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

And so once again we are back to the verse I quoted - a true jew is one who has had their heart circumcised. My heart has been circumcised. So, once again, I'm talking about the spirit of the word, not the letter.

VCO · Apr 16, 2017

prove-all said:

You sure have a twisted misunderstanding of why we celebrate.

It is to RETELL THE STORY OF HIS BIRTH AND THE STORY OF HIS RESURRECTION TO THE UNSAVED WORLD, whom we are commanded to go and make Disciples of, and MANY COME TO KNOW JESUS DURING THOSE SEASONS.

Luke 2:8-14 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And in the same region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with great fear.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And this will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.”
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!”

MORE PEOPLE HEAR THAT MESSAGE DURING THE CHRISTMAS SEASON THAN ANY OTHER TIME OF THE YEAR.

AND MORE PEOPLE HEAR THE MESSAGE ABOUT THE PRICE HE PAID FOR OUR SINS AND THE EXCITING JOY OF HIS RESURRECTION, THE FIRST FRUIT OF OUR OWN RESURRECTION, DURING WHAT THEY CALL EASTER, THAN ANY OTHER TIME OF THE YEAR.

Sure I HATE the Santa Claus thing and the Easter bunny thing, but I REJOICE for those who come to HEAR and Believe in the TRUTH during those seasons. Do you NOT tell unsaved believers ever about JESUS? Those seasons are the best opportunity to tell them we have.

1 Thessalonians 2:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] . . . and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Is that NOT what you are doing by forbidding to celebrate His Birth and His Resurrection?

prove-all · Apr 16, 2017

Harmless said:

I found this very interesting to read online.

THE QUEEN'S ROYAL DESCENT
FROM KING DAVID THE PSALMIST

ADAM To VICTORIA.
GENERATIONS.

1. Adam (B.C. 4000-3070), Eve.
2. Seth (B.C. 3870-2978).
3. Enos (B.C. 3765-2860).
4. Cainan (B.C. 3675-2765).
5. Mahalaleel (B.C. 3605-2710).
6. Jared (B.C. 3540-2578).
7. Enoch (B.C. 3378-3013).
8. Methuselah (B.C. 3313-2344).
9. Lamech (B.C. 3126-2344).

10. Noah (B.C. 2944-2006), Naamah,
11. Shem (B.C. 2442-2158).
12. Arphaxad (B.C. 2342-1904).
13. Salah (B.C. 2307-2126).
14. Heber (B.C. 2277-2187).
15. Peleg (B.C. 2243-2004).
16. Reu (B.C. 2213-2026).
17. Serug (B.C. 2181-2049).
18. Nahor (B.C. 2052-2003).
19. Terah (B.C. 2122-2083), Amtheta.

20. Abraham (B.C. 1992-1817), Sarah.
21. Isaac (R.C. 1896-1716), Rebekah.
22. Jacob (B.C. 1837-1690), Leah.
23. Judah (b. B.C. 1753), Tamar.
24. Hezron.
25. Aram
26. Aminadab.
27. Naashon.
28. Salmon.
29. Boaz (B.C. 1812), Ruth.
30. Obed.
31. Jesse.

[KINGS OF ISRAEL.]

32. K. David (B.C. 1085-1015), Bathsheba.
33. K. Solomon (B.C. 1033-975), Naamah.
34. K. Rehoboam (B.C. b. 1016, d. 958), Maacah.
35. K. Abijam (B.C. 958-955).
36. K. Asa (BC. 955-914), Azubah.
37. K. Jehoshaphat (B.C. 914-889).
38. K. Jehoram (B.C. 889-885), Athaliah.
39. K. Ahaziah (B.C. 906-884), Zibiah.
40. K. Joash (B.C. 885-839), Jehoaddan.
41. K. Amaziah (B.C. b. 864, d. 810), Jecholiah.
42. K. Uzziah (B.C. b. 826, d. 758), Jerushah.
43. K. Jotham (B.C. b. 783, d. 742).
44. K. Ahaz (B.C. b. 787, d. 726), Abi.
45. K. Hezekiah (B.C. b. 751, d. 698), Hephzibah.
46. K. Manasseh (B.C. b. 710, d. 643), Meshullemeth.
47. K. Amon (B.C. b. 621, d. 611), Jedidah.
48. K. Josiah (B.C. b. 649, d. 610), Hamutah.
49. K. Zedekiah (B.C. 578-599).

[KINGS OF IRELAND.]

50. K. Heremon (fl. B.C. 580), Tea Tephi.
51. K. Irial Faidh (reigned 10 years).
52. K. Eithriall (reigned 20 years).
53. Follain.
54. K. Tighernmas (reigned 50 years).
55. Eanbotha.
56. Smiorguil.
57. K. Fiachadh Labhriane (reigned 24 years).
58. K. Aongus Ollmuchaidh (reigned 21 years).
59. Maoin.
60. K. Rotheachta (reigned 25 years).
61. Dein.
62. K. Siorna Saoghalach (reigned 21 years).
63. Oholla Olchaoin.
64. K. Giallebadh (reigned 9 years).
65. K. Aodhain Glas (reigned 20 years).
66. K. Simeon Breac (reigned 6 years).
67. K. Muireadach Bolgrach (reigned 4 years).
68. K. Fiachadh Tolgrach (reigned 7 years).
69. K. Duach Laidhrach (reigned 10 years).
70. Eochaidh Buaigllcrg.
71. K. Ugaine More the Great (reigned 30 years).
72. K. Cobhthach Coalbreag (reigned 30 years).
73. Meilage.
74. K. Jaran Gleofathaeb (reigned 7 years)
75. K. Coula Cruaidh Cealgach (reigned 4 years).
76. K. Oiliolla Caisfhiachach (reigned 25 years).
77. K. Eochaidh Foltleathan (reigned 11 years).
78. K. Aongus Tuirmheach Teamharch (reigned 30 years)
79. K. Eana Aighneach (reigned 28 years).
80. Labhra Suire.
81. Blathuchta.
82. Easamhuin Eamhua.
83. Roighnein Ruadh.
84. Finlogha.
85. Fian.
86. K. Eodchaidh Feidhlioch (reigned 12 years).
87. Fineamhuas.
88. K. Lughaidh Riadhdearg.
89. K. Criombthan Niadhnar (reigned 16 years).
90. Fearaidhach Fion Feachtnuigh.
91. K. Fiaebadh Fionoluidh (reigned 20 years).
92. K. Tuathal Teachtmar (reigned 50 years).
93. K. Coun Ceadchatbach (reigned 20 years).
94. K. Arb Aonflier (reigned 30 years).
95. K. Cormae Usada (reigned 40 years).
96. K. Caibre Liffeachair (reigned 27 years).
97. K. Fiachadh Sreabthuine (reigned 30 years).
98. K. Muireadhach Tireach (reigned 30 years).
99. K. Eochaidh Moigmeodhin (reigned 7 years).
100. K. Niall of the Nine Hostages.
101. Eogan.
102. K. Murireadhach.
103. Earea.

[KINGS OF ARGYLESHIRE.]

104. K. Feargus More (A.D. 487).
105. K. Dongard (d. 457).
106. K. Conran (d. 535).
107. K. Aidan (d. 604).
108. K. Eugene IV. (d. 622).
109. K. Donald IV. (d. 650).
110. Dongard.
111. K. Eugene V. (d. 692).
112. Findan.
113. K. Eugene VII (d. A.D. 721), Spondan.
114. K. Effinus (d. A.D. 761), Fergina.
115. K. Achaius (d. A.D. 819), Fergusia.
116. K. Alpin (d. A.D. 834).

[SOVEREIGNS OF SCOTLAND.]

117. K. Kenneth II. (d. A.D. 854).
118. K. Constantin II. (d. A.D. 874).
119. K. Donald VI. (d. A.D. 903).
120. K. Malcolm I. (d. A.D. 958).
121. K. Kenneth III. (d. A.D. 994).
122. K. Malcolm II. (d. A.D. 1033).
123. Beatrix m. Thane Albanach.
124. K. Duncan I. (d. A.D. 1040).
125. K. Malcolm III. Canmore (A.D. 1055-1093), Margaret of England.
126. K. David I. (d. A.D. 1153), Maud of Northumberland.
127. Prince Henry (d. A.D. 1152), Adama of Surrey.
128. Earl David (d. A.D. 1219), Maud of Chester.
129. Isobel m. Robert Bruce III.
130. Robert Bruce IV. m. Isobel of Gloucester.
131. Robert Bruce V. m. Martha of Carriok.
132. K. Robert I. Bruce (A.D. 1306-1329), Mary of Burke.
133. Margary Bruce m. Walter Stewart III.
134. K. Robert II (d. A.D. 1390), Euphemia of Ross (d. A.D. 1376).
135. K. Robert Ill. (d. A.D. 1406), Arabella Drummond (d. A.D. 1401)
136. K. James I (A.D. 1424-1437), Joan Beaufort.
137. K. James II. (d. A.D. 1460), Margaret of Gueldres (d. A.D. 1463).
188. K. James III. (d. A.D. 1488), Margaret of Denmark (d. A.D. 1484).
139. K. James IV. (d. A.D. 1543), Margaret of England (d. A.D. 1539).
140. K. James V. (d. A.D. 1542), Mary of Lorraine (d. A.D. 1560).
141. Q. Mary (d. A.D. 1587), Lord Henry Darnley.

[SOVEREIGNS OF GREAT BRITAIN.]

142. K. James VI. and I. (A.D. 1603-1625), Ann of Denmark.
143. Princess Elizabeth (1596-1613), K. Frederick of Bohemia.
144. Princess Sophia m. Duke Ernest of Brunswick.
145. K. George I. (1698-1727), Sophia Dorothea Zelle (1667- 1726).
146. K. George II. (1727-1760), Princess Caroline of Auspach (1683-1737).
147. Prince Frederick of Wales (1707-1751), Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha.
148. K. George III. (1760-1820), Princess Sophia of Mecklenburgh Strelitz (1744-1818).
149. Duke Edward of Kent (1767-1820), Princess Victoria of Leiningen.

160. Q. Victoria (b. 1819, cr. 1838), Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg.

The Queen's Royal Descent from King David of Judah

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