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Thread: Lets Talk Free Choice

  1. #501
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Quote "Lot's of disdain being displayed above toward God's electing grace...really, really sad. It is also a straw man argument intended to be inflammatory toward those of us who believe what Scripture teaches concerning election.


    You know I really get tired of people playing the victim when their belief is questioned. This is a discussion forum,we discuss.If you cant take people questioning Calvinism you're in the wrong place. Im Pentecostal,no one gets more flack than us. So please spare us the victim card.Asking questions is not being inflammatory. Im trying to dig to the truth of what you are saying and providing verses where I think you're wrong. Im not out to get anyone,Im out to share the truth and I call it as I see it.Has nothing to do with disdain.So stop it.


    Quote "Now, as for children, don't be so certain and presumptuous, use wise caution. I say this from experience of seeing children doing this without even understanding anything about the Gospel. Over-zealous parents are the primary cause, or VBS, where they have gotten the child to raise their hand "if they want to go to heaven" then they get dunked. Maybe that's your gospel method, but it isn't the Bible's Gospel nor method of salvation. What must the child understand? That they want to go to heaven? That they want to do it because their friend got baptized, so they too want to get dunked? That if they give all the right answers to a check list, they're declared saved? (That's making mental assent to facts).

    No,talk about strawmen! That is not what I was saying at all.I said the Gospel is simple enough for a child to understand.Jesus came,He died for our sin,we can be saved.Simple.I said nothing about VBS,kids getting dunked or anything of the kind. I believe Sunday school is important for kids and VBS many parents have been brought to church to hear the truth because of these ministries.

    Quote "If you ask a child why he or she wants to be saved, ask them if they know what Jesus is saving them from, without putting words in their mouth like "Do you realize you're a sinner?" and/or "Do you want to go to heaven when you die? Let me show you from the Bible that you can go to heaven when you die?" That is all manipulation. If God is working in them to be saved they'll know this, because they have been convicted, and they don't need to answer a check list of statements and make mental assent to it.

    You're way off the reservation. Have no idea what you're going on about. I said the Gospel is simple to understand and you're off on a tangent. But again,I think the Gospel is for all,as Gods Word said. It seems by what you're saying we have to drag half the kids out of the room because they're not supposed to be convicted about heaven. Telling kids about the Gospel is a good thing to do and it is a ministry.


    Quote"Many are using the false invention of Finney in dealing with people and are clueless to it; (his anxious seat invention, where deciding for heaven is the same thing as making a career choice, and many false converts were added to local congregations). People use "the chair illustration" "Being saved is just like sitting in this chair, you sit in it because you know by faith it will support you. It's the same with Jesus." This is conflating common trust with the supernatural gift of faith. It is spiritual chicanery, manipulation, craftiness in the negative sense, and what Scripture calls underhanded ways of presenting the Gospel; 2 Corinthians 4:2.

    This is why there are so many false conversions. Obviously God did a work in the heart of the jailer which is why he believed. We believe only by the power of God that raised Christ from the dead; Ephesians 1:19. "



    I have no problem with people coming to an altar.I was in traveling ministry 20yrs had a lot of altar calls in that time.If you're going to tell me all that came to the altar were false conversions I;ll tell you that nonsense. Now,I do not believe that simply going to the altar saves you and you're good for life.We never gave those kinds of calls. But the altar is where many have been drawn by the Holy Spirit,convicted of sin and accepted Him. Some dont grow,some walk away like the parable of the sower.That doesn't make altar calls wrong.The jailer believed and was saved,simple enough for a child to understand.
    What is this crap, this has nothing to do with what i was talking about, did you mean to quote someone else?

  2. #502
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    I think I can speak for ALL here,no one believes in astro projecting here. That has nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever. Now stop derailing the thread and throwing in things that have nothing to do with the subject please.
    You don't even know what it means, second you don't know what I'm referring to nor do you see it nor can you speak for anybody else but your self, Third because your eyes and ears are some what closed you can't see it or understand it.

    I agree it's not the Christian thing to do but people do it anyway,

  3. #503
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    What is this crap, this has nothing to do with what i was talking about, did you mean to quote someone else?

    This "crap" was a response to someone else. Your name is nowhere to be found,it was quoting someone else. Have some respect for people posting here. You're inserting yourself into conversations that have nothing to do with you! You want to discuss something different go start your own thread.

  4. #504
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    You don't even know what it means, second you don't know what I'm referring to nor do you see it nor can you speak for anybody else but your self, Third because your eyes and ears are some what closed you can't see it or understand it.

    I agree it's not the Christian thing to do but people do it anyway,
    Astro projection has nothing to do with the Bible. We here are Christians and do not believe in such nonsense. So yes,I can say the people do not agree with that.If they do they are not Christians. So theres no point to be made here. Magenta did not astro project on you.Again,the subject is free will,speak to that or start your own thread.
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  5. #505
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    This is a dilemma. I have never really considered it before.

    If Jesus ascended, then descended to walk around for 40 days, that would mean He has already returned a second time.

    But does the Bible actually use the term: "SECOND coming?" I have always 'assumed' it did, but it is worth looking up. I know it says He will return, but does it specifically say that will be the SECOND coming?
    Good point Willy, I don't think the bible says (second coming) this has been a long held theory of scholars and priest etc..

    And this has came about because of what scholars and priest etc. have pushed because of a misunderstanding of the resurrection.

    I say I don't think for Ive seen bibles like the NIV change things to fit their point of view, it can be out there in a bible some where. But I don't believe in the one ascend.

  6. #506
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    I guess Im where the old man is in this story.


    In view of the doctrine of Calvinism, imagine the following conversation taking place.
    It was early Monday morning in a small rural area. Several men had gathered at the old country store drinking coffee and playing checkers, sitting around the wood stove. The young Calvinist preacher, who recently got his Doctor of Divinity degree, had just moved to his first local work. He, wanting to fit in, joined the group at the old store for coffee and conversation. Upon his arrival he tells many of the men he missed them at services yesterday. Some begin to make excuses why they did not come.The young preacher rebukes them and tells them they all should attend services each Sunday.

    There is one older man, however, who begins to ask the preacher some questions. The old man asked, “Do you believe and teach the doctrine of Calvinism?” “Yes,” the preacher said, “I do.” The old man asked, “Irresistible grace is a part of that doctrine, is it not?” The young preacher said, “Yes, man is wholly depraved and cannot do anything to save himself; therefore, God must send His Spirit directly into the heart of the lost to cause them to believe; they can neither invite nor reject God’s grace. That’s from page _____ chapter _____ of our creed book,” said the preacher.
    The old man said, “According to your doctrine, preacher, I can’t do anything to save myself. I must wait for God’s grace to act upon me, and when it does, I cannot resist it.” “That’s right,” said the young preacher, “But you should show your gratitude to God by coming to services.”The old man then said, “Preacher, don’t you believe and teach the doctrine of limited atonement?” The preacher nodded and cited another long passage from his creed book. Then the old man said, “The Bible teaches that Christ died for all men in I John 2:2, Hebrews 2:9, and I Timothy 2:3-4.” “Well, yes,” said the young preacher, “that is what it says but that’s not what it means!”The old man said, “How do you know, young man, that I am not one of the elect?” “Well,” said the preacher, “I know a lot about election; our creed book says. . .” and he quoted yet another long passage. The old man said, “What if I am one of the elect?” The preacher said, “God bless you, you would be saved.”

    “So, preacher, you believe and teach if a man is one of the elect he is saved, and if he is not he is lost, and the number is so fixed that it cannot be changed?” “That’s right,” said the preacher, “according to our creed book page____ and chapter ___.” “Now preacher, suppose I am one of the non-elect. What then?” “You would be lost,” said the preacher. “There would be nothing,” said the old man, “nothing I could do to be saved, even if I wanted to be saved?” “No,” said the preacher, “if you are not of the elect there is nothing I or anyone else could do to get you saved.” “And don’t you teach, preacher, that if I am of the elect I could do nothing to be lost?” “That’s right,” said the preacher. “We take the position that a Christian’s sins do not condemn him.”The old man said, “Let me see now, preacher, if I understand you. You believe in hereditary depravity.” “That is right,” said the preacher. “Every baby is born with sin inherited from his parents.”The old man said, “So you believe in unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, total hereditary depravity, and perseverance of the saints?” “That’s right,” said the preacher. “There are five main points of Calvinism and they are easy to remember if you just think of the word TULIP.”“Well,” said the old man, “I have learned a lot from our talk today.” “Good,” said the young preacher. “I thought you would because I have studied from our creed books for many years in school.”

    The old man then said, “Let’s see now preacher. If I understand your doctrine of Calvinism, I am depraved, born a sinner, with a sinful nature and cannot help but sin. Next, I am either saved or lost from the foundation of the world, and there is nothing anyone can do to change the state of the lost or saved. Also, if I am of the elect Christ died for me, and if not, then He did not die for me. Then as a depraved sinner, I must wait for the irresistible grace of God to come upon me, and when it does, I can fight all I want but God will save me. And finally, if I ever get salvation I cannot lose it if I tried. Is that about it, preacher?” “Well, yes,” said the preacher. “I guess that is how a layman might say it!”The old man then said, “In view of your doctrine, preacher, I suggest that next Sunday you go fishing with me and stop wasting your time and mine preaching. If your doctrine is true, man is passive in salvation. He can do nothing. It is all up to God, and surely, preacher, God will do the right thing.”

  7. #507
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Astro projection has nothing to do with the Bible. We here are Christians and do not believe in such nonsense. So yes,I can say the people do not agree with that.If they do they are not Christians. So theres no point to be made here. Magenta did not astro project on you.Again,the subject is free will,speak to that or start your own thread.
    I never said it has something to do with the bible, your joining the twister gang as well and that's not part of being a Christian.

    What I'm referring to didn't happen in this thread it was awhile ago like 2 months or so. so don't jump into something you have no clue about.

  8. #508
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    This "crap" was a response to someone else. Your name is nowhere to be found,it was quoting someone else. Have some respect for people posting here. You're inserting yourself into conversations that have nothing to do with you! You want to discuss something different go start your own thread.
    Yo bonehead look at your post 479 you quote me at the top, if you wasn't talking to me then why quote me in that post. your making no sense.

  9. #509
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    I never said it has something to do with the bible, your joining the twister gang as well and that's not part of being a Christian.

    What I'm referring to didn't happen in this thread it was awhile ago like 2 months or so. so don't jump into something you have no clue about.

    I dont care when it happened! You're coming into the thread I started and talking about something that has no bearing on the thread. YOU are doing the jumping not me! I dont care what happened 2 months ago.It has nothing to do with this subject. Leave that out of it. Comment on free will and stop derailing the thread with other things.

  10. #510
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    Yo bonehead look at your post 479 you quote me at the top, if you wasn't talking to me then why quote me in that post. your making no sense.

    Stop! Stop it!!! You're breaking the rules. Stop with the name calling. I was talking to you in that post,I was not talking to you in the other post. Keep up for pity sake!! You're doing nothing but causing strife and name calling.Grow up! This isn't grade school. Free will,thats the subject.

  11. #511
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    I dont care when it happened! You're coming into the thread I started and talking about something that has no bearing on the thread. YOU are doing the jumping not me! I dont care what happened 2 months ago.It has nothing to do with this subject. Leave that out of it. Comment on free will and stop derailing the thread with other things.
    O excuse me Mrs Boss, I don't care if you made the thread or not, it's a thread of free choice in this is my free choice to talk about it. You can't even admit you screwed up and quoted me in the post 479. Get a grip

  12. #512
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Stop! Stop it!!! You're breaking the rules. Stop with the name calling. I was talking to you in that post,I was not talking to you in the other post. Keep up for pity sake!! You're doing nothing but causing strife and name calling.Grow up! This isn't grade school. Free will,thats the subject.
    O yea for pity sake don't do the name calling yet you tell me to grow up your as sharp as a marble, I never was talking to you and you jumped into the Frey,

  13. #513
    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    Is that all you can drum up one question turned into a bunch. your such a twister of people's words your a expert at that, you got serious issues with the deversions the twisting the Astro projecting I see right through the crap you do. You so blinded you probably can't even see the things your do, you are no doubt, hook, lined and sinkered,, cut the string.
    You asked three questions, not one. If you knew the answer, why not just give it? Why do YOU seek to deceive? Oh, never mind, I know why. You have some chip on your shoulder, and you want to disparage me even though I agreed with you. You do talk a bunch of crap though. Astro projecting? What the heck??? LOL. I think you sampled too much of the merchandise
    kaylagrl likes this.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

  14. #514
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    I'll leave it alone but I'm going to say this one thing, that calling someone who is 49 years old to grow up is a type of Astro projecting that I'm some little child or immature. so yea I wonder who is really Christians around here and who isn't.

    Good day...

  15. #515
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    You asked three questions, not one. If you knew the answer, why not just give it? Why do YOU seek to deceive? Oh, never mind, I know why. You have some chip on your shoulder, and you want to disparage me even though I agreed with you. You do talk a bunch of crap though. Astro projecting? What the heck??? LOL. I think you sampled too much of the merchandise
    What ever cricketer.
    NiV to KJV to NiV to KJV no one here knows what I mean but you know what I mean you don't fool me at all. And not the only one who sees...

  16. #516
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    O yea for pity sake don't do the name calling yet you tell me to grow up your as sharp as a marble, I never was talking to you and you jumped into the Frey,
    I have no idea what happened in that post.Yes its you at the top and I dont know why that happened.I WAS not responding to a thing you said.That was to preacher. I was NOT responding to what you said. I have no idea what went wrong there.I was responding to him.Reading what you said it was clear I wasn't commenting on what you said.Often a page will jump once it has loaded.If you're so smart you'd have read it and realized it couldn't be in answer to what you were saying. Thats the first issue


    Second issue,this is my thread and I have asked people to stick to the subject and not derail it.You started discussion something else totally with Magenta and then starting yapping back at her. Then I answered and asked you to quit and you keep it up.No one the subjects got mixed up! Dont you have the manners to stick to the topic? I wouldnt come on your thread and derail it and keep it up even after I was asked to quit. Its rude! All you're doing is stirring up trouble.

  17. #517
    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    What ever cricketer.
    NiV to KJV to NiV to KJV no one here knows what I mean but you know what mean you don't fool me at all.
    Put down the bong.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

  18. #518
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    I'll leave it alone but I'm going to say this one thing, that calling someone who is 49 years old to grow up is a type of Astro projecting that I'm some little child or immature. so yea I wonder who is really Christians around here and who isn't.

    Good day...



    ​Once again this is a Christian site. Astro projection doesn't have anything to do with the Bible and it doesn't exist.Good day to you.

  19. #519
    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    BeyondET says nobody knows what he means when I have seen Willie and also
    myself respond to what he says in the positive, still he pretends otherwise?

    There is something seriously not adding up here.
    kaylagrl likes this.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

  20. #520
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    BeyondET says nobody knows what he means when I have seen Willie and also
    myself respond to what he says in the positive, still he pretends otherwise?

    There is something seriously not adding up here.

    I have no idea why someone talking astro projection is even on this site. Apparently the mods haven't seen this nonsense.smh Just here to make trouble. Asked him to stay on topic and refuses to do so and calls others names while he's at it. I dont get why these people come here.I guess they're bored and just want to stir up trouble.
    Magenta likes this.

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