Free indeed
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G
I would like to tell you about the bond servant part. It is actually quite beautiful. In the Old Testament, very poor Jews would sometimes sell themselves into slavery to other Jews. As they worked off their bond (it was sort of an indentured situation), the slave could finally buy his freedom if he so chose. BUT, he might not choose to be free- maybe his master was kind to him and was a good and loving man. Maybe the bond servant had a wife in servitude and he didn't want to be parted from her.
Anyway, if the bond servant chose to stay with his master, a hole would be borne through his ear- a ritual meaning "I choose to serve my master all the rest of my days."
This is slavery by choice.
Why on Earth would someone choose this?
The only thing I can think of, besides maybe not wanting to leave a wife who is a bond maid, is that the master loves him.
Anyway, if the bond servant chose to stay with his master, a hole would be borne through his ear- a ritual meaning "I choose to serve my master all the rest of my days."
This is slavery by choice.
Why on Earth would someone choose this?
The only thing I can think of, besides maybe not wanting to leave a wife who is a bond maid, is that the master loves him.
What if your conscience is seared? Doing what you want and when you want it also leads to something called consequences. As a Christian, when we do certain things it grieves the Holy Spirit. Some might point to this as an offense to God, but consider that God loves us. We are His children. So, do you not suppose that just maybe this grievance is actually for us, as opposed to against? He grieves for us, because He cares for us. So you see, God doesn't want us experiencing the penalties of sin, both on an eternal scale, and a temporal scale in this life. He wants us to choose life, to choose blessings, and not death.
You say you want to do what you want when you want, almost as if you are an eighteen year old kid just salivating at the idea of getting out of their parents house and to be on their own. But can you not see that what you want may not be the best thing for you? It is for this reason that God's grace is sufficient, you very well may choose to entertain this thing but you'll soon see the consequences of such actions. It is then that you may repent and see, change your mind, to find out that maybe that wasn't such a good idea. Of course, that is the school of hard knocks and its much better to listen to the wisdom God offers.
You don't have to go down that road of depression and isolation. The void that you'll find you're trying to fill is a close relationship with God. He will fill you with joy and peace. Choose life, not death. This is not an ultimatum of demand but circumstance, and if a person is outside of Christ they are already condemned. This isn't what God wants, which is why Jesus died for you. Not to condemn you, but save you. And the righteousness that He so wants in you is for your sake, and that of others, because God wants people to love. Does that sound so oppressive and domineering, to desire love, peace, and unity?
You say you want to do what you want when you want, almost as if you are an eighteen year old kid just salivating at the idea of getting out of their parents house and to be on their own. But can you not see that what you want may not be the best thing for you? It is for this reason that God's grace is sufficient, you very well may choose to entertain this thing but you'll soon see the consequences of such actions. It is then that you may repent and see, change your mind, to find out that maybe that wasn't such a good idea. Of course, that is the school of hard knocks and its much better to listen to the wisdom God offers.
You don't have to go down that road of depression and isolation. The void that you'll find you're trying to fill is a close relationship with God. He will fill you with joy and peace. Choose life, not death. This is not an ultimatum of demand but circumstance, and if a person is outside of Christ they are already condemned. This isn't what God wants, which is why Jesus died for you. Not to condemn you, but save you. And the righteousness that He so wants in you is for your sake, and that of others, because God wants people to love. Does that sound so oppressive and domineering, to desire love, peace, and unity?
We are not ""slaves"" Once a person believes Jesus and trusts in the atonement He secured for their salvation they become adopted Children of God
Romans 8: KJV
15"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. {16} The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"
If a person is calling themselves a slave of Christ they have not come to the full knowledge of the Gospel Mr moo..
The freedom in Christ is about being free from fear,, free from the judgement hanging over all the world.. The peace of mind that comes from knowing that ones eternal future is secure and with God..
You do not understand Mr moo ... You must have been in a works salvation religion if you think that one must do stuff and not do other stuff to be a part of the saved.. Salvation comes to Christians because of what they BELIEVE and in Whom they TRUST... Not in what they do or fail to do.. Christianity frees us from the condemnation that comes upon us from not being able to do good stuff and avoid doing bad stuff...
The Laws of the scriptures reveal to us that no human can do all the Laws.. They reveal our human problem.. Why we have a very serious problem with a Perfect God.... God gave the Law to reveal the problem we have and then gave the Gospel to reveal to us the Solution that can Redeem us from the problem and thus reconcile us to once again have an eternal relationship with God in His perfect existence..
Romans 8: KJV
15"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. {16} The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"
If a person is calling themselves a slave of Christ they have not come to the full knowledge of the Gospel Mr moo..
The freedom in Christ is about being free from fear,, free from the judgement hanging over all the world.. The peace of mind that comes from knowing that ones eternal future is secure and with God..
You do not understand Mr moo ... You must have been in a works salvation religion if you think that one must do stuff and not do other stuff to be a part of the saved.. Salvation comes to Christians because of what they BELIEVE and in Whom they TRUST... Not in what they do or fail to do.. Christianity frees us from the condemnation that comes upon us from not being able to do good stuff and avoid doing bad stuff...
The Laws of the scriptures reveal to us that no human can do all the Laws.. They reveal our human problem.. Why we have a very serious problem with a Perfect God.... God gave the Law to reveal the problem we have and then gave the Gospel to reveal to us the Solution that can Redeem us from the problem and thus reconcile us to once again have an eternal relationship with God in His perfect existence..
I just noticed your other thread on Hell and how you felt coerced into loving God, as if He held a pistol to your head and said "Choose me or die." The issue with this line of logic is that while salvation is an ultimatum it is equivalent to your falling off of a roof and heading for the pavement. Someone offers a parachute flying down to the side of you, I'm sure you won't complain like, "How dare he give me this ultimatum!?" It would more likely be gratitude. This is our own doing in that of sin, and also the sin of Adam because he was a representative for mankind.
But lets focus on you. You wouldn't, I hope, argue that you are perfect in love. I'm sure you can think of moments you regret, that you wish you could take back and not harm the person that you did. That standard of perfect love is one we are incapable of doing, and so while that is the standard God knew we couldn't keep it. Hence, the Gospel. The "Good News" which, as you know, is that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave on the third day for your justification(right standing) with God. He paid the price for your sin, and He reconciled you to God. But get this, it was the will of the Father that sent the Son, Jesus Christ. So God, the Father, loves you. The same God of the Old Testament.
Now you may wonder why God was so seemingly spiteful in the Old Testament, and maybe angry, but what you need to keep in mind is that God was under a covenant with a people. The Jewish people, the nation of Israel. He due to their own boasting, gave them the Law of Moses, and knowing that they'd fail, He quickly also gave them a sacrificial system by which their sins could be covered (but was only actually a shadow of the real thing to come, Jesus being the sacrificial lamb for the world/the propitiation). So, God in this covenant wanted the people to choose life, and to be blessed. Not death or whats known as the "curses of the Law." When the people acted up, there was a penalty, its part of the contract/the covenant.
You see, what truly should be seen here is not God being a task master, but rather that God is faithful to His covenant. He is not a liar, and just like God would bless them for disobedience, He had to punish them for disobedience. It is a testimony of His faithful to His word. But rejoice! In Christ, believing in Jesus, you are then put in covenant not based upon your works. Rather, it is a salvation based in faith, your righteousness of faith. God imputes, or gives you, this righteousness. You are then justified before God, not ever based upon self-merit, but upon Christ. This is why He is your savior. In this covenant, it is not blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience, albeit there is chastisement as our Heavenly Father cares for our well-being. He wants better for us. But the point is, that in the covenant you enter through Jesus Christ, it is one based upon God's grace and the finished work of Jesus Christ (His sacrifice).
What did we learn about God from the Old Testament? He ain't no liar!
So what does that mean in the new testament or new covenant? He ain't no liar! You are saved by grace through faith in the Son of God, Jesus Christ. He is faithful to His word. There is no condemnation in Jesus Christ, because it, your salvation, isn't based on you but the Son. So, believe that He did what He was sent to do, and let peace fill your heart.
God didn't use Hell as an ultimatum of force, or tyranny, but rather it is a circumstantial ultimatum, because those that do not believe in Jesus are already condemned due to the Fall, and plainly, our sins. Having been separated from God we need to be reconciled. This then is by our own rebellion, and therefore God in His goodness, chooses to save us through Jesus. He isn't forcing you to believe, He is inviting you, saving you from the predicament man put himself in.
But lets focus on you. You wouldn't, I hope, argue that you are perfect in love. I'm sure you can think of moments you regret, that you wish you could take back and not harm the person that you did. That standard of perfect love is one we are incapable of doing, and so while that is the standard God knew we couldn't keep it. Hence, the Gospel. The "Good News" which, as you know, is that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave on the third day for your justification(right standing) with God. He paid the price for your sin, and He reconciled you to God. But get this, it was the will of the Father that sent the Son, Jesus Christ. So God, the Father, loves you. The same God of the Old Testament.
Now you may wonder why God was so seemingly spiteful in the Old Testament, and maybe angry, but what you need to keep in mind is that God was under a covenant with a people. The Jewish people, the nation of Israel. He due to their own boasting, gave them the Law of Moses, and knowing that they'd fail, He quickly also gave them a sacrificial system by which their sins could be covered (but was only actually a shadow of the real thing to come, Jesus being the sacrificial lamb for the world/the propitiation). So, God in this covenant wanted the people to choose life, and to be blessed. Not death or whats known as the "curses of the Law." When the people acted up, there was a penalty, its part of the contract/the covenant.
You see, what truly should be seen here is not God being a task master, but rather that God is faithful to His covenant. He is not a liar, and just like God would bless them for disobedience, He had to punish them for disobedience. It is a testimony of His faithful to His word. But rejoice! In Christ, believing in Jesus, you are then put in covenant not based upon your works. Rather, it is a salvation based in faith, your righteousness of faith. God imputes, or gives you, this righteousness. You are then justified before God, not ever based upon self-merit, but upon Christ. This is why He is your savior. In this covenant, it is not blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience, albeit there is chastisement as our Heavenly Father cares for our well-being. He wants better for us. But the point is, that in the covenant you enter through Jesus Christ, it is one based upon God's grace and the finished work of Jesus Christ (His sacrifice).
What did we learn about God from the Old Testament? He ain't no liar!
So what does that mean in the new testament or new covenant? He ain't no liar! You are saved by grace through faith in the Son of God, Jesus Christ. He is faithful to His word. There is no condemnation in Jesus Christ, because it, your salvation, isn't based on you but the Son. So, believe that He did what He was sent to do, and let peace fill your heart. God didn't use Hell as an ultimatum of force, or tyranny, but rather it is a circumstantial ultimatum, because those that do not believe in Jesus are already condemned due to the Fall, and plainly, our sins. Having been separated from God we need to be reconciled. This then is by our own rebellion, and therefore God in His goodness, chooses to save us through Jesus. He isn't forcing you to believe, He is inviting you, saving you from the predicament man put himself in.
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I wish you could have met me 37 years ago, when I was getting smashed drunk, going from part to party, and thinking I was free! What a lie from the devil! I was crying out for someone to stop me, somehow thinking my life of sin was giving me happinesss!
Then, God saved me! I stopped drinking forever, never wanted or needed it. I found peace in God, true friends in fellowship in church and the freedom and joy of serving the right Master and Saviour - Jesus Christ!
And all that in an instant! You would have seen me knock down drunk one day, and a totally changed person , the next day. And what a wonderful life I have had walking with Christ. He has been there guiding and helping me through everything, the best friend, but also the best Lord anyone could ask for or dream of!
You see, what I thought was freedom, long ago, was bondage. Following Christ is the freedom.
As for the question of how a slave can be free, Christianity is full of paradoxes! We are not God! Some things, we can understand with our puny minds. But others, we cannot. Trust and faith brings us to a place where we can count it all joy, following Christ.
I am certain if I had continued my merry, "free" ways, before God saved me, I would be dead today. Instead, God has blessed me over and over! I have a wonderful husband, 4 grown children with excellent careers and marriages, and 4 1/2 grandchildren. I have a pension plan, my physical needs are taken care of! That was all the freedom of Christ, guiding me spiritually and blessing me.
"So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." John 8:36
Then, God saved me! I stopped drinking forever, never wanted or needed it. I found peace in God, true friends in fellowship in church and the freedom and joy of serving the right Master and Saviour - Jesus Christ!
And all that in an instant! You would have seen me knock down drunk one day, and a totally changed person , the next day. And what a wonderful life I have had walking with Christ. He has been there guiding and helping me through everything, the best friend, but also the best Lord anyone could ask for or dream of!
You see, what I thought was freedom, long ago, was bondage. Following Christ is the freedom.
As for the question of how a slave can be free, Christianity is full of paradoxes! We are not God! Some things, we can understand with our puny minds. But others, we cannot. Trust and faith brings us to a place where we can count it all joy, following Christ.
I am certain if I had continued my merry, "free" ways, before God saved me, I would be dead today. Instead, God has blessed me over and over! I have a wonderful husband, 4 grown children with excellent careers and marriages, and 4 1/2 grandchildren. I have a pension plan, my physical needs are taken care of! That was all the freedom of Christ, guiding me spiritually and blessing me.
"So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." John 8:36
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N
you may end up being a more loving devoted child than anyone else here
all true good works are actually a gift FROM God to us
not us to him
and to who much is forgiven
he loves much
you dont seem like a fool
you seem like someone who mens false "religion" and incorrect doctrine caused stumbling blocks to
being christian
isnt about going to "church" or listening to sermons
or being a goody 2 shoes gloating about how much you help people
its about actually SEEKING God and following him as best you know how in the present
im a new christian myself bro
i was a violent know it all criminal fornicator
nothing pure about me
i had a seared heart bro
i couldve just as quickly murdered as shared a sandwhich
heres the gospel according to a sappling
im in the bible daily
but just a few years ago i would spit in someones face for tryin to tell me i didnt know something
all of us deserve hell
but God was so merciful he sent Jesus to pay a price so high
it can cover any sin ever made by all men and women
when we have faith in him
its not dead faith
God sends a call to all and reveals to us that Jesus is the way
and those who accept this are given a new heart
after this
the things we once took pleasure in
now hurt us to do
and we feel conviction to turn from them
if we grow in the word and continue to follow Jesus and seek Gods will for us
this is practicing righteousness
we start to turn from sin
like swearing
vengence
masterbation
fornication
false idols
and it becomes not a burden
but a joy when we overcome sin through christ who strengthens us
i believe it is possible to walk holy as Job did
but this isnt what earns salvation
it shows our fruit
i think God preserved his Word
and the bible is meant to be taken literally
(unless its obvious hyperbole)
all true good works are actually a gift FROM God to us
not us to him
and to who much is forgiven
he loves much
you dont seem like a fool
you seem like someone who mens false "religion" and incorrect doctrine caused stumbling blocks to
being christian
isnt about going to "church" or listening to sermons
or being a goody 2 shoes gloating about how much you help people
its about actually SEEKING God and following him as best you know how in the present
im a new christian myself bro
i was a violent know it all criminal fornicator
nothing pure about me
i had a seared heart bro
i couldve just as quickly murdered as shared a sandwhich
heres the gospel according to a sappling
im in the bible daily
but just a few years ago i would spit in someones face for tryin to tell me i didnt know something
all of us deserve hell
but God was so merciful he sent Jesus to pay a price so high
it can cover any sin ever made by all men and women
when we have faith in him
its not dead faith
God sends a call to all and reveals to us that Jesus is the way
and those who accept this are given a new heart
after this
the things we once took pleasure in
now hurt us to do
and we feel conviction to turn from them
if we grow in the word and continue to follow Jesus and seek Gods will for us
this is practicing righteousness
we start to turn from sin
like swearing
vengence
masterbation
fornication
false idols
and it becomes not a burden
but a joy when we overcome sin through christ who strengthens us
i believe it is possible to walk holy as Job did
but this isnt what earns salvation
it shows our fruit
i think God preserved his Word
and the bible is meant to be taken literally
(unless its obvious hyperbole)
A dog chained to a tree seeks to be free in order to run, chase, and sniff all the other dogs.............one who is bound under sin has no option, but when set free in Christ we are no longer bound under the penality of sin and the condemnation that comes with it, we now have the option and choice to serve God faithfully and are no longer bound to the proverbial tree.........
You've given your own definition of freedom, and then argued about it. What we are free from is the second death, and the fear of it. We are free from judgment of sin, because Jesus has undergone judgment on our behalf. We are free from uncertainty, because God is certain and sure. We are free from worry, because we can bring God our concerns and leave them with Him. We are free from the clutches of sin, because Jesus' blood has broken the bondage for us. And so on...
