***Benefits of Praying in Tongues/Mental Clarity ***since we live in a "spiritual world" where there is a spiritual war going on we need spiritual clarity of thought***many times our minds are bombarded with thoughts and "shadows" since the enemy knows the better we hear our Heavenly Father the more dangerous we are to the kingdom of darkness***praying in tongues brings clarity of thought---opening up the Spirit to our lives and minds***the Word of God is our number one guide and foundation, but the Lord has also sent us a Helper to enlighten us and our path (John 16:13)***Grace and Peace...
Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues
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The Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to utter His own intercessions which happens to be unspeakable that even His groanings cannot be uttered.
John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
The truth is that Jesus had said this:
Matthew 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.[SUP] 8[/SUP]Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]Give us this day our daily bread.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.[SUP]13 [/SUP]And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
That is proof that you are reading Paul's words wrong in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to exalt yourself as a tongue speaker using tongues for private use as if you are so much more special than the rest of us because you have tongues to "pray".
Think about what you are arguing for. If tongues was really meant for private use, then what are you doing? Bragging about it to non-tongue speakers? If not every body is supposed to get tongues, then why even talk among other tongue speakers about using it privately when you insist that such an event is for the individual believer?
Matthew 6:[SUP]5 [/SUP]And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.[SUP]6 [/SUP]But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
So if using tongues privately is meant to be, then why brag about it? Why tell any one about it? To be seen of men? To testify that you are doing something that not every believer is doing? That by using tongues privately, non-tongue speakers are missing out on something? That you have something that you take to mean you are closer to God in that way for?
This thread that attempts to explain all the benefits for speaking in tongues privately, but you know what? YOU cannot say what that tongue was for the last time you used it privately.
That is proof that tongues is not to be used privately because it has to come with interpretation for that tongue to even be fruitful to the tongue speaker to KNOW & UNDERSTAND what that tongue is doing at the time it was manifested in the assembly.
Paul was not teaching how tongues can be used privately at all. You missed the point why he was comparing tongues against prophesy because tongues is not a stand alone gift, but prophesy is. That is why prophesy is better than tongues.
Scripture refutes how you are applying Paul's words to use tongues privately which is why you DON'T have the real God's gift of tongues at all. You were warned not to believe every spirit but test them; including the tongues it brings.
You can keep your tongue. I sure don't need it to pray to the Lord. The Father knows everything before I ask Him any way. I would rather know what I had prayed for so that I can give the Father genuine thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers than babble and not know what I just did in tongues. I have the King James Bible for my edification. I can worship Him in spirit and in truth knowing I am praising God in my normal tongue. I am more blessed than you in doing all those things that way than what you claim you guys are blessed by for using tongue privately, and the kicker is... you can do it too. No extra supernatural phenomenon required. No need to brag about in having anything extra in separating yourself from the rest of the body of Christ to worship Him in spirit & in truth TOGETHER.
You oppose yourself and know it not. Only God can peradventure to deliver you from this snare of the devil. I cannot.
John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
The truth is that Jesus had said this:
Matthew 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.[SUP] 8[/SUP]Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]Give us this day our daily bread.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.[SUP]13 [/SUP]And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
That is proof that you are reading Paul's words wrong in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to exalt yourself as a tongue speaker using tongues for private use as if you are so much more special than the rest of us because you have tongues to "pray".
Think about what you are arguing for. If tongues was really meant for private use, then what are you doing? Bragging about it to non-tongue speakers? If not every body is supposed to get tongues, then why even talk among other tongue speakers about using it privately when you insist that such an event is for the individual believer?
Matthew 6:[SUP]5 [/SUP]And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.[SUP]6 [/SUP]But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
So if using tongues privately is meant to be, then why brag about it? Why tell any one about it? To be seen of men? To testify that you are doing something that not every believer is doing? That by using tongues privately, non-tongue speakers are missing out on something? That you have something that you take to mean you are closer to God in that way for?
This thread that attempts to explain all the benefits for speaking in tongues privately, but you know what? YOU cannot say what that tongue was for the last time you used it privately.
That is proof that tongues is not to be used privately because it has to come with interpretation for that tongue to even be fruitful to the tongue speaker to KNOW & UNDERSTAND what that tongue is doing at the time it was manifested in the assembly.
Paul was not teaching how tongues can be used privately at all. You missed the point why he was comparing tongues against prophesy because tongues is not a stand alone gift, but prophesy is. That is why prophesy is better than tongues.
Scripture refutes how you are applying Paul's words to use tongues privately which is why you DON'T have the real God's gift of tongues at all. You were warned not to believe every spirit but test them; including the tongues it brings.
You can keep your tongue. I sure don't need it to pray to the Lord. The Father knows everything before I ask Him any way. I would rather know what I had prayed for so that I can give the Father genuine thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers than babble and not know what I just did in tongues. I have the King James Bible for my edification. I can worship Him in spirit and in truth knowing I am praising God in my normal tongue. I am more blessed than you in doing all those things that way than what you claim you guys are blessed by for using tongue privately, and the kicker is... you can do it too. No extra supernatural phenomenon required. No need to brag about in having anything extra in separating yourself from the rest of the body of Christ to worship Him in spirit & in truth TOGETHER.
You oppose yourself and know it not. Only God can peradventure to deliver you from this snare of the devil. I cannot.
The Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to utter His own intercessions which happens to be unspeakable that even His groanings cannot be uttered.
"Cannot" or does not?
Perhaps it's a minor point, but I myself generally avoid using "God" in the same sentence as "cannot" (or the Holy Spirit, or Jesus). But that's just me.
Perhaps it's a minor point, but I myself generally avoid using "God" in the same sentence as "cannot" (or the Holy Spirit, or Jesus). But that's just me.
Scripture says it. Not me.
John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
I can say something about the Holy Spirit that cannot be backed up by scripture directly but you should know it is true.
The Holy Spirit CANNOT die on the cross. The Son of God/Son of Man did, but the Holy Spirit & the Father did not die on the cross. There is an indirect support from scripture that proves this, when the Son had experienced a separation from the Father when an unexplained darkness came over the entire world for that was when the Son took all our sins upon Himself.
Matthew 27:[SUP]45 [/SUP]Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.[SUP] 46 [/SUP]And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
2 Corinthians 5:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
And so I can back up by scripture that the Holy Spirit CANNOT use tongues to utter His own intercessions. He is limited to only speak what He hears. He has no words of His own to speak for Himself or on His own accord. ALL Bible versions testified to that in John 16:13, but only the KJV keeps the truth in His words in Romans 8:26-27 in that His intercessions are unspeakable because not even His groanings can be uttered.
The Holy Spirit can be the Spirit of the Father in speaking for Him and the Spirit of Christ in speaking for Jesus, but He cannot be the Spirit of the Spirit in speaking for Himself. He is the divine Witness of God that is a true Witness for God.
The Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to utter His own intercessions which happens to be unspeakable that even His groanings cannot be uttered.
Scripture says it. Not me.
John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
Agreed. The Holy Spirit cannot be killed by men or Satan (or demons, or angels, etc.). Similarly, Jesus' earthly body died on the cross. But Jesus spirit did not die.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matt. 10:28)
John 16 is speaking of the Holy Spirits ministry of leading and guiding us into the truth. The Holy Spirit does not add to the word of God. The Holy Spirit speaks only of what God has already spoken for our benefit.
Romans speaks more to the fervent effectual prayer of our prayer labors. It speaks to the great heart felt need we have for one we believe to be lost and we beseech God to bring about their salvation. Paul said as much also in Romans when he said he could wish himself accursed for the sake of Israel.
This along with Jesus prayer and sweating as it were great drops of blood in the garden does not relate to praying in tongues as it is demonstrated in the modern church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Romans speaks more to the fervent effectual prayer of our prayer labors. It speaks to the great heart felt need we have for one we believe to be lost and we beseech God to bring about their salvation. Paul said as much also in Romans when he said he could wish himself accursed for the sake of Israel.
This along with Jesus prayer and sweating as it were great drops of blood in the garden does not relate to praying in tongues as it is demonstrated in the modern church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The end result is the same thing. If He shall not do something then He cannot do it for then that would defy His word and defy Who He is if He would and could do it.
The phrase "with groanings which cannot be uttered" is in reference to the Spirit making intercessions for us.
Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
Therefore the verse is not testifying of us when we pray, but how the Holy Spirit makes intercessions for us but cannot be uttered as even His groanings cannot be uttered. That is why verse 27 is explaining how the unspeakable intercessions of the Spirit's are known to God the Father and that is by Jesus Christ knowing the mind of the Spirit as Jesus Christ is the One that searches our hearts as He is the "he" in verse 27 that intercedes for the saints in according to the will of God which is that there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
The point of saying the Holy Spirit cannot is in reference to tongue speakers that believe the Holy Spirit would use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people and turn it around to start using tongues for His own personal use in uttering His own intercessions... and it is in that regard that I say the Holy Spirit cannot do that; it goes against Who He is and how He speaks which is for God the Father and for God the Son; and not for Himself.
The phrase "with groanings which cannot be uttered" is in reference to the Spirit making intercessions for us.
Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
Therefore the verse is not testifying of us when we pray, but how the Holy Spirit makes intercessions for us but cannot be uttered as even His groanings cannot be uttered. That is why verse 27 is explaining how the unspeakable intercessions of the Spirit's are known to God the Father and that is by Jesus Christ knowing the mind of the Spirit as Jesus Christ is the One that searches our hearts as He is the "he" in verse 27 that intercedes for the saints in according to the will of God which is that there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
The point of saying the Holy Spirit cannot is in reference to tongue speakers that believe the Holy Spirit would use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people and turn it around to start using tongues for His own personal use in uttering His own intercessions... and it is in that regard that I say the Holy Spirit cannot do that; it goes against Who He is and how He speaks which is for God the Father and for God the Son; and not for Himself.
Perhaps (or in some contexts, per chance). btw, I learned that word from reading the bible.
24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? (Gen 18:24)
24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? (Gen 18:24)
I want to know what Enow thinks it means.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,[SUP] 25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Thanks for the response, but it did not answer my question. I would like to know the meaning of the word, "peradventure" as you used it, in your statement, "Only God can peradventure to deliver you from this snare of the devil. I cannot."
In other words, what is the definition of the word as you employed it?
In other words, what is the definition of the word as you employed it?
J
i think we disagreed on a few doctrines but i am proud to say he was my friend. he was for sure a believer and a seeker and always nice, never hateful when in disagreement, makes no sense someone like that getting banned from a "Christian" discussion group which IMO is not so Christian. i will miss him.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,[SUP] 25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Only God can do it, if He is willing at that time. If you cannot see that definition from that verse or in how I employed it in my statement, I cannot help you.
Only God can do it, if He is willing at that time. If you cannot see that definition from that verse or in how I employed it in my statement, I cannot help you.
There are two ways to look at speaking in tongues or praying in tongues or singing in tongues. Consider what Paul said when it comes to speaking in tongues, and this he means, by language barrier. That if that church should be speaking in an unknown tongue, let their be an interpreter there, but if there is not one, let him pray and speak to himself. That's the language barrier. I'm not saying that speaking or praying in tongues is wrong, but what I do know is that when the Holy Spirit is within you, He will move you. I don't know necessarily to the point of falling out into the floor, but I do know He speaks, and the way He speaks is by reading the Word and studying and not quenching Him. Man cannot understand the true speech of the Holy Spirit, hence why it was written that the Spirit cannot speak of himself. How would we understand? But thankfully, God's word is our interpreter and the Holy Spirit is our Comforter!
To every one reading the OP and this thread:
For all the benefits listed for using tongues privately, can any tongue speaker KNOW what that tongue did the last time they had used tongues privately? Let's look at this confusion.
There are two different modes for using tongues privately;
There is praying in tongues privately which is divided by tongue speakers as what that means;
#1. The Holy Spirit is praying using tongues to utter His own intercessions; ( not true because of John 16:13 )
#2. The tongue speaker is praying in tongues
Then there is speaking in tongues privately for self edification, giving of thanks, songs of worship, doctrine, revelation, etc.
So..
How can you tell what that tongue did the last time you used it privately?
Were you praying in tongues privately or speaking in tongues privately and if the latter, which of those benefits did you get when speaking in tongues privately last?
As far as I can tell, Paul said as a tongue speaker that he prayed that another would interpret so that he would understand what that tongue was doing and then that tongue would be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker.
So I really believe if tongue speakers are honest, Biblically, they cannot answer those questions since Paul cannot know unless it was interpreted. Hence my contention that the real God's gift of tongues are not for private use at all.
But I am sure someone will try to answer that question even if it isn't really supported by Paul's words.
Tongue speakers; what benefit did you receive the last time you had spoken in tongues privately as listed in the OP?
How can you tell what benefit when there are two different modes of tongues to be used privately and the nonpraying mode has more benefits listed even among that?
For all the benefits listed for using tongues privately, can any tongue speaker KNOW what that tongue did the last time they had used tongues privately? Let's look at this confusion.
There are two different modes for using tongues privately;
There is praying in tongues privately which is divided by tongue speakers as what that means;
#1. The Holy Spirit is praying using tongues to utter His own intercessions; ( not true because of John 16:13 )
#2. The tongue speaker is praying in tongues
Then there is speaking in tongues privately for self edification, giving of thanks, songs of worship, doctrine, revelation, etc.
So..
How can you tell what that tongue did the last time you used it privately?
Were you praying in tongues privately or speaking in tongues privately and if the latter, which of those benefits did you get when speaking in tongues privately last?
As far as I can tell, Paul said as a tongue speaker that he prayed that another would interpret so that he would understand what that tongue was doing and then that tongue would be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker.
So I really believe if tongue speakers are honest, Biblically, they cannot answer those questions since Paul cannot know unless it was interpreted. Hence my contention that the real God's gift of tongues are not for private use at all.
But I am sure someone will try to answer that question even if it isn't really supported by Paul's words.
Tongue speakers; what benefit did you receive the last time you had spoken in tongues privately as listed in the OP?
How can you tell what benefit when there are two different modes of tongues to be used privately and the nonpraying mode has more benefits listed even among that?
Your response, together with the repeated quote of 2 Tim 2:24, indicates that you don't understand my question. It's really simple: what do you think the word "peradventure" means?
I am not asking, "What does 'peradventure' mean?" because I know what the word means. Nor am I asking what it means in 2 Tim 2:24; I know that too. A quoted dictionary definition will not answer the question, nor will yet another quote of Scripture.
As you used it, the word "peradventure" does not mean "only God can do it, if He is willing at that time". Your clause may mean that, but the word doesn't. Please try again. Here's a hint: look carefully at its placement within the KJV of 2 Tim 2:24. Then give me its definition/meaning as you used it in the statement, "Only God can peradventure to deliver you from this snare of the devil. I cannot."
I am not asking, "What does 'peradventure' mean?" because I know what the word means. Nor am I asking what it means in 2 Tim 2:24; I know that too. A quoted dictionary definition will not answer the question, nor will yet another quote of Scripture.
As you used it, the word "peradventure" does not mean "only God can do it, if He is willing at that time". Your clause may mean that, but the word doesn't. Please try again. Here's a hint: look carefully at its placement within the KJV of 2 Tim 2:24. Then give me its definition/meaning as you used it in the statement, "Only God can peradventure to deliver you from this snare of the devil. I cannot."