Praying In Tongues/Revelation***praying in tongues in no way is putting down praying in English, but rather is complimentary***Some have said why did the Lord not speak in tongues***since the Lord was sinless and in perfect communion with the Father He had the Spirit without measure***since we were born with a sin nature and do not have perfect communion with the Father the Holy Spirit has been given to us to help boost that connection***as we pray in tongues we can receive revelation in our spirits***many times we do not know how to pray, but the Holy Spirit always knows how to pray***I have prayed in tongues at times and immediately will know what the Spirit is bringing to my spirit which will help me pray more effectively in English***I in no way consider those who do not speak in tongue as second class citizens***we all have much to gain in the Lord and when I consider others I realize more and more that the Lord has much to give to His children***if we could live for 1,000 years we would still be growing in the Lord and becoming more Christlike...
Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues
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Praying in Tongues/Built Up in Faith***as we pray in tongues it builds up and edifies our spirits***many times when I have been down and prayed in tongues I begin to receive inspiration and encouragement from the Holy Spirit***I believe all can speak in tongues for speaking in tongues is not one of the 9 gifts rather it is part of the Holy Spirit's empowerment***the gift of tongues as one of the 9 gifts is to be interpreted and is for edifying people as prophecy---edification, exhortation, and comfort***for those who are hungry to learn more about the Holy Spirit I encourage you to look into the Assembly of God's theology on this subject***I have studied under some of their teachers who were educated at Princeton and Harvard, so there is firm theological teaching on this subject***another person of interest is Jack Deere who was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas who started speaking in tongues and even seeing miracles in his ministry...
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
(1 Corinthians 14:14)
why then should the mind desire this?
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
(1 Corinthians 14:15)
(1 Corinthians 14:15)
Paul seems quite obviously to desire something greater for his brothers & sisters. go on and read vv. 16-25: the purpose is love, that "more excellent way" -- that we should set aside ourselves for others. in light of what is written, then, isn't seeking to pray in tongues a selfish desire? you may give thanks well enough ((as Paul writes)), but you edify no one, not even your own mind.
Paul says if he prays in tongues - his spirit prays . . . his mind is unfruitful but what about his spirit? It is edified - (1 Cor. 14:4) So he will pray with his spirit; so that his spirit is edified but he will also pray with his understanding so that his mind is fruitful . . .
Of course, in the church he would rather speak or pray with understanding so that all are edified . . . BUT if one speaks in a tongue let that one interpret that the church may receive edifying. (1 Cor. 14:5)
Of course, in the church he would rather speak or pray with understanding so that all are edified . . . BUT if one speaks in a tongue let that one interpret that the church may receive edifying. (1 Cor. 14:5)
If your exegetic would is right, and every believer can have f.e. the gift of discerning the spirits, I wonder that multy millions of born again believers following false doctrines and teachings.
No scripture support your claim that every believer can have all the gifts ore all believers can have every gift. What you are doing ist eisegese but not exegese. Otherwise I cant follow your argumentation.
No scripture support your claim that every believer can have all the gifts ore all believers can have every gift. What you are doing ist eisegese but not exegese. Otherwise I cant follow your argumentation.
. . . the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man for the common good . . . .
Every believer is born again of the Spirit - correct?
God is Spirit - correct? His Spirit communicates with my spirit - correct? Then God will aid me in discerning spirits as he will everyone born of his Spirit.
Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ and you shall receive the gift of holy Spirit . . . so everyone who repents and is baptized receives the gift of holy Spirit - correct?
Then everyone who has been born of the Spirit can manifest the manifestations of the Spirit - 1 Cor. 12:7-10
Some will utilize the gift God has given them - some will not . . . because they can't? Nope - because they do not know they can and some believe the things listed are "special" gifts for only a select few . . . That is the problem.
You don't have to believe me . . . just read what is plainly written.
Every believer is born again of the Spirit - correct?
God is Spirit - correct? His Spirit communicates with my spirit - correct? Then God will aid me in discerning spirits as he will everyone born of his Spirit.
Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ and you shall receive the gift of holy Spirit . . . so everyone who repents and is baptized receives the gift of holy Spirit - correct?
Then everyone who has been born of the Spirit can manifest the manifestations of the Spirit - 1 Cor. 12:7-10
Some will utilize the gift God has given them - some will not . . . because they can't? Nope - because they do not know they can and some believe the things listed are "special" gifts for only a select few . . . That is the problem.
You don't have to believe me . . . just read what is plainly written.
I suppose you are talking about: 1 Cor. 12:8-10 and the word "another"?
Two Greek words are used in the above verses - allos and heteros and they have different meanings. Vine's Lexicon: Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes "another of the same sort"; heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort".
1) So in verse 8 - To one (ho men) is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another (allos) a word of knowledge; meaning a word of wisdom and a word of knowledge are the same kind = allos
2) v9, 10a - To another (heteros - different sort) faith, another (allos - same kind) gifts of healings, to another (allos - same kind)miracles, to another (allos - same kind) prophecy and to another (allos - same kind) discerning of spirits . . . all these are of the same kind allos but different (heteros) from Group 1.
3) v10b - tongues and interpretation of tongues are different (heteros - different sort) different from Group 2 but of the same kind (allos) as each other
"Paul's own use of language indicates a pattern of organization, 2 + 5 + 2 . . . Paul begins with word of wisdom and word of knowledge. To someone else (hetero) introducing a new series of five (vv.9-10c). Another (hetero) introducing the final pair" (paraphrased from First Corinthians, Raymond Collins)
God does not what us to be ignorant of spiritual things (1 Cor. 12:1). Each Christian has been given the gift of holy Spirit, which has nine manifestations, which are energized by the Lord Jesus. This is why God tells us to STUDY.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man for the common good. 1 Cor. 12:7
Two Greek words are used in the above verses - allos and heteros and they have different meanings. Vine's Lexicon: Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes "another of the same sort"; heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort".
1) So in verse 8 - To one (ho men) is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another (allos) a word of knowledge; meaning a word of wisdom and a word of knowledge are the same kind = allos
2) v9, 10a - To another (heteros - different sort) faith, another (allos - same kind) gifts of healings, to another (allos - same kind)miracles, to another (allos - same kind) prophecy and to another (allos - same kind) discerning of spirits . . . all these are of the same kind allos but different (heteros) from Group 1.
3) v10b - tongues and interpretation of tongues are different (heteros - different sort) different from Group 2 but of the same kind (allos) as each other
"Paul's own use of language indicates a pattern of organization, 2 + 5 + 2 . . . Paul begins with word of wisdom and word of knowledge. To someone else (hetero) introducing a new series of five (vv.9-10c). Another (hetero) introducing the final pair" (paraphrased from First Corinthians, Raymond Collins)
God does not what us to be ignorant of spiritual things (1 Cor. 12:1). Each Christian has been given the gift of holy Spirit, which has nine manifestations, which are energized by the Lord Jesus. This is why God tells us to STUDY.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man for the common good. 1 Cor. 12:7
Every situation is different - I don't know what was wrong with your father or your mother; illness or just old age. I don't know if they truly believed they could be healed . . . I don't know if the people around them had faith . . . There are a lot of circumstances involved in each situation. I would never tell anyone they should have been able to heal someone but didn't . . . .
When Jesus raised the ruler's daughter in Matt. 9 . . . the people around laughed him to scorn (unbelief) and he had to wait until they were removed from the room before he raised her. He got rid of the unbelief . . .
I had breast cancer - I sure wished I had the faith to just let God heal me but I didn't. I knew God healed but did I truly believe that he would heal ME? Doubt and fear assailed me . . . I went through all the surgery, chemo and radiation by man's hand . . . BUT I knew God was guiding the doctors and was with me throughout.
There are a lot of variables that we can't explain and that we don't even need to worry about - we believe God's word no matter what is going on around us -
When Jesus raised the ruler's daughter in Matt. 9 . . . the people around laughed him to scorn (unbelief) and he had to wait until they were removed from the room before he raised her. He got rid of the unbelief . . .
I had breast cancer - I sure wished I had the faith to just let God heal me but I didn't. I knew God healed but did I truly believe that he would heal ME? Doubt and fear assailed me . . . I went through all the surgery, chemo and radiation by man's hand . . . BUT I knew God was guiding the doctors and was with me throughout.
There are a lot of variables that we can't explain and that we don't even need to worry about - we believe God's word no matter what is going on around us -
Nobel thought but it is you that is not comprehending what the scripture is saying.
This is a bold statement but there is nothing in the bible to support what you are saying. You base your statement on your experiences and not on scriptural evidence. You have nothing that gives definitive evidence that anything spoken in the apostolic church was anything other than human languages.
Paul does say that it is better to speak five words with understanding.
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Paul does say that it is better to speak five words with understanding.
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Sorry to burst your bubble but Harvard and Princeton were at one time great bastions of education for the Lord. They considered the bible to be the queen of the sciences. Sadly today that are the opposite. They are filled with men who deny the deity of Christ and the verbal and plenary inspiration of the bible. DTS has long ago compromised it's stand on biblical truth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It takes some of us to go to a MAJOR place of disposing of what we were first taught about the Bible and the Holy Spirit in order to even look at the "possibility" of the speaking in tongues issue. We have been taught that speaking in tongues is from the devil because of course God would never ask us to do anything we don't understand!!!
Consider how each day even in the human earthly realm we will trust any random chair out in any random building to sit in and be able to hold us up. We trust that when we turn on the light switch., a light will INDEED go on! Consider we will get in a car and drive it., and for many of us., not know HOW IN THEEE WORLD this hunk of machinery will get us from point A to point B every day without fail (!!!!!!!) Or even more astounding getting on an airplane... a massive ton-age of metal with seats for us to sit in crammed in with other humans and go waaaay up into the air thousands and thousands of feet in a metal TUBE., not even knowing the pilots or the crew or the ones who built the thing!
Yet we Christians.... those who are admonished by our Savior to walk by faith and not by sight... we will not even consider the idea that speaking in an unknown heavenly language would be asked of us by God and be a blessing for us should we dare trust enough to go there with our limited yet picky human understanding.
Once we begin to walk by faith., we will be asked DAILY to stretch our limited understanding and simply trust that the Holy Spirit will show up and make all things work out for our good and the good of His Kingdom via the faith and truth route of believing in that new and living way. Believing in things as shocking as speaking in an unknown tongue trusting that the Holy Spirit HIMSELF is in it and working out the words to make a perfect prayer to the Father on our behalf. Wow., Just astounding!!!!
Consider how each day even in the human earthly realm we will trust any random chair out in any random building to sit in and be able to hold us up. We trust that when we turn on the light switch., a light will INDEED go on! Consider we will get in a car and drive it., and for many of us., not know HOW IN THEEE WORLD this hunk of machinery will get us from point A to point B every day without fail (!!!!!!!) Or even more astounding getting on an airplane... a massive ton-age of metal with seats for us to sit in crammed in with other humans and go waaaay up into the air thousands and thousands of feet in a metal TUBE., not even knowing the pilots or the crew or the ones who built the thing!
Yet we Christians.... those who are admonished by our Savior to walk by faith and not by sight... we will not even consider the idea that speaking in an unknown heavenly language would be asked of us by God and be a blessing for us should we dare trust enough to go there with our limited yet picky human understanding.
Once we begin to walk by faith., we will be asked DAILY to stretch our limited understanding and simply trust that the Holy Spirit will show up and make all things work out for our good and the good of His Kingdom via the faith and truth route of believing in that new and living way. Believing in things as shocking as speaking in an unknown tongue trusting that the Holy Spirit HIMSELF is in it and working out the words to make a perfect prayer to the Father on our behalf. Wow., Just astounding!!!!
Believing in CHRIST
sufficient
if HE chooses to give a gift for building up HIS BODY HE will do so
we don't walk by sight you are right
and being given gifts (manifestations of the spirit) is not the validation of our faith walk...
its picking up our cross (daily) and keeping our eyes on HIM
We walk by faith (in HIM) not by sight
from faith ----->to faith
from first------->to last
Thats faith properly directed in and on HIM
Even after the gifts cease
sufficient
if HE chooses to give a gift for building up HIS BODY HE will do so
we don't walk by sight you are right
and being given gifts (manifestations of the spirit) is not the validation of our faith walk...
its picking up our cross (daily) and keeping our eyes on HIM
We walk by faith (in HIM) not by sight
from faith ----->to faith
from first------->to last
Thats faith properly directed in and on HIM
Even after the gifts cease
The whole context of 1 Cor. 12 - 14 concerns spiritual matters. I am not basing anything on my experiences . . . what experiences would I be using? Paul said: "I thank my God that I speak with tongues more than you all." Did I say that I have evidence that anything spoken in the early church was anything other than human languages??? If so, where?
"I thank my God that I speak with tongues more than you all." . . . You read that as Paul being multilingual - I read it as Paul speaking in tongues, i.e manifesting the gift of holy Spirit which is within the context of 1 Cor. 12-14.
Yes, Paul did say that 1 Cor. 14:19 but he also said that he spake with tongues more than all of them.
I would that you all spake with tongues, but rather that you prophesied: for greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks with tongues, EXCEPT (unless) he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 1 Cor. 14:5
if any man speak in an tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course (in order); and let one interpret. 1 Cor. 14:27
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Cor. 14:39,40
"I thank my God that I speak with tongues more than you all." . . . You read that as Paul being multilingual - I read it as Paul speaking in tongues, i.e manifesting the gift of holy Spirit which is within the context of 1 Cor. 12-14.
Yes, Paul did say that 1 Cor. 14:19 but he also said that he spake with tongues more than all of them.
I would that you all spake with tongues, but rather that you prophesied: for greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks with tongues, EXCEPT (unless) he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 1 Cor. 14:5
if any man speak in an tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course (in order); and let one interpret. 1 Cor. 14:27
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Cor. 14:39,40
1Corinthians 12
in full context
1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Many Members, One Body
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also isChrist. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole werehearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely partshave more abundant comeliness. 24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Spiritual Gifts
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent w
in full context
1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Many Members, One Body
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also isChrist. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole werehearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely partshave more abundant comeliness. 24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Spiritual Gifts
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent w
The gifts and provisions for our walk as believers on earth cease when we are gone from here. You make this an either / or issue when theee issue is always Christ. No one but you are proclaiming love for the provision more than love for the Savoir. I see this all the time when Christians who do not have a certain blessing get annoyed at those who do. Whether it be the blessings of healing or money or gifts of the Spirit. It is God Who gives the gifts and the blessings. And He does it based on the goodness of His Son not on our goodness.
Judging one another for the gifts or lack of the gift is both wrong. As one believer said this morning in one of these threads .,.. IT'S TIME FOR US TO GROW UP!!!