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B
you have all been conned
I defy you to show me from the New Testament where the Church is required to give 10%.
Show you where a church is required??????????????????????????????
Conned?????????????????????????????????????????????
The Church is required to pay Bills,and its more than 10%, we are the many membered body, and if we want to keep going to and learning from the CHURCH, WE need to help the church, by tithing, love offering, helping in some way.
Is all of your Post Smoke GreatKraw,
"In His Service"
I defy you to show me from the New Testament where the Church is required to give 10%.
Show you where a church is required??????????????????????????????
Conned?????????????????????????????????????????????
The Church is required to pay Bills,and its more than 10%, we are the many membered body, and if we want to keep going to and learning from the CHURCH, WE need to help the church, by tithing, love offering, helping in some way.
Is all of your Post Smoke GreatKraw,
"In His Service"
T
I can see how some of you are totally confused.
Tithing is NOT giving. There is NO sowing when you tithe. Sowing comes when you GIVE.
Tithing was defined BY GOD to be a tenth of crops and animals. Yet some of you must think you know BETTER than God, because YOU have decided that a tenth of your income is His tithe.
As a Certified Money & Finance Minister, I teach GIVING from the heart. Under the New Testament we are to be GENERAL, SACRIFICIAL givers. That means for some, that will be less than ten percent. For others, INCLUDING MYSELF, that means MUCH MORE than ten percent.
Under the New Testament we are to give 100% of ourselves to God.
But when it comes to money, we are to give ACCORDING TO OUR MEANS. The wealthy and well-to-do love tithing because they feel they have done their part when they give ten percent of their income, and then maybe a little more. The problem is, God may see it that they are keeping too much for themselves. Maybe some should be giving more that 50% or more of their income. Yet the poor may not be able to give anywhere near ten percent and still have enough left for food and medicine.
STICK WITH THE BIBLE. Malachi is addressed to the PRIESTS. Robbing God was WITHHOLDING or STEALING the tithe FROM THE LEVITES. Anyone who takes God's tithe to the church rather than to a Levites is considered ROBBING GOD under Malachi 3.
Those who THINK they are paying The Lord's Tithe are only fooling themselves. Actually, the pastor has fooled all those who THINK they are paying the Biblical tithe.
IT'S A CON. Support the church by free-will offerings. Be a generous giver. BUT STOP INSULTING GOD BY CALLING A TENTH OF YOUR INCOME HIS TITHE. God's tithe came from GOD'S INCREASE, not man's income. THAT'S WHY IT WAS HOLY.
Tithing is NOT giving. There is NO sowing when you tithe. Sowing comes when you GIVE.
Tithing was defined BY GOD to be a tenth of crops and animals. Yet some of you must think you know BETTER than God, because YOU have decided that a tenth of your income is His tithe.
As a Certified Money & Finance Minister, I teach GIVING from the heart. Under the New Testament we are to be GENERAL, SACRIFICIAL givers. That means for some, that will be less than ten percent. For others, INCLUDING MYSELF, that means MUCH MORE than ten percent.
Under the New Testament we are to give 100% of ourselves to God.
But when it comes to money, we are to give ACCORDING TO OUR MEANS. The wealthy and well-to-do love tithing because they feel they have done their part when they give ten percent of their income, and then maybe a little more. The problem is, God may see it that they are keeping too much for themselves. Maybe some should be giving more that 50% or more of their income. Yet the poor may not be able to give anywhere near ten percent and still have enough left for food and medicine.
STICK WITH THE BIBLE. Malachi is addressed to the PRIESTS. Robbing God was WITHHOLDING or STEALING the tithe FROM THE LEVITES. Anyone who takes God's tithe to the church rather than to a Levites is considered ROBBING GOD under Malachi 3.
Those who THINK they are paying The Lord's Tithe are only fooling themselves. Actually, the pastor has fooled all those who THINK they are paying the Biblical tithe.
IT'S A CON. Support the church by free-will offerings. Be a generous giver. BUT STOP INSULTING GOD BY CALLING A TENTH OF YOUR INCOME HIS TITHE. God's tithe came from GOD'S INCREASE, not man's income. THAT'S WHY IT WAS HOLY.
C
what is a certified money and finance minister, is that part of the five fold ministry of Jesus??? To tithe is to GIVE, so in essence it is sowing, for what you sow into that is noble and just, one will reap a harvest, the greatest harvest is salvation. Its not just to keep the lights on, its to be a source to be used to outreach, via ministries that meet the needs of people in the community.
Our income is Gods, He owns everything anyway, He is our Lord, we are just stewards left to minister the provisions He provides for us in so many different ways to be a blessing. Tithes are biblical as far as im concerned, i don't feel conned or cheated as i give willingly into His Kingdom for the the Fathers will to be done on earth. When much is given more will be required of ones self in Gods economy.
He is Lord and Saviour not just Saviour, His will be done not mine.
Our income is Gods, He owns everything anyway, He is our Lord, we are just stewards left to minister the provisions He provides for us in so many different ways to be a blessing. Tithes are biblical as far as im concerned, i don't feel conned or cheated as i give willingly into His Kingdom for the the Fathers will to be done on earth. When much is given more will be required of ones self in Gods economy.
He is Lord and Saviour not just Saviour, His will be done not mine.
T
A Certified Money & Finance Minister is one who ministers about money and finances using the Bible as the basis.
Now, OPEN your Bible and find scripture to back up your beliefs that you are tithing as you should. IF you can't find the scriptures, maybe you have been taught wrong.
The scriptures for tithing are:
Leviticus 27:30-33 - Definition of God's tithe
Numbers 18 - Ordinances (instructions, commands) regarding God's tithe
Deuteronomy 14:22-27 – The Festival Tithe
Deuteronomy 14:28-29 – The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe
Matthew 23:23 - confirms that tithing was PAID, not given.
Hebrews 7:5,12,18 - confirms that tithing, along with the Levitical priesthood (Numbers 18), was disannulled.
Malachi 3 - God is referring to His ordinances (Numbers 18) which were disannulled, plus God is speaking to the priests, not the people.
Now, OPEN your Bible and find scripture to back up your beliefs that you are tithing as you should. IF you can't find the scriptures, maybe you have been taught wrong.
The scriptures for tithing are:
Leviticus 27:30-33 - Definition of God's tithe
Numbers 18 - Ordinances (instructions, commands) regarding God's tithe
Deuteronomy 14:22-27 – The Festival Tithe
Deuteronomy 14:28-29 – The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe
Matthew 23:23 - confirms that tithing was PAID, not given.
Hebrews 7:5,12,18 - confirms that tithing, along with the Levitical priesthood (Numbers 18), was disannulled.
Malachi 3 - God is referring to His ordinances (Numbers 18) which were disannulled, plus God is speaking to the priests, not the people.
C
Amen, God doesnt demand us to do anything, He much prefer we do it all for Him, from the heart. What one calls tithing is splitting hairs, its all just about giving, giving of ones self in all aspects of our life to the King of Kings. I dont give 10% of my income as a "tithe" i give in far more different areas of my life as well, i give out of my desire to see His kingdom grow and for Him to grow in me even more. Not i who lives but Christ who lives in me. Theology is just doctrines of man to me. Its what God puts on my heart to do i try to fulfill obediently. Giving at a church service i feel is for the edification of the body of Christ as a whole, not that i want anything out of it, Jesus gave His all for me, a wretched sinner to start with, yet counted it all joy to endure the death of the cross for me.
Its not about having knowledge of scriptures, its about the scriptures showing us to have the knowledge of Jesus Christ, to see things from His perspective, it was nothing for Him to give, and gave it all He did.
Biblical principle of anything, give and it will be given, lend to the poor, I will repay says the Lord, better to give than receive,give with a cheerful heart etc,,, thats the knowledge of Christ found thru scripture, not what they did over 2000 yrs ago
blessings
One of the first post had verses from the bible. I go by the bible. Its in there from begining to end. Remember Cain and Abel? You can start from there if you'd like. I stand on the word of God. Give with a happy heart. Its all being written down in a book. What you gave and how your heart was when you gave.
T
Just as I thought. YOU HAVE NO SCRIPTURE TO QUOTE.
NO ONE has given valid scripture to show that:
1 - God EVER commanded anyone to tithe on their income
2 - God EVER changed His command to take His tithe to the Levites
3 - God EVER gave the Christian Church permission to receive His tithe
I dare you to OPEN YOUR BIBLE and find scriptures to back up your claims. Otherwise, your words mean nothing to anyone who really studies the Bible.
ALL TALK. NO SHOW.
NO ONE has given valid scripture to show that:
1 - God EVER commanded anyone to tithe on their income
2 - God EVER changed His command to take His tithe to the Levites
3 - God EVER gave the Christian Church permission to receive His tithe
I dare you to OPEN YOUR BIBLE and find scriptures to back up your claims. Otherwise, your words mean nothing to anyone who really studies the Bible.
ALL TALK. NO SHOW.
C
what is it you are trying to achieve brother, i dont understand, do you have issues with people giving to His house, whether one calls it a tithe or not is of no consequense, really, for it is better to give than receive a wise man said - JESUS
Far better to study Jesus anyway, He is the way the truth the life we have
Far better to study Jesus anyway, He is the way the truth the life we have
T
I am trying to achieve Biblical accuracy.
The Lord's Tithe is NOT giving, it is a PAYMENT.
I believe in generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart.
To call a tenth of one's income The Lord's Tithe is an insult to God. I'm am trying to educate people to use the proper terms and stop insulting The Lord.
The Lord's Tithe is NOT giving, it is a PAYMENT.
I believe in generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart.
To call a tenth of one's income The Lord's Tithe is an insult to God. I'm am trying to educate people to use the proper terms and stop insulting The Lord.
C
with all due respect i understand now what your saying however God is big enough to overlook the insults, Jesus took more insults than any of us over the years,2010 and counting. Tithe,payment whatever, one thing we agree on is to be sacrificial towards His house and give. Ones salvation is not in jeopardy over it im sure.The focus should be on Jesus and the work of the cross in peoples lives, to take our eye off that just draws us unto strife and debate, that goes with anything theological i feel. Whole bible is written for our salvation, OT the law and the sin it exposes to the NT the redeemtion made to us thru Jesus.....
Love you bro
T
And I agree, but Christians need to pay attention to words. Words are powerful. The following is just to show how man has changed the definition of what tithing means.
DEFINITION OF THE WORD TITHE – from Strongs Hebrew Dictionary
A tenth, tenth part
That’s it. The word tithe is a mathematical term and nothing else. The word has nothing to do with God, giving to God, paying to God. Therefore, when reading Genesis regarding Abraham and Jacob, the word tithe is a mathematical term only.
DEFINITION OF THE LORD’S TITHE – Leviticus 27:30-33
God, Himself, defined His tithe. This is the ONLY tithe that God claimed “is the Lord’s.”
30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.
32And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
In other words, God defined His tithe as coming from ONLY crops and animals.
DEFINITION OF THE FESTIVAL TITHE – Deuteronomy 14:22-27
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
In verse 23 The Word adds, “the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks,” but notice, NOT a tenth of thy herds and flocks.
DEFINITION OF THE THREE-YEAR TITHE aka THE POOR TITHE – Deuteronomy 14:28-29
28At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates
MAN’S DEFINITION OF THE TITHE – from made-made dictionaries
MacMillan's Modern Dictionary - 1938 edition: Tithe - tenth part, or any small part, of produce, profits, or the like paid as a tax or as a voluntary contribution, esp. for religion or charitable use.
The American Heritage Dictionary, Third Edition - 1994: Tithe - A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary - latest edition: Tithe - a tenth part of something paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax especially for the support of a religious establishment.
As you can see, just since 1938 the definition has changed from a tenth part of produce or profits, to a tenth part of one's annual income, to a tenth part of something and all three definitions include something to do with the support of the church or a religious establishment.
It is important to know what the meaning of a word was WHEN THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN. Since definitions change over time, we can come to a totally wrong understanding of what scripture really means unless we do proper research and study.
DEFINITION OF THE WORD TITHE – from Strongs Hebrew Dictionary
A tenth, tenth part
That’s it. The word tithe is a mathematical term and nothing else. The word has nothing to do with God, giving to God, paying to God. Therefore, when reading Genesis regarding Abraham and Jacob, the word tithe is a mathematical term only.
DEFINITION OF THE LORD’S TITHE – Leviticus 27:30-33
God, Himself, defined His tithe. This is the ONLY tithe that God claimed “is the Lord’s.”
30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.
32And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
In other words, God defined His tithe as coming from ONLY crops and animals.
DEFINITION OF THE FESTIVAL TITHE – Deuteronomy 14:22-27
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
In verse 23 The Word adds, “the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks,” but notice, NOT a tenth of thy herds and flocks.
DEFINITION OF THE THREE-YEAR TITHE aka THE POOR TITHE – Deuteronomy 14:28-29
28At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates
MAN’S DEFINITION OF THE TITHE – from made-made dictionaries
MacMillan's Modern Dictionary - 1938 edition: Tithe - tenth part, or any small part, of produce, profits, or the like paid as a tax or as a voluntary contribution, esp. for religion or charitable use.
The American Heritage Dictionary, Third Edition - 1994: Tithe - A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary - latest edition: Tithe - a tenth part of something paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax especially for the support of a religious establishment.
As you can see, just since 1938 the definition has changed from a tenth part of produce or profits, to a tenth part of one's annual income, to a tenth part of something and all three definitions include something to do with the support of the church or a religious establishment.
It is important to know what the meaning of a word was WHEN THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN. Since definitions change over time, we can come to a totally wrong understanding of what scripture really means unless we do proper research and study.
C
the tithe you mention about giving to the Levites is from the law of Moses, we walk in the Abrahamic covenant where Abraham gave a tenth out of not the law but by faith, for Abraham is the father of our faith, two disctintly different aspects to tithing. I agree with you about the law and what it says about tithes going to the Levites as not warranted no longer with the new covenant we walk in, yet I see that abraham set us the parameters of our faith by his walk with God, ultimately Jesus is the prime example we have and follow in our walk.
Love you
blessings
Love you
blessings
T
There is nothing to support your claim that Abraham tithed out of faith.
The first time tithe is mentioned in the Bible is Abraham's tithe of pagan spoils of war, and Abraham kept NOTHING for himself. This was NOT an act of worship. The goods that Abraham gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abraham:
Genesis 14:21 (NIV) - The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”
Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abraham if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him and those he represented.
Genesis 14:22-24 (NIV) - 22But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath 23that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the thong of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ 24I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshcol and Mamre. Let them have their share.”
Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abraham also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom and those he represented.
Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abraham acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abraham, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abraham did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abraham's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abraham not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.
Conclusion: Abraham did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him. That is NOT an example for Christians to follow today.
To follow Abraham's example, you must:
1 - give a tenth of other people's property
2 - give a tenth ONLY ONE TIME
3 - keep NOTHING for yourself
The first time tithe is mentioned in the Bible is Abraham's tithe of pagan spoils of war, and Abraham kept NOTHING for himself. This was NOT an act of worship. The goods that Abraham gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abraham:
Genesis 14:21 (NIV) - The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”
Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abraham if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him and those he represented.
Genesis 14:22-24 (NIV) - 22But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath 23that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the thong of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ 24I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshcol and Mamre. Let them have their share.”
Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abraham also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom and those he represented.
Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abraham acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abraham, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abraham did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abraham's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abraham not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.
Conclusion: Abraham did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him. That is NOT an example for Christians to follow today.
To follow Abraham's example, you must:
1 - give a tenth of other people's property
2 - give a tenth ONLY ONE TIME
3 - keep NOTHING for yourself
T
Yes, The Lord's Tithe was ALL ABOUT GOD.
But as soon as you cheapen God's tithe by calling a tenth of your income His tithe, it now becomes ALL ABOUT MAN.
The Lord's Tithe WAS all about God because the tithe came from the miraculous increase from God, NEVER from anything that God made or earned. Is that so hard to understand?
Is is that hard to understand that you and I cannot earn a Holy Tithe by our labor?
Is is that hard to understand that God now wants 100% of us, and that He looks to our hearts when we give?
Is is that hard to understand, or is it that some have been so indoctrinated into false teachings from church leaders that they no longer hear the truth?
All of the following well-known scholars agree that tithing ENDED AT THE CROSS, and that there is NO tithing in the Christian Church.
Scholars at the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary who published their report on tithing in 2005, John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, J. Vernon McGee, Robert Baker (chief SBC historian), Dr. David Croteau and Dr. Russell Kelly (both of whom wrote their thesis on tithing to get their Ph.D.), Phillip Schaff (historian), Alfred Edersheim, James W. Winfree Ministries, C. I. Scofield, Craig Blomberg (Denver Seminary), Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Fuller Theological Seminary), Charles Ryrie (Dallas Theological Seminary), Walter A. Elwell (Wheaton College), Theodore H. Epp (founder Back to the Bible), Gary Friesen (former Dean of Multinomah College), Scholars at the Dallas Theological Seminary, Dalls Theological Seminary, Talbot Bible College, and the list goes on and on.
But as soon as you cheapen God's tithe by calling a tenth of your income His tithe, it now becomes ALL ABOUT MAN.
The Lord's Tithe WAS all about God because the tithe came from the miraculous increase from God, NEVER from anything that God made or earned. Is that so hard to understand?
Is is that hard to understand that you and I cannot earn a Holy Tithe by our labor?
Is is that hard to understand that God now wants 100% of us, and that He looks to our hearts when we give?
Is is that hard to understand, or is it that some have been so indoctrinated into false teachings from church leaders that they no longer hear the truth?
All of the following well-known scholars agree that tithing ENDED AT THE CROSS, and that there is NO tithing in the Christian Church.
Scholars at the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary who published their report on tithing in 2005, John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, J. Vernon McGee, Robert Baker (chief SBC historian), Dr. David Croteau and Dr. Russell Kelly (both of whom wrote their thesis on tithing to get their Ph.D.), Phillip Schaff (historian), Alfred Edersheim, James W. Winfree Ministries, C. I. Scofield, Craig Blomberg (Denver Seminary), Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Fuller Theological Seminary), Charles Ryrie (Dallas Theological Seminary), Walter A. Elwell (Wheaton College), Theodore H. Epp (founder Back to the Bible), Gary Friesen (former Dean of Multinomah College), Scholars at the Dallas Theological Seminary, Dalls Theological Seminary, Talbot Bible College, and the list goes on and on.