Is tithing our 10%of income part of being a Christian?

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#61
I think that the Bible calls us to give to God, most definitely, but of our hearts. The 10% isn't mandatory, in my mind, according to this verse: "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." 2 Corinthians 9:7
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
1
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#62

hi I just wanted to give opatunaty for some who might be interested to read a detailed view for saporting tithing non new testament principle by russ kelly

ESSAY
TITHING IS NOT A CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE
www.tithing-russkelly.com
www.shouldthechurchteachtithing.us
[email protected]
May 17, 2010​

Introduction
[FONT=Times
 New Roman]The following essay is a summary of Should the Church Teach Tithing? A Theologian’s Conclusions about a Taboo Doctrine,
The book is an expansion of my Ph.D. thesis. I encourage Bible educators to be bold, to open up seminary level research and to promote studies on this subject in the Masters, Doctorate and Ph.D. levels. This doctrine is simply too important to ignore.
In many churches today the doctrine of tithing has reached the level of a modern scandal. While on the one hand most seminary-level textbooks on systematic theology and hermeneutics by theologians omit tithing, on the other hand the practice is quickly becoming a requirement for church membership in the very denominations which insist on solid Bible-based doctrines. Lay persons who question New Covenant tithing are increasingly criticized and ignored as being troublemakers or weak Christians. Christian leaders should always be open and available to discuss God’s Word. Failure suggests doubt and insecurity.
Modern Tithing is Based on Many False Assumptions

One major denomination’s statement on stewardship is typical. "Tithing is the minimum biblical standard and the beginning point which God has established that must not be replaced or compromised by any other standard." It adds that the tithe is from gross income which is due to the church before taxes.
This essay contrasts the false teachings used to support tithing with God’s Word. (Book chapters in parenthesis.)
Point #1: Christian Giving Principles: New Covenant Giving Principles are Superior. (Ch. 26, 27)

The false teaching is that tithing is a divine mandatory expectation which always must precede free-will giving.

Christians are commanded to give freely, sacrificially, generously, regularly, joyfully and with the motivation of love for God and man. The following New Covenant free-will principles are found in Second Corinthians 8 and 9: (1) Giving is a "grace.” These chapters use the Greek word for "grace" eight times in reference to helping needy saints. (2) Give yourself to God first (8:5). (3) Give yourself to knowing God’s will (8:5). (4) Give in response to Christ’s gift (8:9; 9:15). (5) Give out of a sincere desire (8:8, 10, 12; 9:7). (6) Do not give because of any commandment (8:8, 10; 9:7). (7) Give beyond your ability (8:3, 11-12). (8) Give to produce equality. This means that those who have more should give more in order to make up for the inability of those who cannot afford to give as much (8:12-14). (9) Give joyfully (8:2). (10) Give because you are growing spiritually (8:3-4, 7). (11) Give because you want to continue growing spiritually (9:8, 10-11). (12) Give because you are hearing the gospel preached (9:13).
Point #2: Defining Tithe: In God’s Word the Holy Tithe was Always Only Food from Inside Israel! (Chapter 1)

The false teaching is that holy biblical tithes include ALL sources of income.

DEFINITION: True biblical holy tithes were always only food from the holy farms and herds of Israelites who lived inside God’s holy land, the national boundary of Israel.
In God’s Word tithe does not stand alone. Although money existed before tithing, the source of God's holy tithe over 1500 years was never money. It was the holy tithe of food and the increase was gathered from what God miraculously produced from His holy land and not from man's craft or ability. No tithes could come from Gentiles or unclean pagan lands.
There are 16 verses from 11 chapters and 8 books from Leviticus 27 to Luke 11 which describe the contents of the holy tithe. And those contents never included money, silver, gold or anything other than food from inside Israel! Yet the incorrect definition of tithe is the greatest error being preached about tithing today! Lev 27:30, 32; Num 18:27-28; Deu 12:17; 14:22-23; 26:12; 2 Chron 31:5-6; Neh 10:37; 13:5; Mal 3:10-11; Matt 23:23; Luke 11:42.
Point #3: Money: Money was an Essential but Non-Tithed Item. (Chapter 1)

The false assumption is that food barter usually replaced money.

One argument to support non-food tithing is that money was not universally available and barter from food was used for most transactions. This argument is neither biblical nor historical. Genesis alone contains money in 32 texts and the word occurs 44 times before the holy tithe is described in Leviticus 27. Gold is in Genesis 2:12. The words jewelry, gold, silver and shekel also appear often from Genesis to Deuteronomy.
Abram was very rich in silver and gold (Gen 13:2); money in the form of silver shekels paid for slaves (Gen 17:12+); Abimelech gave Abraham 1000 pieces of silver (Gen 20:16); Abraham paid 400 pieces of silver for land (Gen 23:9-16); Joseph was sold for silver pieces (Gen 37:28); slaves bought freedom (Lev 25:47-53). Court fines (Ex 21 all; 22 all), sanctuary dues (Ex 30:12+), vows (Lev 27:3-7), poll taxes (Num 3:47+), alcoholic drinks (Deu 14:26) and marriage dowries (Deu 22:29) included money.
Joseph gave Benjamin 300 pieces of silver (Gen 45:22). According to Genesis 47:15-17 food was used for barter only after money had been spent. Banking and usury laws exist in Leviticus even before tithing. Therefore the argument is false. Yet the holy contents from Leviticus to Luke never include money from non-food products and trades.
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pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
1
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#63
Point #4: Genesis 14:20: Abram’s Tithe to Melchizedek Reflected the Law of the Land. (Chapters 2, 3)

The false teaching is that Abraham freely gave tithes because it was God’s will.

Scores of reputable secular history books document the existence of spoils of war tithing from Babylon to Egypt before Abraham’s time. For the following reasons, Abram’s pre-circumcision tithe in Genesis 14:20 cannot be used as an example for Christians to tithe (17:5). (1) The Bible does not say that Abram "freely" gave this tithe. (2) Abram’s gift was NOT a holy tithe from God’s holy land gathered by God’s holy people under God’s holy Old Covenant. (3) Abram’s tithe was clearly only from pagan spoils of war and was required in many nations as the law of the land. (4) In Numbers 31:21-31, God only required 1% of spoils of war as an ordinance. (5) Abram’s tithe to the priest-king Melchizedek was a one-time recorded event. (6) Abram’s tithe was not from his previously owned personal property. (7) Abram kept nothing for himself; he gave everything back. (8) Abram’s tithe is not quoted anywhere in the Bible to endorse tithing from Israel or from the church. (9) Genesis 14, verse 21, is the key text. Since most commentaries explain verse 21 as an example of pagan Arab law, it is contradictory to explain the 90% of verse 21 as pagan, while insisting that the 10% of verse 20 was obedience to God’s will. (10) If Abraham is an example for Christians to give 10% to God, then he should also be an example for Christians to give the other 90% to Satan, or to the king of Sodom! (11) As priests themselves, neither Abraham nor Jacob had a Levitical priesthood to support; they probably left food for the poor at their altars to Yahweh.
Point #5: No Minimum Principle: Tithing was not a Minimum Requirement from All Israelites. (Chapter 1)

The false teaching is that everybody was required to begin their giving level at ten per cent.

Only those Israelites who earned a livelihood from farming and herding inside holy Israel were required to tithe under the Mosaic Law. Their increase came from God’s hand. Those whose increase came from their own crafts and skills were not required to tithe products and money.
Point #6: Levite Assistants: First-Tithes were Received by Servants to the Priests. (Chapter 4)

The false teaching is that Old Testament priests received all of the first Levitical tithe.

The whole tithe, the first Levitical tithe, did not go to the priests at all. It was not even the best tenth (Lev 27:33). According to Numbers 18:21-24 and Nehemiah 10:37b, it went to the servants of the priests, the Levites. And according to Numbers 18:25-28 and Nehemiah 10:38, the Levites gave the best tenth of this tithe (1%) to the priests who ministered the sin sacrifices. Priests were expected to give freewill vow offerings –not tithes (Mal 1:13-14).
Point #7: Levitical Tithe-Recipients Could Not Own Property. (Chapter 6)

The false assumption today is that preachers can both receive tithes and also own property.

In exchange for receiving tithes, both Levites and priests forfeited all rights to permanent land inheritance inside Israel (Num 18:20-26; Deu 12:12; 14:27, 29; 18:1, 2; Josh 13:14, 33; 14:3; 18:7; Eze 44:28). Even if tithes were New Covenant they would first go to the ordinary workers who assist the preachers and maintain the buildings.
Point #8: Holy And Most Holy: It is Holy to the LORD Does Not Make Tithing an Eternal Moral Principle.

The false teaching is that Leviticus 27:30-34 proves that the tithe is an eternal moral principle because it is holy to the LORD.

The phrases it is HOLY unto the LORD and it is MOST HOLY unto the LORD are very common in Leviticus. However, almost every other use of these two phrases in Leviticus has long ago been discarded by Christians. These phrases are used to describe all the festivals, the sacrificial offerings, the clean foods, the old covenant priests and the old covenant sanctuary. Especially read verses 28 and 29 in chapter 27.
While the tithe of the tithe (1%) which was given to the priests was the best of what the Levites received, the tithe which the Levites received was only one tenth and not the best (Lev 27:33).
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
1
16
#64
<H1 style="MARGIN: 6pt 0in 0pt">Point #9: First-Fruits: First-fruits are Not the Same as Tithes. (Chapter 1)

The false assumption is that tithes are first-fruits.

The first-fruit was a very small token amount of the first crop harvest and the first-born was the first offspring of animals. First-fruits and first-born could only come from inside God&#8217;s holy land of Israel.
The first-fruit was small enough to fit into a hand-held basket (Deu 26:1-10; Lev 23:17; Num 18:13-17; Neh 12:44; 2 Chron 31:5a).
First-fruits and first-born offerings went directly to the Temple and were required to be totally consumed by ministering priests only inside the Temple (Neh 10:35-37a; Ex 23:19; 34:26; Deu 18:4).
The whole Levitical tithe went first to the Levitical cities and portions went to the Temple to feed both Levites and priests who were ministering there in rotation (Neh 10:37b-39; 12:27-29, 44-47; Num 18:21-28; 2 Chron 31:5b). While the Levites ate only the tithe, the priests could also eat from the first-fruits, first-born offerings and other offerings.
Point #10: Four Tithes: There are Four Different Tithes Described in the Bible. (Chapter 7)

The false teaching ignores all other tithes and focuses on an incorrect interpretation of the first religious tithe.

(1) The first religious tithe, called the Levitical tithe, had two parts. Again, the whole first tithe was given to the Levites who were only servants to the priests (Num 18:21-24; Neh 10:37b). The Levites, in turn, gave one tenth of the whole tithe to the priests (Num 18:25-28; Neh 10:38). (2) According to Deuteronomy 12 and 14, the second religious tithe, called the feast tithe, was eaten by worshipers in the streets of Jerusalem during the three yearly festivals (Deu 12:1-19; 14:22-26). (3) And, according to Deuteronomy 14 and 26, a third tithe, called the poor tithe, was kept in the towns every third year to feed the poor (Deu 14:28, 29; 26:12, 13). (4) Also, according to First Samuel 8:14-17, the ruler collected the first and best ten per cent for political use. During Jesus&#8217; time Rome collected the first ten per cent (10%) of most food and twenty per cent (20%) of fruit crops as its spoils of war. It is dishonest to single out the one religious tithe and ignore the other two important religious tithes.
Point #11: The Poor: Jesus, Peter, Paul and the Poor Did Not Tithe. (Chapter 9)

The false teaching is that everybody in the Old Testament was required to begin their giving to God at the ten per cent level.

The poor were not required to tithe at all! Neither did the tithe come from the results of man&#8217;s crafts, hands and skills. Only farmers and herdsmen gathered what God produced as tithe increase. Jesus was a carpenter; Paul was a tentmaker and Peter was a fisherman. None of these occupations qualified as tithe-payers because they did not farm or herd animals for a living. It is, therefore, incorrect to teach that everybody paid a required minimum of a tithe and, therefore, that New Covenant Christians should be required to at least begin at the same minimum as Old Covenant Israelites. This common false assumption is very often repeated and completely ignores the very plain definition of tithe as food gathered from farm increase or herd increase.
The widow&#8217;s mite is an example of free-will giving and is not an example of tithing. According to Edersheim none of the Temple&#8217;s chests were for tithes. The poor received money from those chests before leaving the temple.
It is also wrong to teach that the poor in Israel were required to pay tithes. In fact, they actually received tithes! Much of the second festival tithe and all of a special third-year tithe went to the poor! Many laws exempted the poor from abuse and expensive sacrifices which they could not afford (Lev 14:21; 25:6, 25-28, 35, 36; 27:8; Deu 12:1-19; 14:23, 28, 29; 15:7, 8, 11; 24:12, 14, 15, 19, 20; 26:11-13; Mal 3:5; Matt 12:1, 2; Mark 2:23, 24; Luke 2:22-24; 6:1, 2; 2 Cor 8:12-14; 1 Tim 5:8; Jas. 1:27).
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pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
1
16
#65
<H1 style="MARGIN: 6pt 0in 0pt">Point #12: Taxes: Tithes were Also Used as Political Taxes. (Chapter 10)

The false teaching is that tithes are never comparable to taxes or taxation.

In the Hebrew economy, the tithe was used in a totally different manner than it is preached today. Once again, those Levites who received the whole tithe were not even ministers or priests&#8212;they were only servants to the priests! Numbers chapter 3 describes the Levites as carpenters, metal workers, leather-craftsmen and artists who maintained the small sanctuary. And, according to First Chronicles, chapters 23 to26, during the time of King David and King Solomon, the Levites were still skilled craftsmen who performed and/or approved all work in the Temple: 24, 000 worked in the Temple as builders and supervisors; 6,000 were officials and judges; 4,000 were guards and 4,000 were musicians. As political representatives of the king, Levites used their tithe income to serve as officials, judges, tax collectors, treasurers, temple guards, musicians, bakers, singers and professional soldiers (1 Chron 12:23, 26; 23:2-5; 26:29-32; 27:5). It is obvious why these examples of using biblical tithe-income are never used as examples in the church today.
Tithes never stimulated Old Covenant Levites or priests to establish a single mission outreach or encourage a single Gentile to become an Israelite (Ex 23:32; 34:12, 15; Deu 7:2). Old Covenant tithing was motivated and mandated by Law, not love. In fact, during most of Israel&#8217;s history the prophets were God&#8217;s primary spokesmen &#8211; and not the tithe-receiving Levites and priests. Tithing failed! See Hebrews 7:12-19.
Point #13: Levitical Cities: Levitical Tithes were Usually Taken to the Levitical Cities. (Chapter 12)

False teachers want us to think that all tithes were formerly taken to the Temple and should now be taken to the "church storehouse&#8221; building.

Nehemiah 10:37b and Second Chronicles 31:15-19 make it clear that the people were to bring the tithes to the Levitical cities where 98% of the Levites and priests needed them for food (also Num 18:21-24). And Nehemiah 10:38 makes it clear that normally only Levites and priests had the task of bringing weekly tithes into the Temple (also Num 18:24-28).
The whole tithe NEVER went to the Temple! According to Numbers 35, Joshua 20, 21 and First Chronicles 6, Levites and priests lived on borrowed land where they farmed and raised (tithed) animals. (Also 2nd Chron 11:13-14; Neh 12:27-29; 13:10; Mal 1:14.)
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pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
1
16
#66
Point #14: Malachi: Malachi 3 is the Most Abused Tithing Text in the Bible. (Ch. 13a, 13b)

The false teaching about tithes from Malachi 3 ignores important Bible facts.

A. Context: Malachi is Old Covenant and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing (Lev 27:34; Neh 10:28-29; Mal 3:7; 4:4).
B. Context: In Malachi 3:10-11 tithes are still only food 1000 years after Leviticus 27.
C. Law: Malachi&#8217;s audience had willingly reaffirmed the Old Covenant (Neh 10:28-29). The blessings and curses of tithing are identical to and inseparable from those of the entire Mosaic Law. The rain in Deuteronomy 28:12, 23-24 and Leviticus 26:1-4 is only obtained by obedience to all 600+ commandments. Galatians 3:10 (quoting Deu 27:26) &#8220;For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.&#8221; Trying to earn God&#8217;s blessings through tithing only brought curses for failure to keep all of the law. See also Galatians 3:19.
D. Priest-Thieves: Beginning in 1:6 &#8220;you&#8221; in Malachi always refers to the dishonest priests and not the people (also 2:1-10; 2:13 to 3:1-5): &#8220;Even this whole nation of you&#8212;priests&#8221; (3:9). In 1:13-14 the priests had stolen tithed animals vowed to God. In Nehemiah 13:5-10 priests had stolen the Levites&#8217; portion of the tithe. God&#8217;s curses on the priests are ignored by most tithe-teachers (1:14; 2:2 and 3:2-4).
E. Levitical Cities: The Levitical cities must be included in a correct interpretation of Malachi 3:10 and they are not. Most tithe-recipients (98%) lived outside of Jerusalem.
F. Twenty-Four Courses: The 24 courses of Levites and priests must be included in a correct interpretation of Malachi 3 and they are not. Normally only 2% of the total Levite and priest work force served at the temple one week at a time. Subtract wives, males under the age of 30 and daughters. Therefore 2% did not require all the tithe. See 1 Chron 23-26; see also 28:13, 21; 2 Chron 8:14; 23:8; 31:2, 15-19; 35:4, 5, 10; Ezra 6:18; Neh 11:19, 30; 12:24; 13:9, 10; Luke 1:5.
G. Nehemiah 10:37b-39 is the key to understanding Malachi 3:10. The people were commanded to bring their tithes, not to the temple, but to the nearby Levitical cities. Verse 38 says that the priests were with the Levites in the Levitical cities when they received the tithes.
H. Storehouse: According to Nehemiah 13:5, 9 the &#8220;storehouse&#8221; in the Temple was only several rooms. The real &#8220;storehouses&#8221; were in the Levitical cites per Nehemiah 10:37b. Only the Levites and priests normally brought tithes to the Temple (10:38). Two rooms in the Temple were far too small to contain the tithe from the entire nation and 98% of the Levites and priests lived too far away to eat from them (1 Kg 6:6).
Therefore, Malachi 3:10&#8217;s &#8220;Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse&#8221; only makes contextual sense if it is only commanding dishonest priests to replace the tithes they had removed from it or had failed to bring to it.
While the 3:10 of the Law in Malachi is so important to tithe-teachers they ignore the 3:10 of the Gospel in Galatians and 2nd Corinthians. Perhaps those wanting to enforce the 3:10 Law of Malachi should also enforce the 3:10 Law of Numbers. They share the same context.
Point #15: Matthew 23:23: The New Covenant Does Not Teach Tithing. (Ch. 14, 16, 25)

The false teaching is that Jesus taught tithing in Matthew 23:23 which (they say) is clearly in the New Testament.

The New Covenant did not begin at the birth of Jesus, but at his death (Gal 3:19, 24, 25; 4:4, 5). Tithing is not taught to the church after the cross! When Jesus discussed tithing in Matthew 23:23, &#8220;you&#8221; referred to &#8220;you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites&#8221; who had made the Law a burden. Jesus endorsed and supported Old Covenant law until the cross. (Note &#8220;matters of the law&#8221; in 23:23). In Matthew 23:2 and 3 (the context of 23:23) Jesus told his Jewish followers to obey the scribes and Pharisees "because they sit in Moses&#8217; seat." Yet He did not (and could not) command Gentiles whom He healed to present themselves to the priests and obey the Law of Moses (compare Matt 5:23-24 and 8:4). And churches do not collect tithes from garden herbs as Jesus commanded.
There is not a single New Testament Bible text which teaches tithing after the cross! Acts 2:42-47 and 4:32-35 are not examples of tithing to support church leaders. According to 2:46 the Jewish Christians continued to worship in the Temple. And according to 2:44 and 4:33, 34 church leaders shared what they received equally with all church members. (This is not done today).
Finally Acts 21:20-25 proves that Jewish Christians were still zealously observing all of the Mosaic Law 30 years later &#8211;and that must include tithing&#8212;otherwise they would not have been allowed inside the Temple to worship. Therefore, any tithes collected by the early Jewish Christians were given to the Temple system and not to support the church.
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
1
16
#67
Point #14: Malachi: Malachi 3 is the Most Abused Tithing Text in the Bible. (Ch. 13a, 13b)

The false teaching about tithes from Malachi 3 ignores important Bible facts.

A. Context: Malachi is Old Covenant and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing (Lev 27:34; Neh 10:28-29; Mal 3:7; 4:4).
B. Context: In Malachi 3:10-11 tithes are still only food 1000 years after Leviticus 27.
C. Law: Malachi’s audience had willingly reaffirmed the Old Covenant (Neh 10:28-29). The blessings and curses of tithing are identical to and inseparable from those of the entire Mosaic Law. The rain in Deuteronomy 28:12, 23-24 and Leviticus 26:1-4 is only obtained by obedience to all 600+ commandments. Galatians 3:10 (quoting Deu 27:26) “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” Trying to earn God’s blessings through tithing only brought curses for failure to keep all of the law. See also Galatians 3:19.
D. Priest-Thieves: Beginning in 1:6 “you” in Malachi always refers to the dishonest priests and not the people (also 2:1-10; 2:13 to 3:1-5): “Even this whole nation of you—priests” (3:9). In 1:13-14 the priests had stolen tithed animals vowed to God. In Nehemiah 13:5-10 priests had stolen the Levites’ portion of the tithe. God’s curses on the priests are ignored by most tithe-teachers (1:14; 2:2 and 3:2-4).
E. Levitical Cities: The Levitical cities must be included in a correct interpretation of Malachi 3:10 and they are not. Most tithe-recipients (98%) lived outside of Jerusalem.
F. Twenty-Four Courses: The 24 courses of Levites and priests must be included in a correct interpretation of Malachi 3 and they are not. Normally only 2% of the total Levite and priest work force served at the temple one week at a time. Subtract wives, males under the age of 30 and daughters. Therefore 2% did not require all the tithe. See 1 Chron 23-26; see also 28:13, 21; 2 Chron 8:14; 23:8; 31:2, 15-19; 35:4, 5, 10; Ezra 6:18; Neh 11:19, 30; 12:24; 13:9, 10; Luke 1:5.
G. Nehemiah 10:37b-39 is the key to understanding Malachi 3:10. The people were commanded to bring their tithes, not to the temple, but to the nearby Levitical cities. Verse 38 says that the priests were with the Levites in the Levitical cities when they received the tithes.
H. Storehouse: According to Nehemiah 13:5, 9 the “storehouse” in the Temple was only several rooms. The real “storehouses” were in the Levitical cites per Nehemiah 10:37b. Only the Levites and priests normally brought tithes to the Temple (10:38). Two rooms in the Temple were far too small to contain the tithe from the entire nation and 98% of the Levites and priests lived too far away to eat from them (1 Kg 6:6).
Therefore, Malachi 3:10’s “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” only makes contextual sense if it is only commanding dishonest priests to replace the tithes they had removed from it or had failed to bring to it.
While the 3:10 of the Law in Malachi is so important to tithe-teachers they ignore the 3:10 of the Gospel in Galatians and 2nd Corinthians. Perhaps those wanting to enforce the 3:10 Law of Malachi should also enforce the 3:10 Law of Numbers. They share the same context.
Point #15: Matthew 23:23: The New Covenant Does Not Teach Tithing. (Ch. 14, 16, 25)

The false teaching is that Jesus taught tithing in Matthew 23:23 which (they say) is clearly in the New Testament.

The New Covenant did not begin at the birth of Jesus, but at his death (Gal 3:19, 24, 25; 4:4, 5). Tithing is not taught to the church after the cross! When Jesus discussed tithing in Matthew 23:23, “you” referred to “you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites” who had made the Law a burden. Jesus endorsed and supported Old Covenant law until the cross. (Note “matters of the law” in 23:23). In Matthew 23:2 and 3 (the context of 23:23) Jesus told his Jewish followers to obey the scribes and Pharisees "because they sit in Moses’ seat." Yet He did not (and could not) command Gentiles whom He healed to present themselves to the priests and obey the Law of Moses (compare Matt 5:23-24 and 8:4). And churches do not collect tithes from garden herbs as Jesus commanded.
There is not a single New Testament Bible text which teaches tithing after the cross! Acts 2:42-47 and 4:32-35 are not examples of tithing to support church leaders. According to 2:46 the Jewish Christians continued to worship in the Temple. And according to 2:44 and 4:33, 34 church leaders shared what they received equally with all church members. (This is not done today).
Finally Acts 21:20-25 proves that Jewish Christians were still zealously observing all of the Mosaic Law 30 years later –and that must include tithing—otherwise they would not have been allowed inside the Temple to worship. Therefore, any tithes collected by the early Jewish Christians were given to the Temple system and not to support the church.
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
1
16
#68
Point #16: Priesthood Of Believers: Old Covenant Priests were Replaced by All-Believer-Priests. (Ch. 20, 21)

The false teaching is that New Covenant elders and pastors are continuing where the Old Covenant priests left off and are due the tithe.

Compare Exodus 19:5-6 with First Peter 2: 9-10. Before the incident of the golden calves, God had intended for every Israelite to become a priest and tithing would have never been enacted. Priests did not tithe but received one tenth of the first tithe (Num 18:26-28; Neh 10:37, 38).
The function and purpose of Old Covenant priests were replaced, not by elders and pastors, but by the priesthood of every believer. Like other ordinances of the Law, tithing was only a temporary shadow until Christ (Eph 2:14-16; Col 2:13-17; Heb 7:18; 10:1). In the New Covenant every believer is a priest to God (1 Pet 2:9-10; Rev 1:6; 5:10). And, as a priest, every believer offers sacrifices to God (Heb 4:16; 10:19-22; 13:15, 16). Therefore, every ordinance which had previously applied to the old priesthood was blotted out at the cross. Since Jesus was not from the tribe of Levi, even He was disqualified. Thus the original temporary purpose of tithing no longer exists (Heb 7:12-19; Gal 3:19, 24-25; 2 Cor 3:10-18).
Point #17: Church Assembly: The New Covenant Church is Neither a Building nor a Storehouse. (Ch. 13, 23)

The false teaching is that Christian buildings called "churches," "tabernacles" or "temples" replaced the OT Temple as God&#8217;s dwelling places.

God&#8217;s Word never describes New Covenant churches as literal &#8220;tabernacles," "temples" or "buildings" in which God dwells! God&#8217;s church, God&#8217;s dwelling place, is within the believers. Believers do not "go to church"&#8212;believers &#8220;assemble to worship.&#8221; Also, since OT priests did not pay tithes, then tithing cannot logically continue. Therefore it is wrong to call a building "God&#8217;s storehouse" for tithes. (1 Cor 3:16-17; 6:19-20; Eph 1:22-23; 2:21; 4:12-16; Rev 3:12). For "storehouse" compare 1 Corinthians 16:2 with 2 Corinthians 12:14 and Acts 20:17, 32-35. For several centuries after Calvary Christians did not even have their own buildings (to call storehouses) because Christianity was an outlaw religion.
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
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#69
Point #18 Better Principles: The Church Grows by Using Better New Covenant Principles. (Ch. 17, 19, 27)

The false teaching implies that principles of grace giving are not as good as Old Covenant principles of giving.

Under the New Covenant: (1) According to Galatians 5:16-23, there is no physical law which controls the fruits of the Holy Spirit. (2) Second Corinthians 3:10 says that the Old Covenant has "no glory" when compared to the "surpassing" glory and liberty of the Holy Spirit. (3) Hebrews 7 is the only post-Calvary mention of tithing and it is an explanation of why the Levitical priesthood must be replaced by Christ&#8217;s priesthood because it was weak and unprofitable. Study Hebrews 7 and follow the progression from verse 5 to verse 12 to verse 19. (4) The manner in which tithing is taught today reflects a failure of the church to believe and act on the far better principles of love, grace and faith. Mandatory giving principles cannot, has not and will not prosper the church more than principles guided by love for Christ and lost souls (2 Cor 8:7-8).
Point #19: Paul Preferred Self-Support. (Chapters 22, 28)

The false teaching is that Paul taught and practiced tithing.

As a Jewish rabbi, Paul was among those who insisted on working to support himself (Acts 18:3; 1 Thes 2:9-10; 2 Thes 3:8-14). While Paul does not condemn those who are able to receive full-time support, neither does he teach that full-time support is the mandatory will of God for advancing the gospel (1 Cor 9:12). In fact, twice, in Acts 20:29-35 and also in 2 Corinthians 12:14, Paul actually encouraged church elders to work to support needy believers inside the church.
For Paul, living of the gospel meant living by gospel principles of faith, love and grace (1 Cor 9:14). While Paul realized that he had a right to some support, he concluded that his liberty, or freedom to preach unhindered was more important in order to fulfill his calling from God (1 Cor 9:12, 15; 2 Cor 11:7-13; 12:13-14; 1 Thes 2:5-6). While working as a tent-maker, Paul accepted limited support but boasted that his pay, or salary, was that he could preach the gospel for free, without being a burden to others (1 Cor 9:16-19). Most young preachers today do not want to follow this example given by Paul.
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
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#70
Point #20: Tithing Did Not Become A Law in The Church Until A. D. 777. (Chapters 22, 29, 30)

The false teaching is that the historical church has always taught tithing.

The earliest Christian assemblies patterned themselves after the Jewish synagogues which were led by rabbis who, like Paul, refused to gain a profit from preaching and teaching God&#8217;s Word. There are many books on Jewish social life which explain this in great detail.
From Christ&#8217;s death until Christianity became a legally recognized religion almost 300 years later, the majority of great church leaders took self-imposed vows of poverty. This is historically documented! They took Jesus&#8217; words to the rich young ruler in Luke 18:22 literally &#8220;sell all that you have, give it to the poor, and follow me.&#8221; Most church historians agree that these early church leaders for at least the first 200 years worked for a living and were self-supporting. A Christian leader could not tell a Roman census-taker that he was a full-time preacher of an outlaw religion.
Clement of Rome (c95), Justin Martyr (c150), Irenaeus (c150-200) and Tertullian (c150-220) all opposed tithing as a strictly Jewish tradition. The Didache (c150-200) condemns traveling apostles who stay longer than three days and ask for money. And travelers who decided to remain with them were required to learn a trade. These early opponents of tithing are not quoted by tithe-teachers.
Cyprian (200-258) tried unsuccessfully to impose tithing in Carthage, North Africa around A. D. 250. At his conversion Cyprian gave away great wealth to the poor and lived under a vow of poverty. His idea of tithing included equal re-distribution to the poor. And &#8211;we must remember&#8212;his ideas of tithing were not adopted.
When tithe-teachers quote Ambrose, Chrysostom and Augustine as church fathers they conveniently leave out the first 200 years of church history. Even after Christianity became legal in the fourth century many of the greatest spiritual leaders took vows of deep poverty and preferred to live unmarried lives in monasteries. If these tithe-teachers are quoted, then the church should also be told what kind of lives they usually led.
While disagreeing with their own theologians, most church historians write that tithing did not become a legally enforced doctrine in the church for over 700 years after the cross. According to the very best sources it took over 500 years before a local church Council of Macon in France, in the year 585, tried unsuccessfully to enforce tithing on its members. It was not until the year 777 that Charlemagne legally allowed the church to collect tithes. That is the history of tithing found in the Encyclopedia Britannica, Encyclopedia Americana and the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia.
Point #21. Hermeneutics

Tithe-teachers use their own blended pick-and-choose principles which are extremely inconsistent. They reject the basic Covenant principles of Calvin which discard tithing as part of the worship statutes. They also reject basic Dispensation principles which discard the entire Mosaic Law unless it is repeated to the Church in terms of grace. They attempt to teach that the whole Law is still in effect in order to include tithing and then discard almost everything except tithing. While quoting Matthew 5:17-18 they ignore 5:19 and the context of 5:20-48, which is an illustration of the whole law. Yet 5:17-18 demands either all of the Law of Moses or none of it in the Old Covenant context. The tithe-teachers blended compromise is a modern scandal of God&#8217;s Word. (Chapters 18, 26, 30)
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
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#71
thanks guys I know there are a lot of posts from me here though I hope you enjoyed reading them.
 
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BestBeWishing

Guest
#72
thanks guys I know there are a lot of posts from me here though I hope you enjoyed reading them.
So what do we do when the Lights get turned off at Church??? because nobody helps??

come to your House???

So dont suport our Churches and go to Pagie House where the lights will allways be on "thats Great"

I'm sick
 
B

BestBeWishing

Guest
#73
Giving a portion of what we earn to a church is called tithing. It is a sacrifice that Christians make for the sake of the church and the community. It is also a means to thank the Lord for his blessings. Tithing enables the church to function as one body in God, extending a helping hand to those in need and financing the ministry of the church.
Significance
Deuteronomy 14:22-29 tells us that giving the first of our earnings keeps God as number one in our lives. It is also a way of reminding us that all we have is through Him and that regular tithing keeps God as our first priority. The Lord's commandment to give to Him the first of our earnings is not meant as a punishment. It is God's way of ensuring that the faithful support one another in His work within the community itself.
Effects
"God loves a cheerful giver," 2 Corinthians 9:7 says. Your attitude to give cheerfully is more important than the amount you give. In 2 Corinthians 8:11 we are told, "...your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it, according to your means." Jesus became poorer by giving up his divine status to become human so that we could be saved. "...that though he was rich, yet for our sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich" it says in 2 Corinthians 8:9. We, likewise, should be willing to "become poor" so that we may be rewarded with the richness of God's love and mercy.
Potential
Tithing supports the church that ministers to the spiritual needs of the community. In Numbers 18:25-26, the Lord commands that even the ministers of the church must return to the church, and to God, a portion of their income. "You must present as the Lord's portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you" (18:29). Tithing benefits all in the community. "When you present the best part, it will be reckoned to you..." (18:30).
Benefits
The benefits of tithing are laid out In 2 Corinthians 9. Tithing supplies the needs of God's people, it expresses thanks to God for His grace and mercy, and it allows others to pray for you. As you bless others, you will also be blessed.
Warning
We are called to give what is in our means to give. We should not, however, be miserly with our gift. "Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously," we are told in 2 Corinthians 8:6. The Lord expects us to tithe with good intentions in our hearts and only what we can afford to give. But the more we are able to give in the service of others, the more He will give us in return for our dedication and faithfulness. The benefits and rewards of tithing are ever lasting.
One of the hardest things for most of us to do is give up our money. Especially ten percent of it. Yet, this is what God asks of us, that we tithe, or give up ten percent of our earnings, to the church. (Proverbs 3:9) Why does God want my money? Why is tithing important?
There are principles behind tithing that have nothing to do with the money itself. Tithing teaches us obedience. When God asks us for something, we should be willing to give it freely and gladly. It teaches us trust. Surrendering ten percent of our gross income is scary, especially if we have little to begin with. We are taught discipline by tithing, too. Doing something difficult routinely takes discipline. When we can be disciplined with our money, we have a tremendous advantage. We also have a to obligation the support of our church. Tithing keeps the doors to God’s house open for all.
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One of the things that God asks of us is obedience. He doesn’t want us to be His slaves or puppets, He asks for obedience because it makes our lives easier. He has the advantage of knowing all things through all time and sees pitfalls and problems in front of us way before we could even imagine them. When we are obedient, He can smooth our paths. God has no particular need for our money. He owns the cattle on a thousand hillsides. (Psalm 50:10) All things under creation are His. What He wants is our joyful willingness to give whatever He asks of us.
He asks for our money because He knows that money is one of man’s most significant stumbling blocks. Greed and fear force us to hold tightly to our money. Many people worship money and will do whatever it takes to get it and keep it. When we are able to freely and joyfully give our money to God, we achieve a freedom like no other. Our obedience in financial stewardship reveals a maturity of character that God treasures. When we honor Him with our financial obedience, He blesses us. "And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 3:12) (For understanding, read Malachi 3-10-18)
Obedience opens up opportunities for God to bless us. Just as a responsible parent would not reward a disobedient child, God cannot reward us when we do not obey Him. If you are struggling financially, it could be a result of financial disobedience. This is not the only reason we experience financial difficulty, certainly, but it can be one reason.
God also asks for our faith and trust. When we willingly surrender a tenth of our income, especially when we believe we can’t afford to, we’re telling God, "I believe You will take care of me and provide for me." God wants for us to be able to look beyond our circumstances and rely on Him for our needs. "Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?" (Luke 12:24)
We can only demonstrate our faith with our actions. When we act out of belief that God is true to His Word, our faith is evident. James says "… be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." (James 1:22) Those who profess faith but don’t act in faith are deceived. It is faithful behavior that evidences the Spirit within us. It is faithful behavior that allows God to bless us. "Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the Lord of hosts, "If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it. " (Malachi 3:10 NKJV)
It is faithful behavior that matures us as Christians. Discipline is an important element of maturity. A person who can self-manage effectively can be trusted with much responsibility. "Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:48 NLT) We want God to find us responsible because we are of greater use to Him then. The mature Christian desires to serve the Lord to the best of his or her ability.
You could ask, "What’s in it for me to take on more responsibility?" While this question demonstrates that the asker is not yet ready for more responsibility, it is a question that comes to the mind of the newer Christian. "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." (Matthew 16:27) A mature, disciplined Christian will be able to give freely, knowing that God will reward his or her faith, that God will provide for every need and that God will allow him or her greater opportunity to serve.
We also tithe because we have a personal financial responsiblty to our church. We have church staff and a pastor who tend to our needs and the management of our church and they need to be able to live too. "Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness, and his chambers by wrong; that useth his neighbour's service without wages, and giveth him not for his work;" (Jeremiah 22:13)
Our church facilities also need keeping and the keeping of the house is the responsibility of the family. If you are a part of your church, then you have a responsibility for its upkeep. Your Money helps to take care of those who serve you and the facility that houses your church.
God doesn’t want us to give so much for His sake as for our own. He wants us to be obedient and give Him opportunities to bless us. He wants us to trust Him to meet our needs. He wants us to be disciplined and mature so that we are more useful in His service. He wants us to take responsibility for our Christian family and support our churches. He could do all these things on His own without our money but what would we learn? Does a child learn to take care of himself if his parent does everything for him? Of course not. God is our good parent and He works to raise us right so that we can stand on our own feet for Him.
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" In His Service "
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#74
thanks guys I know there are a lot of posts from me here though I hope you enjoyed reading them.
While I do not believe that we are under the law of tithing, I believe that it is a good and honorable thing to recognize God as the source of all of our sustenance by returning a portion to Him. I think this material is not about tithing as much as it is about a certain school of teaching. The problem is that is spite of my differences with that school of teaching, these opponents of it would undoubtable include me in there criticism. Is there any real objection to me following what I believe to be a Biblical principle, not as a law but as part of my service to Him?
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
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#75
ok guys give 10% that is a good thing to do as is any amount a person will give. but if the tithe you guys give isnt leaglistic obligation why do you demand others to do it as though it is.

I am suprised as to why after a look into the biblical principles of the tithe and its historical context in comparison to the new testament, why anyone would believe its a new testament principle.

come to my house you are so right what a better way to do it that would be a better christian fellowship.

I think if you want to give 10% do it as I think any amount is good God honers giving done with good motives.
im not intersted in refuting those who give 10%, but for those who put a legalistic obligation on the poor for which I believe the legalistic obligation is gone
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
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#76
its a school of thought about tithing of course it is
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
1
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#77
give what you will that is good give give give we dont say not to, GIVE

and if it is 10% do it too
if it is more do that too

but if there is a man who cant give like you, it is ungodly to rub his missfortune in his face, your giving should show him the love of christ
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#78
give what you will that is good give give give we dont say not to, GIVE

and if it is 10% do it too
if it is more do that too

but if there is a man who cant give like you, it is ungodly to rub his missfortune in his face, your giving should show him the love of christ
In Jesus' eyes, the widow who gave her mite was greater than the rich who gave much. The value of the gift means nothing, it is the heart and the attitude. As I said, I do not disagree with you concerning our freedom from the law of tithing. I mean no offense, only to discuss the balance of such things.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#79
amazes me that its usually people who dont attend church or have taken offence from church are usually the most vocal about not giving to church, then give scripture upon scripture why not too.... yet bless me bless me bless me at the same time and wonder why they roam in desert places
If you are part of a household you would be more than willing to contribute to the household, even the world does that with their own.:)
 

pagie

Senior Member
May 13, 2007
137
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#80
In Jesus' eyes, the widow who gave her mite was greater than the rich who gave much. The value of the gift means nothing, it is the heart and the attitude. As I said, I do not disagree with you concerning our freedom from the law of tithing. I mean no offense, only to discuss the balance of such things.
:) amen yes it is the heart and the attitude,

in proper biblical text exegeses, critical explanation or interpretation of a text or portion of a text, its definitions should be clear, I believe there is a clear distinction between tithe and any other form of giving. but many seem to believe that any form of giving is a tithe, if this is so it would mean that tithing is a new testament principle. but I believe critical examination of the texts regarding tithing and other forms of giving show that there is a distinction.

im not saying that since there is a distinction it means that tithing isnt a new testament principle. but I believe if someone demands it is they have very little evidence to support it.
im not trying to be dissrespectful I just believe that in light of the evidence to sugest tithes is not a new testament principle, I think it is far more plausible to believe. neither does the proper outcome of this conclusion condemn those who want to give 10% but only those who do it as though it is a legalistic obligation, since we believe that any form of giving done by the right motives is done to God and he honers it, like you said it is the heart and the attitude