Pastors making egregious errors

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Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#41
Feb 7, 2015
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#41
Our audio people are kind of lax and lazy on it, but I think it is ultra-important to RECORD and post online, every sermon preached. Even then, because we are human, it is all too easy to have some point of your sermon come out sounding just the opposite of what you intended. That's why we should ALWAYS go to the horse's mouth to clarify things.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#42
#42
Meggido said:
in my opinion the NASB is the closest to the original languages. I use many different versions while studying....except for paraphrased [the message] and others like it.
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Well that's up to interpretation about original language, though the line up for the translation was full of folks with doctoral degrees in bible study and such but doesn't mean squat to me just a bunch of wasted paper IMO,

the NASB has had afew overhauls, basically it's the 1885 RV, then the 1901,1953,1971,1995, etc. though it's a solid translation it has quirks like the rest of them, I'll give it a B+ To A.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#43
Feb 7, 2015
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#43
I don't want "the closest to the original language". I want "the closest to the INTENT of the original speakers." Luke 14:26 about "hating your parents, siblings, and self", is a good example of the danger of that.
 
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bluto

Senior Member
#44
Aug 4, 2016
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#44
santuzza said:
Thanks for all the input.

One incident was at the church where I'm the organist/director of music. I'm not a member of the congregation and would never join this denomination due to differences in doctrine. However, I have had a good relationship with the pastor, but he just gets wacky on his theology, and sometimes I just want to publicly correct him. He's teaching false stuff to his congregation. BTW, he has now been transferred to another church, so he is no longer an issue.

The other incident occurred at an ecumenical service with a pastor I hardly know. It was just so weird because it was the SAME BLATANT ERROR. It really took me by surprise because I've spoken with this pastor before and felt he was, for the most part, a Bible-preaching pastor.

And yes, I know for certain that I am not the one in error here. Here's what happened: ​Basically, referencing in Matthew, when Jesus is asked what the greatest commandment is, the pastors completely ignored the part about loving God (first) but put the entire emphasis on loving your neighbor. One even went so far as to say the greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself.
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So again santuzza, what church or denomination are we talking about here? Why can't you tell us? I mean you have no problem confronting him in front of the whole assembly but yet you won't tell us what church it is, why? Secondly, you said the Pastor left the church and has moved on so now I assume you feel safe? Where is your concern for the people at the next place you former Pastor has gone? Lastly, besides the Pastor's message on you accusing the Pastor of saying to love your neighbor more than God are there any other things he said that concern you? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#45
Jun 2, 2016
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#45
santuzza said:
For the second time in just several weeks, I’ve heard two different pastors make the same egregious mistake while teaching/preaching. I’m not sure how to feel about it – I feel somewhat insulted by the bad theology, and at the same time I want to just stand up to defend the Word of God. Do I stand up, right in the middle of the service, and correct the errant preacher? I mean, the err is so egregious, it seems to me that it demands this approach.


I would love to hear from any pastors out there for their opinion. How would you feel if a congregant stood up to correct you? Or how would anyone, as a congregant, feel if someone stood up to correct the pastor?


It all seems highly disruptive to me, and certainly disunifying, but if the err is so flagrantly in conflict with Scripture, shouldn’t the mistake be corrected, then and there? I know I could always speak to the pastor after the service, but at the same time, many who may not be as versed in the Bible will walk away with some pretty bad theology.


Your thoughts?
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Are you sure he made a mistake?
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#46
Jul 23, 2013
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#46
So, if someone stands up to correct the one giving the message and I don't agree with the person giving the correction and their theology, can I stand up and correct them?.... See where this is going?
 
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CaptainGoat

Guest
#47
#47
Not followed the postings here. It is the elders responsibility to step in to stop the preacher giving out unscriptural messages. Why elders should always be scripturally sound and have walked with the Lord over many years.
What are the elders doing? Why didn't they stand up?
 
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oldethennew

Banned
#48
Feb 28, 2016
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#48
because they are tithing robots - oh yes, Willie, always, The Master's Mouth...
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#49
May 8, 2014
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#49
Meggido said:
I agree, I saw this happen once and it was a great lesson for all involved...there are reasons why we have instructions to follow in the Body......what I would like to know in this story is where the other church leaders were at. :confused:


My only exception is if you are the Pastor and have a guest speaking, you can and should stop them if they get into the ditch...

I had a guy try to date set "the rapture" and invited the people in our fellowship to join him...he probably felt like a rapture happened because he was out of the door in the twinkling of an eye...
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There is no exception for failure to follow scripture when addressing a brother's error.

We would fire you for poor choice of speakers. You let someone that you had no idea what he was going to say speak to your congregation. Then you insult him in front of the congregation when he goes says something that you don't agree with.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#50
Feb 7, 2015
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#50
oldethennew said:
because they are tithing robots - oh yes, Willie, always, The Master's Mouth...
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Ya wanna flesh that out a little? I guessing it's a shot at me for something, but I wish you would make it more explicit.
 
santuzza

santuzza

Senior Member
#51
Feb 12, 2013
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#51
bluto said:
So again santuzza, what church or denomination are we talking about here? Why can't you tell us? I mean you have no problem confronting him in front of the whole assembly but yet you won't tell us what church it is, why? Secondly, you said the Pastor left the church and has moved on so now I assume you feel safe? Where is your concern for the people at the next place you former Pastor has gone? Lastly, besides the Pastor's message on you accusing the Pastor of saying to love your neighbor more than God are there any other things he said that concern you? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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It is a United Methodist Church. And, yes, the (now former) pastor has said other things that are contrary to Scripture, i.e. Jesus was not sinless when he as incarnate; Satan may or may not exist (he didn't know for sure); heaven may or may not exist (he didn't know for sure). And, even though he has been moved to another church, I HAVE considered reporting him to his bishop. But I'm not a Methodist, so I'm not sure anyone would care what I thought. And, Bluto, it's because of the people in the congregation that I wanted to stand up and correct him -- I didn't want ONE person to walk out of that place without knowing the truth.

And, because this is a UMC, there are NO elders -- no one to keep the pastor accountable. It's really a terrible system.

And for those of you who think I'm the one in error, that I may have just "misinterpreted" what he said, this is what he LITERALLY said to the entire congregation:

"And what did Jesus say was the greatest commandment? Love your neighbor as yourself."

It was THAT clear-cut. It was THAT egregious. There was no way of misinterpreting it.
 
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CaptainGoat

Guest
#52
#52
Rather like a car mechanic working at a garage and not believing cars exist!
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#53
#53
CaptainGoat said:
Rather like a car mechanic working at a garage and not believing cars exist!
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Well I'm just a car consultant I don't actually work on existing cars. :eek:
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#54
#54
I think the best approch would be to speak with a elder of the church. Ask him to explain the lesson or what ever is the matter.
If one is not available then ask to speak with the pastor . If he is found at fault and agrees you have gained a brother. Then it is up to him to set things right.
It doesnt sound like he did this diliberatly and it might be as you said a error. It happens. Just nice to know you wern't a sleep at the wheel.
Then again he might take you to school.
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#55
May 13, 2017
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#55
santuzza said:
For the second time in just several weeks, I’ve heard two different pastors make the same egregious mistake while teaching/preaching. I’m not sure how to feel about it – I feel somewhat insulted by the bad theology, and at the same time I want to just stand up to defend the Word of God. Do I stand up, right in the middle of the service, and correct the errant preacher? I mean, the err is so egregious, it seems to me that it demands this approach.


I would love to hear from any pastors out there for their opinion. How would you feel if a congregant stood up to correct you? Or how would anyone, as a congregant, feel if someone stood up to correct the pastor?


It all seems highly disruptive to me, and certainly disunifying, but if the err is so flagrantly in conflict with Scripture, shouldn’t the mistake be corrected, then and there? I know I could always speak to the pastor after the service, but at the same time, many who may not be as versed in the Bible will walk away with some pretty bad theology.


Your thoughts?
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I'm not a pastor but I do know that a person will not make a mistake until he tries to do something. He can remain mistake free by simply sitting quiet with his fingers meshed. So give them some credit for at least trying. Like you, they are learning and growing.
 
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CaptainGoat

Guest
#56
#56
I think there are issues that arrize when we put individuals into positions based on qualifications and not on their walk with God. Many countries have this issue. The UK is not immune to it either. I've seen a magazine dating back 20 years which wanted church leaders and they had to have this and that qualification... This was in the evangelical type of church denominations who should know better!
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#57
May 13, 2017
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#57
CaptainGoat said:
I think there are issues that arrize when we put individuals into positions based on qualifications and not on their walk with God. Many countries have this issue. The UK is not immune to it either. I've seen a magazine dating back 20 years which wanted church leaders and they had to have this and that qualification... This was in the evangelical type of church denominations who should know better!
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I agree. I used to attend corporate churches...I always thought it was sad how they put their pastors on a pedestal. The poor guy gets a fat head then if he falls, as he will, being human, they crucify him. They don't support the poor dufus at all. They expect him to stand and preach/teach, pray for them, advise them and whatnot but do not return the service.
 
J

joaniemarie

Senior Member
#58
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
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#58
breno785au said:
So, if someone stands up to correct the one giving the message and I don't agree with the person giving the correction and their theology, can I stand up and correct them?.... See where this is going?
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Looks like many others gave you reps so it wouldn't let me. Good reply!
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#59
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
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#59
Willie-T said:
Ya wanna flesh that out a little? I guessing it's a shot at me for something, but I wish you would make it more explicit.
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================================================
agreeing about one's 'intent', what's really coming from the heart!:)
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#60
Feb 7, 2015
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413
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#60
Denadii said:
I agree. I used to attend corporate churches...I always thought it was sad how they put their pastors on a pedestal. The poor guy gets a fat head then if he falls, as he will, being human, they crucify him. They don't support the poor dufus at all. They expect him to stand and preach/teach, pray for them, advise them and whatnot but do not return the service.
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So true. I have an old "Christianity Today" article, I believe it is, entitled "Why Do Christians Shoot Their Wounded?" It's too long to post, I think, but I will PM it upon request.
 
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