The Trinity Discussion

trofimus · Aug 19, 2017

1. The word "Jehovah" is wrong. So even their main flag is an error.

JEHOVAH is a Masoretic corruption of YHWH which combined the consonants of God’s name JHVH with the vowels of the title "Adonai".

Its very well proven.

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2. Trinity
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/trinity/

"In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity."

God is not a part of Trinity. God is Triune. They do not even know what they are talking about.

"Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?"

Because:
1. God is one - "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that." (James 2:19)
2. Father is God - "For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval." (J 6:27)
3. Son is God - "...we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life." (1J 5:20)
4. The Holy Spirit is God - "...prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." (2Pt 1:21)

=> So, we got three persons being God and one God, that means we have Triunity.

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3. The Holy Spirit
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-is-the-holy-spirit/

"The holy spirit is not a person"

"May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." (2Cor 13:14)
- you cannot have a fellowship with a "power" or a "thing"

kaijo · Aug 19, 2017

Whether u wanna use the word "Trinity" ...or whatever u want to call it..

We know that God made "us" in "His" image.

So..what do we know about "us"?

Well, we all have a "head"....and we all have a "body".

So what else do we have?....we also have a "spirit".

Combine those 3 things....and we get ..."us" ^^

Fill in the "gaps"...and we know that:

- GOD the Father is the "HEAD" of the Creator...
- God the Son is the "Body" of the Creator...
- God the Holy Spirit is the "Spirit" of the Creator ^^

gotime · Aug 19, 2017

Magenta said:

I was talking about Exodus 3. blessings.

gotime · Aug 19, 2017

Bronson said:

Stick around and that will turn out to be only one of my many written errors.

Dagallen · Aug 19, 2017

bluto said:

That is the answer for you.

Dagallen · Aug 19, 2017

The term, Angel of the Lord was used in different passages, we must accept the term as it is, yes can look for answers of what was the purpose or why God sent the Angel. The Angel of the Lord is one of God's workers, as God has many, the Angel of the Lord being sent to speak on God's behalf, was not to create confusion but was most likely done to over come confusion, giving conformation to all of how God spoke and speaks through many, as the story of the burning bush is conformation of how God did things through out, it's just some fail to see the conformation for what it clearly is. As John 1:18 applies to all of mankind, applicability is to all men or all of mankind.

bluto · Aug 19, 2017

Bronson said:

Of course you not going to answer bronson, that's because I left you "speechless" as well as handing you your lunch. This is not pride, but rather knowing the Bible. Another thing is bronson you don't pay attention because in another post you ask me to go to jw.org and I did here a day ago. Did you respond or address the questions I ask you, no!

"An angel, as related in my excerpt from JW.orgOk bronson, I went to https://www.jw.org/en/ but I did not see your excerpt, can you kindly point it out to me because I would like to read it. Secondly, is the angel of the Lord Michael the arc angel? And lastly, since you believe in having "accurate knowledge" can you please tell me what the Hebrew word "malak" means?

"

It's come to the point now where you won't answer because you can't. Why else would you just admit, "I am going to tell you nothing etc." Your now left with making me the object of your post as if I'm the bad guy. In short, grow up and be a man and at least "try" and defend yourself. I suggest you read 1 Peter 3:15. Here, I'll quote it from your NWT, "But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, ALWAYS READY TO MAKE A DEFENSE BEFORE EVERYONE THAT DEMANDS OF YOU A REASON FOR THE HOPE IN YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect."

It's obvious to me and to others that the Lord is not in your heart because you can't make a defense to "everyone" that ask because (like I said) your not "going to tell me nothing." This is what happens when your a part of an organization that "brain washes" you to the point of not being able to "THINK" for yourself instead of the "faithful and discreet slave" i.e The Governing Body think for you. Wake up bronson, before it's to late.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Bronson · Aug 19, 2017

valiant said:

Now that is a very defamatory comment to make, especially when you don't have a clue what I am.

Your comment is making trouble as you do not know what the others think and you are trying to stir up anger amongst them. You speak with the viper's tongue.

Bronson · Aug 19, 2017

trofimus said:

I ill take the comment about Jehovah being wrong: To start with the Jws do not claim that the way the ancient name of God was pronounced is the same as the word Jehovah; however it is accepted in the English language in many cases and religions as being as close as can be determined.

Do you consider the name "Jesus" to be wrong as well, as he may have been really named somethings else:

From JW.org

The name and title of the Son of God from the time of his anointing while on earth.
The name Jesus (Gr., I·e·sousʹ) corresponds to the Hebrew name Jeshua (or, in fuller form, Jehoshua), meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation.” The name itself was not unusual, many men being so named in that period. For this reason persons often added further identification, saying, “Jesus the Nazarene.” (Mr 10:47; Ac 2:22) Christ is from the Greek Khri·stosʹ, the equivalent of the Hebrew Ma·shiʹach (Messiah), and means “Anointed One.” Whereas the expression “anointed one” was properly applied to others before Jesus, such as Moses, Aaron, and David (Heb 11:24-26; Le 4:3; 8:12; 2Sa 22:51), the position, office, or service to which these were anointed only prefigured the superior position, office, and service of Jesus Christ. Jesus is therefore preeminently and uniquely “the Christ, the Son of the living God.”—Mt 16:16; see CHRIST; MESSIAH.

Read: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989238#h=3

bluto · Aug 19, 2017

bluto said:

Of course you not going to answer bronson, that's because I left you "speechless" as well as handing you your lunch. This is not pride, but rather knowing the Bible. Another thing is bronson you don't pay attention because in another post you ask me to go to jw.org and I did here a day ago. Did you respond or address the questions I ask you, no!

"An angel, as related in my excerpt from JW.orgOk bronson, I went to https://www.jw.org/en/ but I did not see your excerpt, can you kindly point it out to me because I would like to read it. Secondly, is the angel of the Lord Michael the arc angel? And lastly, since you believe in having "accurate knowledge" can you please tell me what the Hebrew word "malak" means?

"

It's come to the point now where you won't answer because you can't. Why else would you just admit, "I am going to tell you nothing etc." Your now left with making me the object of your post as if I'm the bad guy. In short, grow up and be a man and at least "try" and defend yourself. I suggest you read 1 Peter 3:15. Here, I'll quote it from your NWT, "But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, ALWAYS READY TO MAKE A DEFENSE BEFORE EVERYONE THAT DEMANDS OF YOU A REASON FOR THE HOPE IN YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect."

It's obvious to me and to others that the Lord is not in your heart because you can't make a defense to "everyone" that ask because (like I said) your not "going to tell me nothing." This is what happens when your a part of an organization that "brain washes" you to the point of not being able to "THINK" for yourself instead of the "faithful and discreet slave" i.e The Governing Body think for you. Wake up bronson, before it's to late.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Bumped for bronson, why are you hiding from me? Is it because you think I'm a "goat like one?"

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Bronson · Aug 20, 2017

bluto said:

I do get bogged down in the boring blurted bleatings of bluto, and I wonder what it all has to do with the trinity theory. I feel, but I may be wrong, but bluto seems to be a legend in his own mind, floating on an ego with the same abilities as a puffer fish. He pours out copious amount of words as though his brain is embalmed and only the mouth parts are left working.

I have similar thoughts as would be found on JW.org, and that is why I said to go argue with them. Can't you do that bluto and stop pretending you are a fox terrier at a postman's heels.

Bronson · Aug 20, 2017

bluto said:

I do not think of you as a goat like one, I like goats.

trofimus · Aug 20, 2017

Bronson said:

If you are trying to say that it does not matter that Jehovah actually is not the original sound/name, but just a transformed form to English, in that case whole the idea about "you must use this name and no other" went out through a window.

In that case you can use any letters/sounds you wish as long as you refer to the Creater in your mind/heart, so you can use "Lord" etc.

Also, Jesus said "you will be me witnesses", so you should name yourselves "Jesus's witnesses".

valiant · Aug 20, 2017

Bronson said:

lol I can smell you a mile off. Your posts make quite clear that you are a jw. even though you are now trying to appear incognito'

No I am bringing out the truth. I like to be honest, and I like others to be honest. And I do know what others think. But its a compliment to be called a viper by someone like you.

valiant · Aug 20, 2017

Bronson said:

The triune God FACT .

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Acts 20:28[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock, in the which the Holy Ghost has made you bishops, to feed the church of God, which[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] He purchased with his own blood.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Tit 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Pe 1:1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rev 22:12-13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]I am [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the Alpha and the Omega, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the first and the last, the beginning and the end. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif](Compare 1.8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty).[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 1:8-9[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] but of the Son he says,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Your throne, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]O God[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom. Y[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]ou have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2.8-9 and not after Christ: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] for in Him dwells [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]all the fulness of the Godhead bodily[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif],[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Php 2:5-11[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]who,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] being in the form of God,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]even[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted Him, and gave to Him [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the name which is above every name[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in heaven and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] on earth and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Lord[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], to the glory of God the Father. [/FONT]

Bronson · Aug 20, 2017

trofimus said:

If you are trying to say that it does not matter that Jehovah actually is not the original sound/name, but just a transformed form to English, in that case whole the idea about "you must use this name and no other" went out through a window.

In that case you can use any letters/sounds you wish as long as you refer to the Creater in your mind/heart, so you can use "Lord" etc.

Also, Jesus said "you will be me witnesses", so you should name yourselves "Jesus's witnesses".

Whatever!!!!

Bronson · Aug 20, 2017

valiant said:

I laugh every time I see this frightened message. what is is that you are afraid of with the JWs, are they too close to the truth for you? Do they show that pagan ritual is rife in the religions of Christendom? Do they show how Satan is the ruler of the world and he will be destroyed with all the wicked ones on earth when Jehovah is ready to extract revenge?

You are like a child hiding from the Boogyman!!!! LOL.

bluto · Aug 20, 2017

There you are bronson, returning to the scene of the crime? You still cannot answer the Biblical questions I put forward to you here. You never did give me a reason why except to say you will say nothing. I can understand that answer because you know nothing Sgt Shultz.

"You still don't get it bronson. Here is what Hebrews 6:13-14 says which is referring to Genesis 22. "For when God made the promise to Abraham, SINCE HE COULD SWEAR BY NO ONE GREATER, HE SWORE BY HIMSELF, vs14, saying, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply you."

The writer of Hebrews is quoting Genesis 22:16-17 verbatim and what you don't understand is the fact that CANNOT SWEAR OATHS ON BEHALF OF GOD. Even the text itself says God swore by Himself. Do you know what a"shaliach" is bronson? It's a person who is the agent or emissary for a principal. It's akin to say the President sends an emissary to another country to represent the President. And the "shaliach" can do almost anything except swear an oath on behalf of the President. This is from the Jewish disctionay.

Not only that but God's personified attributes are not beings separate from God, but are God Himself in His self-manifestation. And who do you think is the visible manifestation of God according to John 1:18? Jesus Christ is a divine envoy who does not merely bring infromation but who "mediates" a fully authentic and genuine encounter with the God who "sent" him, and nothing less than that. Jesus is not only the mediator in the NT but in the OT as well.

And to backtrack for a minute. Remember I gave you Genesis 17:1-2 and ask you who appeared to Abraham that claimed to be the Lord God. Well look at Genesis 16:7 which is the first appearance of the angel of the Lord. He meets with Hagar and multiplies here descendants at vs10. She then says at vs13, "Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him/God."

The question I was going to ask you is this? Is the same being who multiplied Abraham's descendants at Genesis 17 the same being who multiplied Hagar's descendants at Genesis 16? The answer of course is yes. Now what are going to tell me bronson?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Bronson · Aug 20, 2017

bluto said:

There you are bronson, returning to the scene of the crime? You still cannot answer the Biblical questions I put forward to you here. You never did give me a reason why except to say you will say nothing. I can understand that answer because you know nothing Sgt Shultz.

"You still don't get it bronson. Here is what Hebrews 6:13-14 says which is referring to Genesis 22. "For when God made the promise to Abraham, SINCE HE COULD SWEAR BY NO ONE GREATER, HE SWORE BY HIMSELF, vs14, saying, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply you."

The writer of Hebrews is quoting Genesis 22:16-17 verbatim and what you don't understand is the fact that CANNOT SWEAR OATHS ON BEHALF OF GOD. Even the text itself says God swore by Himself. Do you know what a"shaliach" is bronson? It's a person who is the agent or emissary for a principal. It's akin to say the President sends an emissary to another country to represent the President. And the "shaliach" can do almost anything except swear an oath on behalf of the President. This is from the Jewish disctionay.

Not only that but God's personified attributes are not beings separate from God, but are God Himself in His self-manifestation. And who do you think is the visible manifestation of God according to John 1:18? Jesus Christ is a divine envoy who does not merely bring infromation but who "mediates" a fully authentic and genuine encounter with the God who "sent" him, and nothing less than that. Jesus is not only the mediator in the NT but in the OT as well.

And to backtrack for a minute. Remember I gave you Genesis 17:1-2 and ask you who appeared to Abraham that claimed to be the Lord God. Well look at Genesis 16:7 which is the first appearance of the angel of the Lord. He meets with Hagar and multiplies here descendants at vs10. She then says at vs13, "Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him/God."

The question I was going to ask you is this? Is the same being who multiplied Abraham's descendants at Genesis 17 the same being who multiplied Hagar's descendants at Genesis 16? The answer of course is yes. Now what are going to tell me bronson?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

So what are you really saying or are you like a politician where, if you can't think of what to say you just say anything.

The question I was going to ask you is this? Is the same being who multiplied Abraham's descendants at Genesis 17 the same being who multiplied Hagar's descendants at Genesis 16? The answer of course is yes. Now what are going to tell me bronson?

This is one of your problems, amongst many, you do not ask a question you make your own statement, so what is the point of me reading all your stuff only to see you have already made the decision...Again I refer you to JW.org.

trofimus · Aug 21, 2017

Bronson said:

All your ideas were proven wrong. You have no response. You just wait for a while, then return and repeat what was already proven wrong.

So what should he be frightened of?

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