Polygamy

[unobtrusive]

We are not talking about Christ and church...

Marriage is related to Christ and the church according to the truth Paul administers. Marriage should be an institution that represents Christ and the church. If not, we bear false witness. It's quite simple trofimus.

I repeat the quote of his writings.

"For this cause shall a man (singular) leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife (singular), and they two shall be one (singular) flesh.This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ (singular) and the church (singular)." (Ephesians 5:31-32)

 

[Magenta]

Truly dear Magenta,

I would not mix words of Jesus and the requirements for elders in the Church with the OT rules and laws.

For example, divorce was allowed by the Law, but is not in the New covenant.

Moral standards of Christians are higher than moral standards under the Law. You gave one example of that (adultery vs thinking of adultery, murder vs hate = murder already etc).

Dearest Trofimus, the explicit words of Scripture are not to multiply wives for yourself, yes, in relation to kings, for they are to rule over the people and set a good example, and also (is that redundant?), they both (David and Solomon) ignored this admonition, and fell into grievous sin as a result.

I still have not been supplied any Scripture that explicitly approves the taking of more than one wife.

Jesus answered, “It was because of your hardness of heart that Moses permitted
you to divorce your wives; but it was not this way from the beginning." Matt 19:8

The moral standard is the same, but taken to a higher level
than simply behavior. It is man's heart God seeks to transform.

For it is from within, out of a person's heart, that evil thoughts
come--sexual immorality, theft, murder, Mark 7:21

In the beginning, one man had one wife. Jesus obviously approves this.

The making of laws to attempt to limit the sexual immorality of people does not equate to God approving of sexual morality. In the example I gave earlier from the same chapter of 2 Samuel you originally provided, God sad He was going to give the wives of David to his neighbors to "have" in broad daylight in full view of everyone. This is not a condoning of adultery, nor does it condone voyeurism. To suggest that God doing this things is a promotion of such as generally acceptable is not a proper understanding of Scripture.

 

[trofimus]

Dearest Trofimus, the explicit words of Scripture are not to multiply wives for yourself, yes, in relation to kings, for they are to rule over the people and set a good example, and also (is that redundant?), they both (David and Solomon) ignored this admonition, and fell into grievous sin as a result.

I still have not been supplied any Scripture that explicitly approves the taking of more than one wife.

Jesus answered, “It was because of your hardness of heart that Moses permitted
you to divorce your wives; but it was not this way from the beginning." Matt 19:8

The moral standard is the same, but taken to a higher level
than simply behavior. It is man's heart God seeks to transform.

For it is from within, out of a person's heart, that evil thoughts
come--sexual immorality, theft, murder, Mark 7:21

In the beginning, one man had one wife. Jesus obviously approves this.

The making of laws to attempt to limit the sexual immorality of people does not equate to God approving of sexual morality. In the example I gave earlier from the same chapter of 2 Samuel you originally provided, God sad He was going to give the wives of David to his neighbors to "have" in broad daylight in full view of everyone. This is not a condoning of adultery, nor does it condone voyeurism. To suggest that God doing this things is a promotion of such as generally acceptable is not a proper understanding of Scripture.

Precious Magenta,

The explicit words of Scriptures also says that "For he shall not multiply to himself horses".
Does this mean that nobody could have two or three horses in Israel? Certainly not.

I think you have been supplied by Scriptures giving rules for polygamy and so making it legal. You did not supply any verses forbidding polygamy And what is not forbidden, is allowed.

Moses permitted divorce and Jesus forbidden divorce. I cant see how this is just "higher" and not the opposite. But it does not matter much, because it is irrelevant to whether OT patriarchs were allowed to take more wives.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Dear Magena

Dear Trofimus (truly)...

Truly dear Magenta

Dearest Trofimus.

Precious Magenta

 

[Magenta]

Precious Magenta,

The explicit words of Scriptures also says that "For he shall not multiply to himself horses".
Does this mean that nobody could have two or three horses in Israel? Certainly not.

I think you have been supplied by Scriptures giving rules for polygamy and so making it legal. You did not supply any verses forbidding polygamy And what is not forbidden, is allowed.

Moses permitted divorce and Jesus forbidden divorce. I cant see how this is just "higher" and not the opposite. But it does not matter much, because it is irrelevant to whether OT patriarchs were allowed to take more wives.

Adultery is forbidden by explicit commandment, and Jesus defined such as the mere looking upon a woman with lust in your heart. I did not say they were opposite, but the same moral standard, for Jesus showed that the true intention of the law goes beyond outward observable behavior to strike at the root of sin, showing we are not to sin even in our heart, for such will more than surely lead to sinning in behavior toward God, yourself, and others. God making provisions to extend protection to those who have been sinned against cannot in any way be taken to mean that those sins which are being committed are condoned the first place. If you wish to say that giving rules/laws/guidelines for the conduct of those engaged in polygamy are to be taken as explicit permission to do so, then you must by reason of logic also admit that the giving of rules/laws/guidelines on how to treat those who murder and rape are likewise a condoning such behavior. Surely dearest Trofimus, I know you do not mean to say such, and yet, the logic is the same, and as you can see, surely leads to error.

 

[Magenta]

Dearest NoNameMcgee...

 

[Magenta]

"More than surely" I meant to say rather, more than likely

 

[AndTheWordWasGOD]

Does this mean God approves of adultery?

Of course it doesn't...

In 2 Samuel 12:11-12, Nathan is clearly recounting God's mercy in pronouncing judgment upon his servant David much less than what his transgressions required according to the law (Ezr 9:13).

The judgment for Adultery required the blood of both the adulterer and the adulteress (Lev 20:10).
The judgment for Murder required the blood of the murderer (Num 35:31)
​

But in 2 Samuel 12:7-8, Nathan is clearly recounting blessings received according to the Will of God through his father's Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Gen 49:8-10).

These things were all blessings according to the anointing David received as the chosen servant of God:

"Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
​

And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."
​

These things were the result of God's righteous judgment for David doing evil in God's sight, for despising God's commandments, for despising his neighbor and his neighbor's wife:

"The sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun."
​

Surely I shouldn't have to say that this does not mean God approves of adultery. Right?

And then when David's sins are clearly recognized, he humbles himself, acknowledges his sin and repents.

2Sa 12:13-14
(13) And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away your sin; you shall not die.
(14) Howbeit, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto you shall surely die.

But in due time, when David will be raised up from the grave (Act 2:29) he will be able to say clearly and with excellent knowledge whether he sinned in taking more than one wife. If he agrees with what God has recorded in the scriptures for our learning (2Ti 3:16) we can anticipate what his answer might be:

1Ki 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

Don't forget that David's first wife Michal was made barren all of her days because she despised the King in her heart. So then, how was Jesus then to become the son of David?

In that day before God, I don't want to be on the side of unrighteous judgment before David's Lord.So I practice this verse today while I have my being; for live is a vapor and all flesh is grass.

Rom 3:3-4
(3) For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
(4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That you might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when you art judged.

And even still, I am not an advocate for Polygamy; and neither am I an advocate for a man to multiply wives unto himself.

 

[miknik5]

Of course it doesn't...

In 2 Samuel 12:11-12, Nathan is clearly recounting God's mercy in pronouncing judgment upon his servant David much less than what his transgressions required according to the law (Ezr 9:13).

The judgment for Adultery required the blood of both the adulterer and the adulteress (Lev 20:10).
The judgment for Murder required the blood of the murderer (Num 35:31)
​

But in 2 Samuel 12:7-8, Nathan is clearly recounting blessings received according to the Will of God through his father's Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Gen 49:8-10).

These things were all blessings according to the anointing David received as the chosen servant of God:

"Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
​

And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."
​

These things were the result of God's righteous judgment for David doing evil in God's sight, for despising God's commandments, for despising his neighbor and his neighbor's wife:

"The sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun."
​

Surely I shouldn't have to say that this does not mean God approves of adultery. Right?

And then when David's sins are clearly recognized, he humbles himself, acknowledges his sin and repents.

2Sa 12:13-14
(13) And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away your sin; you shall not die.
(14) Howbeit, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto you shall surely die.

But in due time, when David will be raised up from the grave (Act 2:29) he will be able to say clearly and with excellent knowledge whether he sinned in taking more than one wife. If he agrees with what God has recorded in the scriptures for our learning (2Ti 3:16) we can anticipate what his answer might be:

1Ki 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

Don't forget that David's first wife Michal was made barren all of her days because she despised the King in her heart. So then, how was Jesus then to become the son of David?

In that day before God, I don't want to be on the side of unrighteous judgment before David's Lord.So I practice this verse today while I have my being; for live is a vapor and all flesh is grass.

Rom 3:3-4
(3) For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
(4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That you might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when you art judged.

And even still, I am not an advocate for Polygamy; and neither am I an advocate for a man to multiply wives unto himself.

That wasn't Davids only sin
He sinned afterwards in numbering his army

 

[trofimus]

If you wish to say that giving rules/laws/guidelines for the conduct of those engaged in polygamy are to be taken as explicit permission to do so, then you must by reason of logic also admit that the giving of rules/laws/guidelines on how to treat those who murder and rape are likewise a condoning such behavior. Surely dearest Trofimus, I know you do not mean to say such, and yet, the logic is the same, and as you can see, surely leads to error.

I have already responded to this

1. Law says "Do not murder". Law does not say "you will not have more than one wife".

2. Law gives rules for polygamy without any punishment. Law gives punishments for murder. So the treating is quite different.


I think these differences are so clear that this "logic of sameness" will not be used again in another post

 

[laura_charlotte]

"Neither shall he multiply wives to himself..." (Deuteronomy 17:17a)
Sorry, but scripture (the law of God) says differently, as you suggest, despite David and Solomon's actions. People didn't know before the commandments were given to Israel.

In the same way, divorce is not according to God's will. *Jesus has one betrothed wife (the church), and no more. IMO, marriage is the most holy representation of the spiritual relationship concerning intimacy that God desires.

Again, divorce has nothing to do with polygamy. You're pulling together different scriptures with different contexts to try and make them all tie into the one meaning. It doesn't take away for a moment Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the twelve tribes of Israel foundation was polygamy. Irrelevant of what one is a personal advocate for, Polygamy's roots are found in the bible as established by the Lord.

 

[J7]

So God also dislikes excess and disproportionality?

Is this not an issue of black and white, but of too much of something?

I think the Bible rebukes gluttony, so it is there also

2 Samuel 6:16

16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart.




James 4:17

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Deuteronomy 17:17 - Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

It is a sin to disobey those who are in authority over you. If it is illegal where you live, than it would sin for you to do it. If it is legal where you live, then it is not sin to do it.

But you will be much happier if you are as i am. i am married to Jesus Christ, and wear a Jesus ring on my wedding finger. i have been celibate for over 10 years now, and i have never been more happy in my life. i do all things to please Jesus Christ, i am no longer torn in trying to please Jesus and wife. i love Jesus more than life itself, i have never been happier.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Don't dislocate your shoulder brother.....Just a friendly warning.

Sorry, have no clue as to what you mean here. please explain.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[MarcR]

David was an adulterer, and a murderer. He was seen to do evil in the eyes of God. Both the OT that exhorts men to be faithful to the wife of their youth, and the NT. Why would that change?

Fortunately for all of us God is not concerned with degree of sin since all sin has the same consequence. God is concerned with with whether there is sincere repentance. That is why David in spite of his murder and adultery is called by God "a man after His own heart"

Ac 13:22
22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
KJV

 

[MarcR]

Some observations:

The OP question was " is polygamy a sin?"

The thread does not reflect a consistent understanding of what is sin.

Is sin everything outside of God's perfect will? Or, is sin anything that God has expressly forbidden?

By the first definition Polygamy is definitely sin. By the second definition it is not.

However God has told believers to obey the civil authorities. Therefore polygamy is a sin where it is forbidden by law; which includes most of the western part of the world.

Is polygamy God's desire for 21st century believers? I think we can all agree: Definitely NOT!

 

[kaylagrl]

Some observations:

The OP question was " is polygamy a sin?"

The thread does not reflect a consistent understanding of what is sin.

Is sin everything outside of God's perfect will? Or, is sin anything that God has expressly forbidden?

By the first definition Polygamy is definitely sin. By the second definition it is not.

However God has told believers to obey the civil authorities. Therefore polygamy is a sin where it is forbidden by law; which includes most of the western part of the world.

Is polygamy God's desire for 21st century believers? I think we can all agree: Definitely NOT!

Well said brother and thank you for the rep.