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Thread: Restoring the Edenic covenant

  1. #101
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Rom 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.

    Rom 8:21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

    When the kingdom of the Jews/Israel was terminated in the war of 66-70 AD, this was the revealing of the sons of God as against the natural sons of Israel.

    The creation in view is not dirt, rocks, trees, plants or animules.

    The rivalry between the gospel and the Jewish opponents of the 1st century AD was settled and the true sons of God revealed as the victors allowing the gospel to set free the "creation" so that every creature under heaven could come to be one of the sons.
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  2. #102
    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    Rom 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.

    Rom 8:21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

    When the kingdom of the Jews/Israel was terminated in the war of 66-70 AD, this was the revealing of the sons of God as against the natural sons of Israel.

    The creation in view is not dirt, rocks, trees, plants or animules.

    The rivalry between the gospel and the Jewish opponents of the 1st century AD was settled and the true sons of God revealed as the victors allowing the gospel to set free the "creation" so that every creature under heaven could come to be one of the sons.
    Are we finally living in the millennium? I must have missed it. Woe is me!
    Last edited by unobtrusive; August 24th, 2017 at 05:20 PM.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Yep, yer missed the millennium by nearly two millenniums...
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  4. #104
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    Are we finally living in the millennium? I must have missed it. Woe is me!
    That's because you were not paying attention to Augustine. According to him everything was hunky-dory.

    However, Augustine’s argument was not with those who said this passage referred to a literal 1,000 years. He acknowledged this as a possible interpretation. But he preferred a broader view of the thousand years, as a term marking an indefinite period of time between the first advent, when Christ’s kingdom was established, and his second advent.
    https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/augustines-millenial-views/

    As to the "Edenic Covenant" it is simply an imaginary covenant which satisfies the Covenant Theologians.

  5. #105
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Hos 6:7 But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant, There they have dealt treacherously against Me.
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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    Hos 6:7 But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant, There they have dealt treacherously against Me.
    It's a good thing that you have quoted this verse, since "Adam" literally means "the man". You will notice that almost all the English translations -- other than the KJV -- have "the man" in Genesis 2:23, which is consistent with the rest of that chapter which speaks of "the man". For some strange reason the KJV has "Adam".

    Now here's the interesting thing. In Hosea 6:7 the KJV has "like men" whereas almost all the other translations have "like Adam".

    So the question we need to ask ourselves is "Where in Genesis 1 and 2 does the word 'covenant' appear?" and the answer is that it DOES NOT. But in Genesis 9:8,9 we actually see the word "covenant" when God makes a covenant with Noah and his sons. So this is the first actual covenant:

    8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
    9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

    Strong's Concordance
    berith: a covenant
    Original Word: בְּרִית
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: berith
    Phonetic Spelling: (ber-eeth')
    Short Definition: covenant

    Brown-Driver-Briggs

    II. between God and man.
    1 alliance of friendship ("" סוֺד) Psalm 25:14.
    2 covenant, as a divine constitution or ordinance with signs or pledges (see אוֺת).
    a. with Noah Genesis 9:9-17 (P) Isaiah 54:10;Jeremiah 33:20,25; a divine promise that there would be no other deluge.

  7. #107
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Hey, the KJV translators were inspired so it must be right Jim lad...

    Evidently you know little or nothing about the translation of the King James Bible. But a little serious research will show that that God did in fact ensure that the KJV would not only be an accurate and faithful word-for-word translation, but He guided all the circumstances surrounding this translation.

    Don't go biting the hands that feeds ya.......

  8. #108
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    From Adam Clarke's commentary based on King Jim's bible


    Verse 7

    But they like men (כאדם keadam, "like Adam") have transgressed the covenant - They have sinned against light and knowledge as he did. This is sense, the other is scarcely so. There was a striking similarity in the two cases. Adam, in Paradise, transgressed the commandment, and I cast him out: Israel, in possession of the promised land, transgressed my covenant, and I cast them out, and sent them into captivity.
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  9. #109
    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant





    Soon your trials will be over
    Offered up by mercy’s hand
    A better view than where you’re standing
    A doorway to another land

    The sweetest welcome from the Father
    Gathered up and carried h-ome
    We are past this time of waiting
    Come let us bow before Your thr-one

    ~Chorus~
    We will meet in the Golden City in the New Jerusalem
    All our pain and all our tears will be no more
    We will stand with the hosts of heaven
    And cry holy is the Lamb
    We will worship and adore You evermore

    Never can the powers of darkness
    Neither death nor even l-ife
    Let nothing ever separate us
    From the holy love of G-od

    ~Chorus~

    (We will meet in the Golden City in the New Jerusalem)
    (All our pain and all our tears will be no more)
    All my tears will be no more
    (We will stand with the hosts of heaven and cry) holy is the Lamb
    (We will worship and adore You evermore)
    (We will meet in the Golden City in the New Jerusalem)
    (All our pain and all our tears will be no more)

    Holy holy holy is the L-amb
    (Holy holy holy is the L-amb)
    Mmm h-ol-y
    Holy holy holy is the L-amb
    (Holy holy holy is the L-amb)
    Holy is the L-amb
    Last edited by unobtrusive; August 24th, 2017 at 08:30 PM.

  10. #110
    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Let’s take a look at what God wants to do with us, and the way He created Adam and then put him in the garden of Eden. Keeping mind that the name “Eden” means “**paradise”, let’s take a look at the way it will be during the millennial reign of Christ Jesus.

    He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the **paradise of God. (Revelation 2:7)

    This clearly related “Eden” with the millennial government of Jesus Christ. So how did God, through Christ Jesus create Adam?

    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:26)

    Conclusion: In their *image, both Father and Son, including the created angelic beings is how Adan was created from the earth.

    Since the fall in Eden, that image was destroyed, yet through Christ Jesus that image can be restored/repaired/renovated.

    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be *conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)

    Is this something that is totally complete at the moment that we are “born again?” Not really, because even as the apostle Paul mentioned about himself, he still wasn’t complete in that image, even though he was pressing “toward the mark” of this “high calling.” That would leave the only option to be that this is a process.

    Philippians 3:12-14
    12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    What will it take, one may ask? It will take a complete change of the flesh, ushering us into the paradise which, in the beginning was complete at the ending of the 6th day of creation, making “Eden” (Paradise, and place of peace i.e. Jerusalem) the place where God Almighty dwells, just like then.


  11. #111
    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Interesting word comparisons in respect to the restoration of God’s dwelling called “Eden.”

    עִדָּן`iddan (Aramaic), found only in the book of Daniel, occurs 13 times in 11 different verses.

    And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times *(זְמָן) and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time *(עִדָּן) and times *(עִדָּן) and the dividing (פְּלַג) of time *(עִדָּן). (Daniel 7:25)

    *Notice that there are two different spellings for “time.”
    עִדָּןʻiddân, id-dawn'; (Aramaic) from a root corresponding to a set time.

    פְּלַג pᵉlag, pel-ag'; (Aramaic) a half:—dividing. (Daniel 7:25)
    פֶּלֶג Peleg, peh'-leg; earthquake; to divide, split, (Niphal) to be split, be divided, (P'al) to be divided. Peleg, a son of Shem:—Peleg. (Genesis 10:25)

    עֵדֶןʻÊden, ay'-den; (masculine pleasure); Eden, Adam's home:—Eden.
    (Genesis 2:8-15 and Ezekiel 31:16-18 "pleasure")
    עָדַןʻâdan aw-dan' luxuriate (Nehemiah 9:25 “delight”)
    עֲדֶןʻăden ad-en' hitherto (Ecclesiastes 4:2-3 ‘till now’...“yet”)
    עֶדֶן ʻEden eh'-den Eden (2 Kings 19:12 and Isaiah 37:12, a place [city] of “pleasure”)
    עֵדֶןʻêden ay'-den luxury (Genesis 18:12 and Psalm 36:8 luxury, dainty, delight, finery)
    עִדָּןʻiddân id-dawn' time (Daniel 7:25 a set time)

    Eden
    = עֵדֶן is derived from iddan – עִדָּן which is (Aramaic written in the book of Daniel) from a root corresponding to a set time; technically, a year; time. Taking the meaning of each Hebrew character individually:
    עֵ ayin– To see, know, experience, understand, to be seen.
    דֶ dalet – door, pathway, to enter; a path or a way of life; movement especially into or out of.
    ן nun, pronounced “noon” – action, life, heir, son, i.e. continue, the final estate.
    עֵד ayin, dalet written together = Constitutes a very important root which hieroglyphically (a system of writing) develops the idea of TIME; the actual time; a periodic return as a MONTH; a thing constant by which one can give a testimony or witness.

    Time, times and a half time” in Revelation 12:14. Compare this verse with Revelation 1:3, and Revelation 22:10. It’s the same word in these three instances.

    Time and Times” a due measure … καιρός kairós, kahee-ros'; of uncertain affinity; an occasion, i.e. set or proper time:—X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while.

    1. a measure of time, a larger or smaller portion of time, hence:

      1. a fixed definite time, the decisive epoch waited for
      2. opportune or seasonable time
      3. the right time
      4. a limited period of time
      5. the things and events of time


    With all this, it is clearly a stretch of imagination that Daniel 7:25 is actually confirming the time sequence of 42 months quoted in Revelation 11:2 and Revelation 13:5. After all, the moon travels around the earth every 29.5 days, making 42 months, according to the Biblical calendar, to equal 3.4 years instead of 3.5 years.

    The Garden of Eden was God’s dwelling with Adam and Eve until they ate of the forbidden fruit. After the covenant with Jacob (Israel), God dwelt with them in numerous geographical locations ("times"). Now, in the “New Covenant,” God’s dwelling place is within His children according to 1 Corinthians 3:16. In my estimation, the “dividing of time” in Daniel 7:25 would relate to 2 Corinthians 6:17. (quote) “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.”

    “A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.” (Joel 2:3 (עֵדֶן Eden – spelled the same as the Garden of Eden)

    In Hebrew, "holy" is also translated as “set apart,” which could be relevant to the "dividing of time" mentioned in Daniel, and "half a time" mentioned in Revelation. Just sayin'. What do you all think?

  12. #112
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    "
    Time, times and a half time” in Revelation 12:14. Compare this verse with Revelation 1:3, and Revelation 22:10. It’s the same word in these three instances.

    Here is how this phrase should be interpreted

    TIME = 1 YEAR
    TIMES = 2 YEARS
    THE DIVIDING OF TIME = HALF A YEAR

    TOTAL = 3 1/2 YEARS = 42 MONTHS = 1260 DAYS.

    All these are related to the time when Satan and the Beast (the Antichrist) take full and total control of this world for a season. It has nothing to do with the restoration of Eden.


    Last edited by Nehemiah6; 1 Week Ago at 04:59 PM.

  13. #113
    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post

    Here is how this phrase should be interpreted

    TIME = 1 YEAR
    TIMES = 2 YEARS
    THE DIVIDING OF TIME = HALF A YEAR

    TOTAL = 3 1/2 YEARS = 42 MONTHS = 1260 DAYS.

    All these are related to the time when Satan and the Beast (the Antichrist) take full and total control of this world for a season. It has nothing to do with the restoration of Eden.


    Biblical leap years are every other year or every 3rd year, alternating respectively. How would 42 months figure into 3 and 1/2 years, each month being 29 and 1/2 days long? "Time" and "times" in the book of Daniel are spelled the same as "Eden" in Genesis.

    עֵדֶןʻÊden, ay'-den; (masculine pleasure); Eden, Adam's home:—Eden. (Genesis 2:8-15 and Ezekiel 31:16-18 "pleasure")
    עִדָּןʻiddân id-dawn' time (Daniel 7:25 a set time)

    How does "times" equal twice as long as "time?" They are both the same Aramaic word.
    Last edited by unobtrusive; 1 Week Ago at 05:12 PM.

  14. #114
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    How does "times" equal twice as long as "time?" They are both the same Aramaic word.
    "Time" is singular and "times" is plural. We work in reverse and see that this period is either described as forty two months or 1260 days (and we can forget about leap years etc), therefore 3 1/2 years (which is also exactly half of 7). The prophetic month is a 30-day month, and this is seen consistently by tying together all the references to this period.

    While Eden and time appear to be related, context determines that they actually are not.

  15. #115
    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    "Time" is singular and "times" is plural. We work in reverse and see that this period is either described as forty two months or 1260 days (and we can forget about leap years etc), therefore 3 1/2 years (which is also exactly half of 7). The prophetic month is a 30-day month, and this is seen consistently by tying together all the references to this period.

    While Eden and time appear to be related, context determines that they actually are not.
    The completion of 3 and 1/2 years, with 30 day months, would be over 2 weeks short of a full 3 and 1/2 years. In 7 years, using your count, would be over a month short of a full 7 year period. In Biblical terms, "month" and "new moon" are the same Hebrew word. The numbers just don't match. Sorry.

    Anyway, Eden seems to be "pleasure" in "paradise." Something to look forward to, wouldn't you say?
    explained in this post
    Last edited by unobtrusive; 1 Week Ago at 06:06 PM.

  16. #116
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    The completion of 3 and 1/2 years, with 30 day months, would be over 2 weeks short of a full 3 and 1/2 years. In 7 years, using your count, would be over a month short of a full 7 year period. In Biblical terms, "month" and "new moon" are the same Hebrew word. The numbers just don't match. Sorry.

    Let's do that math again.

    42 months x 30 = 1260 days/30 x 12 (360) = 3.5 years = time + times + half a time.



  17. #117
    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Silver trumpets are blown at the beginning of every month, according to scripture. When the moon no long gives its light, the trumpets will cease because no one will know when the month begins.

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Matthew 24:29)

    In moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:52-53)



  18. #118
    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Let's do that math again.

    42 months x 30 = 1260 days/30 x 12 (360) = 3.5 years = time + times + half a time.


    [/SIZE]
    3 and 1/2 years X 365 days per year = 1277.5 days.

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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Heaven is essentially, the new Eden. Same principles. And as Jesus said, "On Earth as it is in Heaven."

    So yes, in essence, I totally agree.
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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring the Edenic covenant

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    3 and 1/2 years X 365 days per year = 1277.5 days.
    Why are you using 365 days when the prophetic year is 360 days? So don't be surprised if your math is off.

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