Apparent Dichotomy but in Truth FULL Agreement ! What is Janes Saying Here?

[J7]

The Bible says we will judged by the Law of Liberty.

So what is Grace, really?

Does grace mean we swan into eternity regardless of what we do on earth, or does it mean we are now exempt from the eternal death sentence our sin brings on us, but we are still under judgement?

I think it may just mean that we are now guaranteed to be granted new life when we die, but we are still judged on our behaviour.

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[J7]

I agree with everything you said here. What I disagreed with was the idea that James believed that works contribute towards salvation. I don't think you believe that works contribute to Salvation. I wanted to clarify that James didn't think so either.

Well James means one of two things I think...still mulling it all over. I think when we are saved we are written in the Book Of Life, but we are still judged:

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Either that or James was simply dealing with legalists in Jerusalem, who professed Christ, but had no works of the Holy Spirit in their lives. (On the contrary, they were secret law adherents). Maybe James was simply saying to the Church in Judea what to look out for in phony Christians.

 

[loveme1]

Galatians 5

16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.



If we walk in the Spirit then we do not the things that would not allow us to inherit the Kingdom of GOD.

So we draw the goodness of the True vine by believing.. by hearing and doing.

Because the Spirit is given if we believe thus setting us free from the flesh which leads us to sin because it is at enmity with GOD's Law.

So we are born again of the Holy Spirit, set free under Grace to love and serve GOD and one another.

and there is no law against because that fulfills GOD's law.. True love because we are loved by Heavenly Father and the Messiah.

That is what the Messiah teaches us through His Testimony.

Its not okay to sin wilfully once we know the Truth.. if we abide in His Word we are Faithful and realise it is better to cut off a hand if it offend us than we be cast in...


Now Grace covers us but if we set not our heart and mind to walk in the Spirit then we are not growing in Christ.. as in grow in Grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour.

We work and labour in love for our Lord to say Faithful servant come take your crown of life.

 

[John146]

It is not our works, but the works God does through us, that we can't take credit for, that give evidence of our Salvation.

It's not even our faith that justifies. It's the faith of Jesus Christ. James is talking about one's individual's faith that has to be proven by works.

My friend, until we see eye to eye on the audience of James and the audience of Paul, we will continue to view these passages differently.

Paul - the church, the body of Christ, eternal salvation through belief in the gospel of Christ alone.

James - the twelve tribes scattered in the tribulation, physical salvation by faith plus works and avoiding the mark justifying their reign with Christ in the Millennium.

 

[MarcR]

Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
KJV

Jesus' suffering on the night before He was crucified, and His suffering on the cross were full payment for the sins of all people in all times. The ONLY thing that will send a person to Hell is rejection of what Jesus has done for him or her.

Nobody can earn Salvation; and nobody can take credit for any part of it.

 

[J7]

Ok, so really we have a debit and a credit ledger.

On the debit side are our sins under the Law. On the credit side are our good works.

Jesus erases all the sins on the debit ledger, so we are free from them.

We now have eternal life (are saved) and when we die, all the good things we do under the law of faith
will be tallied up by Jesus at judgement day?

 

[loveme1]

Revelation 3

1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.









You see we are going to be judged and those worthy get to walk with Him in white.

Some had defiled their garment and were not worthy.

Repent is to change your heart... feel remorseful .. so they were warned to Repent.. their works were not found to be perfect enough before GOD.

So yes we will not be worthy if we reject what Christ did for us by not taking heed and strengthening what remains... adhering to His Word and instructions.

So we are written in the book of life but can be blotted out....

Now some say this message is for others... but by that token Paul was writing to the Romans, are you Roman? To the Galatians, are you from that Church? But you accept what Paul wrote to them.. so likewise what you read you should take heed and learn from.. we are in the time when we have the Bible both Old and New Testament compiled into One Book and we all can read with exception to whom ever is unable for different reasons.

The Right to the Tree of life is at the Lord's discretion.. telling people they have eternal life if they accept Christ is True if they believe unto the saving of their souls.

Some say a prayer and think they are good to go.. no repenting or believing unto the saving of their soul.. all done.. but to call Him Lord you must grow in Grace and knowledge of Christ. Hear and do is believing...

The Good Shepherd will lead you to the still waters and restore your souls but like a sheep gone astray and now found you must look to the Good Shepherd to guide you home and not wander off again.

You are not working for but because of.....

By following His Instruction you reject not what He did for you.

 

[garee]

I agree with everything you said here. What I disagreed with was the idea that James believed that works contribute towards salvation. I don't think you believe that works contribute to Salvation. I wanted to clarify that James didn't think so either.

Its Jesus 's work of faith alone that brings salvation. No work of the faith of God, no grace to freely give as a gift of spirit life. A new spirit and a newly created heart is the gift., our soul will never die.

If we were to have his faith in respect to the imaginations of our own hearts .it would violate the fist commandment by blaspheming the Holy name we are called heavenward.

We are to have no gods before Him and that includes oneself.

 

[Enow]

Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
KJV

Jesus' suffering on the night before He was crucified, and His suffering on the cross were full payment for the sins of all people in all times. The ONLY thing that will send a person to Hell is rejection of what Jesus has done for him or her.

Nobody can earn Salvation; and nobody can take credit for any part of it.

Right. So James was never talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation being dead and unable to save, but James was reproving a church for verbalizing faith in God's Providence to the poor to get out of helping the poor in meeting their immediate needs that were about to perish from starvation & the elements. It is in the eyes of the poor that the church's faith in God's Providence does not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor when the church fails to lead by example.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a grace-based view of Revelation 3 concerning Sardis. We can read the scriptures through the Old Covenant "lens" or through the "lens" of the New Covenant.

I like to us this site for some things because it looks at "seemingly contradicting" scripture through the finished work on Christ on the cross and resurrection and based on the New Covenant.

Jesus said that there would be tares amongst the true wheat in our midst. Paul said to the Corinthians to examine yourself to see if you are in the faith nor not. See if Christ is in fact in you.

It also has a place at the bottom of the article where others like us can ask questions and I often get insight from the Holy Spirit from the other's comments.

Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)

What a wonderful thing for a church to get a letter from Jesus! The seven churches of Revelations 1-3 were a real mixed bag with some getting rebukes and others encouragement, but all were blessed. Even the churches that were mucking around with the things of God were blessed because they were being warned. They were being given a chance to repent. These letters say as much about the mercy and goodness of God as they do the badness of certain people.

When we read these letters it is essential that we ask two questions: What is Jesus saying in light of the finished work of the cross? And who is he speaking to? If we fail to rightly divide the word we can end up getting the wrong message. For instance, consider what Jesus says to the church at Sardis:

“I have not found your deeds complete” (Rev 3:2).

The issue of deeds comes up in several of these letters. At different times Jesus says, “I know your deeds,” or “your deeds are incomplete,” or “I will repay you according to your deeds.”

So what are these deeds that Jesus is talking about?

If we were living under the old covenant, we would no doubt define these deeds in terms of the 10 commandments plus the other 600 or so sundry Levitical laws.

Today some might say they are the deeds that “prove repentance” or they are works of obedience, as in, “we should do what the Bible says.” Okay, but do we obey everything in the Bible including the law? If not, how do we know when our deeds are complete? At what point is repentance proved?

No, Jesus did not go to the cross so that we could get the chance to work for our salvation. Some people think Christianity is about rules and regulations, but that’s not grace. No, Jesus “worked” so that we would not have to. He died, so that we might enter his rest unencumbered by the heavy yoke of religion.

Someone once asked Jesus, what must we do to do the works of God? Jesus replied,

“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he sent” (Jn 6:29).

What is our divine occupation? It is believing in the finished work of Jesus and “working” that out in our lives to the point where the supernatural becomes natural and our broken world is restored. This was no one off claim either. From the very beginning of his ministry Jesus consistently preached, “repent and believe the good news” (Mk 1:15).

What does Jesus want you to do? He wants you to repent and believe the good news. And he wants you to tell other people the good news so they have a chance to repent and believe too.

If you think that is too simple, that we also obey Jesus’ commandments, consider what he commanded us to do:

“And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ… ” (1 Jn 3:23)

Here in the church at Sardis was a group of people who heard the good news but had not repented and did not believe. They were busy doing churchy stuff but it was all dead works. They had a reputation of being alive but Jesus wasn’t fooled. “You are dead. Wake up!” I call them the church of the living-dead, but really they were just dead.

Are you surprised to learn that there are unbelievers in the church? You shouldn’t be. Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian. You can preach, prophesy, cast out demons and perform signs and wonders without ever knowing Christ (Mt 7:23). It’s not going to church or leading a church that counts, it’s whether you have repented and put your faith in Jesus.

In many of the letters to the New Testament churches there are sections either addressed to unbelievers or warning the saints about the influence of unbelievers among them. The letter to the church at Sardis is no exception.

How do we know for sure there were some unbelievers in the church at Sardis? Because Jesus said they were dead and in danger of judgment.

What message did Jesus have for the sinners in Sardis?

To the unbelievers at Sardis Jesus said, “remember what you have heard; hold fast and repent” (Rev 3:3, KJV). What had they heard but the gospel? What work did he want them to do? He wanted them to grasp the good news, hold fast to it, and repent.

Jesus compares repenting to waking up. Twice he tells them to “wake up!” Paul used similar language when he told the Romans to put aside their “deeds of darkness” and wake up from their slumber (Rms 13:11-12). To repent is to wake up, to come to one’s senses and return to the Father (1 Cor 15:34, Lk 15:17).

Jesus warned the Sardisians, “if you don’t wake up, I will come like a thief.” This is a warning of impending judgment. The zombie sinners at Sardis had heard and rejected the good news. They were playing church and rejecting the grace of God. In his mercy, Jesus was giving them another chance to say “yes” to him before it was too late.

This is the same message Jesus has for religious people everywhere. Stop playing church. Wake up and obey what you heard before it’s too late. Repent and believe the good news.

But this church wasn’t a completely lost cause for among the sinners were a “few” saints. We know this because Jesus clearly distinguishes a second group within the church who had not “soiled their clothes” and who were considered “worthy.” How do we soil our clothes? By trying to make ourselves righteous (Is 64:6). What makes a person worthy in God’s eyes? Being clothed with Christ and his righteousness (Is 61:10).

What message did Jesus have for the saints in Sardis?

“They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.” (Rev 3:4-5)

Those who preach a works-based gospel – which is no gospel at all – have used this verse to burden Christians with unholy demands for religious works. They say things like, “you’ve got to perform for Jesus lest he find your deeds incomplete.” Or they say, “if you don’t overcome to the end, Jesus will blot out your name from the book of life.” Honestly, it’s as if the cross made no difference at all!

Why would Jesus – who nailed the law to the cross and died so that we might live free from its demands – suddenly turn around and start laying law on his church?

In this passage Jesus gives Christians the most wonderful assurance of their salvation. He says, “I will never blot out their names from the book of life.” To this the confused preacher replies, “Watch out Jesus might be tricking us, he might yet do what he just said he would never do.” It’s ludicrous!

Jesus not only died for us but he lives for us that we might be holy and blameless. The riches of his love for us are not bound up in threats and conditions. He “performed” so that we don’t have to. Just as Jesus “worked” on our behalf, so he has overcome on our behalf:

“In the world you have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” (Jn 16:33)

If you are in Christ, you have already overcome the world because he has overcome the world (1 Jn 4:4). Trials and tribulations may entangle and overcome sinners (2 Pet 2:20), but they cannot overcome you. You may not feel like an overcomer. The circumstances of your life may be trying to tell you that you are not an overcomer.

But they are lying. They are speaking from a worldly point of view. We are from God and he says we are more than conquerors through Christ who loved us (Rms 8:37). The world may rise up against you, but Almighty God is for you! The entire world may try and condemn you but God himself justifies you (Rms 8:33).

The next time circumstances or people try to lay guilt on you saying you must do this and that to overcome, respond with this: “I believe that Jesus is God’s Son. In him I have already overcome the world!” (1 Jn 5:5).

The good news is not that you have to work hard to rescue yourself. The good news is that God himself has rescued you and qualified you and brought you into the kingdom of the Son he loves (Col 1:12). God looks at you clothed with Christ and says, “you are worthy and your deeds are perfectly complete!”

Unquote:

Here is the link to the article if anyone is interested in looking at the questions and comments on the article.

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/11/incomplete-deeds-the-zombie-church-of-sardis-rev-31-6/

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No amount of works prove or disprove one's salvation.

then why does scripture say they do?

people use terms like 'real' faith or 'saving' faith in comparison to what they say is 'false' faith ie: the person was never a believer

so let's use the term 'saving' faith and agree with scripture when it says that faith, saving faith, will produce good works

this is not salvation, so don't stumble over it. seems many do

 

[J7]

Salvation is free, but then value comes from action

Rom 2:10
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Failure to work probably isn't really even an option. Matthew 25

[FONT=&quot]24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.[/FONT]

 

[7seasrekeyed]

What works could a man do to show evidence of his salvation? For every good work a man does, he probably does ten that could show evidence that he's not saved.

sounds like you are comparing two distinctly opposing forces here

are you trying to misunderstand? you could not do a better job of it, if you were

 

[loveme1]

Many people even atheist do works.. they may feed the hungry and do good deeds.. but they have not Faith.. Faith in the Son of GOD. They are unbelieving.

For those of us that believe and have Faith our works are to be perfect before GOD.

Now I'm not declaring I have perfect works.. I'm sharing what the Messiah teaches us and I set my heart to believe and obey.

If I then set my heart to obey His Word and instruction.. where is my error? Should I say no Lord you did it all for me so I'm good to go.. No.. we are to strive.. we are to walk in the Spirit. Under Grace at liberty to do the things He Commands.

You can say His Command is to believe in the name of His Son and that is so... but that belief should lead you to build your house on His Word... those that Keep His Testimony love Him and call Him Lord without rebuke.

The saints are those that Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Testimony of the the Messiah.

The Law of Faith that worketh love. Love for GOD and for each other.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think james made it clear in his one saying

as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead also.

A person may be physically alive, but if their have not Gods spirit, they are spiritually dead.

A person may claim to have faith. But true, living faith works, If we have no works, then we just prove we had no faith.

A dead body, A dead faith, Both lead to an eternity apart from God.

 

[Enow]

I think james made it clear in his one saying

as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead also.

A person may be physically alive, but if their have not Gods spirit, they are spiritually dead.

A person may claim to have faith. But true, living faith works, If we have no works, then we just prove we had no faith.

A dead body, A dead faith, Both lead to an eternity apart from God.

That is you misapplying James words from what he was actually talking about which is verbalizing faith in God's Providence without leading by example.

Here are some scripture for rebuttal towards what you have said.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Note verse 18 on how some err from the truth and had their faith overthrown. That means they no longer believe in Him, but His seal still remains as even former believers are STILL called to go before that throne of grace for help in discerning the lies and the iniquity to depart from them by His grace & by His help, otherwise, they are in danger of being denied by Him for being in iniquity to be disqualified in being a reprobate to become a castaway; as in left behind at the pre trib rapture event when God shall judge His House that day.

But those left behind still have His seal even though they have been denied by Him for being workers of iniquity that denies Him. More scriptural proof that the call to every believer having His seal to depart from iniquity is to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper held in His honor and to His glory alone.

The eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus is to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House which is why running that race by LOOKING to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin in departing from iniquity is done by the grace of God and by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd also.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:[SUP] 12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

So those verses reproves what you had posted, as those who err and do not believe in Him any more, are still saved because He still abides, but by the grace of God, we are led by His word to still call even former believers to go to Jesus for help and discernment in departing from iniquity so that they too may be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.

Otherwise, castaways is what makes saints left behind as vessels unto dishonor in His House as they will still be gathered by Him after the great tribulation for He cannot lose any one of all the Father has given Him.

John 6:[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The reason the vessels unto honor are still In His House is to testify to the power of God in salvation for all those who even believe in His name. And since Jesus Christ IS the Good Shepherd, He will get even that one sheep that went astray because that sheep has been bought with a price and sealed as His as that Holy Spirit is not going anywhere.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

But it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God because the Father will chasten and scourge every child He receives that gets left behind and so the call is to be given out for unrepentant believers and former believers to ask Jesus for help to get ready to go before the Bridegroom comes so that they too may be accepted by Him by the grace of God & His help.

So even former believers are not at risk of spending an eternity apart from God, but are at risk of being left behind.

 

[Nehemiah6]

A dead body, A dead faith, Both lead to an eternity apart from God.

What James calls a "dead" faith we would call a "non-existent" faith. True "saving faith" leads to a transformed life which serves God and Christ, as well as others. That service is called "good works" by James, and Paul calls it our "reasonable service" (Rom 12:1). So whether it is Christ, or the apostles, they all teach that good works are a normal and natural outflow of a living faith in God and Christ. For Abraham, it was his willingness to offer up Isaac in obedience to God. But Paul says that each one of us are to be "living sacrifices", and that is "reasonable service".

 

[UnderGrace]

So those with dead faith are unbelievers?

Why would James make his point, by using unbelievers as an example, to exhort believers to do good works?

I think james made it clear in his one saying

as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead also.

A person may be physically alive, but if their have not Gods spirit, they are spiritually dead.

A person may claim to have faith. But true, living faith works, If we have no works, then we just prove we had no faith.

A dead body, A dead faith, Both lead to an eternity apart from God.

 

[Enow]

That is you misapplying James words from what he was actually talking about which is verbalizing faith in God's Providence without leading by example.

Here are some scripture for rebuttal towards what you have said.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Note verse 18 on how some err from the truth and had their faith overthrown. That means they no longer believe in Him, but His seal still remains as even former believers are STILL called to go before that throne of grace for help in discerning the lies and the iniquity to depart from them by His grace & by His help, otherwise, they are in danger of being denied by Him for being in iniquity to be disqualified in being a reprobate to become a castaway; as in left behind at the pre trib rapture event when God shall judge His House that day.

But those left behind still have His seal even though they have been denied by Him for being workers of iniquity that denies Him. More scriptural proof that the call to every believer having His seal to depart from iniquity is to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper held in His honor and to His glory alone.

The eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus is to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House which is why running that race by LOOKING to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin in departing from iniquity is done by the grace of God and by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd also.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:[SUP] 12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

So those verses reproves what you had posted, as those who err and do not believe in Him any more, are still saved because He still abides, but by the grace of God, we are led by His word to still call even former believers to go to Jesus for help and discernment in departing from iniquity so that they too may be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.

Otherwise, castaways is what makes saints left behind as vessels unto dishonor in His House as they will still be gathered by Him after the great tribulation for He cannot lose any one of all the Father has given Him.

John 6:[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The reason the vessels unto honor are still In His House is to testify to the power of God in salvation for all those who even believe in His name. And since Jesus Christ IS the Good Shepherd, He will get even that one sheep that went astray because that sheep has been bought with a price and sealed as His as that Holy Spirit is not going anywhere.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

But it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God because the Father will chasten and scourge every child He receives that gets left behind and so the call is to be given out for unrepentant believers and former believers to ask Jesus for help to get ready to go before the Bridegroom comes so that they too may be accepted by Him by the grace of God & His help.

So even former believers are not at risk of spending an eternity apart from God, but are at risk of being left behind.

We interrupt this thread with a special news bulletin.

Correction on a paragraph.

The reason the vessels unto dishonor are still In His House is to testify to the power of God in salvation for all those who even believe in His name. And since Jesus Christ IS the Good Shepherd, He will get even that one sheep that went astray because that sheep has been bought with a price and sealed as His as that Holy Spirit is not going anywhere.

We now return to our regularly scheduled thread.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Keep in mind the Great and second like it Commandment..

If someone is hungry and naked am I Keeping the Commandment? Is it love if I'm not moved to feed and clothe if I can? Can I say I love GOD if I love not my neighbour?.. I do the things He taught to call Him Lord.

We are saved by Grace through Faith unto good works.

So GOD grafts the Believing branch in to draw nourishment from the True vine. But there is a warning to continue in His goodness or be cut off.. we stand by Faith but that Faith is perfected by doing the works of the Lord.

Yes,the two commandments,love GOD and love your neighbor.

We receive nourishment from the vine and show spiritual fruit that our neighbor can see.