Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

[Desertsrose]

Nice. You ask about Calvinism and then back pedal into "If you want to discuss the Bible then we can discuss the Bible." Seems like a game to me.

Considering the OP was where do people get this idea that faith comes from God, sticking specifically to the Bible wasn't part of the thread's purpose.

Hi Lynn,

This is just soooooo totally false. Please read the OP again. Well here I'll post it for you again.

I've been hearing a lot about how the faith we have is not our faith, but it's the faith of Jesus. I was just wondering what scriptures would validate this teaching?

I have never heard this until I came here to CC. Does anyone know when this teaching began? Is it a denominational teaching?


I believe it's our own faith and have been taught this and as I said, it's not something I've ever heard before. Actually there are so many things I've never heard before until I came here.


I've been pondering this for a while now. I was going to bring it up in our women's bible study I'm a part of, but we need all the time for the study. But I don't really think they've heard this before either.


Thanks!

I have to wonder if you're trying to misrepresent me or are you calling me a liar maybe? At the very beginning of the OP I asked what scriptures would support this thought that we don't have our own faith.

1. It wasn't asking where people get the idea that faith comes from God; it's about our own personal faith that we walk in daily.
2. It was asking for scriptures.
3. It not about reformed theology at all.

​We all know that faith comes from God.

I already explained to you why I asked the question about our own personal faith that belongs to us. Derailing the thread is fine, but don't say things that aren't true.

I'll say it again - "this was never about Calvinism." It's about WOF/HG/3rdW thinking.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The difference between versions here is something Angela will clear up later in the thread.

Even if this verse and Ro 3:23 did not say the faith of Jesus; it is apparent that both are correct!

Eph 2:8 tells us that it is the Faith God gave us that saves us . Ro 3:23 and Ga 2:16 explain that it is Jesus' faith and or faithfulness that made salvation possible on the cross.


There is no conflict!

I'm sorry, but I don't view Angela as the total expert that some do here

she presents one view, someone else presents another

that's all it is

there are many sources that disagree with her view

obviously, I disagree with her view and side with the other view

as do others here

 

[1ofthem]

Nice. You ask about Calvinism and then back pedal into "If you want to discuss the Bible then we can discuss the Bible." Seems like a game to me.

Considering the OP was where do people get this idea that faith comes from God, sticking specifically to the Bible wasn't part of the thread's purpose.

Why do you want to keep making this about me? Honestly.... I'm sure there is nowhere on this thread that I have asked about Calvinism. I'm not concerned with Calvin or his beliefs...Here is what I posted about Calvin:

Not interested…Thanks though….I’ve been down this road before ... went rounds with you on this to no avail. It only turned to name calling and ungodliness…So if it’s all the same to you…I’ll just leave Calvin dead and buried… Not interested in digging him up to learn one thing about or from him….

No hard feelings...Just saying, I’d rather agree to disagree with you here

Twisting others words around seems to be an art for some folks on here. The kind of games played by some don't bother me because I know what I said and I know what I believe. I'm not easily bullied around, but I know others who do get their feelings hurt by things like this. I've watched many just quit posting and/or leave this site because they can't even have a conversation on here for fear of being attacked and bullied, and that is the only reason that I am even answering you right now.

So you can continue to try to twist my words, call me a liar, and say I just love to argue or whatever you want. Honestly, I would rather you do that to me than anyone else because like I said I am not bullied easily and I don't particularly care about what others think about me... I can take it.

Now if you want to discuss the Bible we can...If not that's alright too, but I really am done with discussing myself. If you want to know more about me then please feel free to PM. But let's not disrupt this thread anymore with it...alright

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I've been hearing a lot about how the faith we have is not our faith, but it's the faith of Jesus. I was just wondering what scriptures would validate this teaching?

I have never heard this until I came here to CC. Does anyone know when this teaching began? Is it a denominational teaching?


I believe it's our own faith and have been taught this and as I said, it's not something I've ever heard before. Actually there are so many things I've never heard before until I came here.


I've been pondering this for a while now. I was going to bring it up in our women's bible study I'm a part of, but we need all the time for the study. But I don't really think they've heard this before either.


Thanks!

SaveSave​

I'm going to reply without reading the whole thread first, so I might be repeating what's already been said, but...

There are different views of this verse: saved by grace through faith and that not of yourselves.

I believe the "that not of yourselves" refers back to the faith, not the grace, because it would seem silly to me to wonder if the grace/kindness of God came from myself.

So I read it that the faith came from God so no man can boast that he made a good choice and so is going to heaven. To me, this cancels out gratitude which would say: He saved me.

If my faith is a good thing (and it is, because He saved me through it) then it didn't come from me because there was no good thing in me until His Spirit.

I think it reads: saved by the kindness and mercy of God through faith, and even that faith not of myself so no man can boast about his faith but only give thanks and glorify God.

 

[Jackson123]

I'm going to reply without reading the whole thread first, so I might be repeating what's already been said, but...

There are different views of this verse: saved by grace through faith and that not of yourselves.

I believe the "that not of yourselves" refers back to the faith, not the grace, because it would seem silly to me to wonder if the grace/kindness of God came from myself.

So I read it that the faith came from God so no man can boast that he made a good choice and so is going to heaven. To me, this cancels out gratitude which would say: He saved me.

If my faith is a good thing (and it is, because He saved me through it) then it didn't come from me because there was no good thing in me until His Spirit.

I think it reads: saved by the kindness and mercy of God through faith, and even that faith not of myself so no man can boast about his faith but only give thanks and glorify God.

God is love, that what the Bible say, and the Bible never lie. Why God not give a faith to every body, for the sake of love

 

[7seasrekeyed]

God is love, that what the Bible say, and the Bible never lie. Why God not give a faith to every body, for the sake of love

exactly and good question

saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves, would mean that the salvation is not of ourselves

salvation is and always was, God's plan for the redemption of mankind. there are quite a few different kinds of faith that scripture speaks of

I absolutely believe we are drawn to God's truth by His Spirit, but we can respond or not. we cannot earn salvation and we cannot work to keep it. ALL of it through the mercy and grace of our heavenly Father.



I don't believe that God is turning people aside who wish to trust in Him, because He has not foreordained them in the manner some people believe

 

[Jackson123]

exactly and good question

saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves, would mean that the salvation is not of ourselves

salvation is and always was, God's plan for the redemption of mankind. there are quite a few different kinds of faith that scripture speaks of

I absolutely believe we are drawn to God's truth by His Spirit, but we can respond or not. we cannot earn salvation and we cannot work to keep it. ALL of it through the mercy and grace of our heavenly Father.



I don't believe that God is turning people aside who wish to trust in Him, because He has not foreordained them in the manner some people believe

yep God offer grace to every body

john 3:16

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

whoever believe

whoever mean everybody that believe.

the requirement is believe,

if one refused to believe than fail to get grace,

a man have a choice to refuse or accept the offer

 

[MarcR]

I'm sorry, but I don't view Angela as the total expert that some do here

she presents one view, someone else presents another

that's all it is

there are many sources that disagree with her view

obviously, I disagree with her view and side with the other view

as do others here

That's ok we don't need to agree on everything.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

That's ok we don't need to agree on everything.

well I agree with this anyway LOL!

exactly and I do agree with both yourself and Angela on other things

thanks

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

God is love, that what the Bible say, and the Bible never lie. Why God not give a faith to every body, for the sake of love

I don't know. But I know that the answer to your question is not for me to boast that my faith came from myself when God has said that faith was not of myself, (in the mentioned verse), so I shouldn't boast that it was.

But another part to that puzzle is that to him who has, more will be given, but to him who doesn't have, even what little he has will be taken from him. To me, it means that with each area of unbelief and mistrust He brings me to, I can either go with the worlds wisdom or I can go with His. This is a tremendous struggle at times. Who hasn't struggled with storing treasure on earth because the world tells them they will be eating catfood in old age if they listen to and believe God? So to me, to reject trust in Him (faith) to go with the worlds wisdom and insist on storing treasure, this would be "to he who doesn't have, because he rejected and refused it as being true, what little he has will be taken from him.

 

[dalok6800]

I like this thread and would like more comments. I hear this faith of Jesus and not personal faith more and more.

This sounds like Christian Unitarian Universalist teaching.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I like this thread and would like more comments. I hear this faith of Jesus and not personal faith more and more.

This sounds like Christian Unitarian Universalist teaching.

Faith is the work of God, based on his faith.

But it is still our faith which saves us,

Confusing, but then again, not really confusing at all,

 

[MarcR]

I like this thread and would like more comments. I hear this faith of Jesus and not personal faith more and more.

This sounds like Christian Unitarian Universalist teaching.

I'm not at all sure that if comes from a radical fringe at all.

I think that it is an honest reading of Rom 3:23. I don't totally disagree with it.

As I see it: We are saved by the faith we were given (Eph 2:8); which becomes ours when we receive it. However, the grace, which is fascillitated by our faith, is made possible by Jesus faith (faithfulness) in taking our penalty upon Himself.

 

[dcontroversal]

Faith is the work of God, based on his faith.

But it is still our faith which saves us,

Confusing, but then again, not really confusing at all,

From faith to faith it is written, the just shall live by faith....

yet we cannot get away from...

Not all men have faith
God deals faith to men in measure
Faith is of or from God....both indicate source
Faith comes by HEARING and HEARING by the word of God<---the source

 

[Jackson123]

I don't know. But I know that the answer to your question is not for me to boast that my faith came from myself when God has said that faith was not of myself, (in the mentioned verse), so I shouldn't boast that it was.

But another part to that puzzle is that to him who has, more will be given, but to him who doesn't have, even what little he has will be taken from him. To me, it means that with each area of unbelief and mistrust He brings me to, I can either go with the worlds wisdom or I can go with His. This is a tremendous struggle at times. Who hasn't struggled with storing treasure on earth because the world tells them they will be eating catfood in old age if they listen to and believe God? So to me, to reject trust in Him (faith) to go with the worlds wisdom and insist on storing treasure, this would be "to he who doesn't have, because he rejected and refused it as being true, what little he has will be taken from him.

to choose to believe in Jesus is not something we can boast. Every body can choose to believe or not. It does not need a special still to choose to believe Jesus.

 

[dalok6800]

I'm not at all sure that if comes from a radical fringe at all.

I think that it is an honest reading of Rom 3:23. I don't totally disagree with it.

As I see it: We are saved by the faith we were given (Eph 2:8); which becomes ours when we receive it. However, the grace, which is fascillitated by our faith, is made possible by Jesus faith (faithfulness) in taking our penalty upon Himself.

I see this and appreciate your comments. Thank you forexplaining it this way.

 

[dalok6800]

From faith to faith it is written, the just shall live by faith....

yet we cannot get away from...

Not all men have faith
God deals faith to men in measure
Faith is of or from God....both indicate source
Faith comes by HEARING and HEARING by the word of God<---the source

2 Thess 3:2
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

How are you defining not all men have faith? Are you saying all unreasonable and evil men do not have faith? Only a few believers have no faith? who are those who do not have faith?

I define not all men have faith to mean that unreasonable and wicked men men do not have faith, and they are ones that seek to destroy ministers proclaiming the Gospel. I do not define not all men have faith has anyone that believes because Romans 12:3 says God has given each believer a measure of faith.


Romans 12:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

to choose to believe in Jesus is not something we can boast. Every body can choose to believe or not. It does not need a special still to choose to believe Jesus.

It doesn't appear so simple to me. First He has to draw you. Then He has to heal your blindness. If He didn't draw me, I'd have never come. And if He didn't heal my blindness, I never would have seen in the first place. I'd have kept on believing God didn't even exist. I didn't just choose to believe that God existed. I just suddenly saw that He did when I read the gospel. But then, that's just my experience.

 

[1ofthem]

I like this thread and would like more comments. I hear this faith of Jesus and not personal faith more and more.

This sounds like Christian Unitarian Universalist teaching.

Yeah, I like this thread as well because CC is really the first place that I have heard this concept of Jesus faith vs. Personal faith.

Here is some of my thoughts on it though:
1 John 2 (KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The Bible plainly says that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. I’m definitely not saying that the whole world will be saved, but that as many as believe in him will be saved.

Now, I can’t see why Jesus would have died for the whole world if he was just going to give or allow only some people to have faith and not others…That just don’t make any sense to me. I think this is where free will comes into play… because I don’t think God is going to force anyone to believe in him, and I also don’t believe he is going to specifically withhold or not give faith to anyone else.

Jesus died for everyone and we all will have an opportunity and chance, but it’s on us whether we accept it or not. And of course God already knows who will and who won’t, but it is our own choice to accept it or not.

 

[dalok6800]

Yeah, I like this thread as well because CC is really the first place that I have heard this concept of Jesus faith vs. Personal faith.

Here is some of my thoughts on it though:
1 John 2 (KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The Bible plainly says that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. I’m definitely not saying that the whole world will be saved, but that as many as believe in him will be saved.

Now, I can’t see why Jesus would have died for the whole world if he was just going to give or allow only some people to have faith and not others…That just don’t make any sense to me. I think this is where free will comes into play… because I don’t think God is going to force anyone to believe in him, and I also don’t believe he is going to specifically withhold or not give faith to anyone else.

Jesus died for everyone and we all will have an opportunity and chance, but it’s on us whether we accept it or not. And of course God already knows who will and who won’t, but it is our own choice to accept it or not.

This is how I understand it to be as well.