Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

[Depleted]

There is only one thing God created that went rogue, corrupted per say, and from that one thing the many have been discieved and won't draw to God by that one thing that doesn't want the many to draw to God.

Still not getting it.

Poison ivy is rogue.

Datura is rogue.

Thorns are rogue.

Lion eating sheep is rogue.

Animals being scared of Man is rogue.

What is this one thing you think that causes rogue?

(Helpful hint, so you get where I'm coming from... simply because I doubt you understand me any more than I understand you. All that came about by God's decree.)

 

[Depleted]

@depleted
You are kinda mean so I will just drop the whole topic

I'm not even trying to go for vaguely mean, so if you think I hit "kinda" you're misreading what I wrote.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Thank you IamWhoIam and Matt cuz it was sounding kinda crazy like God just decided who zHr would save and who He would not save.

Your welcome, though that is not entirely wrong either, people have until their last physical breath to decide then the chips fall where they may or may not.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Still not getting it.

Poison ivy is rogue.

Datura is rogue.

Thorns are rogue.

Lion eating sheep is rogue.

Animals being scared of Man is rogue.

What is this one thing you think that causes rogue?

(Helpful hint, so you get where I'm coming from... simply because I doubt you understand me any more than I understand you. All that came about by God's decree.)

Ok I'll be point blank, satan was the one God created that went rogue, agree or not agree?

 

[IamWhoIam]

As much intellectual thought you have depleted I'm shocked I really had to spell it out for you. the name satan.

 

[Depleted]

Ok I'll be point blank, satan was the one God created that went rogue, agree or not agree?

Yay! I do great with point-blank. lol

Back to original question then (without the hyperbole.) Are you saying Satan created evil or does evil? That's the part I'm not getting -- the "create" thingy.

And, really! I could well be missing what you meant all along, but when I get stuck, you need a crowbar to unstick me. Might even need some butter.

 

[MarcR]

Why then, does God create those who He will not draw to Him (if we have no choice)?

I believe that we do have a choice. Many exercise their choice badly. Jesus died to pay for all sin of all people.

The only thing that can send a person to Hell is rejection of His provision for us.

God does not influence our choice; but He has prior knowledge of what it will be.

 

[garee]

Ok I'll be point blank, satan was the one God created that went rogue, agree or not agree?

Scripture informs us God creates an evil in the same way he creates darkness....(let there be) forming light to guide us with the peace that surpasses human understanding.

God uses the word evil in two ways. One in respect the evil one and another the evil he brings removing His hand of mercy for reasons like punishing Israel for not obeying His word and bringing another nation the consequence of evil .

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Interestingly he provides us with a parable to represent the gospel coming down bringing salvation a result of the peace he creates in us as he works to both will and perform His good pleasure.... a mystery.

Isa 45:8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

Then it seems as if he is declaring in effect... it is he who has mercy on whom he has mercy in respect to the gospel .

Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

 

[garee]

what would be the faith of Jesus? what does this involve?

It involves God believing (exercising faith as a work of thinking , planning) that what he hoped would appear and as a labor of His love pronouncing the words that worked what we hoped for. Let it be and there was light, making His faith perfect as the cause of the work seen..

(Purple in parenthesis) my comments.

Heb 11:1 Now (Christ's) faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That seen is the testimony of what God not seen, hoped for. The same spirit of faith according as it is written .

2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith (Christ's) , according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;


The witness in respect to Him who has no form has spoke. After each creation as a work of the faith of Christ ...."Let it be" when it appeared he said as his own testimony it was good defining what is good out of the things he commanded out of darkness.

I would offer what I would consider as beautiful gospel message below, a work of God's belief (work of faith) that created a peace that surpasses all human understanding as a hope beyond the hope seen of this world.

For God, who commanded (a work of faith) the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death worketh in us, but life in you We having the same spirit of faith(Christ's) , according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;2Co 4:6

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrew 11:6, "For without the faith it is impossible to please Him; for he who comes to YHWH must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by the faith (H#530 faith/faithfulness)."

faith H#530 Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness

faith H#530 Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Feminine of H0529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity:—faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.

Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament) #530. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]אֱמוּנָה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
emunah (53c); from 539; firmness, steadfastness, fidelity[/FONT]​

 

[1ofthem]

Yay! I do great with point-blank. lol

Back to original question then (without the hyperbole.) Are you saying Satan created evil or does evil? That's the part I'm not getting -- the "create" thingy.

And, really! I could well be missing what you meant all along, but when I get stuck, you need a crowbar to unstick me. Might even need some butter.

James 1:13-15

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he anyman:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted,when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1Peter 5:8-10

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But the God of all grace,who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

 

[Depleted]

James 1:13-15

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he anyman:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted,when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1Peter 5:8-10

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But the God of all grace,who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Your lack-of-answer to my last question to you was an answer. Given you're out to argue, don't mind me when I'm not out to argue with you. I've got no problems arguing points/ideas, but I no longer argue just to argue.

 

[1ofthem]

Your lack-of-answer to my last question to you was an answer. Given you're out to argue, don't mind me when I'm not out to argue with you. I've got no problems arguing points/ideas, but I no longer argue just to argue.

Sorry if you feel that way because I’m not out to argue with you and that is the reason I specifically didn’t answer your question to me. I’m ignoring things like that from here on out because like I said earlier I’m not going down that road anymore…I’m simply not interested in the games. They only lead to ungodliness.

If you want to discuss the Bible then we can discuss the Bible… like you, I have no problems with that…But when I post something, and someone posts something back to try to undermine my intention and just assumes I have an ulterior motive then I’m simply going to ignore it. I’m not here to defend my honor or anything…I’m just here to discuss the Bible with others.

I am not your enemy, but if you want to assume I am out to get you then that’s on you.

Like I said before, there are no hard feelings here.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No person comes to to the Son,unless the Father draws them.

No person says Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost.

Every person that confesses Jesus Christ is come in flesh,is of God.

Many are called,but few are chosen,and not many wise after the flesh,and not many mighty,and not many noble,are called.

God knows the heart condition of every person on earth,and if their heart condition is in the right position,God will call them,and work with them to go towards the truth.

We have to have faith when we confess Christ,but God intervened in our life to make it easier to go in the direction of truth,so while we have to have faith,there is help from God to see the truth more clearly than on our own.

But this faith still has to come from us,but God helped us along the way when He called us,but not as much help as a person that has received the Spirit.

When a person receives the Spirit then they have more help,and witness,that can increase their faith,for the Spirit will show them things,and work in their life,that exceeds when they were called,when God was working with them.

When a person is called,God works with them to get them to the truth,but the faith still has to come from them,but they had help from God,for no person comes to the Son,unless the Father draws them,but after they have the Spirit,then their faith will increase,for God is working a lot more in their life than when they were first called.

God gets the glory for us being saved,when we are first called,until we receive the Spirit,that is why He chose us,we did not choose Him,for before we knew God in the truth,God called us,and worked with us,and we could of not gotten to the truth with His intervention.

Many claim Christianity,but not all got to the point of truth,but many have been called,and they can still have the opportunity to see truth,for God will still work with them.

Many are called,but few are chosen,for not everybody that has been called get to the point of being chosen,for they never accepted the truth,and received the truth,although their heart condition was right enough to be called.

this is far more balanced and more along the lines of what the Bible actually states

you have to cherry pick verse in order to support quite a bit of what 'the reformed' among like to snarl at those who disagree with them

it is obvious that there are different or varying degrees of faith

now if Jesus gives us our faith, that would mean He is has favorites or we would all have the same amount

if we all had the faith of Jesus, we would all have perfect faith

but those obvious things are ignored because they do not fit in with 'reformed' thinking

thank God, the men who wrote the Bible were not reformed

 

[7seasrekeyed]

But if God is in control of everything where does "of evil" come from?
And "won't draw to God" if He doesn't give them the desire to?

this is not true. this is what Calvinism teaches

God is not 'in control' of everything. that would mean he causes a child to cross the street and be run over

we have a choice...WHOSOEVER will. Calvinists believe we have no choice

it seems you are having difficulty with the idea presented by the reformers...that is actually a good thing...shows you are thinking for yourself

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Thank you IamWhoIam and Matt cuz it was sounding kinda crazy like God just decided who zHr would save and who He would not save.

that is exactly what the reformers here are saying

I don't know why, but it seems they cannot just disagree with others who do not believe as they do

they get downright nasty and twist what is said or act religious about it and ignore you

I'm ignoring them because I don't need to deal with certain members here who seem to get their jollies by hurting others and then others agree because of some private pm spat that others don't know about

which is why I have turned off my pm and friends options. can't be bothered with the drama anymore or people who friend you and then rend you

whatever

 

[Depleted]

Sorry if you feel that way because I’m not out to argue with you and that is the reason I specifically didn’t answer your question to me. I’m ignoring things like that from here on out because like I said earlier I’m not going down that road anymore…I’m simply not interested in the games. They only lead to ungodliness.

If you want to discuss the Bible then we can discuss the Bible… like you, I have no problems with that…But when I post something, and someone posts something back to try to undermine my intention and just assumes I have an ulterior motive then I’m simply going to ignore it. I’m not here to defend my honor or anything…I’m just here to discuss the Bible with others.

I am not your enemy, but if you want to assume I am out to get you then that’s on you.

Like I said before, there are no hard feelings here.

Nice. You ask about Calvinism and then back pedal into "If you want to discuss the Bible then we can discuss the Bible." Seems like a game to me.

Considering the OP was where do people get this idea that faith comes from God, sticking specifically to the Bible wasn't part of the thread's purpose.

 

[Depleted]

that is exactly what the reformers here are saying

I don't know why, but it seems they cannot just disagree with others who do not believe as they do

they get downright nasty and twist what is said or act religious about it and ignore you

I'm ignoring them because I don't need to deal with certain members here who seem to get their jollies by hurting others and then others agree because of some private pm spat that others don't know about

which is why I have turned off my pm and friends options. can't be bothered with the drama anymore or people who friend you and then rend you

whatever

You're the only one here just to attack. You brought no insight into the subject matter, just the attacks. And then on your merry way, until the next time you can poke your stick.

Okay, obviously, this has all dwindled down to "I'm right, you're wrong, and stupid too." So, nothing more to talk about.

 

[garee]

Your lack-of-answer to my last question to you was an answer. Given you're out to argue, don't mind me when I'm not out to argue with you. I've got no problems arguing points/ideas, but I no longer argue just to argue.

It goes right back to "whose faith" does the work..... that of God as the things of God, or that of men after the imagination of their own hearts that cannot see past the horizon as to whether it drops off ?

Whose work of faith as a labor of Love created that in what we do see? who faith worked in Abraham to make the work of faith perfect as imputed?

Was Abraham accredited with the work of faith when he offered Isaac ? Was it Christ in him the treasure of power not of us working to both will and do His good pleasure .Or do we blaspheme the Holy name by which we called heavenward as if it was after Abraham .

Who willed Abraham to do the work ..his own self? Who willed Rahab moving her by faith? Who wills us if not the same spirit of faith according as it is written? ?

(Purple) in parenthesis my personal comments

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith (Christ's) wrought with his (Christ's) works, and by works was (Christ's) faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness:(not a righteousness of Abraham's own) and he was called the Friend of God.Jam 2:21

 

[7seasrekeyed]

There's just too many "your faiths" in the new testament for me:

what I have been saying all along