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Thread: Why did God hate Esau?

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    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Good did not hate Esau, he loved him less, God chose Jacob to do something special. His, he loved jacob more,

    Plus in Malachi where that is sad, HS not talking about 2 kids, but two nations, he love Israel more than he did Edom.
    In Lk 14:26 misei is perfect active indicative, which should be interpreted love less.

    In Ro 9:13 emishsa is a special use of the aorist which signifies 'continuously outside of time' this usage must be understood as despised.
    Depleted likes this.
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    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Personally, I would have preferred Esau as a friend, rather than Jacob. Esau was a happy-go-lucky kind of guy, and very forgiving of his bro for doing a really stinky trick. Jacob was a conniving wuss. He put his family in danger, rather than face his brother himself.

    As for God's hatred of Esau? Enough that he totally destroyed Edom -- all of Esau's decedents were completely wiped out. Archaeologists found the city and there was absolutely no evidence that invaders came. They couldn't come. Impenetrable. Three sides up on a straight cliff that went down into the sea, and the fourth side could only be attacked by going through something like a cattle chute, made of a cannon. There was no seeable reason those people were gone, but they were. So God hates in mighty ways. Taking it down to his descendants.

    But God has said it over and over again -- and shown it -- he takes the weak, the useless, the fools. And he does that to turn them into his princes and princesses for his glory.

    I feel bad for Esau, but so very glad he chose me.
    Obadiah 1, the entire chapter. When does this happen? Or has it already happened? Does anybody have accounts of the history? Maybe it's end time prophecy. I really don't know.
    1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.
    2 Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised.
    3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?
    4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord.
    5 If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes?
    6 How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!
    7 All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him.
    8 Shall I not in that day, saith the Lord, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?
    9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.
    10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.
    11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.
    12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
    13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;
    14 Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.
    15 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
    16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.
    17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.
    18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it.
    19 And they of the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and they of the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin shall possess Gilead.
    20 And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south.
    21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.



    Last edited by unobtrusive; 1 Week Ago at 06:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    Jacob loved Rachel and 'hated' Leah. Far better would it be to translate the words, 'not loved' or 'loved less'.
    I would think to not bless, hate by not performing the work of blessing , or to bless, love as action that comes from following not feelings. Likable feelings can be a bonus but not the cause
    unobtrusive likes this.

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    Obadiah 1, the entire chapter. When does this happen? Or has it already happened? Does anybody have accounts of the history? Maybe it's end time prophecy. I really don't know.
    1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.
    2 Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised.
    3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?
    4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord.
    5 If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes?
    6 How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!
    7 All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him.
    8 Shall I not in that day, saith the Lord, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?
    9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.
    10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.
    11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.
    12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
    13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;
    14 Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.
    15 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
    16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.
    17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.
    18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it.
    19 And they of the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and they of the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin shall possess Gilead.
    20 And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south.
    21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.



    Pretty cool! So their pride was the city, huh? I can see me doing that.

    When did it happen? No idea. Back in the 1990s, (I only remember that, because I remember which chair I was sitting in when I was reading it), I bought a subscription to a biblical archaeologist journal. (Four articles per journal, yet the journal was thick. It was one of those review-by-peers journals. Didn't even have many, if any, ads in it. ) I read it back then.

    Sorry. I tend to remember what I read a bit, but not always where I read it or the name of the article. Sadly, I never remember the name of the author. I could blame this on old age, but I was the same in grade school. lol
    unobtrusive likes this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    I know that God is not a respecter of persons, and that Esau was just as much of a child of Abraham and Isaac as was Jacob. Yet the Bible seems to make it clear that there was a great difference between God's attitude of loving Jacob and hating Esau.

    Now selling his birthright to Jacob, Esau is not hated as a person as mentioned in Hebrews 12:16, but is used as an example for us to not be a "profane person, (crossing the line/threshold) as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright."

    What did he do so wrong that he couldn't repent?

    I know that Esau's descendants are called Edomites, but God specifically told Israel that Edom was their brother and to treat them with respect in Deuteronomy 2:2-5, and 23:7-8.
    I know this cannot be a double standard according to righteousness.

    Was it Esau as a person that God hated, or what Edom represented?


    Romans 9:10-13 NASB
    10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;
    11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would remain, not from works but from Him who calls,
    12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.”
    13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

    Could this be much more than just selling out, going over the line so far as bringing a person to the point of not being able to repent?
    Consider the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living.

    Now consider what makes a vessel unto dishonor in His House; unrepentant iniquity.

    Can the vessels unto dishonor have a place of honor at the Marriage Supper table at the pre trib rapture event? No.

    That's what makes one a vessel unto dishonor as they are reprobates; disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper, and thus castaways; left behind at the pre trib rapture event to be received later on after the great tribulation.

    That is why the call is given out to every one having His seal ( even former believers ) to go before that throne of grace for help to discern the lies that turned them away as well as the works of darkness; the iniquity that they need His help for in departing from so as to be ready for the Bridegroom before He comes so they can be received as vessels unto honor.

    Romans 9: 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    I believe the vessels of wrath are the same as the vessels unto dishonor that will be in His House to show the power of God in salvation for even those who believed in His name whereas the riches of His glory will be shown in the vessels of mercy which are the vessels unto honor in His House.

    So like Esau that sold his birthright for a meal, so is the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living, but although he can never have that first inheritance back to be a vessel unto honor, he is still son.

    How would you feel if your son gave up what you had stored as treasure for him to enjoy, but he gave it up for vomit? You would hate what he had done, even though he is still son.

    Here's hoping everybody reading this is asking Jesus for help as their Good Shepherd to discern lies & iniquity to depart from it with His help as we can only lay aside every weight & sin by looking to the author & finisher of our faith in running that race to be readied by Him to be received by Him as vessels unto honor in His House.

    Thanks to Jesus Christ being my Good Shepherd, He is enabling me to rely on Him for everything in bringing me Home above.

    Last edited by Enow; 1 Week Ago at 02:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by unobtrusive View Post
    Would that be the time of the Ottoman Empire you think?
    Teman was the grandson of Esau (Genesis 36:1-11).
    Obadiah 9 refers to him as “O Teman.”


    This is how the Turks got the name Ottoman.
    The Ottoman Turks ruled the Middle East for about 400 years.
    That rule ended just before World War ii.
    Karraster and unobtrusive like this.

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Obadiah utterly condemned Esau, or Edom (Genesis 25:30; 36:1, 8).
    But how does Esau relate to us today? It's about His END-TIME Church

    “The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi” (Malachi 1:1).
    The word burden here means a prophetic oracle—or warning.
    Malachi 4:5-6 shows this is an end-time book.

    Why or what reason that God discussed Esau in the book of Malachi?
    This book is actualy a strong rebuke for God’s own Church today.

    Why Jacob and Esau? They were twin brothers who had a long history of war.
    If we apply this to the Church today, the main problem is family division.
    His message is primarily for God’s divided Church today

    (Malachi 1: 4-6). There is deep spiritual division in God’s Family,
    just as there was deep division between Jacob and Esau!

    Both Jacob and Esau dishonored their father. There is a spiritual counterpart today.
    God’s Laodicean Family dishonors Him in this end time, as Jacob and Esau did.

    When Jacob was converted, His name was changed to Israel.
    So Jacob represents an unconverted attitude in God’s own Church today.

    But Esau represents an even worse attitude. God has “indignation for ever” against
    him! He was incorrigible. And many of God’s people are becoming that way today!
    Only a small minority of God’s people serve Him in the end time (Malachi 3:16).

    God’s firstfruits have been called out of this world (John 6:44).
    They now have a birthright to be the Bride of Christ (Revelation 19:7).

    But like Esau, many of God’s people are selling their birthright for a bowl of soup.
    Fifty percent of God’s people today are going to lose their salvation (Matthew 25:1-13).

    Obadiah means worshiper of God. That is all we know about this prophet.
    The “vision” of Obadiah is a technical term for an end-time prophecy.

    Verse 21 states that it is a time just before God’s Kingdom rules this Earth—
    obviously the time we are living in right now. Verse 15 states that “the day of the Lord
    is near.” So this sets the time frame for Obadiah’s message.

    “The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom;
    We have heard a rumour[report] from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among
    the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle” (Obadiah 1).

    Turkey is the modern-day nation of Edom. This prophecy may well apply to betrayals
    of Jacob—or Israel—by Turkey, but the primary meaning is directed to a spiritual Esau.

    The physical man Edom and God’s Laodicean Church today both received a birthright
    promise from God. Edom was accepted into God’s congregation (Deuteronomy 23:7-8).

    Edom has a history of betraying the nations of Jacob, or Israel. The historian Josephus
    records that 20,000 Edomites, or Idumeans, were accepted as defenders of Jerusalem in
    a.d. 70. Once inside, betrayed the Jews by robbing and killing them—their own brothers!

    The book of Obadiah applies to the nation of Turkey. But also a type of what will
    happen to the incorrigible Laodiceans in this end time church.

    They are going to betray their spiritual brother—their own family.

    Esau is referred to in the masculine gender every place in Obadiah, except verse 1.
    Here Esau is referred to as her. this prophecy is actually referring to as a church.

    Esau drank upon God’s holy mountain, Only God’s Church drinks spiritually upon God’s
    holy mountain today. the Laodicean era, Half of God’s Laodiceans are selling their
    birthright as Esau did! The other half is being very deceptive about working to receive
    that birthright, just as Jacob was! Today, God is warning His spiritual birthright people.

    “Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised.
    The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock,
    whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?

    “Who shall bring me down to the ground?”—a proud and defiant question.
    These Laodiceans are so proud, they refuse to hear God’s warning message.

    The Hebrew word for rock in Obadiah 3 is sela. In Greek, rock is translated as petra.
    The capital of ancient Edom was Petra. Today, Petra is located in the southern part of Jordan.

    petra which means a large massive rock. Christ—Matt 7:24,Matt 16:18,27:60 , 1 Cor 10:4

    The Edomites found it to be the best place to protect themselves from their enemies. It was so
    good that their pride led them to believe they were invulnerable. That attitude led their downfall.

    Edom “dwellest in the clefts of the rock.” The Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon defines
    clefts this way: “places of refuge in the rocks (perhaps dwellings carved in the rocks) …”

    Petra could be the place God uses to protect His Church during the Great Tribulation .
    Rev12:12, 14. - The clefts are “places of refuge” in this prophecy,

    Jesus spoke of the man who built his house on a rock. The Greek word is petra
    These Laodiceans are “blind” and “have need of nothing” (Revelation 3:17).
    Perhaps Petra is used to indicate how secure they feel about their spiritual welfare.

    “Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars,
    thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord” (Obadiah 4). In Revelation 12:14, we see
    that God’s people are going to be taken to a place of safety on “two wings of a great eagle.”

    The Laodiceans think they have this miraculous help from God, but they don’t. Obadiah
    says they are exalted as the eagle. But these lukewarm Christians are in for a rocky fall.

    God is going to bring them down.

    There is a small riverbed in Petra called the Wadi Mousa. Recently, the water was cut off
    and it is now dry. This is exactly what has happened to the Edomite Laodiceans, spiritually.

    Water is a type of God’s Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39). Wadi Mousa in English means
    “stream or river of Moses.” Apparently, Moses spent time in Petra.

    “Shall I not in that day, saith the Lord, even destroy the wise men out of Edom,
    and understanding out of the mount of Esau?” (Obadiah 8).

    Jeremiah also has a version of Obadiah’s message in Jeremiah 49:7: “Concerning Edom,
    thus saith the Lord of hosts; Is wisdom no more in Teman? is counsel perished from the
    prudent? is their wisdom vanished?” Here is what Barnes’ commentary relates this verse:

    “He speaks as though Edom were a known abode of human wisdom, so that it was strange
    that it was found there no more. He speaks of the Edomites ‘as prudent,’ discriminating,
    full of judgment, and wonders that counsel should have ‘perished’ from them. They had it
    eminently then, before it perished. They thought themselves wise; they were thought so;
    but God took it away at there utmost need".

    “Flee ye, turn back, dwell deep, O inhabitants of Dedan; for I will bring the calamity of
    Esau upon him, the time that I will visit him” (verse 8). Dedan was Esau’s commercial ally.
    Its inhabitants were told to flee, or suffer Esau’s fate!

    “But I have made Esau bare, I have uncovered his secret places, and he shall not be able
    to hide himself: his seed is spoiled, and his brethren, and his neighbours, and he is not.
    Leave thy fatherless children, I will preserve them alive; and let thy widows trust in me”
    (Jeremiah 49:10-11). Esau fell apart, just as the Edomite Laodiceans are collapsing today

    In this end time, these Laodiceans have rejected God the Father and Jesus Christ their
    Husband! They have no spiritual Father or Husband. Spiritually they are orphans and widows

    In Jeremiah 49:10, God says of Esau, “he is not.” That is where these rebellious saints
    are headed—to a condition of “he is not”—forever!

    God tells the leaders to “[l]eave thy fatherless children, I will preserve them alive.”
    This means that many of these leaders have moved beyond being saved spiritually!
    God makes no appeal to them! They are already lost.

    “Thy terribleness hath deceived thee”. These people don’t see how horrendously terrible
    they have been toward God and their brethren. And most of them refuse to hear God’s warning.

    “And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of
    the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter” (Obadiah 9)

    Teman was the grandson of Esau (Genesis 36:1-11). Obadiah 9 refers to him as “O Teman.”
    This refers to the 50 percent of the Laodiceans who are going to lose their salvation.
    Thankfully, 50 percent of them will repent in the Great Tribulation.

    “For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut
    off for ever” (Obadiah 10). This is not referring to their physical lives.
    Notice, they will be cut off forever. They will lose their eternal lives.

    It is very likely that the name of Esau, or Turkey, will be cut off forever because of its
    treachery to the nations of Jacob. But this verse says thou, or you—Esau—shall be “cut
    off for ever.” This could only refer to God’s own Laodicean Church in this end time—

    Church members losing their eternal lives!It appears that their greatest shame will be
    what they do in the future to their Laodicean brothers (Jacob).

    “In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away
    captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even
    thou wast as one of them” (Obadiah 11).

    We know God’s repentant Laodiceans reject the mark of the beast.
    They are killed for doing so (Revelation 12:11, 17; 13:15).

    The Edomite Laodiceans accept the mark of the beast. This is the day that they “stoodest
    on the other side.” They were “as one of them”—the beast power. They went from God’s
    side to Satan’s side! These treacherous Laodiceans are in the grip of Satan.

    (Obadiah 12-14). The Edomite Laodiceans “entered into the gate of my people”—God’s
    Church! They “stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his [Family] that did escape.”
    The Edomite Laodiceans kept their own spiritual Family from escaping physical death.
    They helped the beast power capture God’s repentant Laodiceans and kill them physically.

    The people who once loved God now hate Him and His people.

    “For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done
    unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head” (Obadiah 15). When this is all
    being fulfilled, it is a time when “the day of the Lord is near.”

    God states that Esau has “drunk upon my holy mountain.” This is where God’s temple is.
    Physical Esau, or Turkey, has never drunk upon God’s holy mountain in this end time!
    This verse does not make sense unless you apply it spiritually today.

    These Laodiceans will “be as though they had not been.” It’s going to be as if they were never
    born—completely destroyed! They will be left with “neither root nor branch” (Malachi 4:1).
    Malachi is discussing the same Edomite Laodiceans.

    “And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau
    for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining
    of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it” (verse 18). None will remain alive from the
    house of Esau! They will be only stubble—ashes under the saints’ feet (Malachi 4:3).

    God’s Laodiceans desperately need to see that their spiritual lives are in serious jeopardy!

    “And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau;
    and the kingdom shall be the Lord’s” (Obadiah 21).

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    This is a 'quick' run through Jacob's life, showing the events and locations in the order they happened. I hope you find it useful. 30 minutes long and it covers the second half of Genesis.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6FBHOacyHs

    Last edited by BibleExplorer; 1 Week Ago at 02:33 AM.
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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”
    Malachi 1:2-3

    Here is the prophet speaking Gods word, about the descendants of Esau and Jacob.

    There is no explanation or justification of the difference in attitude, just that there
    was one.

    The Lord then goes on to then explain why He hates people and their approach to worship,
    truth and morality. So Edom is a wicked place.
    And the warning to Israel is that they too will be judged if they stay in this sin.

    So God did not hate Esau but the people of Edom because of their behaviour.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Senior Member unobtrusive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by prove-all View Post
    Obadiah utterly condemned Esau, or Edom (Genesis 25:30; 36:1, 8).
    But how does Esau relate to us today? It's about His END-TIME Church

    “The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi” (Malachi 1:1).
    The word burden here means a prophetic oracle—or warning.
    Malachi 4:5-6 shows this is an end-time book.

    Why or what reason that God discussed Esau in the book of Malachi?
    This book is actualy a strong rebuke for God’s own Church today.

    Why Jacob and Esau? They were twin brothers who had a long history of war.
    If we apply this to the Church today, the main problem is family division.
    His message is primarily for God’s divided Church today
    I'm not quoting all that you wrote, even though it was very informative. see this post #47

    Your post spurred me on to this web site this morning..

    It mentions "Herbert Armstrong" which I really never took very seriously, but that's not what this small booklet is about. It is about the division in the church, in relation to the church in Revelation named Laodicea, the church age that we are in today, despite disagreements that may follow in this particular thread.

    Revelation 3:14-16
    14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

    15
    I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

    16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


    From what I have seen with your post, and the website above, is that Esau/Edom/Teman (an Edomite clan), represent religions today that, by man's doctrines, made void much of God's Word given, saying Jesus has replaced a lot of His own Father's instructions.

    Not only that, I'm beginning to entertain the thought that a (so called) "mid-tribulation rapture" actually could be possible, we being changed, caught up into the clouds for 42 months, and then come with Jesus, back to earth, as He sets up His kingdom here, called the "New Jerusalem."
    Last edited by unobtrusive; 1 Week Ago at 09:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Israel & Edom......Jacob & Esau....I see a remarkable resemblance to the division here in CC (i.e. family of God). It should give us all pause before we contribute to determine whether we are defending the faith or a contrived doctrine of man. The contrived doctrine of man comes from the sons of Esau, spiritually speaking.

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Romans 9:

    12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

    13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.



    My :


    Vs 12 takes place before the birth of Esau and Jacob. No mention that God loves Jacob over Esau; or that God hates Esau but loves Jacob.

    Vs 13 – where is this written? Malachi 1:2-3. After full fruition of the progeny of Esau.


    Esau was rebellious and was a profane person. He married Judith, the daughter of Geeri the Hittite, and Bashemath, the daughter of Elon the Hittite, which grieved Isaac and Rebekah (Gen 26:34-35). In Gen 28, Jacob told Isaac not to marry a Canaanite woman. Jacob did what Isaac told him to do and went to Padanaram (Gen 28:7). When Esau saw that the women of Canaan did not please Isaac, he went to Ishmael and married Mahalath, the daughter of Ishmael.

    Esau's descendants were just as rebellious as Esau.

    God did not make the statement "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" before Esau was born. God made the statement after Esau / Edom had fully matured and was shown to be rebellious toward God.
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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”[Romans 9:11-13]

    God chose Jacob over Esau before they were born, so that God's purpose according to HIS choice(not man's choice) would stand.

    And God hated Esau, not this love less stuff being purported. By that logic, God loves us a little more than Satan and those angels who fell with him.
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    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by reneweddaybyday View Post
    Romans 9:

    12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

    13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.



    My :


    Vs 12 takes place before the birth of Esau and Jacob. No mention that God loves Jacob over Esau; or that God hates Esau but loves Jacob.

    Vs 13 – where is this written? Malachi 1:2-3. After full fruition of the progeny of Esau.


    Esau was rebellious and was a profane person. He married Judith, the daughter of Geeri the Hittite, and Bashemath, the daughter of Elon the Hittite, which grieved Isaac and Rebekah (Gen 26:34-35). In Gen 28, Jacob told Isaac not to marry a Canaanite woman. Jacob did what Isaac told him to do and went to Padanaram (Gen 28:7). When Esau saw that the women of Canaan did not please Isaac, he went to Ishmael and married Mahalath, the daughter of Ishmael.

    Esau's descendants were just as rebellious as Esau.

    God did not make the statement "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" before Esau was born. God made the statement after Esau / Edom had fully matured and was shown to be rebellious toward God.
    All the rebellion Esau did was because God had left him to himself, not that he acted rebelliously and then God acted accordingly.

    God does not react to man's actions. He acts and then they react.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”[Romans 9:11-13]

    God chose Jacob over Esau before they were born, so that God's purpose according to HIS choice(not man's choice) would stand.

    And God hated Esau, not this love less stuff being purported. By that logic, God loves us a little more than Satan and those angels who fell with him.
    I think that the Jacob-Esau thing goes much further than those two as individuals. It extends into our present time, in relation to the last church age. Anti-Semitism plays a big part. I even think the the war story in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are also an Esau relationship. I actually think that Edom represents people (individuals or nations) who have lost out on any hope of salvation because they are purposefully, or inadvertently dominated by the evil spirits (plural) of satanic influence, and totally refuse to change. Remember that Jacob and Esau are/were family, just like the church/kingdom of God should be. All scripture should put a mirror in our own face. Food for thought.
    Last edited by unobtrusive; 1 Week Ago at 05:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    God does not react to man's actions. He acts and then they react.
    Oh, I don't know about that, SovereignGrace.

    Look at Roman 1:18-32. Those who are given over to a reprobate mind (Rom 1:28) go through several steps.

    Rom 1:18-32 doesn't say they suppress the truth in unrighteousness then BOOM they are given over to a reprobate mind (Rom 1:28).

    The reprobate mind happens gradually, over a period of time:

    Vs 21 – foolish heart becomes darkened

    Vs 24 – God gives them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts

    Vs 26 – God gives them up to vile affections

    Then,

    Vs 28 – God gives them over to a reprobate mind


    And please don't get me wrong. I do not believe God makes their heart darkened, or that God makes them unclean, etc.

    I believe God holds on to these people as long as He can but because of their behavior, He loosens His hold on them. Not because He wants to let them go but because they want Him to let them go so they can partake of those things which should not ought to be partaken of.

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    This thread has certainly been an eye opener for the end times ... many thanks
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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”[Romans 9:11-13]

    God chose Jacob over Esau before they were born, so that God's purpose according to HIS choice(not man's choice) would stand.

    And God hated Esau, not this love less stuff being purported. By that logic, God loves us a little more than Satan and those angels who fell with him.

    1. god chose Jacob before they were born, so no no could say the nation of Israel was born according to mans standard. (I.e., it was normal that first child born got birthright, Israel was chosen based on God, not mans standard, God left no one excuse
    2. God chose Israel not based on how righteous the fathers were (when romans was written, Jews believ d God chose them based on how righteous their fathers were, Paul shut down that argument cold)
    3. God loved Israel more than he loved edom (take Malachi in context, it was not spoken of kids but nations)
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    1. god chose Jacob before they were born, so no no could say the nation of Israel was born according to mans standard. (I.e., it was normal that first child born got birthright, Israel was chosen based on God, not mans standard, God left no one excuse
    2. God chose Israel not based on how righteous the fathers were (when romans was written, Jews believ d God chose them based on how righteous their fathers were, Paul shut down that argument cold)
    3. God loved Israel more than he loved edom (take Malachi in context, it was not spoken of kids but nations)
    Totally correct my friend!!!

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    Cool Re: Why did God hate Esau?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    And be careful with psalms 5:5. Jacob was no choir boy, he committed lots of iniquity, so according from psalms,
    Genesis32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Iacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God, and with men, and hast preuailed.

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