Sin Confession: A Waste of Breath?

[Nehemiah6]

Thats a different story. What about Acts 28:7-8

What about Acts 28? Publius was NOT a believer when he was healed. But we are talking about sin in the believer's life and fellowship with God. And you are bringing a healing miracle into this discussion (which has no relevance).

The healing miracles of Christ and the apostles were for all and sundry, in order to authenticate the Gospel and bring sinners to the Savior. James is addressing the issue of sin and healing in the believer's life. And even for those whom Christ healed, the command was "Go and sin no more". Even Jesus connected physical ailments with sins.

The reason James was quoted is because you indicated that confession and forgiveness are not related when it comes to a Christian's present sins. But Scripture contradicts that position by telling us that "IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins..." Do you see the "IF" "THEN" connection? So what is the corollary? If we do not confess, then we do not receive forgiveness either.

 

[BenFTW]

What about Acts 28? Publius was NOT a believer when he was healed. But we are talking about sin in the believer's life and fellowship with God. And you are bringing a healing miracle into this discussion (which has no relevance).

The healing miracles of Christ and the apostles were for all and sundry, in order to authenticate the Gospel and bring sinners to the Savior. James is addressing the issue of sin and healing in the believer's life. And even for those whom Christ healed, the command was "Go and sin no more". Even Jesus connected physical ailments with sins.

The reason James was quoted is because you indicated that confession and forgiveness are not related when it comes to a Christian's present sins. But Scripture contradicts that position by telling us that "IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins..." Do you see the "IF" "THEN" connection? So what is the corollary? If we do not confess, then we do not receive forgiveness either.

So if we don't confess our sins and we do not receive forgiveness, what was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross and shedding His blood? Did it not grant remission to our sins? Did He not reconcile us to God by tearing the veil in two? Did He not take care of what alienated us from God? What exactly did Jesus accomplish if the whole basis of our relationship with God, not only in the sense of fellowship but salvation itself, hinges upon our confessing of sins? Is Jesus my savior, or has He simply passed me the baton?

 

[joaniemarie]

Frances didn't have a chat site to go to and write on but she was strong in her faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work just as much as anyone here. And many here would appose what she had to share in her journals if she dared post here.

So this is encouraging here because we are not alone or on some "fringe" of popular new heresy as some would have you believe. No., we are sharing the truth that many many other saints over the years and in the world today have also found and share. And we also want to share the good news of our righteousness in Christ. We can't ever get enough of the truth. And we will be learning it until we leave this planet.

The Bible says for us to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen!

 

[Nehemiah6]

So if we don't confess our sins and we do not receive forgiveness, what was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross and shedding His blood?

Here we go again: GOSPEL TRUTH vs FELLOWSHIP TRUTH

GOSPEL TRUTH =SINNER COMES TO THE SAVIOR FOR SALVATION (INCLUDING REMISSION OF SINS)

FELLOWSHIP TRUTH = SAINT COMES TO THE FATHER FOR FELLOWSHIP THROUGH CONFESSION OF PRESENT SINS

Did it not grant remission to our sins?

Remission for past sins -- "sins that are past". what about your present sins? Or are you sinlessly perfect?


“Whom God hath set forth to be

a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness ​

for the remission of sins that are past

, through the forbearance of God;” (Rom 3:25)​

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Why do I have to confess my sins for forgiveness when Jesus as my High Priest was the last and once and for all sacrifice for sin? Not only this, scripture says that He isn't like the priests of old having to often sacrifice for his sins and the people's sins, otherwise He would've suffered since the foundation of the world (since He, Himself, is that very sacrifice; Hebrews 9:25-28).

So, Jesus' blood isn't like the blood of bulls and goats, it actually takes away sin (Hebrews 10:4,10-14). The penalty is paid. There is no other means by which forgiveness of sin occurs, because the shedding of blood must occur in order for sins to experience remission (Hebrews 9:22). Jesus shed His blood for the remission of our sins. Hence, forgiveness for any and all present sin.

If our sin is not forgiven, not to be said without reverence, Christ would have to get back on the cross according to scripture, but as scripture also says, His blood isn't like that of the sacrificial animals and He is an eternal priest, our High Priest (not dying like previous priests and with an eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek). This means that He is able to save us completely because He lives forever interceding on our behalf (Hebrews 7:25).

There are points being made here, but also a question to consider. I understand repentance is still necessary in this life, especially in consideration of things pertaining to life. What we are going to experience, consequences and benefits, etc. Why under the New Covenant would a person seek out forgiveness from God through sin confession when in Christ and through Christ [as our High Priest] we have the forgiveness of sin, and our sins through the shedding of Christ's blood have experienced remission?

Why ask for what we already have? The NT clearly says to forgive others because God for Christ's sake has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). So, instead of glorifying the Advocate and our High Priest, who is the propitiation (the appeasement, if you will) for our sins, as 1 John 2 emphasizes to the "beloved" (that's you and me), why would we make the forgiveness of sin something we have to attain instead of a reality we walk in through Jesus Christ? Why seek forgiveness on an eternal scale through any other avenue than God's Son, in the New Covenant?

PS: This was a response to another thread that I felt could make a good topic. Since I've been thinking of making this thread lately, I decided to copy it from http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/158908-christians-under-grace.html#post3301201 and create this post.

in 1 John 1:9, the word "confess" means to say the same thing as another; to agree. So when we "confess" our sins, we say the same thing as God concerning said sin ... we agree with God concerning sin and we agree with God that He has forgiven our sins and it is God Who cleanses us from all unrighteousness (iow it is not our confession which cleanses us, it is God Who cleanses us).

When we are chastened by our Heavenly Father, we are to run to Him and agree with Him, we are to be exercised by His chastening and have the peaceable fruit of righteousness in our lives.

I also apologize to God and tell Him how sorry I am to have tried to walk on my own ... for what is sin but our turning our back on God and His provision for us in this life. We try to find our own way through this life without Him ... can't be done.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Only God's Word is true.....

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins , he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Psalm 32:5
I acknowledge my sin unto thee , and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgave the iniquity o f my sin. Selah.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covers his sins shall not prosper : but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

John 12:44-48
44, Jesus cried and said, He that believes on me, believes not on me, but on him that sent me. 45, And he that sees me sees him that sent me. 46, I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48, He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 3:19-21
19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20, For every one that does evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21, But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Some believe God while others follow the word of website... Who will you believe?


God's Sheep hear His Voice....

 

[BenFTW]

Here we go again: GOSPEL TRUTH vs FELLOWSHIP TRUTH

GOSPEL TRUTH =SINNER COMES TO THE SAVIOR FOR SALVATION (INCLUDING REMISSION OF SINS)

FELLOWSHIP TRUTH = SAINT COMES TO THE FATHER FOR FELLOWSHIP THROUGH CONFESSION OF PRESENT SINS

Remission for past sins -- "sins that are past". what about your present sins? Or are you sinlessly perfect?


“Whom God hath set forth to be

a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness ​

for the remission of sins that are past

, through the forbearance of God;” (Rom 3:25)​

What you are trying to express is known as "parental forgiveness." There is no such thing with God because Jesus has torn the veil in two. He took care of what alienated us from God. That is, He paid for our sin and now our sins of scarlet are as white as snow. God doesn't impute our sin to us, we have an Advocate with the Father. He remembers them no more. The basis for "fellowship truth" is not found in scripture, what is found is that we are reconciled to God forevermore.

 

[joaniemarie]

We are supposed to be remembering Jesus not us. Jesus is the one who died on the cross and shed His blood for us so we do not have to depend on the keeping of the law to get us to God the Father. We have Jesus who did all that was required. God wants us to acknowledge His Son. All we have as believers is because of Jesus and what He did for us.

He didn't do all that He did so we could be better law keepers. He did it so we could be beloved sons and daughters walking in forgiveness and newness of life. Not striving to GET forgiveness and newness of life. So many Christians just don't see this major change of covenants Jesus brought us into when He went to the cross. Many Christians are trying to sew up the veil that was "rent in two" by keeping the law of Moses.

2 Cor.3:16 Whenever a man turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.


We no longer need to wear a veil we have FREE AND CLEAR access to the Father through His Son Jesus. We got that free access when we got born again.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Any person who doesn't confess their sins is in darkness. Therefore you are living under a voided Cross. 1 John 1:5-10 NKJV, 1 Corinthians 1:17-25 NKJV

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

 

[BenFTW]

Any person who doesn't confess their sins is in darkness. Therefore you are living under a voided Cross. 1 John 1:5-10 NKJV, 1 Corinthians 1:17-25 NKJV

Who said people aren't confessing their sins? My argument, again, is not with transparency before God. What are we confessing for, and why? Most would say for forgiveness. I am challenging that premise with scripture, and not one person has addressed the scripture I have provided. The case has been made. Refute it if the conclusion doesn't logically follow. I didn't take scripture out of context, or anything of the sort. Its a step by step understanding.

 

[joaniemarie]

Exactly one of the points of this thread. I am not against sin confession in the sense of transparency before God. I am asking why confess sin for the sake of forgiveness, when it is ours in Jesus Christ? By all means be open with the Lord, ask for strength to walk righteously, and seek the Lord on wisdom as to why you are weak in certain areas.

I am simply sharing what seems to be an apparent contradiction that we have forgiveness [the remission of our sins through the shed blood of Jesus] and then a traditonal view in Christianity to seek forgiveness through sin confession. How do people reconcile the two?

Amen., It has been stated and written many times before right here on these threads and I'm sure will still need to be. Also Ben., your question about 1 John 1:9 is not isolated to only you and a few other believers. There are hundreds and thousands and millions of us who have also stopped and looked and relooked at this and have come to the same exact conclusions you have.

What seeing this truth does is root us into the truth of the righteousness of God IN Christ. This truth doesn't cause the believer to run off down the road of sin and throw off all his or her clothes and join a nearest nudest colony. Nooo., what learning the truth does is root us deep in the love of God. And the more we see His love for us., the more we can and will love Him. Love follows by following ., obeys. We are the sheep of His pasture. His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

 

[joaniemarie]

Amen., It has been stated and written many times before right here on these threads and I'm sure will still need to be. Also Ben., your question about 1 John 1:9 is not isolated to only you and a few other believers. There are hundreds and thousands and millions of us who have also stopped and looked and relooked at this and have come to the same exact conclusions you have.

What seeing this truth does is root us into the truth of the righteousness of God IN Christ. This truth doesn't cause the believer to run off down the road of sin and throw off all his or her clothes and join a nearest nudest colony. Nooo., what learning the truth does is root us deep in the love of God.

And the more we see His love for us., the more we are able to love Him back. We love Him because He first loved us. We are the sheep of His pasture. His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

Was in the middle of fixing this when the dog needed to go out. So I fixed the post above so it makes more sense at the end. Sorry about that.

 

[BenFTW]

Let me simplify the argument into premises with a conclusion.

1. Sin experiences remission through blood shed (Hebrews 9:22).
2. Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for sin.
3. Therefore our sin has experienced remission by the blood of Jesus.

Lets move onto the next premises to another reached conclusion.

1. Blood shed is required for forgiveness of sin, our sin is forgiven by the blood of Jesus.

2. Our sin is forgiven by the blood of Jesus, therefore no more offering for sin is required (Hebrews 10:28).

3. Since the forgiveness of sin requires bloodshed, and Jesus shed His blood for our sin, we have forgiveness for our sins (Hebrews 10:11-14).

4. Our present sin is forgiven (has experienced remission) by the shed blood of Jesus Christ because there is no other offering for sin by which mankind can be forgiven (Hebrews 10:28) and since Jesus is that once and for all sacrifice for sin and will not go back up on the cross for our sin, our present sin must be forgiven or else.

5. Either we are forgiven (of all sin) or Jesus' bloodshed was not sufficient for the forgiveness of our sins (Hebrews 9:26).

6. Jesus sacrifice is sufficient and we are forgiven of all sin (Hebrews 10:12-14, Hebrews 10:15-22).


All of this logically follows. Either Christ's sacrifice was sufficient or Christ must get back up on the cross for our sins because sin only experiences remission through bloodshed and He is that very sacrifice. None of the premises are taken out of thin air, they are supported with scripture. Our sin must be forgiven, not through any other means than Christ's sacrifice, because He is the means by which bloodshed happened for sin to experience remission. It is Jesus or nothing.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Let me simplify the argument into premises with a conclusion.

1. Sin experiences remission through blood shed (Hebrews 9:22).
2. Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for sin.
3. Therefore our sin has experienced remission by the blood of Jesus.

Lets move onto the next premises to another reached conclusion.

1. Blood shed is required for forgiveness of sin, our sin is forgiven by the blood of Jesus.
2. Our sin is forgiven by the blood of Jesus, therefore no more offering for sin is required (Hebrews 10:28).
3. Since the forgiveness of sin requires bloodshed, and Jesus shed His blood for our sin, we have forgiveness for our sins (Hebrews 10:11-14).
4. Our present sin is forgiven (has experienced remission) by the shed blood of Jesus Christ because there is no other offering for sin by which mankind can be forgiven (Hebrews 10:28) and since Jesus is that once and for all sacrifice for sin and will not go back up on the cross for our sin, our present sin must be forgiven or else.
5. Either we are forgiven (of all sin) or Jesus' bloodshed was not sufficient for the forgiveness of our sins (Hebrews 9:26).
6. Jesus sacrifice is sufficient and we are forgiven of all sin (Hebrews 10:12-14, Hebrews 10:15-22).

All of this logically follows. Either Christ's sacrifice was sufficient or Christ must get back up on the cross for our sins because sin only experiences remission through bloodshed and He is that very sacrifice. None of the premises are taken out of thin air, they are supported with scripture. Our sin must be forgiven, not through any other means than Christ's sacrifice, because He is the means by which bloodshed happened for sin to experience remission. It is Jesus or nothing.

Friend,

You disregard scripture which is unbelief in the Word of God to cling to the false teachings of man over the Word of God. Forgiveness is indeed only by faith in the blood of Jesus but it is conditional on believing His Word and following him. If you are still living a life of unrepentant sin, God's Word says you have not seen him or known him and are still in your sins. (1 John 2:2-4; 1 John 3:3-10)

You start with a false premise in that you say we do not need to confess our sins in order to obtain forgiveness. Yet God's Word clearly tells us that forgiveness is conditional in believing God's Word and it is only those who repent, confess and forsake their sins that have God's forgiveness. All sin is the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4). If you break it and do not repent and confess your sins you are not in a saved state and are in danger of the judgments of God and being lost (Hebrews 10:26-27; Luke 13:3; Acts 3:19; 1 John 1:9).

Salvation is conditional on believing and obeying God's Word....

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Who should we believe God or man?

Only God's Word is true.....

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins , he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Psalm 32:5
I acknowledge my sin unto thee , and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgave the iniquity o f my sin. Selah.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covers his sins shall not prosper : but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

John 12:44-48
44, Jesus cried and said, He that believes on me, believes not on me, but on him that sent me. 45, And he that sees me sees him that sent me. 46, I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48, He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 3:19-21
19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20, For every one that does evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21, But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Some believe God while others follow the word of website... Who will you believe?


God's Sheep hear His Voice....

 

[MarcR]

Ro 8:1-4
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
KJV

Because of Jesus' sacrifice our sin(s) is/are forgiven blotted out and remembered no more. We are righteous in His righteousness not our own. We do not move into and out of Jesus' righteousness it is our permanent position.

But, that does not make 1 Jn 1:9-10
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
KJV
any less true.

Lets take a look at 1Jn 1:9

If we confess our sins If ἐάν [and you can expect that we will] or Since [This is a third class condition which presumes a positive outcome] we confess ὁμολογῶμεν here confess is in the present tense subjunctive indicating ongoing or habitual action.

We might well ask 'how can both be true?' Answer: our position of righteousness in Jesus is NOT dependent on our confession.

So can we ignore the fact that it is expected? Absolutely NOT!

We do not become changed into the image of Jesus instantaneously. Our walk here on earth is intended to be a growth process that prepares us for heaven. Our confession is to help us recognize that which prompts us to revert to our sin nature so that we know to enlist the Spirit's help to avoid stumbling again.

Our confession is not only to be continuous but it is presumed to the point of assumption.

 

[BenFTW]

Ro 8:1-4
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
KJV

Because of Jesus' sacrifice our sin(s) is/are forgiven blotted out and remembered no more. We are righteous in His righteousness not our own. We do not move into and out of Jesus' righteousness it is our permanent position.

But, that does not make 1 Jn 1:9-10
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
KJV
any less true.

Lets take a look at 1Jn 1:9

If we confess our sins If ἐάν [and you can expect that we will] or Since [This is a third class condition which presumes a positive outcome] we confess ὁμολογῶμεν here confess is in the present tense subjunctive indicating ongoing or habitual action.

We might well ask 'how can both be true?' Answer: our position of righteousness in Jesus is NOT dependent on our confession.

So can we ignore the fact that it is expected? Absolutely NOT!

We do not become changed into the image of Jesus instantaneously. Our walk here on earth is intended to be a growth process that prepares us for heaven. Our confession is to help us recognize that which prompts us to revert to our sin nature so that we know to enlist the Spirit's help to avoid stumbling again.

Our confession is not only to be continuous but it is presumed to the point of assumption.

In other words, sin confession doesn't save. Jesus does. While sin confession plays a part in sanctification through the means of transparency, it by no means supersedes the forgiveness we have through the shed blood of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sins.

 

[Hizikyah]

Leviticus 5:5 , "when anyone becomes aware that they are guilty in any of these matters, they must confess in what way they have sinned."

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is YHWH! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from YHWH."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one Father and one Mediator between the Father and men, the Man Messiah יהושע,”

The Levitical priesthood has been dosbanded and now we have Yahshua after the order of the messenger of righteousness, sitting eternally as High Priest making intervession.

He is in this role for a reason...

Hebrews 7:23-, “And indeed, those that became priests were many, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to Yah through Him, ever living to make intercession for them.

 

[BenFTW]

I understand that I too hold the burden of proof of having to deal with verses that seem contradictory. Such as the Lord's prayer and asking God to forgive us as we forgive the trespasses of others. I am simply pointing out the apparent contradiction, and maybe we can come to an understanding.

I might also add there does seem to be some legalistic notion here, a works-based mindset, to think that God will only forgive me if I forgive others, otherwise I am condemned. That doesn't sound like I am saved by grace through faith, it sounds like I am saved by my willingness to forgive others.

 

[Speak2Me]

In 1Jn 1:9 'confess' is in the present tense indicating thst the action is to be ongoing or habitual. I don't think it is necessary to be aware of and confess every shortcoming, or something will remain unforgiven.
I think our prayer life should include periodic acknowledgement of the fact that we fall short of perfect obedience.

Some may notice that I took another position on this issue, in another post several days ago. My position has indeed changed after having parsed this verse in the Greek. I have come to what I regard as a better understanding a few minutes ago.

Good to hear it!
That shows the Holy Spirit convinces (convicts) us of wrongdoing and leads us forward to a closer walk with Jesus.
Nuttin' wrong with a good confession. It shows we're still growing and we still need changing.

 

[PennEd]

Exactly one of the points of this thread. I am not against sin confession in the sense of transparency before God. I am asking why confess sin for the sake of forgiveness, when it is ours in Jesus Christ? By all means be open with the Lord, ask for strength to walk righteously, and seek the Lord on wisdom as to why you are weak in certain areas.

I am simply sharing what seems to be an apparent contradiction that we have forgiveness [the remission of our sins through the shed blood of Jesus] and then a traditonal view in Christianity to seek forgiveness through sin confession. How do people reconcile the two?

I truly believe the relationship between parent and child mirrors, or should mirror, our relationship between our Heavenly Father and us.

So in that vein, I expect my sons to not only say they are sorry, but also to admit wrong. They almost certainly know I am going to forgive them, but it is nice to hear them say "will you forgive me"?

That confession gives ME the opportunity to show my love and Grace to them.

I think by neglecting confession to our Heavenly Father, because we are already forgiven, in some ways deprives the Lord from giving our hearts cleanliness, love and Grace.

I hope that scratches where your'e itchin!