The ONLY True God- scripture by scripture! Ready for Truth?
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If you folks could set aside the church mantras, and focus on the scriptures, truth will be seen.
Continuing about the 3 angels who visited Abraham~
9-And they said to him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
10-And he said, I will certainly return to thee at [this] time of the year,
and behold, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah was listening at the
tent-door, which was behind him.
11-Now Abraham and Sarah were old [and] advanced in age:it had ceased to be
with Sarah after the manner of women.
12-And Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am become old, shall
I have pleasure, and my lord old?
13-And Jehovah said to Abraham, Why is this, that Sarah laughs, saying,
Shall I indeed bear, when I am become old?
14-Is [any] matter too wonderful for Jehovah? At the time appointed I will
return to thee, at this time of the year, and Sarah shall have a son.
20-And Jehovah said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrahis great and their
sin is very grievous,
21-I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according
to the cry of it, which is come to me; and if not, I will know it.
Were these 3 'Godmen' speaking in unison?
Was only ONE of them a Godman?
Or, did God speak thru them, as we will see in other accounts as I list them in order....
So much for being 'omnipresent'. He allows us privacy.
Continuing about the 3 angels who visited Abraham~
9-And they said to him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
10-And he said, I will certainly return to thee at [this] time of the year,
and behold, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah was listening at the
tent-door, which was behind him.
11-Now Abraham and Sarah were old [and] advanced in age:it had ceased to be
with Sarah after the manner of women.
12-And Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am become old, shall
I have pleasure, and my lord old?
13-And Jehovah said to Abraham, Why is this, that Sarah laughs, saying,
Shall I indeed bear, when I am become old?
14-Is [any] matter too wonderful for Jehovah? At the time appointed I will
return to thee, at this time of the year, and Sarah shall have a son.
20-And Jehovah said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrahis great and their
sin is very grievous,
21-I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according
to the cry of it, which is come to me; and if not, I will know it.
Were these 3 'Godmen' speaking in unison?
Was only ONE of them a Godman?
Or, did God speak thru them, as we will see in other accounts as I list them in order....
So much for being 'omnipresent'. He allows us privacy.
i'd like to see the statistical data & the study parameters that support that statement.
i don't believe that you yourself being banned from many places would be a good indicator of that - it'd be a sample of size 1 no matter how many forums you went to, so not good for inference to begin with, and if that's your basis there'd also be a whomping big lot of bias integrated into your procedure.
can you do the math?
((ok lol probably there is no firm evidence behind that statement; you made it flippantly. just thought i'd ask in case))
but we don't need to use math to understand one thing:
if any person is constantly being disagreed with, rebuked, corrected & eventually barred from further participation in discussion, especially when those conversations are taking place among a cultured & learned group of people who *should* understand the truth, that is not evidence that the person who is constantly being corrected is correct -- it's actually an indicator that they are not.
Why can't those claiming to be Christian focus on scripture, instead of playing Judge?
22-And the men turned thence, and went towards Sodom; and Abraham remained
yet standing before Jehovah.
23-And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also cause the righteous to
perish with the wicked?
33-And Jehovah went away when he had ended speaking to Abraham; and
Abraham returned to his place.
22-And the men turned thence, and went towards Sodom; and Abraham remained
yet standing before Jehovah.
23-And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also cause the righteous to
perish with the wicked?
33-And Jehovah went away when he had ended speaking to Abraham; and
Abraham returned to his place.
Genesis 19:1--And the two >>> angels <<< ["messengers"]
came to Sodom at even. And Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. And Lot saw them, and rose
up to meet them; and he bowed down, the face toward the ground.
15-And as the dawn arose,
>>> the angels <<<
urged Lot, saying,Up, take thy wife and thy two daughters who are present, lest thou perish in the
iniquity of the city.
16-And as he lingered, >>> the men <<<
laid hold on his hand, and on the hand of his wife, and on the hand of his two daughters, Jehovah
being merciful to him; and they led him out, and set him without the city.
17-And it came to pass when they had brought them outside,that he said, Escape for thy life: look not behind
thee, neither stay thou in all the plain: escape to the mountain, lest thou perish.
23-The sun rose upon the earth when Lot came to Zoar.
24-And Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven.
Now, what does the account show us?
God-the-Father, God-the-Son, and God-the-Ghost doing all this...eating steak, and splitting up?...
...or Jehovah speaking and working thru these angels?
Did Three Gods/Persons/Beings/Essences/Natures become "men" to visit Abraham and Sodom?
Notice that they are called "men", "angels" ,and "Jehovah" interchangeably.
As we continue thru the Bible, you will see OTHER accounts where an Angel is spoken of as "Jehovah" ( or "LORD" in most translations removing it) for the sole reason God is SPEAKING directly THRU them.
Moses later writes that no man can see God and live,as Jesus later, still, did.
The Apostle John, too, later writes that no man HAS seen God, which indicates that He has used different angels and IMAGES to “appear” and represent Himself to man.
John, and MANY others DID see Jesus! (NOT God)
Abraham, too, sees ANGELS, not God- and certainly not THREE Almighties ,Gods/Beings/Persons/Essences/Natures!
came to Sodom at even. And Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. And Lot saw them, and rose
up to meet them; and he bowed down, the face toward the ground.
15-And as the dawn arose,
>>> the angels <<<
urged Lot, saying,Up, take thy wife and thy two daughters who are present, lest thou perish in the
iniquity of the city.
16-And as he lingered, >>> the men <<<
laid hold on his hand, and on the hand of his wife, and on the hand of his two daughters, Jehovah
being merciful to him; and they led him out, and set him without the city.
17-And it came to pass when they had brought them outside,that he said, Escape for thy life: look not behind
thee, neither stay thou in all the plain: escape to the mountain, lest thou perish.
23-The sun rose upon the earth when Lot came to Zoar.
24-And Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven.
Now, what does the account show us?
God-the-Father, God-the-Son, and God-the-Ghost doing all this...eating steak, and splitting up?...
...or Jehovah speaking and working thru these angels?
Did Three Gods/Persons/Beings/Essences/Natures become "men" to visit Abraham and Sodom?
Notice that they are called "men", "angels" ,and "Jehovah" interchangeably.
As we continue thru the Bible, you will see OTHER accounts where an Angel is spoken of as "Jehovah" ( or "LORD" in most translations removing it) for the sole reason God is SPEAKING directly THRU them.
Moses later writes that no man can see God and live,as Jesus later, still, did.
The Apostle John, too, later writes that no man HAS seen God, which indicates that He has used different angels and IMAGES to “appear” and represent Himself to man.
John, and MANY others DID see Jesus! (NOT God)
Abraham, too, sees ANGELS, not God- and certainly not THREE Almighties ,Gods/Beings/Persons/Essences/Natures!
it is the LORD -- Genesis 18:1 -- not just His messengers
which you also would have seen clearly if you hadn't deleted vv. 15 - 19 from the scripture when you quoted it.
read the whole account - verse 22 is interesting..
Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the Lord.
that verse alone blows up any idea that all three men are 'gods' or that God Almighty was not actually present. the men left. the LORD remained.
Abraham's plea for the righteous in the city to be spared follows, and then in the next chapter we have the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah: in which exactly two angels arrive to bring Lot & whatever of his family can be saved out of the city.
Now YHWH appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.
which you also would have seen clearly if you hadn't deleted vv. 15 - 19 from the scripture when you quoted it.
read the whole account - verse 22 is interesting..
Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the Lord.
that verse alone blows up any idea that all three men are 'gods' or that God Almighty was not actually present. the men left. the LORD remained.
Abraham's plea for the righteous in the city to be spared follows, and then in the next chapter we have the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah: in which exactly two angels arrive to bring Lot & whatever of his family can be saved out of the city.
here's a pictorial example of a single object that's seen in three different ways depending on perspective and the amount of information one has in their view:
the form is a cylinder, if you can see three dimensions, but the image ((in this context this word has the same meaning as 'projection')) is a 2-d representation projected onto a space of one less dimension, and depending on the plane ((the natural projecting surface in the case of a 3-d object)) the image may be either a rectangle or a circle.
one image alone isn't enough to ascertain the form; many images may not be enough depending on the characteristics of the form and the space that the form 'lives' in.
e.g. what if you have an n-dimensional object? how many projections do you need, on to what-dimensional spaces, in order to infer enough information about it to describe it fully & accurately in n dimensions?
the form is a cylinder, if you can see three dimensions, but the image ((in this context this word has the same meaning as 'projection')) is a 2-d representation projected onto a space of one less dimension, and depending on the plane ((the natural projecting surface in the case of a 3-d object)) the image may be either a rectangle or a circle.
one image alone isn't enough to ascertain the form; many images may not be enough depending on the characteristics of the form and the space that the form 'lives' in.
e.g. what if you have an n-dimensional object? how many projections do you need, on to what-dimensional spaces, in order to infer enough information about it to describe it fully & accurately in n dimensions?
It is what I call the 'Tinman'.
Let's see if 18 and 19 reveals a Triune Godman/men~
"[FONT="]18 seeing that Abraham shall become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall bless themselves by him? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]19 No, for I have chosen[e]him, that he may charge his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice; so that the Lord may bring to Abraham what he has promised him.”
No Triune ANYTHING. No Godman.
No Jesus becoming a man here.
I am (OOPS! Not claiming to be God!) listing scriptures showing something about God's Identity.
Not listing the entire Bible.[/FONT]
Let's see if 18 and 19 reveals a Triune Godman/men~
"[FONT="]18 seeing that Abraham shall become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall bless themselves by him? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]19 No, for I have chosen[e]him, that he may charge his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice; so that the Lord may bring to Abraham what he has promised him.”
No Triune ANYTHING. No Godman.
No Jesus becoming a man here.
I am (OOPS! Not claiming to be God!) listing scriptures showing something about God's Identity.
Not listing the entire Bible.[/FONT]
well the entire Bible shows something about God's identity. so.
not good to start selectively editing to fit your prior hypothesis ((remember what you said about 'confirmation bias' ?))
but here's one you might want to look at while you're making that list:
who is this speaking?
He was pierced?
who did the piercing?
when?
something profound about His identity in there IMO.
cheers
not good to start selectively editing to fit your prior hypothesis ((remember what you said about 'confirmation bias' ?))
but here's one you might want to look at while you're making that list:
they will look on Me whom they have pierced
(Zechariah 12:10)
(Zechariah 12:10)
who is this speaking?
He was pierced?
who did the piercing?
when?
something profound about His identity in there IMO.
cheers
Ok question here is what Genesis 17:1,2 says, "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, THE LORD APPEARED to Abram AND SAID TO HIM, "I am God Almighty, Walk before Me and be blameless, vs2, And I will establish MY COVENANT between Me and you, And I will multiply you exceedingly."
Now, you said this: "The Apostle John, too, later writes that no man HAS seen God, which indicates that He has used different angels and IMAGES to “appear” and represent Himself to man." Where does it say at Genesis 17 in these two verses I quoted or in fact in the whole chapter and angel appeared to Abram? Secondly, Jesus Himself said, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath seen the Father." So it cannot be God the Father who appeared to Abram so who was it that physically appeared to him?
In Him,
bluto
Now, you said this: "The Apostle John, too, later writes that no man HAS seen God, which indicates that He has used different angels and IMAGES to “appear” and represent Himself to man." Where does it say at Genesis 17 in these two verses I quoted or in fact in the whole chapter and angel appeared to Abram? Secondly, Jesus Himself said, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath seen the Father." So it cannot be God the Father who appeared to Abram so who was it that physically appeared to him?
In Him,
bluto
Ok question here is what Genesis 17:1,2 says, "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, THE LORD APPEARED to Abram AND SAID TO HIM, "I am God Almighty, Walk before Me and be blameless, vs2, And I will establish MY COVENANT between Me and you, And I will multiply you exceedingly."
Now, you said this: "The Apostle John, too, later writes that no man HAS seen God, which indicates that He has used different angels and IMAGES to “appear” and represent Himself to man." Where does it say at Genesis 17 in these two verses I quoted or in fact in the whole chapter and angel appeared to Abram? Secondly, Jesus Himself said, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath seen the Father." So it cannot be God the Father who appeared to Abram so who was it that physically appeared to him?
In Him,
bluto
Now, you said this: "The Apostle John, too, later writes that no man HAS seen God, which indicates that He has used different angels and IMAGES to “appear” and represent Himself to man." Where does it say at Genesis 17 in these two verses I quoted or in fact in the whole chapter and angel appeared to Abram? Secondly, Jesus Himself said, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath seen the Father." So it cannot be God the Father who appeared to Abram so who was it that physically appeared to him?
In Him,
bluto
KJV: advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, look (on, one another, one on another, one upon another, out, up, upon), mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see(-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-)spy, stare, X surely, X think, view, visions
Trying to use that to say 3 Gods became men is quite __________> fill in the blank....