Church Fathers = Fathers of “Catholic Tradition”

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#1
You will frequently find references to the Early Church Fathers, and their writings have been preserved and quoted frequently. Indeed, for the traditionalist churches, they are practically equal to Scripture.

Unfortunately these men are the ones from whom the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches get their false teachings. Thus the word “Catholic” and “tradition” can apply to either the RCC or the EOC in this context.

The Church Fathers were generally bishops, and they are grouped as (a) Apostolic Fathers, (b) Ante-Nicene Fathers, (c) Nicene Fathers, and (d) Post-Nicene Fathers, and they existed from the first to the fifth centuries AD.

They introduced many errors into Christianity, which have now become carved in stone. Some of those errors are :

1. Churches should have a ruling bishop over and above the elders, who are accountable to him [In Scripture there is no difference between elders and bishops (who are the pastors), and there must always be a plurality of elders in every church].

2. There is a middle state between Heaven and Hell called Purgatory [In Scripture it is either Heaven or Hell, with Sheol/Hades as the temporary abode of the unsaved dead].

3. The Eucharist literally becomes the body and blood of Christ [In Scripture the bread and the cup symbolize the body and blood of Christ].

4. Water baptism regenerates a soul and washes away sins [In Scripture water baptism represents the death, burial, and resurrection of the believer with Christ].

5. Mary was “the second Eve” and should be venerated as “the Mother of God” [Scripture reveals that Mary was simply the mother of Jesus of Nazareth, and that even while on earth, Christ gave her no special status].

6. Asceticism and monasticism were necessary for salvation and sanctification [In Scripture Paul condemns asceticism, and monasticism is foreign to the Bible].

7. “Holy water” has supernatural properties [There is no such concept in the Bible].

8. Prayers to the departed saints and prayers for the dead are acceptable to God [There is no such teaching in the Bible].

9. A celibate priesthood is a necessity [Celibacy is the except according to Christ, and elders are to be married and have children. Also, all believers constitute a Royal Priesthood].

10. Church “tradition” has equal authority with Scripture [The Bible makes it crystal clear that the Word of God – Scripture – is the sole authority for all Christians”].

We could list many other erroneous teachings, but we can now see why the RCC and EOC have elevated what th
ey call “Holy Tradition” to the level of Scripture. Therefore people in these churches have to make a critical decision -- should we go along with tradition, or should be believe only what is revealed in Scripture?
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#2
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 5:11, “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"
[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923 - “Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.”[/FONT]
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#3
The early church fathers are part of the 'catholic' tradition as well, and part of the Holy catholic church :)

It helps not to be historically ignorant.. nor intellectually dishonest.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
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#4
Church fathers? That is blasphemy. “Call no man on earth Father.” Everyone in the body of Christ is on the same level, and there is no favoritism or hierarchy. Christ is the only head (authority) of His only body (the church as a whole). If there are church fathers, there’s church aunts, church grandpas, church cousins- that’s the only context- that we are all like family.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,418
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#5
The early church fathers are part of the 'catholic' tradition as well, and part of the Holy catholic church :) It helps not to be historically ignorant.. nor intellectually dishonest.
It is interesting to see that your contribution to this thread is simply to hurl insults at Christians. So tell us what is historically ignorant in this thread and what is intellectually dishonest. Those are extremely serious and insulting comments.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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#6
I would say that the biggest error anybody could have made was to introduce SUNday as the christian worship day....because from that human concept arise all errors as the result of following a false god.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#7
It is interesting to see that your contribution to this thread is simply to hurl insults at Christians. So tell us what is historically ignorant in this thread and what is intellectually dishonest. Those are extremely serious and insulting comments.

All I was pointing out was that the early church fathers where christians like you and me. All christian branches use the early fathers. (whether or not you agree with one branch or another)

For instance you don't even state who where the ones with wrong teaching, like Marcion, Arius, pelagius etc etc. you ignorantly state they all are wrong and taught false teachings. Where they perfect? of course not.

My question to you is ... was there any early church leaders that taught faithfully to the best of their ability and understanding.? If we read your post we would have to concur that there wasn't which is false.




 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#8
I would say that the biggest error anybody could have made was to introduce SUNday as the christian worship day....because from that human concept arise all errors as the result of following a false god.
That's an interesting viewpoint beta, which false god's have christians worshipped since the NT times by coming together on the first day of the week..the Lords day?
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
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#9
That's an interesting viewpoint beta, which false god's have christians worshipped since the NT times by coming together on the first day of the week..the Lords day?
Can you give me a scripture when GOD instituted the first day of the week as HIS HOLY DAY ?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#10
Can you give me a scripture when GOD instituted the first day of the week as HIS HOLY DAY ?
I was asking you about your post here it is again:

Originally Posted by beta

I would say that the biggest error anybody could have made was to introduce SUNday as the christian worship day....because from that human concept arise all errors as the result of following a false god.
You make a very serious and distasteful accusation on millions of Christians. So which false gods are Christians following?
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
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#11
I was asking you about your post here it is again:



You make a very serious and distasteful accusation on millions of Christians. So which false gods are Christians following?
only the one coming from Rome....never said they followed more than one. Yes this is serious because it will cost them their salvation if not repented and turned from. I hope people/christians will consider it...but it is a CHOICE and not a law. God bless !
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#12
only the one coming from Rome....never said they followed more than one. Yes this is serious because it will cost them their salvation if not repented and turned from. I hope people/christians will consider it...but it is a CHOICE and not a law. God bless !
Yes you have already said this.

Who is worshipping this false god from Rome, it is a serious accusation you are making against all those since the NT times till present. What is this false god that I and others are worshipping?

Again a reminder of what you said:

I would say that the biggest error anybody could have made was to introduce SUNday as the christian worship day....because from that human concept arise all errors as the result of following a false god.
 
Jul 23, 2017
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#13
I would say that the biggest error anybody could have made was to introduce SUNday as the christian worship day....because from that human concept arise all errors as the result of following a false god.
gospel according to beta is "keep the sabbath"
u make every thread about the sabbath.
 
Jul 23, 2017
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#14
ive read some quotes from these early church guys.
i agree with some, some i disagree with.

u know one thing i always wondered is what if there was a bunch of other early church guys who wrote something completely different to the writings we have. but because they werent "in line" the catholics destroyed their writings and we never got them. u know how catholic destroy writings of "heretics."

thats what i think about.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#15
It is interesting to see that your contribution to this thread is simply to hurl insults at Christians. So tell us what is historically ignorant in this thread and what is intellectually dishonest. Those are extremely serious and insulting comments.
Not that it promotes sarcasm (to tear at the flesh or get under the skin) but Christ used it to make a point calling a certain kind of fathers a "brood of vipers" . Vipers as those who bring another gospel as false apostles, false prophets .

That tradition of men called fathers began when Moses came down from the mountain. They insisted along with the written law an oral law of equal authority came it made the word of God without effect.

The Catholic use of fathers in that way that came from the apostate Jews. While the Jews had there unto father under the name of Abraham, the Catholics use the name Peter in the same exact way.

There are two ways the word father can be used, one appropriately, the other as blasphemy..Makes an interesting study.

Both the first century reformation and the fifteenth in that way are carbon copies. .
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#16
I would say that the biggest error anybody could have made was to introduce SUNday as the christian worship day....because from that human concept arise all errors as the result of following a false god.
In my opinion I believe people go to church on Sunday to celebrate Jesus resurrection on the first day of the week as the bible testifies as to that was the day of Jesus resurrection and i have only heard people mention the day as the Lord's day, as well the bible mentions Jesus as Lord of the Sabbath.
 
Oct 15, 2017
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#17
only the one coming from Rome....never said they followed more than one. Yes this is serious because it will cost them their salvation if not repented and turned from. I hope people/christians will consider it...but it is a CHOICE and not a law. God bless !
Finally an honest sabbatarian. Usually they aren't this direct in saying not keeping the sabbath will cost salvation. I wish they were all this honest in preaching their false doctrine. Instead they try to lure people in with that fake love talk.


For the topic itself: The church fathers had pretty normal doctrines in all honesty. Up until a certain point, if you read the earliest ones like Polycarp or Ignatius, they are very similar to Paul.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#18
Can you give me a scripture when GOD instituted the first day of the week as HIS HOLY DAY ?
Ac 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Initially Christians met in the court of the temple on the Sabbath but the loving Judaists drove them from the temple on the Sabbath day. Christians then began to assemble on the first day of the week.

Righteousness is imputed from Christ not attained by keeping the Mosaic law. Law is the teacher of men not the Redeemer.

If you will keep the Sabbath then do not forget to turn the heat off in your house. No fire allowed in the home on the Sabbath day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,042
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#19
Ac 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Initially Christians met in the court of the temple on the Sabbath but the loving Judaists drove them from the temple on the Sabbath day. Christians then began to assemble on the first day of the week.

Righteousness is imputed from Christ not attained by keeping the Mosaic law. Law is the teacher of men not the Redeemer.

If you will keep the Sabbath then do not forget to turn the heat off in your house. No fire allowed in the home on the Sabbath day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Amen! Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) was part of a covenant with Israel under the Old Covenant that is not applicable to the Church under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16,17)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#20
I was asking you about your post here it is again:



You make a very serious and distasteful accusation on millions of Christians. So which false gods are Christians following?
I see that most of the paraphrases are false pursuing the keeping of the Sabbath on the last day by changing a non-time sensitive word(rest) in one that is sensitive to time (week) . The Greek had no word for week.

The word week is a false translation. It should be eliminated from the New Testament .The word Sabbath means rest (never week). Sunday is the new era or rests marking the new creation as children of light . Day one... let there be children of light. . Its Sabbaths the plural form

Matthew 28Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,