GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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So, if I may ask (and please: keeping your answers short! )
what do you believe is the certificate of debt that was nailed to the cross?
(a) your sinful condition? (b) Law? (c) law?
the law could not, or was not nailed to the cross,
but what was the handwriting of requirements?


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access.
Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):


14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)


The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?

the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").

But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's
Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears,
figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance
with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)


While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments
by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who
continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know
that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).
 
Last edited:

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
57
HBG. Pa. USA
In reference to Col 2:14 I Would like to talk about the dative case of "τοις" in the clause "χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν " (handwriting of ordinances). The fact that it is in the Dative and ignored by most scholars and translations is amazing. The clause is commonly understood, "handwriting of ordinances". But that does not reflect the proper grammar of the Greek text. The Dative case of the definite article is ignored in the KJV and in most translations. Here are some literal translations. Take a look at how the verse should be translated.

(Col 2:14 YLT ) having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;

(Col 2:14 GUV ) having blotted out the handwriting in the decrees (against) us, which was adverse to us, also He has taken it (out of) the midst, having nailed it to the cross,

(Col 2:14 CPDV) and wiping away the handwriting of the decree which was against us, which was contrary to us. And he has taken this away from your midst, affixing it to the Cross.

(Col 2:14 LITV-TSP) blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us, which was contrary to us, even He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross;

(Col 2:14 CLV) erasing the handwriting of the decrees against us, which was hostile to us, and has taken it away out of the midst, nailing it to the cross,



Big difference between "handwriting of ordinances" and the handwriting in the, of the, or to the ordinances.

The Dative Case would be better represented by the word "to". I see it like this, "Having blotted out the handwriting to the decrees". The decrees are referring to the Decalogue which was wrote by God in tables of stone and the "handwriting" is that of Moses. Which he had penned himself through inspiration.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
In reference to Col 2:14 I Would like to talk about the dative case of "τοις" in the clause "χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν " (handwriting of ordinances). The fact that it is in the Dative and ignored by most scholars and translations is amazing. The clause is commonly understood, "handwriting of ordinances". But that does not reflect the proper grammar of the Greek text. The Dative case of the definite article is ignored in the KJV and in most translations. Here are some literal translations. Take a look at how the verse should be translated.

(Col 2:14 YLT ) having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;

(Col 2:14 GUV ) having blotted out the handwriting in the decrees (against) us, which was adverse to us, also He has taken it (out of) the midst, having nailed it to the cross,

(Col 2:14 CPDV) and wiping away the handwriting of the decree which was against us, which was contrary to us. And he has taken this away from your midst, affixing it to the Cross.

(Col 2:14 LITV-TSP) blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us, which was contrary to us, even He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross;

(Col 2:14 CLV) erasing the handwriting of the decrees against us, which was hostile to us, and has taken it away out of the midst, nailing it to the cross,

Big difference between "handwriting of ordinances" and the handwriting in the, of the, or to the ordinances.

The Dative Case would be better represented by the word "to". I see it like this, "Having blotted out the handwriting to the decrees". The decrees are referring to the Decalogue which was wrote by God in tables of stone and the "handwriting" is that of Moses. Which he had penned himself through inspiration.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Hi LB,

Interesting observation. How do you feel the different translations effect the interpretations if any?

Thanks for sharing.

May God bless you as you continue in His Word.:)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
57
HBG. Pa. USA
Hi LB,

Interesting observation. How do you feel the different translations effect the interpretations if any?

Thanks for sharing.

May God bless you as you continue in His Word.:)
Hey there friend,
For me the translation, "the hand writing of ordinances" leaves to much room for interpretation.

I never had an issue with this translation. But admittedly I could see where one might interpret to be the Decalogue if taken out of context.

But to translate it correctly; which would be, " the handwriting to the ordinances". This translation leaves no wiggle room. Especially when one takes the context into consideration.

May the LORD continue to bless you also.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Hey there friend,
For me the translation, "the hand writing of ordinances" leaves to much room for interpretation.

I never had an issue with this translation. But admittedly I could see where one might interpret to be the Decalogue if taken out of context.

But to translate it correctly; which would be, " the handwriting to the ordinances". This translation leaves no wiggle room. Especially when one takes the context into consideration.

May the LORD continue to bless you also.
Hi LB,

Yes good point. That is why sometimes it is interesting to look at the Hebrew or Greek work meanings. It can give a different perspective. Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts. Very interesting observation. I have been using the Word together with Bible Analyzer for my bible study of late. I find they are useful together as their strengths and weaknesses seem to compliment each other.

May the LORD continue to bless you.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
57
HBG. Pa. USA
Hi LB,

Yes good point. That is why sometimes it is interesting to look at the Hebrew or Greek work meanings. It can give a different perspective. Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts. Very interesting observation. I have been using the Word together with Bible Analyzer for my bible study of late. I find they are useful together as their strengths and weaknesses seem to compliment each other.

May the LORD continue to bless you.
I remember having a couple translations, a parallel Bible, an interlinear Bible , a Strong's and various lexicons laying before me during my devotional time. Now I set in my chair with my Lap top in my lap with a couple hundred resources at my disposal. I use the theWord also. Together with esword and ISA I am in devotional heaven. Praise GOD for the age we live in!
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
Concerning Colossians 2 here:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

We forget the teaching of Jesus:

Mat_13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

What Jesus was saying is that when one teaches about the kingdom of heaven and the things pertaining to it, a good instructor will use both the old tools and new ones.

Jesus used the tools both form the Old testament but also new ones, what were those tools? Parables, taking things from everyday life that the people spoken to would understand and using them to teach about the truth of Gods kingdom.

So it is here that Paul is using a new tool in this verse, He is not referring to something in the Old Testament as he often does because he uses both new and old as Jesus taught.

He is actually referring to a well known practice of that time in the court of law.

The words used are well translated "bill of charges" He is not referring to the law of God at all, even though that would have something to do with it.

The bill of charges was a piece of paper or papyrus used in the court which would have whatever charges against a person written on it. It would be placed in the centre of the room. If the person was found to be guilty they would punish and the paper would be washed for reuse. But if they were found innocent of the charges then the Paper would be picked up and then brought down on a spike destroying the paper and symbolising that not only were they innocent but also that the charge could not be brought against the person again.

So Paul is using the culture as a parable just as Jesus did to teach that the death of Jesus frees us from the charges that are against us. In other words our sins are no longer charged against us.



Paul is comparing the destruction of the charges in court with Jesus death and payment for our sins.

So in light of this he says:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Don't let anyone judge you if you don't keep the shadows found in the feast of Israel given by God. Because Jesus is the real feast, He is the destruction of your charges so don't let anyone judge you and tell you you have to continue to sacrifice every new moon and holy day, don't let then judge you for not bringing meat and drink offerings on those feasts because Jesus is our meat and drink offering. Don't let anyone Judge you for not keeping the Sabbath of unleavened bread or feast of weeks or tabernacles etc because Jesus is our rest.

Paul is simply saying saying that the sacrificial feasts are all met in Jesus. Jesus is the Passover lamb, He is the unleavened bread from heaven, He is the firstfruits of the harvest, He is the Pentecost etc. All the Sabbaths of the feasts all the meat and drink offerings of the feasts all the new moon and holy days of the feasts all were about Jesus. They were a object lesson of how through the messiah our charges would be taken out of the way.

but in Jesus the real has come, the charges are nailed to the cross the paper with our charges is destroyed and can not be brought against us anymore. In Christ we are free as the blood of animals did nothing but offer a shadow a parable and object lesson to give us faith in the Messiah.

Praise God.
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
the law could not, or was not nailed to the cross,
but what was the handwriting of requirements?


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."
this is what its all about. anytime we read commandments insert stone tablets

heres an idea, what if the commandments in rev 22:14 is the commandments of Jesus? how about that.

1John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 

Beez

Senior Member
Nov 27, 2017
463
83
28
Thank you for your answers to my questions re what you believe regarding those Scriptures. :) Not well right now. Will get back to read more. :)
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Concerning Colossians 2 here:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

We forget the teaching of Jesus:

Mat_13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

What Jesus was saying is that when one teaches about the kingdom of heaven and the things pertaining to it, a good instructor will use both the old tools and new ones.

Jesus used the tools both form the Old testament but also new ones, what were those tools? Parables, taking things from everyday life that the people spoken to would understand and using them to teach about the truth of Gods kingdom.

So it is here that Paul is using a new tool in this verse, He is not referring to something in the Old Testament as he often does because he uses both new and old as Jesus taught.

He is actually referring to a well known practice of that time in the court of law.

The words used are well translated "bill of charges" He is not referring to the law of God at all, even though that would have something to do with it.

The bill of charges was a piece of paper or papyrus used in the court which would have whatever charges against a person written on it. It would be placed in the centre of the room. If the person was found to be guilty they would punish and the paper would be washed for reuse. But if they were found innocent of the charges then the Paper would be picked up and then brought down on a spike destroying the paper and symbolising that not only were they innocent but also that the charge could not be brought against the person again.

So Paul is using the culture as a parable just as Jesus did to teach that the death of Jesus frees us from the charges that are against us. In other words our sins are no longer charged against us.

Paul is comparing the destruction of the charges in court with Jesus death and payment for our sins.

So in light of this he says:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Don't let anyone judge you if you don't keep the shadows found in the feast of Israel given by God. Because Jesus is the real feast, He is the destruction of your charges so don't let anyone judge you and tell you you have to continue to sacrifice every new moon and holy day, don't let then judge you for not bringing meat and drink offerings on those feasts because Jesus is our meat and drink offering. Don't let anyone Judge you for not keeping the Sabbath of unleavened bread or feast of weeks or tabernacles etc because Jesus is our rest.

Paul is simply saying saying that the sacrificial feasts are all met in Jesus. Jesus is the Passover lamb, He is the unleavened bread from heaven, He is the firstfruits of the harvest, He is the Pentecost etc. All the Sabbaths of the feasts all the meat and drink offerings of the feasts all the new moon and holy days of the feasts all were about Jesus. They were a object lesson of how through the messiah our charges would be taken out of the way.

but in Jesus the real has come, the charges are nailed to the cross the paper with our charges is destroyed and can not be brought against us anymore. In Christ we are free as the blood of animals did nothing but offer a shadow a parable and object lesson to give us faith in the Messiah.

Praise God.

the law could not, or was not nailed to the cross,
but what was the handwriting of requirements?


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access.
Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):


14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)


The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?

the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").

But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's
Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears,
figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance
with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)


While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments
by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who
continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know
that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).
Hi Prove-all and Gotime,

Yes very nicely put together. It is always nice to see how other come to the same conclusion as the OP with their own private study of God's Word.

How wonderful is that God can give all a fresh perspective but come up with the same conclusions and interpretations through the scriptures having the Spirit of truth as your guide.

May God bless you both as you continue in His Word thank you very much for sharing. What I nice blessing it was for me personally.
 

Beez

Senior Member
Nov 27, 2017
463
83
28
Thank you for writing all that out!

As I had written, I will not be arguing your answers to my questions, but I will just quickly admit that this is how I understand it.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
You said:
God's/Jesus Holy Days were not part of the Levitical Priesthood.
These are not the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins that the Levites were instructed to perform. Passover was a law before the Levites were appointed to the Priesthood.
Hi Studyman,

Nice to see you here friend. Hope you are well.

Do you mind me asking what do you mean by the above? I am assuming you are referring to the annual Jewish festivals of Leviticus 23?

If so many of the annual festivals were very much a part of the official duties of the Levitical Priesthood as highlighted in the books of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, especially in relation to the burnt offerings (including the meat and drink offerings) for remission of sins which were conducted at the annual festivals, Holy convocations, New Moons and annual special sabbaths (not weekly; eg, Lev 23:24; 32)

May God bless you as you continue in His Word....
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
how many lost their salvation by working or going to the store on the sabbath? weekly count down time! i got a question about sunday worship being the mark of the beast. how exactly does not going to church on sunday prevent someone from buying and selling? dont make no sense. if anything u save money. u dont need to tithe :D
Hi Snoozy,

Good questions. No one receives the "Mark of the Beast" until the beast (Revelations 13) enforces it's mark on people by law.

The laws have already been legislated for sometime already, but at this stage they have not been enforced.

Beasts of Revelation 13 and the Sunday Blue laws of the US Wiki (linked)

Hope this is helpful.
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
that website is whacked out. second beast usa? come on dude.

there will never be a forced sunday worship in any country ever. stores are open 24/7 and people are less and less religious. come on. i dont know how they brainwash u guys but its working
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
28
LoveGodForever,
re: "I am assuming you are referring to the annual Jewish festivals of Leviticus 23?"

A bit nit picky perhaps, but the festivals of Leviticus 23 are actually refered to as the Lord's feasts and not as Jewish festivals.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
57
HBG. Pa. USA
Thank you for your answers to my questions re what you believe regarding those Scriptures. :) Not well right now. Will get back to read more. :)
I pray you feel better Beez. May the LORD wrap HIS arms of Faith around you. Be well my friend.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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there will never be a forced sunday worship in any country ever. stores are open 24/7 and people
are less and less religious. come on. i dont know how they brainwash u guys but its working
Any country ever? You might want to read history about the holy roman empire,
and forced sunday observance in the past ages. Today THE CALL FOR SUNDAY REST,
and linking this with care for the climate.

The popes has been a strong advocate of the revival of Sunday keeping. “Without Sunday
[worship], we cannot live!” Pope Benedict xvi declared during a mass on Sept. 9, 2007,
stating that it was a “necessity” for all people.

The Roman Catholic Church has been fighting to make Sunday observance
again mandatory in Europe for quite some time now.

The principle of Sunday rest is already codified in EU law for all employees under 18,
within the 1994 Protection of Young People at Work Directive.

-

March 2017 Catholic Church wants to ban working on sundays
https://www.total-croatia-news.com/business/17053-catholic-church-wants-to-ban-working-on-sunday

Monday 5 September 2016 Polish draft law on limitation of commerce on Sundays
More than half a million signatures in support of Polish draft law on limitation of commerce on Sundays - Uni Europa

November 23, 2016 EU bishops back Pillar of Social Rights, call for recognition of Sunday rest
https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=30022

--

Germany’s Quiet Sundays’

For Germans, whether religious or otherwise, Sunday is a sacred day of rest.
That’s what the Wall Street Journal said in its Life & Style section on March 23.

“Germany holds to much the same Monday-to-Friday workweek rhythm as the rest
of the world, but on Sundays it skips a beat,” wrote Frankfurt-based assistant news
editor Sarah Sloat in her article
http://www.wsj.com/articles/from-th...sundays-1427151283?KEYWORDS=German+and+Sunday

She continues:

This uber-efficient country, which puts more restrictions on Sunday activities
than nearly all of its neighbors, nearly shuts down. …

Opening Sundays to shopping is fiercely resisted .… Efforts by retailers and businesses
to loosen the rules have also been unsuccessful. But a blanket prohibition was lifted in 2006,
when states were allowed to designate a certain number of Sundays as open for shopping.
In Hesse, where Frankfurt is located, four are permitted each year.

So normal labor and commerce are tightly restricted on Sundays. But what if residents
want to spend their Sunday doing yard work around their homes? Sloat answers this:

Laws regulating shopping hours and noise levels mean stores shut, lawnmowers fall silent,
and woe unto him who flips the switch on an electric tool. … Sonntagsruhe is one term
they use. It simply means “Sunday rest.”

Anyone considering undertaking outdoor chores or home improvements will be in
for a surprise. Regulations limit noise levels, forbidding the use of electric tools
like drills and leaf blowers, as well as hammering, sawing and loud music.

At recycling containers, it’s even prohibited to throw away glass jars and bottles
on Sunday because of the noise. Heavy trucks are banned from German roads on Sunday
… to relieve streets and cities of noise and traffic, and to give drivers a break.

The wsj article makes only a passing and vague mention of the influence of “churches”
on Germany’s reverence for Sundays. But there is one specific church which lies at
the very heart of why Germany “skips a beat” on Sundays: Roman Catholicism.

the Brussels-based European Sunday Alliance, a network of dozens of religious
and nonreligious organizations from 27 European nations whose purpose,
according to its website, is to “raise awareness of the unique value of synchronized
free time for our European societies.”

At the helm of these crusaders for Sunday rest is the Roman Catholic Church.

On March 3, the European Sunday Alliance met in Brussels with politicians from
all around the European Union for a “Call for Action” about banning Sunday work.
European Sunday Alliance - Legal victory for the protection of a work-free Sunday

The press release for the meeting says:

Stop Sunday Work Now! … Europe is not only an economic but also a social and
cultural community. … The “economization” of Sundays and public holidays
deepens social divisions at the expense of workers and their families.

The common weekly day of rest is a clear and visible sign for the reconciliation
of personal, family and professional life. … We need a Europe-wide Sunday protection.
[T]he European Sunday Alliance draws attention to Sunday as the common weekly day
of rest which enables EU citizens to live their citizenship together.

-

Why does this Sunday alliance exist and work so arduously to influence Europe’s
labor laws? Why is the Catholic Church so adamant about instituting a Continent-wide
day of rest? And why must it be Sunday instead of another day of the week?

In large part, it is because it was the Catholic Church—in intentional violation
of biblical teachings—that appointed Sunday as a day of rest and worship.

The Vatican is proud of the success it had in this colossal feat, and Sunday rest
has become a mark of the Catholic Church’s authority.

This truth is best explained by the Vatican’s own:

¦“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles. … From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first” (Catholic Press, August 1900).

¦“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. … And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (letter from the office of Cardinal Gibbons, Nov. 11, 1895).

¦“The church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third—Protestant Fourth—Commandment of God” (The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923).

¦“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ (dies Dominica) [or “Sunday”] was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the church’s sense of its own power. … People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically … keep Saturday holy” (Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995).
-

The March meeting, and the European Sunday Alliance’s ongoing efforts are bringing the Vatican-influenced EU closer to declaring Sunday as the official Continent-wide day of rest. Any steps in that direction should alarm religious liberty watchers, those concerned about a failure to separate church and state, and anyone familiar with Catholicism’s violent history.

-

Historically, when the Catholic Church has started telling everyone to observe Sunday, it has soon after started enforcing that law with brutality. Take the Council of Laodicea, for example. In a.d. 363, the Catholic Church proclaimed that all those who did not keep Sunday, but rather rested on Saturday, were “anathema”—cursed, or excommunicated—from Christ. The Roman Empire then started torturing and martyring all who disobeyed. After Charlemagne gained power over Europe, he too began murdering those who kept Saturday. Throughout the Middle Ages, Saturday observers were tortured and murdered at the behest of the Catholic Church.

Every time Europe has been strong and united, it has enforced Sunday worship.
Europe is becoming united, and its leaders are once again trying to enforce Sunday.

As in the past, when the Catholic Church has the power to enforce Sunday,
life will be brutal for those who disagree.
 
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