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Thread: Cessationism

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    You might want to see this thread if that is really true or not.

    Benny Hinn


    enow...I was stating that no one condones what Hinn does

    I certainly don't

    you misunderstood

    I said that same old Hinn nonsense is dragged out every time on threads like this BECAUSE he is a charlatan

    whatever goes on in his meetings I do not think it is the Holy Spirit. that is all we agree on regarding tongues

    one fake or even 100 fakes do not make what is real fake
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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    Probably because the focus and the zeal is on tongues WITHOUT interpretation to seek after rather than prophesy which is to edify. Paul puts the spotlight on the gift of prophesy for believers that are zealous for spiritual gifts to seek after ( 1 Corinthians 14:1 ), but for all the zeal and hype in churches, they are promoting the gift of tongues way more than prophecy. Go figure. One would think by now that the Holy Spirit would have put that zeal on hold to return to edify.

    But no. It is such a cool thing to do that everybody just has to have it, talk about it, but yet not really coming with interpretation in the assembly but somehow, they can use it privately in a "quiet" way without bothering any one around them. Can you see why some believers have to wonder if tongues have ceased?

    AND because many tongue speakers claim they got that tongue for private use by a "second blessing" of having received the Holy Spirit apart from salvation which in turn prompts believers to seek after by & for that sign of tongues; and yet tongues were not to serve as a sign towards the believers in seeking after for anything. 1 Corinthians 14:22 Paul warned against those that preach another Jesus or another spirit to receive and thus preaching another gospel; 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

    So it is probably more than likely, the doctrine came from many churches in these latter days that abuse tongues for what God intended His gift of tongues was for.... which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people that it has to come with interpretation when used in the assembly or understood by a foreigner or else the Holy Spirit is not manifesting that tongue.

    There is a supernatural tongue that has been in the world before Pentecost that was just plain vain & profane babbling nonsense as gained by the receiving of spirits in the occult, idolatry, or world's religions.

    Speaking In Tongues Not Necessarily Christian: Widespread In Heathen Religions



    So when believers insists they can use God's gift of tongues privately when it does not come with interpretation, then Biblically, I cannot believe God's gift of tongues is in use today. I believe that tongue speakers believe they have that gift because it is real, but I believe they failed to test the spirits & the tongue it had brought because they want it to be God's gift of tongues when it isn't.
    [/LEFT]

    remember the thread you started on pagan tongues?

    guess what!?! nothing new under the sun

    people worship many gods but there is only One who is God

    fake? there are fake Christians all over the place. is our job to go around pointing them out?

    well Jesus said no it isn't

    I daresay you do not have a badge from Jesus telling you that your job is to declare all tongues fake because there are devilish tongues

    wheat and chaff

    your testimony is not true by any means because you totally ignore ALL scripture given that refutes what you state to the point of boring us

    nice of you to drop in yet another thread on your favorite topic
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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    enow...I was stating that no one condones what Hinn does

    I certainly don't

    you misunderstood
    Well, I know you don't, but you were speaking for others in the forum which is why I had thought maybe you might want to know.

    I said that same old Hinn nonsense is dragged out every time on threads like this BECAUSE he is a charlatan

    whatever goes on in his meetings I do not think it is the Holy Spirit. that is all we agree on regarding tongues

    one fake or even 100 fakes do not make what is real fake
    I understand your point of view, but because not everybody in this forum consider him a fake, and you are kind of being conservative in judging his ministry by saying "I do not think" instead of " I know it is not" in regards to the meetings being by the Holy Spirit, I can see why he would be rolled out.

    Nobody likes to say what is of the Holy Spirit and what is not because of fear in committing the unpardonable sin, but yet we are to not believe every spirit but test them. It just seems to me that the majority involved in the spectacular supernatural are reluctant to say what is of Him and what is not, even though discerning spirits is a gift of the Spirit too.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    Well, I know you don't, but you were speaking for others in the forum which is why I had thought maybe you might want to know.



    I understand your point of view, but because not everybody in this forum consider him a fake, and you are kind of being conservative in judging his ministry by saying "I do not think" instead of " I know it is not" in regards to the meetings being by the Holy Spirit, I can see why he would be rolled out.

    Nobody likes to say what is of the Holy Spirit and what is not because of fear in committing the unpardonable sin, but yet we are to not believe every spirit but test them. It just seems to me that the majority involved in the spectacular supernatural are reluctant to say what is of Him and what is not, even though discerning spirits is a gift of the Spirit too.

    I'm not being conservative. I am considering those who think otherwise which is something you might consider

    if someone has it settled, that is between them and God

    why should anyone listen to me over someone else? we come here to voice our own opinion, sometimes learn and definitely argue against what we think is not true...some more and some less so

    dogmatically stating otherwise over and over again, just keeps the debate going

    proof is all over the BDF

    there are some things I will be dogmatic about...like saying Jesus and Paul do not agree. people who are under this false teaching do not understand major doctrines, have not studied the whole Bible (lifetime achievement award here) but agree with what seems good in their own mind. now see how specific I can be?

    this is heretical and dangerous, yet I just left a thread wherein that is being stated...yet again

    I say what is and what is not of God consistently and keep it to myself when personal confrontation starts because that is not scriptural

    I don't call names, like so many do here, nor do i state people are not saved nor do I call them unlearned or whatever

    none of that is fruitful but it goes on all the time and it is sad

    Hinn has given many false prophecies...said very specific things which have never and will never come to pass

    Hinn is a subject all by himself and has been more than once so I object to that video being used as proof that people who speak in tongues are all whacko or demonic
    Last edited by 7seasrekeyed; 1 Week Ago at 12:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    remember the thread you started on pagan tongues?

    guess what!?! nothing new under the sun

    people worship many gods but there is only One who is God

    fake? there are fake Christians all over the place. is our job to go around pointing them out?

    well Jesus said no it isn't
    Actually, Jesus taught excommunication for the church to do, but they are not fake christians, but brothers that err that went astray.

    Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


    I daresay you do not have a badge from Jesus telling you that your job is to declare all tongues fake because there are devilish tongues

    wheat and chaff

    your testimony is not true by any means because you totally ignore ALL scripture given that refutes what you state to the point of boring us

    nice of you to drop in yet another thread on your favorite topic
    While we are on the topic ... you did call Benny Hinn a charlatan earlier, right? That he is that one fake?

    I said that same old Hinn nonsense is dragged out every time on threads like this BECAUSE he is a charlatan

    whatever goes on in his meetings I do not think it is the Holy Spirit. that is all we agree on regarding tongues

    one fake or even 100 fakes do not make what is real fake
    You are my sister and you have the Holy Spirit in you & you are saved, so don't think that I think otherwise.

    I am addressing the issue that God would not mimic that kind of tongue that was in the world before Pentecost. I know that one site says they babble and they have interpreters, but it really is not a language of men like God's gift of tongues is. That is the distinction between the supernatural tongue found in the world and the real God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people.

    Otherwise, how can any church know that a sinner has repented from their former sinful practices and from that supernatural tongue if God can switch out the mode for what tongues were for and say it is for private use just because it comes with no interpretation?

    So as you say.. wheat and chaff... the wheat = God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips to speak unto the people 1 Corinthians 14:21 ; the chaff = vain and profane babbling nonsense that is not a language at all Isaiah 8:19

    It was prophesied that many shall depart from faith and give heed to seducing spirits and & doctrines of devils in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 in these latter days. The apostle John warned believers not to believe every spirit but test them as there is a supernatural tongue as found in the world as the spirit of error in 1 John 4:1-6

    It is not my favorite topic. It is my concern for the body of Christ today and I have scripture to justify my concern.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by JairCrawford View Post
    I am familiar with those passages. The problem is, it says "they shall". That is not the same as "they have".

    I think the last word amen sums it up. Not adding or taking away from the whole... the final warning..

    Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

    I would ask why go above that which is written. Whats the hope? Is there a law missing by which we could know God more intimately or adequately?

    I see it as a safeguard against any one trying to add or subtract by saying Lo is Christ , thus sayreth the Lord ...knowing he has not spoken If applied it would take away every false prophet since the the book of prophecy the Bible was finished, made perfect.

    We would know immediately Mohomid ISIS was a false prophet .Or Jim Jones who said only he is communing with God .Making it not possible to deceive the elect who are obeying the commandment not to add or subtract as he has informed us before time .

    I think the warning before the last new revelation where given spoke of that time the last days we are in. .


    And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.But take ye heed: behold, "I have foretold you all things".But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,Mar 13:21


    It the end of time.

    It would seem to me that in those days, "after that tribulation" it is the tribulation he is speaking of today, the last days False prophets who say; lo is Christ ,thus sayeth the Lord I had a dream, heard a voice or a vision.They are on the rise, signs and wonder gospel are becoming like neighborhood groceries stores of the 60's until l they ceased.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    I think the last word amen sums it up. Not adding or taking away from the whole... the final warning..

    Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

    I would ask why go above that which is written. Whats the hope? Is there a law missing by which we could know God more intimately or adequately?
    Are you implying that something the Holy Spirit tells you should be "added" into the bible as I often hear? I do not know where that idea came from, but it makes no sense and is not even biblical. Were all the prophecies of the prophets mentioned in the bible written down? No, there are many prophets in the bible mentioned but their writings or sayings are not told in the pages of Scripture.
    That argument leaks and leaks badly.

    The Scriptures are profitable for doctrine rebuke reproof and correction as it says. However they cannot tell you where to live, who to marry, what to do. That is the job of the Holy Spirit to lead the believers in your daily life. You cannot find that in any Scriptures.
    The people in the bible were led by the Holy Spirit as well.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    Some of you who claim that "the miraculous has ceased" and claim the Revelation passage to confirm it, actually violate Revelation by adding to the words of 1 Corinthians 13.

    Nowhere in that chapter does it say "miracles will cease" or "healings will cease".

    And, for the record, I don't think that one should judge the existence (or otherwise) or miracles today by the ministry of Benny Hinn. Instead, I'd encourage people to read Craig Keener's recent book on the subject.
    Miracles are miracles nothing more and nothing less. God is God nothuing less. God who is not served by human hands does not heal by human hands He will be healing untill the last day when death will be destroyed . Miracles fall on the just and the unjust just like rain from heaven, or the doctrines of God that fall like manna.

    No such thing as a sign gift.Its a shadow of the spiritual substance... we walk by faith the unseen .Signs are for those who rebel by walking by sight requiring as sign before they believe. .

    The sign of rebellion in the garden....

    Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

    John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogadile View Post
    Are you implying that something the Holy Spirit tells you should be "added" into the bible as I often hear?
    No I was trying to say we should not add or subtract from the whole . but rather heed the commandment.The first warning in Deuteronomy 4:3 has to do with adding meaning to a word (singular). Change the meaning of one word it can affect the whole law of God .

    Were all the prophecies of the prophets mentioned in the bible written down?

    If they were not then it is not prophecy . Do you think so mething is missing?


    No, there are many prophets in the bible mentioned but their writings or sayings are not told in the pages of Scripture.

    That argument leaks and leaks badly.
    I agree it adds very badly.Peter tried that and failed.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    Some of you who claim that "the miraculous has ceased" and claim the Revelation passage to confirm it, actually violate Revelation by adding to the words of 1 Corinthians 13.

    Nowhere in that chapter does it say "miracles will cease" or "healings will cease".

    And, for the record, I don't think that one should judge the existence (or otherwise) or miracles today by the ministry of Benny Hinn. Instead, I'd encourage people to read Craig Keener's recent book on the subject.
    Thanks for a demonstration of the normal reaction to the teaching that 1 Cor 13:8 provides.

    Miracles still occur but there are no miracle workers apart from God. Healings occur but there are no healers just a faithful, caring God.

    The Holy Spirit is moving and working in the affairs of men but the Holy Spirit is not subject to the will of men.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post

    you will find alot of opposition here against speaking in tongues

    but of course the gift of teaching and knowledge is often claimed by those doing so

    go figure
    That's actually kinda funny when you think about it.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    Actually, Jesus taught excommunication for the church to do, but they are not fake christians, but brothers that err that went astray.

    Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.




    While we are on the topic ... you did call Benny Hinn a charlatan earlier, right? That he is that one fake?



    You are my sister and you have the Holy Spirit in you & you are saved, so don't think that I think otherwise.

    I am addressing the issue that God would not mimic that kind of tongue that was in the world before Pentecost. I know that one site says they babble and they have interpreters, but it really is not a language of men like God's gift of tongues is. That is the distinction between the supernatural tongue found in the world and the real God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people.

    Otherwise, how can any church know that a sinner has repented from their former sinful practices and from that supernatural tongue if God can switch out the mode for what tongues were for and say it is for private use just because it comes with no interpretation?

    So as you say.. wheat and chaff... the wheat = God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips to speak unto the people 1 Corinthians 14:21 ; the chaff = vain and profane babbling nonsense that is not a language at all Isaiah 8:19

    It was prophesied that many shall depart from faith and give heed to seducing spirits and & doctrines of devils in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 in these latter days. The apostle John warned believers not to believe every spirit but test them as there is a supernatural tongue as found in the world as the spirit of error in 1 John 4:1-6

    It is not my favorite topic. It is my concern for the body of Christ today and I have scripture to justify my concern.

    well thanks re being your sister in Christ but please understand we truly disagree on the infilling of the Holy Spirit

    there are examples in scripture where people were saved and received the gift of speaking in tongues on a separate occasion

    I agree about departing from the faith...frankly I submitted to you my own concern of people spreading the lie that Jesus and Paul were somehow not on the same page

    this is all over the internet, but it is also refuted all over the internet so let God judge what is in people's hearts

    I submit to you that yes there are fake tongues but there are real tongues

    plenty of seducing spirits to go around and doctrines of devils, but I certainly do not believe speaking in tongues is one of them even though the actions of some are not in accordance with biblical instructions regarding the use of tongues

    I do pray in tongues and have found it to be very valuable. I have never acted unseemingly and I cannot approve of those who do. I have heard false interpretations and seen people doing weird things. I cannot account for them...only myself but I am positive I am not alone and not even alone in this forum with regards to that

    there are many itching ears and many false teachers to scratch them and some of those false teachers sound very knowledgeable and knowing, but when you have someone like MacArthur say everyone who speaks in tongues does so by a demonic spirit, I say it's time to sit up and ask questions of whether or not he is actually speaking from the spirit of God

    I certainly do not think he is. and frankly, while some are genuine in their doubt, some will be judged by what they say because their hearts are hard and they are proud and unhearing (don't take that personal...I don't mean you)

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by KelbyofGod View Post
    That's actually kinda funny when you think about it.

    haha

    the flip side of the same coin
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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by KelbyofGod View Post
    That's actually kinda funny when you think about it.
    Which is why I make the distinction that the real God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people is not really being practiced in today's churches when they insist they can use tongues privately also. When they claim they can do both, then I say they do not have the real God's gift of tongues that comes with interpretation.

    The only reason there are cessationists, is because of the abuse of tongues and seemingly no discipline in the assembly. Confusion reigns which God is not the author of.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    Which is why I make the distinction that the real God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people is not really being practiced in today's churches when they insist they can use tongues privately also. When they claim they can do both, then I say they do not have the real God's gift of tongues that comes with interpretation.

    The only reason there are cessationists, is because of the abuse of tongues and seemingly no discipline in the assembly. Confusion reigns which God is not the author of.

    nummmmmm

    no

    that is not the only reason

    we also have pride, self righteousness, unbelief and several other fleshly abberations

    and let's not forget when respected people say all those who speak in tongues are demonic

    nah

    there are a gang of reasons
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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by JairCrawford View Post
    Where did this doctrine come from?

    Is there any scripture to back it up? I have yet to find any.

    Why is cessationism versus continuation such a dividing factor in the church today?

    Obviously, I am not a cessationist. If you are, don't worry, I don't think you're a bad person or 'not saved' or anything ridiculous like that. But I am genuinely curious, why do you believe the Holy Spirit would just... stop doing what He's doing in the world in such a powerful way?
    Apparently because the signs and wonders were for the Jew's. And only these days wicked look for a sign etc.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    well thanks re being your sister in Christ but please understand we truly disagree on the infilling of the Holy Spirit
    That we do disagree on, sister. I say whenever a believer receives another infilling, that is not the Holy Spirit.

    there are examples in scripture where people were saved and received the gift of speaking in tongues on a separate occasion
    I can say definitely without a doubt, you are not reading those scripture right.

    I agree about departing from the faith...frankly I submitted to you my own concern of people spreading the lie that Jesus and Paul were somehow not on the same page

    this is all over the internet, but it is also refuted all over the internet so let God judge what is in people's hearts
    I am aware of it. Paul & Jesus spoke the same thing. There is only one gospel. It does not seem to be the current topic in this forum, but then again, I do not peruse all the threads.

    I submit to you that yes there are fake tongues but there are real tongues

    plenty of seducing spirits to go around and doctrines of devils, but I certainly do not believe speaking in tongues is one of them even though the actions of some are not in accordance with biblical instructions regarding the use of tongues
    I believe this the only Biblical proof of a supernatural tongue which is vain & profane babbling nonsense before Pentecost.

    Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

    I do pray in tongues and have found it to be very valuable.
    How? When you can't know if you are praying in tongues or speaking in tongues for self edification, how can you find it to be valuable?

    I have never acted unseemingly and I cannot approve of those who do. I have heard false interpretations and seen people doing weird things. I cannot account for them...only myself but I am positive I am not alone and not even alone in this forum with regards to that
    Well, John 16:13 testifies that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself, but speaks what He hears, and so it is from that verse found in all Bibles that proves the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to utter His own intercessions. A few translations has it right as KJV is one of them that Romans 8:26 testify that even His groanings cannot be uttered; hence no sound.

    But because of the majority modern Bibles of Romans 8:26-27, no matter that it does go against John 16:13 in that Bible, tongue speakers glosses over John 16:13 as if God did not really say that, and believe Romans 8:26-27 that implies sounds are being made when the Holy Spirit gives His intercessions Himself. So I blame the majority of modern Bibles today for why tongue speakers are misled into believing that they can pray in tongues. As for 1 Corinthians 14th chapter, they pull that out of context when Paul was saying that whenever a person speak in tongues, that person was to pray that another interprets because Paul stated that unless he as a tongue speaker understood that tongue as interpreted, it is unfruitful to himself. Therefore tongues cannot be used privately since it cannot benefit Paul unless interpreted by another and neither can it benefit you as far as the Bible says.

    This is about the issue of tongues for private use just as you took a stand against those who teach that Jesus & Paul are not on the same page.

    there are many itching ears and many false teachers to scratch them and some of those false teachers sound very knowledgeable and knowing, but when you have someone like MacArthur say everyone who speaks in tongues does so by a demonic spirit, I say it's time to sit up and ask questions of whether or not he is actually speaking from the spirit of God

    I certainly do not think he is. and frankly, while some are genuine in their doubt, some will be judged by what they say because their hearts are hard and they are proud and unhearing (don't take that personal...I don't mean you)
    I will not take that personally even though I am deaf in my left ear and have tinnitus in my right ear. I know that Jesus pointed out that there will be some that will not hear. It may be because they are unwilling to set aside their personal beliefs to weigh every scripture in proving or reproving the teaching or practice in the church, even in regards to tongues.

    I can only ask all tongue speakers to one day set aside their belief and practice of tongues, go before that throne of grace and pray normally for confirmation on the tongue they are using if it be of Him or not. Only God can cause the increase.

    Thank you for sharing, sister, but do know I disagree with the way tongues have been gained and used in the assembly disorderly, also for private use. They testify that 1 Corinthians 14:28 implies tongues being used privately, but Paul says let 2 or 3 speak in tongues and another interpret as the same format is for prophesying where 2 or 3 prophecy, and another judged. There can be no private use of tongues in the assembly when any of that officiated is going on. It would be distracting and confusion which God is not the author of.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    That we do disagree on, sister. I say whenever a believer receives another infilling, that is not the Holy Spirit.



    I can say definitely without a doubt, you are not reading those scripture right.



    I am aware of it. Paul & Jesus spoke the same thing. There is only one gospel. It does not seem to be the current topic in this forum, but then again, I do not peruse all the threads.



    I believe this the only Biblical proof of a supernatural tongue which is vain & profane babbling nonsense before Pentecost.

    Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?



    How? When you can't know if you are praying in tongues or speaking in tongues for self edification, how can you find it to be valuable?



    Well, John 16:13 testifies that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself, but speaks what He hears, and so it is from that verse found in all Bibles that proves the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to utter His own intercessions. A few translations has it right as KJV is one of them that Romans 8:26 testify that even His groanings cannot be uttered; hence no sound.

    But because of the majority modern Bibles of Romans 8:26-27, no matter that it does go against John 16:13 in that Bible, tongue speakers glosses over John 16:13 as if God did not really say that, and believe Romans 8:26-27 that implies sounds are being made when the Holy Spirit gives His intercessions Himself. So I blame the majority of modern Bibles today for why tongue speakers are misled into believing that they can pray in tongues. As for 1 Corinthians 14th chapter, they pull that out of context when Paul was saying that whenever a person speak in tongues, that person was to pray that another interprets because Paul stated that unless he as a tongue speaker understood that tongue as interpreted, it is unfruitful to himself. Therefore tongues cannot be used privately since it cannot benefit Paul unless interpreted by another and neither can it benefit you as far as the Bible says.

    This is about the issue of tongues for private use just as you took a stand against those who teach that Jesus & Paul are not on the same page.



    I will not take that personally even though I am deaf in my left ear and have tinnitus in my right ear. I know that Jesus pointed out that there will be some that will not hear. It may be because they are unwilling to set aside their personal beliefs to weigh every scripture in proving or reproving the teaching or practice in the church, even in regards to tongues.

    I can only ask all tongue speakers to one day set aside their belief and practice of tongues, go before that throne of grace and pray normally for confirmation on the tongue they are using if it be of Him or not. Only God can cause the increase.

    Thank you for sharing, sister, but do know I disagree with the way tongues have been gained and used in the assembly disorderly, also for private use. They testify that 1 Corinthians 14:28 implies tongues being used privately, but Paul says let 2 or 3 speak in tongues and another interpret as the same format is for prophesying where 2 or 3 prophecy, and another judged. There can be no private use of tongues in the assembly when any of that officiated is going on. It would be distracting and confusion which God is not the author of.

    okay

    there is a very well worn path around that mulberry bush enow and I think most of the footprints are yours

    how you can state that no one received an infilling of the Holy Spirit after salvation, when the Bible plainly states otherwise, may be a contributor to your stance

    I really do not wish to keep this going as it has been hashed out ad infinitum and I have a low boredom threshold

    14 Now when the apostles that were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: 16 for as yet it was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8

    these people were saved and even baptized but had NOT received the Holy Spirit so the Apostles prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit. it is stated very plainly that the Holy Spirit had NOT fallen on any of the saved people in Samaria.

    if you continue in this chapter, you will read where a man named Simon offered money to be able to give the gift of the Holy Spirit and of course he was soundly rebuked. this indicates an accepted occurrence of a second infilling. here we have the true reflected against the untrue.

    Paul clearly teaches that we should pray for the gifts of the Holy Spirit and states do not forbid speaking in tongues and also writes about praying and singing in tongues...I think it was Ben who started a thread on that directly, I believe due to your saying repeatedly that practice was fake. In fact, HERE is that thread

    so I am within biblical norms to pray for the Holy Spirit, to pray for spiritual gifts and to pray and sing in tongues

    it is clearly written and this is sufficient.

    this is my final say on the matter here


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    Default Re: Cessationism

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    nummmmmm

    no

    that is not the only reason

    we also have pride, self righteousness, unbelief and several other fleshly abberations
    That can also be charged towards tongue users as they claim they have something that other believers do not have, and it is for private use wherein they benefit supposedly. Add a nyah nyah and you can get the picture in how they come across.

    Yet 1 Corinthians 12:7 says that the manifestations is to profit withal.

    7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

    Not individually. If one reads on in chapter 12, you can see that reproof that believers are not reading Paul's words right in the 14th chapter.

    17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

    But guess what? That is what tongue speakers are saying when they insist they can use tongues privately.


    So how can that NOT come off as pride, separating oneself from the non tongue speakers in Christ?

    and let's not forget when respected people say all those who speak in tongues are demonic

    nah

    there are a gang of reasons
    Well, if they acknowledge the real God's gift of tongues as being of other men's lips for speaking unto the people, then I can understand that charge when they come across sinners using that same kind of tongue which cannot be interpreted.

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    Default Re: Cessationism

    so enow, do you have anything to say with regards to the fact that the Apostles prayed for the SAVED AND BAPTIZED believers in Samaria to receive the infilling of the Holy Spirit as a SECOND occurence?

    you know, if you do not, then it seems to me you are intent on avoiding them

    14 Now when the apostles that were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: 16 for as yet it was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8

    there is no record of interpretation and no record of people speaking in know tongues to unbelievers

    I guess make of it as you will but I have to say that passing that over and passing over what Paul plainly states is indicative of someone who has their mind made up and dang the truth

    sounds a little harsh, but you just do not answer certain things

    and now, truly, ENUFF LOL!
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