Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

Stunnedbygrace · Nov 19, 2017

I think the explanation IMO I highlighted in RED, as James was Yahshua/Jesus brother, he likely understood Him well;

1 John 3:14-15, “We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. The one not loving his brother stays in death. Everyone hating his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has everlasting life staying in him.”

Matthew 5:21-26, “You heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders shall be liable to judgment. But I say to you that whoever is wroth with his brother without a cause shall be liable to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raka!’ shall be liable to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, ‘You fool!(*Godless fool)’ shall be liable to fire of GĕHinnom. If, then, you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother holds whatever against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go, first make peace with your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Be well-minded with your opponent, promptly, while you are on the way with him, lest your opponent deliver you to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly, I say to you, you shall by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.”

*This word is not simply “fool” as we think today, but rather a mentally and spiritually emptiness;

G3474 μωρός moros (mō-ros') adj., 1. dull-witted, foolish, mentally slow (as if shut up), i.e. heedless., 2. (apparently) absurd. [probably from the base of G3466], KJV: fool(-ish, X -ishness) , Root(s): G3466

G3466 μυστήριον musterion (mï-stee'-riy-on) n., a secret or “mystery.”, {through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites}, [from a derivative of muo “to shut the mouth”], KJV: mystery

James 1:12-18, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah,” for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. Do not go astray, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning. Having purposed it, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.”

Not quite grasping what your answer is there hiz.

Stunnedbygrace · Nov 19, 2017

Marcelo said:

Yes, I'm serious and no I am not talking about not wearing wool with linen.

(Though I know even this law is spiritual and good and I suspect it has to do with not wearing the old with the new). I'm talking about not murdering anyone - the commandments written in stone. But then, I am usually talking about the spirit of the law and not the letter. If we were talking about the letter, we could all commend ourselves that we've kept that law all our life to not murder anyone. If we look at the spirit of the law however, no one has ever kept it. Jesus explained the spirit of that law.

Hizikyah · Nov 19, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

Hizikyah said:

Stunnedbygrace said:

Sorry I forgot to post 27-32:

Matthew 5:27-32, “You heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone looking at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom. And it has been said, ‘Whoever puts away his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce. But I say to you that whoever puts away his wife, except for the matter of whoring, makes her commit adultery. And whoever marries a woman who has been put away commits adultery.”

James 1:12-18, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah,” for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. Do not go astray, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning. Having purposed it, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.”

SO I beleive when Yahshua/Jesus says: "looking at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom"

The explantion of how this is in practice is explained by James hrere "when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death"

Then to put in my own words; when I man looks upon a woman with great lust, if cultivated it will bring forth acting on that lust, when that lust is acted upon it births sin, when one lives a live of sin it brings forth the second death.

MarcR · Nov 19, 2017

Sinceritas said:

The answer to your question depends on how you understand the purpose of the Law.

If, as I do, you understand the purpose of the law to be demonstrating the futility of trying to please God by your own efforts; then you will realize that you cannot keep the Law and won't bother trying.

If you view the law as a Do It Yourself pathway to God's acceptance you will IMO discover that it is instead a pathway to Hell.

If you trust God's grace alone for both Salvation and sanctification; and elect to keep parts of the law because you appreciate their relevance in your Christian walk; there is no harm in that unless you try to impose the practice on others.

Marcelo · Nov 19, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

Yes, I'm serious and no I am not talking about not wearing wool with linen.

(Though I know even this law is spiritual and good and I suspect it has to do with not wearing the old with the new). I'm talking about not murdering anyone - the commandments written in stone. But then, I am usually talking about the spirit of the law and not the letter. If we were talking about the letter, we could all commend ourselves that we've kept that law all our life to not murder anyone. If we look at the spirit of the law however, no one has ever kept it. Jesus explained the spirit of that law.

As for the fourth commandment you rest in Jesus, right?

Hizikyah · Nov 19, 2017

Marcelo said:

None have enter into Yahshua/Jesus true rest YET;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], for which you also suffer, since [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter 3:8, “But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hosheyah 6:1-3, “Come, and let us turn back to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. For He has torn but He does heal us, He has stricken but He binds us up[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up, so that we live before Him. So let us know, let us pursue to know [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. His going forth is as certain as the morning. And He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Rev 20:4-6, "And I saw thrones – and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them – and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and because of the Word of Ylohim, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years and the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended) – this is the first resurrection. Blessed and set-apart is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death possesses no authority over these, but they shall be priests of YHWH and of Messiah, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For Messiah said:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The real rest is this:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"[/FONT]

Marcelo · Nov 19, 2017

Hizikyah said:

So we have to keep the Sabbath to the letter?

Hizikyah · Nov 19, 2017

Marcelo said:

I believe we should keep it as Yahshua said, the letter in it true intent, one can takethe letter and twist it either way, but the spirit is the true intent of the letter.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

Its purpose is to rest from doing our will and do His will. People that say they do this everyday are lying, we have to work, mow the lawn do the dishes, etc. these things are not bad but im not mowing my own lawn "for God" or watching the football game "for God".

It is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

Stunnedbygrace · Nov 19, 2017

Marcelo said:

You mean me personally?
I sometimes break the Sabbath rest because I find myself worrying about either temporal provision or spiritual provision. I don't go for long in it as I used to but if I am honest, it still happens occasionally. Mostly though, I can see and quell the temptation to stop resting in Him and His promises pretty quickly now.

MarcR · Nov 19, 2017

Scripture without context is usually a pretext for subterfuge; often in connection with a scam.

Stunnedbygrace · Nov 19, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Sorry I forgot to post 27-32:

Matthew 5:27-32, “You heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone looking at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom. And it has been said, ‘Whoever puts away his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce. But I say to you that whoever puts away his wife, except for the matter of whoring, makes her commit adultery. And whoever marries a woman who has been put away commits adultery.”

James 1:12-18, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah,” for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. Do not go astray, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning. Having purposed it, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.”

SO I beleive when Yahshua/Jesus says: "looking at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for your entire body to be thrown into GĕHinnom"

The explantion of how this is in practice is explained by James hrere "when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death"

Then to put in my own words; when I man looks upon a woman with great lust, if cultivated it will bring forth acting on that lust, when that lust is acted upon it births sin, when one lives a live of sin it brings forth the second death.

Your last sentence here. Where you say when the lust is acted on, sin is birthed.
Jesus says the sin has already been committed in the persons heart. Adultery has already been committed even if the person does not act outwardly on the lust.

No one would sin outwardly unless they had already done so inwardly, in the heart and mind.

Hizikyah · Nov 19, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

Yes I agrre , but it is just that "committed adultery with her in his heart"

This does not mean one has literally committed adultery, but has "in his heart" like James said and I kind of worded myself, if that thought is cultivated one will end up doing it literally. James was Yahshua/brother, it has been my view that he understood this principle well. Also jsut for clarification not saying it ok to do it in the heart because that is the wrong path.

Stunnedbygrace · Nov 19, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Thinking more about this...it is what comes from inside a man that defiles him. We, in our human understanding and insistence, find this very hard to grasp. We judge outwardly and think the literal act of adultery is where the defilement/sin happens. But really, that's just...sort of like a visible symptom. In sickness, the symptom is not the problem, it's simply a result of the problem.

For instance, when I throw my back out, I walk all hunched over and crooked. But the way I walk is a symptom of my problem. It is not THE problem. If something hadn't happened inside me, with the alignment of my spine first, there would not be the outward symptom of walking crooked and hunched over.

It would never occur to a chiropractor to say: oh, I see what your problem is - you are walking all hunched over! Stand up and walk straight! You wouldn't pay the quack a dime!

Not sure if you can follow me. I'm not a very concise talker.

Stunnedbygrace · Nov 19, 2017

In fact, you could say about someone who thinks you can be fixed by getting rid of symptoms: he puts a bandaid on a mortal wound.

Stunnedbygrace · Nov 19, 2017

Bedtime here. As always, I have really enjoyed talking with you guys.

Marc, very wise in our Lord. You always have wisdom in a matter.

Marcelo, your concern for us is like a father.

CherieR · Nov 19, 2017

beta said:

When we know more and more how much God loves us, we will love him more. When we know we have received mercy because we have put our faith and trust in Jesus, we are able to show mercy to others. If we know that God loves others just as he loves us and wants to not just have mercy on us but them too, and that every soul is valuable, we will show more respect. If we know we are sinners like everyone else and know the wickedness of our hearts before knowing Christ ( such as hate in the heart for some people) and the bad things we have done, we are more likely to show love and have mercy.

CherieR · Nov 19, 2017

It is important to believe and trust in Jesus, love God with everything we are, and love our neighbor as ourselves. As we grow in Christ and learn the truth, God is able to work in us to love him and others. Learning about the love of God and knowing he has shown us mercy through Christ, compels us to love him more.

Adstar · Nov 19, 2017

Jesus abolished the curse of the law..

The curse of the Law is not the law itself..

The curse of the law was that anyone who failed to do the law would die..

Not just physical death but also the second death which is in the Eternal lake of fire..

The Law is good and we should try to do it..

But our failure to do the law is covered by the Atoning Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ..

OneFaith · Nov 19, 2017

Sinceritas said:

God’s law was not nailed to the cross (abolished), but the physical way of obeying it was. Therefore we are no longer under the law of Moses, but we are under God’s law forever. What’s the difference? We no longer obey physically, we now obey spiritually. For example, we don’t physically rest on a physical day, we rest spiritually with “the peace that surpasses understanding.” We no longer sacrifice a physically perfect lamb, the spiritually perfect Lamb of God is our sacrifice. We no longer pay for certain things with certain animals, etc. The law of Moses is gone forever, but God’s law will always remain.

followjesus · Nov 19, 2017

Sinceritas said:

many will explain how " love thy neighbor replaces the law, that is not what paul taught, he taught that to say " Love thy neighbor as thyself" is a brief way to summarize the commandments he says this regarding the commandments.

romans 13:8-10 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

to say " Love one another" is a way to say keep the commandments, because if you are Loving you will not steal, you will not commit adultery, you will not lie to, you will not bear false witness, covet, or dishonor......Love is action and as many try hard to seperate it from the covenant Law the ten commandments, it cant be seperated. in fact...to God Love is to keeop His commandments. to not lie to each other, to not steal from each other, to not plot, and bear false witness against, to honor commitments and so on. His commandments are mostly about How we treat other people. John says it this way very clearly

1 john 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

its love to keep the commandments, its not all there is to love, but one cannot Love and also be transgressing any of the commandments. i cant say i love you....if im sleeping with your wife. I cant say i love you if im stealing from you when you turn your back, i cant say i love you if im plotting to kill you or bearing a grudge against you, i cant say i love you if you are a poor man in need and i refuse to share my plenty with you.......on and on.

Gods ways are what Love is in truth and we cant seperate our actions, from whether we are Loving others. no Jesus did not abolish the ten commandments, he fulfilled the Mosaic Law for us to make us able to walk in the covenant Law without greivance to do so. our nature is to be changed through Gods Love expressed to us in Christ, and through belief in Jesus Christ and the Gospel...because the gospel includes the teachings of our Lord it has the power to change our hearts and minds. so we no longer have to see it as " thou shalt not kill" but rather " Love like the good samaritan" go beyond to help the needs of others. Jesus did change some things however he does it in His teachings. and he says why " moses said this because your hearts were hard" but im telling you this other thing because the gospel is for salvation of sinners through calling them to repentance, and not condemnation of them.

Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

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