Colossians 2.

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malachi 4:1-6, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts. Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’yl – laws and right-rulings. See, I am sending you Ěliyah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome day of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And he shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with utter destruction.”

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[OneFaith]

I believe Moses not create his own law. Moses only teach what God want him to teach.

I believe that too. The law of Moses was not created by Moses, it was exercised by the authority of Moses. God gave authority to Moses to give God’s law to the people- just like the owner of a business gives authority to a manager to exercise his business on His behalf. But the authority given to Moses has now been taken away, nailed to the cross, and given to the Owner’s Son. We are now only under the Son’s authority. (Matthew 28:18).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As was explained to you in another thread.

The law was not nailed. THE CURSE of the law was nailed.

The things which were written and stood against us are things that made us guilty before God. As Moses said in Deuteronomy and Paul confirmed in Gal 3. Anyone who did not OBEY EVERY WORD (you could say EVERY JOT AND TITTLE) was under a curse. And since NO ONE has ever fulfilled the law. We are all found GUILTY by the law and under a curse.

Apart from the cross. We would all be condemned.

The commands themselves still stand today as a schoolmaster. A sin is still a sin, that was not nailed to the cross. However, the law is not a very good tool to show us how to be sanctified. But that is another topic.

 

[Studyman]

=Nehemiah6;3377617]

Well if it is then that is false teaching. How could God's commandments be nailed to the Cross? The guilty criminal goes to prison and pays the penalty for his crimes. The law shows what that penalty should be.

But Jesus didn't destroy the LAW that sent the GUILTY prisoner to prison. He destroyed that penalty. He said the LAW would always be there.

That is akin to eliminating the speed limit law so people don't get tickets. Rather than the penalty being used as a deterrent to drive respectfully for the safety of yourself and others. Paul speaks to this specifically.

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

A speed limit is good, thou shall not kill is good.


13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Isn't Paul stating that the reason why the penalty for rejecting God's Word and Transgressing them, which is death, is so steep that we would be careful not to do it? That we would know just how "EXCEEDINGLY" Wicked sin is?




Rom. 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

God told the "Branches" that if they wanted to live, then choose Him and His Ways over their own minds. They didn't believe Him and chose their own minds as it is written. Abraham though, did believe Him and followed God and His WAYS not even placing his own son before God. These are examples of people who choose belief, and those who choose unbelief.



21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

It wasn't the Law that Jesus destroyed as He said. It was the penalty.

What that verse means is that the verdict of "GUILTY" against every human being for every sin was nailed to that Cross, and "ordinances" refers back to all the laws listed in the Torah. When Christ was nailed to the Cross, He was made SIN for us. That means that all our sins and all of our guilt were laid on Him, and He himself paid the penalty for every man's sins.

But in regards to Col. 2, That isn't what it says. I know the mainstream teaching. What the OP was about is the actual words of the author. The "Handwriting of Ordinances" that were against Paul and the Gentiles, were characterized as "Rudiments of the World" and "Traditions of men", "Vain deceits". God's Law is neither.


I asked some specific questions. The Law does much more than give a penalty. "I would not know to Love my Neighbor if the Law hadn't said " Lev. 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. For by the Law is the knowledge of sin.

Nowhere in Col. 2 does it even suggest Jesus nailed the knowledge of sin to the Cross.

 

[OneFaith]

Yes the law/God's 10 Commandments are still with us...

just observed differently from the letter of the OT.

Not only the Ten Commandments, all Old Testament law is obeyed spiritually (not physically) today.

 

[Studyman]

That's one interpretation. Since we are dealing with spiritual matters, the more likely interpretation is "elemental spirits". Animists and pantheists and many pagan religions believe that nature is composed of elemental spirits. American Indians believe that all creatures have spirits and Shamanism is involved with summoning the elemental spirits (actually evil spirits deceiving the deceived). So these are the rudiments of the world which lead to superstition and witchcraft, and bring people into bondage.

When Paul says "let no man beguile you" he is telling Christians to be on guard against a variety of deceptions (including Gnostic ideas) and superstitions.

Not to nitpick here, but I can't find one place where Pagans were trying to convert the Gentiles away for the preaching of Jesus and Paul..

when asked about the times Jesus gave a specific warning, about a specific people. He could have said to beware of Pagans, Atheists, etc. But He didn't.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

These "MANY" come in Christ's name, they Preach Jesus is truly the Son of God, and they tell lies about Him.

Paul fought with the Only God of Abraham preaching people on the planet. I can't think of any instance where pagans were disputing with him.

So you might be right about Paul being worried that the Gentiles who had turned to God would be "spoiled" by pagans. But I belief scripture leans more toward those who "Worshipped God in Vain".

 

[Studyman]

=posthuman;3377680]
so which things are/were shadows of what is/was to come?

the answer to this question is written for us clearly:

The Law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves.
(Hebrews 10:1)​

Thanks for the reply.

Once again, I know what we have been taught by the religious franchises of the world about these scriptures. But I was hoping you might read them for yourself.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

So what did Christ teach? traditions of Men, or the Word of God?

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

If I am to believe what is commonly taught, that what Jesus nailed to His Cross was God's Word, handwritten in ordinances, then this has to mean Jesus made a show if God openly, triumphing over Him. That the Principalities and powers that Jesus "spoiled" was God and His Word.

This is not true according to the Bible. This preaching is man's "philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

It was men, who came in God's name, that Paul was worried about. It was their Laws and Traditions that Jesus nailed to the cross, they He "Spoiled" and made a show of openly, triumphing over them.

so what was Paul talking about?

Then after Paul spelled out what Jesus had done, he continued with the Gentiles who were following God, not man.

Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ. (Not "philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world")

​

which ordinances were crucified, again? is he talking about traditions and extra-scriptural, vain human commands? all those things he mentioned are specifically parts of the Law, which is a marriage contract, a broken one, that you and i were not part of. we are betrothed under what was promised through the prophets: "

a new covenant, a better one"

That is the mainstream preaching I know. But the purpose of the OP is to show this teaching makes no sense and does not line up with the rest of the Bible.

There is no "VAIN" human Commands given by God. There are the "handwriting of ordinances" which Paul called "rudiments of the world and traditions of man, (Jewish custom), and there is God's Commandments and instructions, many of which are shadows of "GOOD" things to come.

One was nailed to the cross, "man's religious law", and the other Paul is instructing the Gentiles not to let men judge them in their "voluntary humility and worshipping of angels". The Mainstream preachers of Paul's time didn't know what they were talking about.

Shadows of things to come are not bad. Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of sins was a shadow of Christ's Priesthood. Feast of Trumpets is a shadow of something that hasn't happened yet. Paul taught that the first has been changed, while telling the Gentiles not to let men judge them in the observance of the second.

so did we find a contradiction in the scripture, or a misinterpretation of it?

Definitely miss-interpretation.

 

[Studyman]

Here is a simple, and I guess UNKNOWN fact. Be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit. Do not quench the Spirit and do not grieve the Spirit......we are doing Gods will if we follow these simple guide lines.


Go ahead and try to follow all the other rules(in the flesh.) YOU and WE will ALWAYS fail.

Yes, God's Rules are Spiritual as it is written. Mans rules, their images of God they created after the likeness of man, their own high days and righteousness, their own definition of Holy and clean. Men's rules are fleshy.

These are the "Other" rules that men follow.

"Go ahead and try to follow all the other rules(in the flesh.) YOU and WE will ALWAYS fail"

Great post.

 

[Studyman]

yes

but it is often called "Moses Law" because of whom it was given through, for example,

For the Law was given through Moses;
grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
(John 1:17)
​

Yes, but everyone knows it isn't Moses Law, it is Gods. So to paraphrase:

God gave us His Instructions, but Jesus, through His selfless sacrifice, gave us "Grace" (forgiveness) and spiritual understanding of God's Instructions. (Truth).

the Bible itself calls it "the Law of Moses" for example here:

For it is written in the law of Moses, Do not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain. Is God really concerned with oxen?
(1 Corinthians 9:9)
​

Again, God gave the instruction. But understanding of this instruction is given by Jesus.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

With this Spirit we are able to understand what Jesus meant, when he wrote before becoming a man, "Do not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain."

but when we read that, we should understand just like you say, God gave the laws, and Moses acted as His prophet, going between God and the people -- at Sinai when He made that contract ((for the Law is a contract)) with the people, they specifically requested that Moses go between them and God, because they were afraid that if they stood before God directly, they would be destroyed.

Adam and Eve also were afraid to approach God after they rebelled against Him. Joshua, Caleb, and Moses, were not afraid to approach God. But that is a different study.

 

[Studyman]

This is called "the simplicity of Christ", and this is also taught in Colossians 2.

Here is how one can summarize this chapter and apply its teachings:

HUMAN WISDOM IS ALWAYS IN CONFLICT WITH GOD'S WISDOM

1. God's wisdom and knowledge are perfect -- vv 1-3

2. False teachers deceive and entice Christians with their wisdom -- v 4

3. Christians are to walk by faith totally focused on Christ Jesus the Lord -- vv 5-7

4. Christians are to beware of Gnosticism, Rabbinism, and pagan superstitions -- v 8

5. Christians are complete in Christ -- vv 9-13

6. Our sins and our guilt were nailed to the Cross and expunged -- v 14

7. Christ triumphed over Satan and all evil spirits through His finished work -- v 15

8. Religious ceremonial observances are null and void -- vv 16,17

9. We are not to be deceived into Monasticism and angel worship (including prayers to Mary and the saints) -- vv 18,19

10. We are no longer subject to carnal ordinances and dietary restrictions as per the traditions of men -- vv 20-22

11. Asceticism is "will worship", not true worship -- v 23

A lot of this teaching would be applicable to the doctrines and practices of the RCC.

Are you supporting this teach of the catholic church, or just pointing out.

 

[Studyman]

"tradition" is singular here in the scripture, not plural.

he is not warning against being deceived into following "traditions" ((plural)) -- but about being deceived 'after the tradition ((singular)) of men'

so, obvious question:

in the context of what is being said -- which is walking, being rooted, building, being established ((vv. 6-7)) -- what exactly is 'the tradition ((singular)) of men' ?

isn't it human tradition, as far as religion & justification before God, to keep a bunch of laws? to attain worthiness by our works? to establish a righteousness for ourselves? to lay out a group or ordinances and regulations, by which man says they are 'holy' if they obey them? setting up a means of comparison between men - this one is holier, he keeps more of these regulations; this one is not as holy, he fails - setting up a way for men to judge one another?

that's exactly what 99% of all religious belief on the planet is. is that 'tradition' of mankind? it's what the Jews did, and still do. my understanding is that Christianity is actually the exception to this rule . . ?

I don't follow the man made teaching that the Mainstream preachers of Christ's time were trying to be justified by following God's instructions as Jesus did. They had created their own laws and their own religion. That is what was against Paul and the Gentiles. Not God's Commandments.

One either believes in the God/Jesus of the Bible or he doesn't. To equate a commandments of God "Love your neighbor as yourself" with a tradition of men, "creating images of God after the likeness of a long haired men's hair shampoo model, and placing Jesus' name on it", is not a wise or honest comparison, though "many" it seems are willing to make such comparisons.

I wouldn't make a big deal of tradition vs. traditions, in this translation. Rudiments is plural, I am not convinced that having an "S" on the end of tradition changes the meaning of these scriptures.

So the question is, can you create your own "Path" to eternity by rejecting God's Words?

Mainstream Christianity says YES! The Pharisees said YES! Cain said YES!

But Abraham said no! Caleb said no! Rehab said no! Zacharias said no! Noah said no!

I don't believe God's Word's are no different than mans Words. Neither did Paul.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

I can't see where the mainstream preachers of Christ's time are any different than the mainstream preachers of our time. But I am no longer a partaker of either's religious traditions, so it isn't uncomfortable for me to speak openly about it any more. I understand the implications of the OP.

 

[Studyman]

I want to add ordinances or decrees are not that of YHWH but rather opinions of man

Colossians 2:20 If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances*?



*G1379 δογματίζω dogmatizo (d̮og-ma-tiy'-zō) v.
1. to prescribe by decree or statute.
2. (reflexively) to submit to decree, ceremonially rule by decree.
3. (passively) to be subject to decrees.
[from G1378]
KJV: be subject to ordinances
Root(s): G1378


G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n.
1. that which is supposed as good or which seems right (whether it actually is or not).
2. (concisely) an opinion on a matter.
3. (by conclusion) a decree or ordinance (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical).
[from the base of G1380]
KJV: decree, ordinance

Also


Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”

All the Sabbaths are 100% founded in Scripture and about the Messiah:


Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever
4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever




thus any who use this as a way to testify against YHWH's Sabbath's are missusing the passage.

Thank you Hiz,

That is a great point. Paul is clarifying what the "handwriting of ordinances" are that Jesus nailed to the cross, traditions of men, not Commandments of God.

Thank you

 

[Hizikyah]

Thank you Hiz,

That is a great point. Paul is clarifying what the "handwriting of ordinances" are that Jesus nailed to the cross, traditions of men, not Commandments of God.

Thank you

If anyone claims the Law/Commandments are done away they are contradicting what the Messiah Himself said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

The ten words were a specific part of His covenant with Israel. They were then expanded on in detail in Exod 21-23.



The so called ten commandments were given to Israel because God had delivered them from Egypt. They were the foundation of the law of Moses, and the basis by which Israel were to live.

Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

God renewed His everlasting Covenant with Abraham after His people had lost sight of them. He "Added" the Levitical Priesthood as a way to

#1. Administer God's everlasting Commandments

#2. Set up Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "works of the Law" for remission of sins until the Messiah would come.

The New Covenant "Changed" this Priesthood, didn't destroy it, or the Commandments they administered. Only these two things were "changed" by the New Covenant. Read Jer. 31, where God told us about this change and tell me where He eliminated or re-defined His Commandments.

It isn't there.

But that is for another thread.

 

[Studyman]

As was explained to you in another thread.

The law was not nailed. THE CURSE of the law was nailed.

The things which were written and stood against us are things that made us guilty before God. As Moses said in Deuteronomy and Paul confirmed in Gal 3. Anyone who did not OBEY EVERY WORD (you could say EVERY JOT AND TITTLE) was under a curse. And since NO ONE has ever fulfilled the law. We are all found GUILTY by the law and under a curse.

Apart from the cross. We would all be condemned.

The commands themselves still stand today as a schoolmaster. A sin is still a sin, that was not nailed to the cross. However, the law is not a very good tool to show us how to be sanctified. But that is another topic.

I'm sorry EG,

I must have misunderstood the following exchange.

What part of God's 10 Commandments are #1. "Handwritten" and#2. "Against us"?

The part that Moses made the children of Isreal confirm an oath that they will OBEY every word.

The two tablets are in the ark of the covenant, On the day of atonement, the priest covered the ark so the cherub could not see the two tablets. (And also the manna and rod,)

why did the blood need to over so the judges could not see the tablets?

Do you even understand the law your trying to impose on people?

I don't think any of this reflects the message in Col. 2.

Duet. 27:17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.
19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.

24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say, Amen.
25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

How is any of these things "rudiments of the world" "Tradition of men". How are any of these things against us?

I agree with your reply to this OP in part. But I am speaking to Col. 2.

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

How can the "handwriting on ordinances" be from God's Word. I mean, Jesus is the Word made flesh and blood. Are you saying that the principalities and powers Jesus "Spoiled" was God, or Himself? Did He "make a show of His Father openly"? Did He triumph over God?

I agree that death is not good. But it did bring us to Christ. The Jews taught that Jesus was guilty, that the Gentiles were guilty, that Paul was guilty. "We have a law, and by our Law He should die".

In the context of Paul's warnings in Col. 2, it was these "ordinances" that Jesus made a show of openly. It was the Jewish traditions that transgressed the Commandments of God, that condemned Jesus, Paul and the gentiles who had turned to God.

Not God's Commandments.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

as opposed to:

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Can you understand what I am trying to say?

 

[posthuman]

Are you perhaps missing something here ?
The people only requested Moses to go between them and God AFTER the 10 Commandments had already been given them by God personally Ex 20v18, 19 and Deut 5v22-25...and to which God added no more....the rest were given through Moses. The people said they did not want to hear God anymore...but they had already heard the 10 Commandments....therefore they (the 10 Commandments) can not all be lumped together as one law with the rest of them and called 'Moses law. Christians are making this mistake and falsly abolish all including the sabbath day....they are in gross error !

well i was only explaining to Jackson that 'Law of Moses' is indeed a Biblical term.

but yes, in the record it is actually immediately after God speaks the decalogue that they ask that there be an intercessor. Hebrew writing isn't always chronological though, it may not mean that this is exactly the sequential order of events, but that it is listed in this sequence in order to convey a meaning.

All the people perceived the thunder and the lightning flashes and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance. Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.” Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin.” So the people stood at a distance, while Moses approached the thick cloud where God was.
(Exodus 20:18-21)
​

vv. 1-17 are 'the ten commandments'
it's not actually clear whether the people heard and understood these commands, or if Moses relayed them. verse 18 says they perceived the thunder, lightning, the smoke, and the sound of the trumpet. it doesn't say they heard and understood the words.

whether they did or did not hear and understand these things directly by the voice of God, i don't think this is grounds to call the ten commandments a 'different law' that is separate from all the other things God told Moses to speak before them as a covenant. the Law is one law; it is a contract, a covenant. it is the terms of a marriage; the Father and the nation Israel. as James says, if you break one part of the Law, you have broken all of it -- James then does not seem to think of the Law as being separable: it is one covenant, all or nothing.

 

[posthuman]

Yes, it was MEN who taught the gentiles couldn't be saved without physical circumcision, therefore remained dead in their sins. It was their "handwriting of ordinances" that taught this, not God's Laws.

Paul doesn't write here "therefore let no one judge you with regard to circumcision of the flesh" -- though he certainly does say that for example in his letter to the Galatians. but it is God's own law that required physical circumcision -- Genesis 17:12, Exodus 12:48, Ezekiel 44:9 etc -- physical circumcision for Jews as a matter of course, and for any foreigner who wished to come near or to have part in Passover. the observant Jews did not just pull this out of thin air: they were applying the Law, as though it was still the covenant in effect.


he says let no one judge you with regard to:

• food and drink -- which is part of the Law
• feast days -- which is part of the Law
• new moon -- which is part of the Law
• sabbath -- which is part of the Law

and he calls these things shadows. food and drink regulations. feast days appointed in the Law. sabbath observance.

"tradition of men" is singular in the text, not plural. what is "the tradition of men" that may draw us away from the faith in which we ought to be established?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm sorry EG,

I must have misunderstood the following exchange.

What part of God's 10 Commandments are #1. "Handwritten" and#2. "Against us"?


I don't think any of this reflects the message in Col. 2.

Duet. 27:17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.
19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.

24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say, Amen.
25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

How is any of these things "rudiments of the world" "Tradition of men". How are any of these things against us?

I agree with your reply to this OP in part. But I am speaking to Col. 2.

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

How can the "handwriting on ordinances" be from God's Word. I mean, Jesus is the Word made flesh and blood. Are you saying that the principalities and powers Jesus "Spoiled" was God, or Himself? Did He "make a show of His Father openly"? Did He triumph over God?

I agree that death is not good. But it did bring us to Christ. The Jews taught that Jesus was guilty, that the Gentiles were guilty, that Paul was guilty. "We have a law, and by our Law He should die".

In the context of Paul's warnings in Col. 2, it was these "ordinances" that Jesus made a show of openly. It was the Jewish traditions that transgressed the Commandments of God, that condemned Jesus, Paul and the gentiles who had turned to God.

Not God's Commandments.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

as opposed to:

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Can you understand what I am trying to say?

Why do youy keep insisting on preaching following Gods commands, then continually break the one who says bearing false witness is against us.

Thats why I gave up discussing anything with you. Your not being honest, You twist everything people say.

I never said the t4en commands wer against us, Yet you keep saying I am, or asking which ones were against us. To which I have answered multiple times now. That NON WERE.

thats two threads now you havce totally disgraced yourself. In the same topic. DO not expect people to converse with you if your going to keep on with this nonsense.

 

[lightbearer]

Why do youy keep insisting on preaching following Gods commands, then continually break the one who says bearing false witness is against us.
.

Is this the norm here? Rather than address the post just slander the poster? Can you answer his post with a rebuttal? If not why say anything....

 

[lightbearer]

Paul doesn't write here "therefore let no one judge you with regard to circumcision of the flesh" -- though he certainly does say that for example in his letter to the Galatians. but it is God's own law that required physical circumcision -- Genesis 17:12, Exodus 12:48, Ezekiel 44:9 etc -- physical circumcision for Jews as a matter of course, and for any foreigner who wished to come near or to have part in Passover. the observant Jews did not just pull this out of thin air: they were applying the Law, as though it was still the covenant in effect.


he says let no one judge you with regard to:

• food and drink -- which is part of the Law
• feast days -- which is part of the Law
• new moon -- which is part of the Law
• sabbath -- which is part of the Law

and he calls these things shadows. food and drink regulations. feast days appointed in the Law. sabbath observance.....

Sabbaths is plural. Colossians 2:14 brings the context in. It says, "Blotting out the handwriting to the Decrees that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The clause "TO THE DECREES" possesses the definite article "the". And it is also in the Dative case. Hence the word "to".

The Decrees are the Laws of GOD. They were not against us, the handwriting to them were. These are they which contained the judgements, sacrificial and ceremonial laws. Having stripped the principal offices and the positions of authority, (The Levitical Priesthood) he exposed them openly, having triumphed over them by it. Triumphed over the handwriting to the Decrees by obeying the Decrees. He was in all points tempted as we, yet without sin. He therefore stripped the principle offices and positions of authority which were of the handwriting of the Decrees by doing the Decrees. Took them away nailing them to the Cross.

The Context is quite clear. The handwriting to the Decrees is what was nailed to the Cross.

The 7th Day Sabbath is of the Decrees not the handwriting to the Decrees.

(Col 2:15; Heb 4:15)