Colossians 2.
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those aren't part of the 10, they're part of 'the ordinances' -- according to what you say. 'not part of the whole law' merely Leviticus & stuff.
when you have a boat, and you move the balance point outside the edges of the boat, off to one side, the boat flips over and you're all wet.
it's just physics. ♥
when you have a boat, and you move the balance point outside the edges of the boat, off to one side, the boat flips over and you're all wet.
it's just physics. ♥
=posthuman;3378801]
Then by your same reasoning, if you love your neighbor as yourself, you are obligated to keep the whole law, every single part of it. I think it is your understanding that has been influenced by mainstream preaching that is in error.
Paul is preaching the Law and Prophets, not what the mainstream deceivers of his time called the Law. It was always a choice for men to make.
Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Forcing someone to physically cut themselves was never the intent or point of the Law, as the Law and Prophets clearly point out. Circumcision is a Spiritual work between a person and God. You can't force someone to honor God. They must make the choice themselves. This is what the OT taught if you consider it's teaching as a whole.
I posted what Jesus said about men. It seems clear that He is saying it is a "tradition of men" to love darkness rather than light. If you equate God's Word as light, and man's nature as darkness, it doesn't take a genius to see that man's traditions are not to be followed.
The Mainstream Preachers of His time had created their own commandments, their own righteousness, their own images of God in the likeness of man, and Jesus rejected them from His Kingdom. Many preach falsely, that the Pharisees were trying to earn their salvation by keeping God's Laws. If you actually listen to what Jesus said about them, you will see that this is not an accurate teaching.
That's a pretty big deal.
So it isn't any wonder that Paul would warn the Gentiles to be careful of man's doctrines. and traditions.
You are off the rails here friend.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Once again, you are confusing God's Laws with man's tradition. I addressed this in the OP. The mainstream preachers of his time were "Transgressing God's Commandments by their own traditions" they were "Teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men". Why? Because as Jesus said, men love darkness (Their own mind) and not Light. (The Word of God made Flesh)
I don't believe God's Word is a "Rudiment of the World", and Paul didn't either.
He speaks of "ordinances" that are "traditions of men", and he speaks of Sabbaths etc. that are "shadows of things to come". The first he teaches against. The latter he tells the gentiles not to let "MAN" judge them for following, or "Beguile" them out of their reward.
Paul is giving a warning in Col. 2.
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men"
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
He warns against deceit and traditions of men. Then he says let no "MAN" judge you in your obedience to God. For these things are "shadows of things to come". God's Holy Days spell out His Salvation plan, of course Paul wants the Gentile believers to know them.
But are traditions of man, and rudiments of the world "Shadows of things to come"? Of course not.
But you seem to be preaching that it is a bad thing for the Gentiles not to let "MEN" judge them for following the same Path Jesus walked.
"Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels,"
And what reward awaits those who follow the rudiments of the world, and tradition of men?
The reason for this OP is to point out the difference between mainstream preaching and what the Chapter actually says.
Then by your same reasoning, if you love your neighbor as yourself, you are obligated to keep the whole law, every single part of it. I think it is your understanding that has been influenced by mainstream preaching that is in error.
Paul is preaching the Law and Prophets, not what the mainstream deceivers of his time called the Law. It was always a choice for men to make.
Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Forcing someone to physically cut themselves was never the intent or point of the Law, as the Law and Prophets clearly point out. Circumcision is a Spiritual work between a person and God. You can't force someone to honor God. They must make the choice themselves. This is what the OT taught if you consider it's teaching as a whole.
I posted what Jesus said about men. It seems clear that He is saying it is a "tradition of men" to love darkness rather than light. If you equate God's Word as light, and man's nature as darkness, it doesn't take a genius to see that man's traditions are not to be followed.
The Mainstream Preachers of His time had created their own commandments, their own righteousness, their own images of God in the likeness of man, and Jesus rejected them from His Kingdom. Many preach falsely, that the Pharisees were trying to earn their salvation by keeping God's Laws. If you actually listen to what Jesus said about them, you will see that this is not an accurate teaching.
That's a pretty big deal.
So it isn't any wonder that Paul would warn the Gentiles to be careful of man's doctrines. and traditions.
You are off the rails here friend.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Once again, you are confusing God's Laws with man's tradition. I addressed this in the OP. The mainstream preachers of his time were "Transgressing God's Commandments by their own traditions" they were "Teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men". Why? Because as Jesus said, men love darkness (Their own mind) and not Light. (The Word of God made Flesh)
I don't believe God's Word is a "Rudiment of the World", and Paul didn't either.
He speaks of "ordinances" that are "traditions of men", and he speaks of Sabbaths etc. that are "shadows of things to come". The first he teaches against. The latter he tells the gentiles not to let "MAN" judge them for following, or "Beguile" them out of their reward.
Paul is giving a warning in Col. 2.
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men"
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
He warns against deceit and traditions of men. Then he says let no "MAN" judge you in your obedience to God. For these things are "shadows of things to come". God's Holy Days spell out His Salvation plan, of course Paul wants the Gentile believers to know them.
But are traditions of man, and rudiments of the world "Shadows of things to come"? Of course not.
But you seem to be preaching that it is a bad thing for the Gentiles not to let "MEN" judge them for following the same Path Jesus walked.
"Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels,"
And what reward awaits those who follow the rudiments of the world, and tradition of men?
The reason for this OP is to point out the difference between mainstream preaching and what the Chapter actually says.
[for me anyway] it is always the Holy Spirit of Truth speaking through them: also another scripture.. though as you pointed out there are many more.
"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby." (Ephesians 2:13-16)
"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby." (Ephesians 2:13-16)
=posthuman;3378804]
Exactly!! Jesus was accused, (Judged) my the mainstream preachers of His time, of sinning. But was Jesus sinning? No, he followed the same "Path" that Paul mentions in Col. 2. He didn't follow the traditions of man and the rudiments of the world that the Mainstream preachers of His time were pushing. "touch not, taste not". These, like every other thing man has ever created, will perish. But we know God's People will be following these Sabbaths long after we are dead as the Law and Prophets teach.
The things that are a shadow of God's Salvation plan, the things that there awaits a reward for doing, the things that we are not to let "men" judge us for doing are found in the Torah just like all God's Laws.
These Laws Jesus and Paul kept, are not Traditions of men, or rudiments of the World.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using
after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Where is the reward for doing these? What "shadow of things to come" are represented by these?
You are clumping God's Laws, and the Mainstream preachers traditions they called God's Laws together. Paul didn't do that here.
I might humbly suggest that the Holy Spirit is right on. That Paul knew exactly what he was teaching. I am not skipping the facts here. Just the opposite, I am considering the facts regardless of mainstream preaching.
Exactly!! Jesus was accused, (Judged) my the mainstream preachers of His time, of sinning. But was Jesus sinning? No, he followed the same "Path" that Paul mentions in Col. 2. He didn't follow the traditions of man and the rudiments of the world that the Mainstream preachers of His time were pushing. "touch not, taste not". These, like every other thing man has ever created, will perish. But we know God's People will be following these Sabbaths long after we are dead as the Law and Prophets teach.
The things that are a shadow of God's Salvation plan, the things that there awaits a reward for doing, the things that we are not to let "men" judge us for doing are found in the Torah just like all God's Laws.
These Laws Jesus and Paul kept, are not Traditions of men, or rudiments of the World.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using
after the commandments and doctrines of men?Where is the reward for doing these? What "shadow of things to come" are represented by these?
You are clumping God's Laws, and the Mainstream preachers traditions they called God's Laws together. Paul didn't do that here.
I might humbly suggest that the Holy Spirit is right on. That Paul knew exactly what he was teaching. I am not skipping the facts here. Just the opposite, I am considering the facts regardless of mainstream preaching.
there it is! i figured
same argument as the other threads on this verse ((i wonder what 'mainstream' really is, wouldn't know, i'm not mainstream)) -- hey, Paul is actually saying don't let anyone judge you for doing these things. dietary laws. ritual observance of days. Colossians 2 is actually an argument that we should all observe ordinances. true believers must eat kosher food, hold feasts for every new moon, and keep every sabbaths.
here's the problem i have with this view; that makes his argument something like
you were dead and condemned by the law, but by faith you have died to the principles of the world, and to the law, being crucified with Christ so that you may live in Him with all your transgressions forgiven. don't let anyone deceive you with hollow philosophies of living according to the tradition of mankind; you are forgiven and under no condemnation, having a righteousness not by the Law, which condemned you, but apart from the Law. this is your spiritual circumcision, His crucifixion, yours in Him, and the curse of the Law is removed from you by it.
therefore
don't let anyone judge you because you rigorously keep the Law. but just part of it, no, not the part Jesus said is the crux of it, another part, the marriage covenant of God and the nation Israel. in fact, obviously, keep the Law, especially you must keep the ritual observance of days, because obviously, you are no longer under the curse of the Law, so, you have to..
therefore
don't let anyone judge you because you rigorously keep the Law. but just part of it, no, not the part Jesus said is the crux of it, another part, the marriage covenant of God and the nation Israel. in fact, obviously, keep the Law, especially you must keep the ritual observance of days, because obviously, you are no longer under the curse of the Law, so, you have to..
considering what's before the "therefore" in v. 16 i just don't see how that interpretation should come after it.
i mean look, this is how Paul restates his argument
If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”
“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”
how does it make sense as a follow up to chide me for submitting myself to decrees like "do not handle, do not taste, do not touch" if he's telling us not to allow ourselves to be chided for keeping the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day sabbath ((for example, *cough*)), which the keeping of includes not handling money, not tasting leaven, not touching any burden?
E
Amen, If the “CURSE” was not nailed (the handwritten ordinances which are contrary to us and against us) then we are all pretty much doomed, as James said, just one sin, and I am guilty of the whole law. And what was th penalty? As Paul said CURSED is everyone who does not CONTINUE in th law in ALL THINGS AND DO THEM.
It is sad that people do not realise every sin they commit, no matter how small brings with it the death penalty. Think how many times we sin in one day, in one week, in one year, since we were born. How anyone can think they are righteous is beyond me, We are ALL on death row awaiting the carrying out of our sentence, Christ came to REDEEM us from that curse, having become a curse for us, that is our only hope.
=posthuman;3378817]i'd like to know how to reconcile what you are saying here with this:
So these did submit themselves to righteousness, it just wasn't God's righteousness. So could it be said they submitted themselves to the traditions of men? The Rudiments of the World?
What else is there.
They had a Law PH, you can not deny that. They had been preaching this Law for hundreds of years. God sent them Prophets to expose their error and they killed them, then He sent His Son and they killed Him. "We have a Law, and by OUR Law He should die". But these were man made traditions and their own righteousness, not the Laws and Righteousness of God.
Did Jesus walk in their Law or their righteousness, or the Laws of God and His Righteousness? The Laws of God of course. But the Jews had been influenced by this Mainstream preaching for so long the true teaching of the OT was foreign to them.
"What Law do we follow? The one Jesus walked, or the one the mainstream preachers called "the Law of Moses".
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
We need look no further. Jesus is the end, (intent, perfect example) of the Law for Righteousness.
But we have already broken them. The wages of sin is death. There is no law that can give life, only Jesus can do that.
He kept God's Laws, and He lived, just like the scriptures say.
But have you forgotten the first thing he said of them? They refused to "SUBMIT" themselves to God's Righteousness and created their own? How can you equate that to following "The Laws of Moses"?
you have "ADDED" the part about them trying to obey God because that is what modern mainstream preachers tell you.
Once again, The Jews were not following God's Laws. The Bible tells us the Jews were not trying to earn Salvation by keeping God's Laws. They had rejected His Righteousness and created their own. Their Law was "Traditions of men and Rudiments of the world". They had created their own which included their version of the Levitical Priesthood. It was their version because the entire Priesthood foretold of Christ, and when He came they didn't know Him. They still taught that it was necessary to follow their traditions and doctrines they called the "Laws of Moses" but Jesus clearly said, point blank.
Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
So much of your doctrine is built on the foundation that the Jews were trying to obey God. This is a false foundation. And everything else that is built on this foundation is faulty as well. This is one reason you don't understand Col. 2.
Paul's teaching and mainstream preaching are two completely different things.
i'd like to know how to reconcile what you say with this, also:
First, your interpretation of this scripture doesn't destroy the rest of the Bible.
If I am dead because I rebelled against God, I can SERVE no one now. The Letter of the Law says I'm dead. I must be released from this death in order to "Serve" anyone.
Jesus freed me from this death, now I can Serve HIM in the newness of His Spirit, not stay dead as the "Letter" says. The Law can not give life, only Jesus can. But wait, there is more.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Hardly against us as you preach.
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Death)
A dead flesh can longer direct our footsteps as it did before.
Rom. 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Now, being FREE from the death the letter of the Law places on me, I am free to "SERVE again. A second change to repent and "TURN to GOD".
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,(Dead in my sins) but under grace. (Freed from that death)
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
When he speaks of sin, then absolutely. Transgressing God's Commandments by our own man made doctrines and traditions is SIN. Rejecting God's Commandments and adhering to "Rudiments of the World and Tradition of men" is SIN. It was this lifestyle that caused our death in the first place. The Jews were not rejected because they followed God's Laws, they were rejected because they created their own.
It was these decrees and handwriting of ordinances that were against Paul and the Gentiles, not God's Commandments.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Where as Paul was warning about man's tradition in Col.2
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
You are making a mistake refusing to separate the two.
Paul teaches we are released from the Death transgression of the Law brings. He doesn't teach we are released from the definition of sin, or all of God's Instructions.
Mainstream preachers of our time teach God's Laws are gone to justify their man made doctrines and traditions, but Paul doesn't do that.
Once again, your religion preaches that God's Laws are gone in order to justify their own traditions. Paul is not advocating the elimination of God's Commandments, actually he is preaching just the opposite. If you were to consider the "Whole Bible" instead of just the few scriptures that can be twisted to support mainstream traditions you would see this as I do.
I asked several questions in the OP I posted regarding Col. 2.. I asked that you read it carefully. You have not read it carefully, and have ignored the questions I posed.
It seems you are more interested in defending your own lifestyle or religious traditions than you are having a discussion about Col. 2.
What else is there.
They had a Law PH, you can not deny that. They had been preaching this Law for hundreds of years. God sent them Prophets to expose their error and they killed them, then He sent His Son and they killed Him. "We have a Law, and by OUR Law He should die". But these were man made traditions and their own righteousness, not the Laws and Righteousness of God.
Did Jesus walk in their Law or their righteousness, or the Laws of God and His Righteousness? The Laws of God of course. But the Jews had been influenced by this Mainstream preaching for so long the true teaching of the OT was foreign to them.
"What Law do we follow? The one Jesus walked, or the one the mainstream preachers called "the Law of Moses".
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
We need look no further. Jesus is the end, (intent, perfect example) of the Law for Righteousness.
But we have already broken them. The wages of sin is death. There is no law that can give life, only Jesus can do that.
He kept God's Laws, and He lived, just like the scriptures say.
But have you forgotten the first thing he said of them? They refused to "SUBMIT" themselves to God's Righteousness and created their own? How can you equate that to following "The Laws of Moses"?
you have "ADDED" the part about them trying to obey God because that is what modern mainstream preachers tell you.
Once again, The Jews were not following God's Laws. The Bible tells us the Jews were not trying to earn Salvation by keeping God's Laws. They had rejected His Righteousness and created their own. Their Law was "Traditions of men and Rudiments of the world". They had created their own which included their version of the Levitical Priesthood. It was their version because the entire Priesthood foretold of Christ, and when He came they didn't know Him. They still taught that it was necessary to follow their traditions and doctrines they called the "Laws of Moses" but Jesus clearly said, point blank.
Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
So much of your doctrine is built on the foundation that the Jews were trying to obey God. This is a false foundation. And everything else that is built on this foundation is faulty as well. This is one reason you don't understand Col. 2.
Paul's teaching and mainstream preaching are two completely different things.
i'd like to know how to reconcile what you say with this, also:
First, your interpretation of this scripture doesn't destroy the rest of the Bible.
If I am dead because I rebelled against God, I can SERVE no one now. The Letter of the Law says I'm dead. I must be released from this death in order to "Serve" anyone.
Jesus freed me from this death, now I can Serve HIM in the newness of His Spirit, not stay dead as the "Letter" says. The Law can not give life, only Jesus can. But wait, there is more.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Hardly against us as you preach.
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Death)
A dead flesh can longer direct our footsteps as it did before.
Rom. 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Now, being FREE from the death the letter of the Law places on me, I am free to "SERVE again. A second change to repent and "TURN to GOD".
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,(Dead in my sins) but under grace. (Freed from that death)
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
When he speaks of sin, then absolutely. Transgressing God's Commandments by our own man made doctrines and traditions is SIN. Rejecting God's Commandments and adhering to "Rudiments of the World and Tradition of men" is SIN. It was this lifestyle that caused our death in the first place. The Jews were not rejected because they followed God's Laws, they were rejected because they created their own.
It was these decrees and handwriting of ordinances that were against Paul and the Gentiles, not God's Commandments.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Where as Paul was warning about man's tradition in Col.2
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
You are making a mistake refusing to separate the two.
Paul teaches we are released from the Death transgression of the Law brings. He doesn't teach we are released from the definition of sin, or all of God's Instructions.
Mainstream preachers of our time teach God's Laws are gone to justify their man made doctrines and traditions, but Paul doesn't do that.
Once again, your religion preaches that God's Laws are gone in order to justify their own traditions. Paul is not advocating the elimination of God's Commandments, actually he is preaching just the opposite. If you were to consider the "Whole Bible" instead of just the few scriptures that can be twisted to support mainstream traditions you would see this as I do.
I asked several questions in the OP I posted regarding Col. 2.. I asked that you read it carefully. You have not read it carefully, and have ignored the questions I posed.
It seems you are more interested in defending your own lifestyle or religious traditions than you are having a discussion about Col. 2.
Romans 10 doesn't destroy the rest of the Bible and Rom. 10 makes my point.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
So Paul is saying they DID NOT submit themselves to God Righteousness?
Yes, you and "MANY" others preach that the Jews were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws as Jesus did. This is a lie.
Paul taught that they were not keeping God's Commandments, that they had created their own image of God in likeness of men, that they didn't Glorify God as God. (Rom. 1)
Rom. 10:21 But to Israel(Jews) he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
I could go on and on about Jesus calling them "servants of satan", and what does satan do? It uses parts of God's word to trick man into disobeying God.
Paul teaches the Jews had created their own religion. Jesus said the Jews had created their own religion. I further their teaching, yet you and "many" others on this forum preach that the Jews were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws.
You also preach that Jesus nailed God's Laws which you preach "Are against us, are contrary to us" to the cross. Yet Paul preaches.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Ps. 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
How do you reconcile all this given what the Bible actually says.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
So Paul is saying they DID NOT submit themselves to God Righteousness?
Yes, you and "MANY" others preach that the Jews were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws as Jesus did. This is a lie.
Paul taught that they were not keeping God's Commandments, that they had created their own image of God in likeness of men, that they didn't Glorify God as God. (Rom. 1)
Rom. 10:21 But to Israel(Jews) he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
I could go on and on about Jesus calling them "servants of satan", and what does satan do? It uses parts of God's word to trick man into disobeying God.
Paul teaches the Jews had created their own religion. Jesus said the Jews had created their own religion. I further their teaching, yet you and "many" others on this forum preach that the Jews were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws.
You also preach that Jesus nailed God's Laws which you preach "Are against us, are contrary to us" to the cross. Yet Paul preaches.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Ps. 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
How do you reconcile all this given what the Bible actually says.
This is speaking to the same thing. What part of God's Laws kept Gentiles away from God?
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
The Pharisees were called the Circumcision. They were the ones telling the Gentiles for years that they couldn't come to God.
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
The Law and prophets never said this. The Jews had created their own laws and had taught this for centuries. God sent the Prophets and they killed them. He then sent them His Son, and they killed him as well. But because He was obedient to God and didn't follow the Jews "Traditions and doctrines" of men, death couldn't hold Him. He broke down that middle wall of patrician between Jew and Gentile that the Jews had created "even the law of commandments contained in ordinances", for to make in himself of twain (2) one new man, so making peace;
No more Jew and Gentile, but One Lord, One Law, One Faith as God taught through Moses.
Good post
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
The Pharisees were called the Circumcision. They were the ones telling the Gentiles for years that they couldn't come to God.
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
The Law and prophets never said this. The Jews had created their own laws and had taught this for centuries. God sent the Prophets and they killed them. He then sent them His Son, and they killed him as well. But because He was obedient to God and didn't follow the Jews "Traditions and doctrines" of men, death couldn't hold Him. He broke down that middle wall of patrician between Jew and Gentile that the Jews had created "even the law of commandments contained in ordinances", for to make in himself of twain (2) one new man, so making peace;
No more Jew and Gentile, but One Lord, One Law, One Faith as God taught through Moses.
Good post
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Just for the record. Creating an image of God in the likeness of a men's hair shampoo model, is not God's Righteousness, but mans.
Creating your own High Days and Sabbaths, while rejecting God's Words is your own righteousness , not God's Righteousness.
The Pharisees also created images of God after the likeness of man. They also created their own Sabbaths and high Days, and they also claimed "Faith" in the God of Abraham, just like the examples Jesus gave through His Spirit in Matt. 7:23.
You and mainstream Christianity have been tricked into believing you can do the exact same things they did, and escape their condemnation by your definition of faith.
For me, I "Believe" Jesus when He said "Take Heed" because "MANY" Christians were going to deceive "MANY". And what is the deception?
That we are to listen and obey God, and have faith that Jesus will cleanse us? Which the Bible teaches.
or do we follow the tradition soaked religious franchises that transgress God's Commandments by their own traditions and commandments of men, and teach others to do the same thing?
There is the choice.
Duet. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (Jesus) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
I choose the Jesus of the bible.
Creating your own High Days and Sabbaths, while rejecting God's Words is your own righteousness , not God's Righteousness.
The Pharisees also created images of God after the likeness of man. They also created their own Sabbaths and high Days, and they also claimed "Faith" in the God of Abraham, just like the examples Jesus gave through His Spirit in Matt. 7:23.
You and mainstream Christianity have been tricked into believing you can do the exact same things they did, and escape their condemnation by your definition of faith.
For me, I "Believe" Jesus when He said "Take Heed" because "MANY" Christians were going to deceive "MANY". And what is the deception?
That we are to listen and obey God, and have faith that Jesus will cleanse us? Which the Bible teaches.
or do we follow the tradition soaked religious franchises that transgress God's Commandments by their own traditions and commandments of men, and teach others to do the same thing?
There is the choice.
Duet. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (Jesus) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
I choose the Jesus of the bible.
Not when one considers the Context and Grammar my friend.
Colossians 2:13 Says, "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses."
Blotting out the handwriting to the Decrees that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" In being said in respect to us having all trespasses forgiven.
The clause "THE HANDWRITING TO THE DECREES" possesses the definite article "the". And it is also in the Dative case. Hence the word "to". So the grammar dictates it is the handwriting to the Decrees and not the Decrees themselves which were nailed to the Cross.
The context of the passage is in respect to forgiven trespasses. If our trespasses our forgiven there is no need for the handwriting to the Decrees which were against us.
The Decrees are the Ten Commandments. They were written by the finger of GOD and placed inside the Ark. The handwriting to the Decrees written by Moses were placed on the side of the Ark. They are which contained the Laws pertaining to the condemnation due to our trespasses and what we had to do in order to be cleansed of our sin and be forgiven. These are they which were against us.
And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
(Deu 31:24-26 KJV)
The Decrees are the Laws of GOD. They were not against us, the handwriting to them were; as Deut 31:26 witnessed. These are they which contained the judgements, sacrificial and ceremonial laws.
Since we have been forgiven of all trespasses there is no need for them, so they are nailed to the Cross. Jesus stripped the principal offices and the positions of authority as verse 25 states., so there is no more need for the Levitical Priesthood. Through the handwriting to the Decrees we were condemned; but Jesus Triumphed over the handwriting to the Decrees by obeying the Decrees . He was in all points tempted as we, yet without sin. He therefore stripped the principle offices and positions of authority (vs. 25) which were of the handwriting to the Decrees. Took them away nailing them to the Cross. No more Levitical Priesthood because there is no need for a sacrifice, because the body of sin has been cut off. We have been circumcised by the circumcision made without hands and quickened together with Him; having forgiven us all trespasses. Therefore let not any judge you in food, or in drink, or in turn of festival, or of the new moon, or of Sabbaths. Which were of the handwriting to the Decrees not the Decrees themselves. Which is a shadow of the coming; but the body is of Christ.
So as we have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, For (because) in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead (divinity) bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: For we are Partakers of HIS divine nature. Circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, to the sins being separated, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes we were healed.
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. That the righteousness of the LAW be fulfilled (to the uttermost) in us. Who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
(Col 2:6-13,16 17;Heb 4:15;1Pe 2:24)
The Context and Grammar is quite clear. The handwriting to the Decrees is what was nailed to the Cross not the Decrees.
The 7th Day Sabbath is of the Decrees not of the handwriting to the Decrees. So Sabbaths in verse 16 must be those to which were contained in the handwriting to the Decrees.
Colossians 2:13 Says, "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses."
"Having forgiven us all trespasses" is the subject to which Colossians 2:14 answers to. in. It says, "
Blotting out the handwriting to the Decrees that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" In being said in respect to us having all trespasses forgiven.
The clause "THE HANDWRITING TO THE DECREES" possesses the definite article "the". And it is also in the Dative case. Hence the word "to". So the grammar dictates it is the handwriting to the Decrees and not the Decrees themselves which were nailed to the Cross.
The context of the passage is in respect to forgiven trespasses. If our trespasses our forgiven there is no need for the handwriting to the Decrees which were against us.
The Decrees are the Ten Commandments. They were written by the finger of GOD and placed inside the Ark. The handwriting to the Decrees written by Moses were placed on the side of the Ark. They are which contained the Laws pertaining to the condemnation due to our trespasses and what we had to do in order to be cleansed of our sin and be forgiven. These are they which were against us.
And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
(Deu 31:24-26 KJV)
At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
(Deu 10:1-2 KJV)
(Deu 10:1-2 KJV)
The Decrees are the Laws of GOD. They were not against us, the handwriting to them were; as Deut 31:26 witnessed. These are they which contained the judgements, sacrificial and ceremonial laws.
Since we have been forgiven of all trespasses there is no need for them, so they are nailed to the Cross. Jesus stripped the principal offices and the positions of authority as verse 25 states., so there is no more need for the Levitical Priesthood. Through the handwriting to the Decrees we were condemned; but Jesus Triumphed over the handwriting to the Decrees by obeying the Decrees . He was in all points tempted as we, yet without sin. He therefore stripped the principle offices and positions of authority (vs. 25) which were of the handwriting to the Decrees. Took them away nailing them to the Cross. No more Levitical Priesthood because there is no need for a sacrifice, because the body of sin has been cut off. We have been circumcised by the circumcision made without hands and quickened together with Him; having forgiven us all trespasses. Therefore let not any judge you in food, or in drink, or in turn of festival, or of the new moon, or of Sabbaths. Which were of the handwriting to the Decrees not the Decrees themselves. Which is a shadow of the coming; but the body is of Christ.
So as we have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, For (because) in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead (divinity) bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: For we are Partakers of HIS divine nature. Circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, to the sins being separated, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes we were healed.
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. That the righteousness of the LAW be fulfilled (to the uttermost) in us. Who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
(Col 2:6-13,16 17;Heb 4:15;1Pe 2:24)
The Context and Grammar is quite clear. The handwriting to the Decrees is what was nailed to the Cross not the Decrees.
The 7th Day Sabbath is of the Decrees not of the handwriting to the Decrees. So Sabbaths in verse 16 must be those to which were contained in the handwriting to the Decrees.
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I would agree. We look to the things not seen the eternal not the things seen the temporal.
The letter of the law as that seen(scripture) represents the temporal .
In the new heavens and earth which could be compared to the Ark as the former things will not be remembered .The written law would of perished having served it purpose..
Remembering it’s not what goes into a man as that seen that does defile them like what you offered below . That on the side (the letter of the law) witnesses to the outcome of what is inside the Ark . So we could say the spiritual understanding (gospel) . Or called the law of faith coming from the hidden manna(parables)
The Decrees are the Ten Commandments. They were written by the finger of GOD and placed inside the Ark. The handwriting to the Decrees written by Moses were placed on the side of the Ark. They are which contained the Laws pertaining to the condemnation due to our trespasses and what we had to do in order to be cleansed of our sin and be forgiven. These are they which were against us.
The letter of the law as that seen(scripture) represents the temporal .
In the new heavens and earth which could be compared to the Ark as the former things will not be remembered .The written law would of perished having served it purpose..
Remembering it’s not what goes into a man as that seen that does defile them like what you offered below . That on the side (the letter of the law) witnesses to the outcome of what is inside the Ark . So we could say the spiritual understanding (gospel) . Or called the law of faith coming from the hidden manna(parables)
The Decrees are the Ten Commandments. They were written by the finger of GOD and placed inside the Ark. The handwriting to the Decrees written by Moses were placed on the side of the Ark. They are which contained the Laws pertaining to the condemnation due to our trespasses and what we had to do in order to be cleansed of our sin and be forgiven. These are they which were against us.
Using the KISS method.
1. The law is still in effect. Jesus said until heaven and earth disappear the law remains in effect.
2. Without the law there are no sins. Sin is transgression of the law.
3. Jesus sacrifice takes away the penalty of our sins.
4. Those who don't accept Jesus will be judged by the law.
Where am I wrong?
1. The law is still in effect. Jesus said until heaven and earth disappear the law remains in effect.
2. Without the law there are no sins. Sin is transgression of the law.
3. Jesus sacrifice takes away the penalty of our sins.
4. Those who don't accept Jesus will be judged by the law.
Where am I wrong?