What Is Romans 9 About?

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Depleted

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That doesn't mean God has faith. Do you think God has fear? Ro 3:18
What do you think faith is with God? An emotion? A reaction to something else? What do you think faith is that man so easily has it, and God does not?

(And, why did you suddenly jump to Romans 3, since you've just gone through several posts proclaiming we have to stick to Romans 9? Seriously? Is this a game with you?)
 
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Its not logic after the rudiments of this world as to what the eyes see, not after the oral tradition as the philosophies of men but after his law of faith. We don't know Christ after the logic of men but do know Him after the Logos. His law is perfect converting our soul gives us simply one His understanding.


What's Garee imports?
No idea! I just took out a little from his overall statement, because that's what he keeps wanting us to do. lol
 
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Depleted

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BTW, Oldhermit, this is why I didn't want to "study" with you. You don't "study with." You post what you want and leave it as if that's all there is to say, so your work is done.

And what did you post? Your eisegete of Romans 9 to disprove unconditional election.

When your prove-a-point comes down to proving your point, rather than understanding what God would have us understand, the point already becomes disproven before you begin.

On the other hand, despite the question asked that started this thread, no one wanted to study Romans 9 at all. They wanted to prove-a-point. So, viola! This too comes down to what usually happens on a forum supposedly set aside to discuss the Bible. Just another argument that means nothing. A new way to twirl hair in boredom.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Originally Posted by DevotiontoBible

That doesn't mean God has faith. Do you think God has fear? Ro 3:18
Of course he has fear he is subject to his own laws of his own soul .Its why we can fear him aright according to his promises not subject to change..

If he would take into account one wrong suffered who could stand before his throne of grace and receives mercy? We fear him because with him we have forgiveness. His mercy and love hems us in keeping the enemy of our new souls out. He is our city of refuge prepared as His bride the church.

Ok, what if some say God has no faith as a work that works in the believer to both will and do His good pleasure. ?.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.


God defines faith according to his own... not of the imaginations of the hearts of the creature.

Will that no faith as a forward nation of unconverted men make the faith of God without effect. To effect is to work?

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.Rom 3:3
 
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1ofthem

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Mar 30, 2016
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Dude please go away. If you have some PROOF. Or you want to DISCUSS points in the word or counter arguments people make in certain passages, that people are trying to discuss. Then feel free, and by all means join the conversation.

But your simplistic, strawman attacks against anyone who disagrees with you is childish. You want to act like a kid who does not ghet their way and has to belittle others to make yourself look good. (Which is embarrassing and gives God and his people a bad name I may add) Then pleases, go do it someplace else,

Again, Your argument about censuring God could be used against yourself. Thus it is a non responsive remark. Which does nothing but puff yourself up.
I started to reply to him on this, but he says he has me on ignore…He doesn’t like the fact that I have called him out a few times on his attitude toward others.

I have never agreed with how he treats others, but now, though, I cannot take anything he says seriously.

He is saying others are censoring God and making him out to be what they want him to be. Yet, he is throwing up a few verses that he thinks makes God to be what he wants him to be, and then he is not even willing to discuss those verses. All he is doing is throwing up a smoke screen and deflecting by blame shifting, name calling, etc.

So until, he is willing to discuss scripture openly, I cannot take one word he says as serious. I am reading what everyone else is saying, though, because at least they appear to be trying to discuss the scripture.
 
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You can't get that from my comment. You have to be on some hallucinogenic to see me saying that God shows mercy only to the righteous.

Well if the born again believer has been given the mercy of God that works in them to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness not of their own-selves .He makes us who were dead in their trespasses and sin righteous. Do not wonder by using your own imagination. We must be born again. Being born again is the wonderful source of His faith working in us. By it we can believe Him not seen.

Where do those who hope they will be found with a righteousness according to some fleshly work they can do . Where does that kind of no faith come from other than the imagination of their own heart that are desperately wicked and beyond repair as in who could know it? One day it excuses the next minute it accuses. Some call it no conscience. The jail is full of them who have a no faith in respect to their own selves.They were trusting their hearts as a source of faith Is not God not seen greater than our hearts as the sum of things we could know of the spiritual unseen matters? ?
 
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What do you think faith is with God? An emotion? A reaction to something else? What do you think faith is that man so easily has it, and God does not?

(And, why did you suddenly jump to Romans 3, since you've just gone through several posts proclaiming we have to stick to Romans 9? Seriously? Is this a game with you?)
Because he was quoting and misinterpreting Ro 3:3.
 
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I know the idea to this thread was to prove something-something about Israel and something-something-else about the rest, but I so love all of Romans. I love how Paul wraps it up with who are God's people. (Supposedly all of us, but we know that's not true.) So, I'm going to post the beautiful way Charles Spurgeon puts it.

“And so all Israel shall be saved.”
Rom. 11:26

Then Moses sang at the Red Sea, it was his joy to know that all Israel were safe. Not a drop of spray fell from that solid wall until the last of God’s Israel had safely planted his foot on the other side the flood. That done, immediately the floods dissolved into their proper place again, but not till then. Part of that song was, “Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed.” In the last time, when the elect shall sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and of the Lamb, it shall be the boast of Jesus, “Of all whom thou hast given me, I have lost none.” In heaven there shall not be a vacant throne.
“For all the chosen race
Shall meet around the throne,
Shall bless the conduct of his grace,
And make his glories known.”
As many as God hath chosen, as many as Christ hath redeemed, as many as the Spirit hath called, as many as believe in Jesus, shall safely cross the dividing sea. We are not all safely landed yet:
“Part of the host have crossed the flood,
And part are crossing now.”
The vanguard of the army has already reached the shore. We are marching through the depths; we are at this day following hard after our Leader into the heart of the sea. Let us be of good cheer: the rear-guard shall soon be where the vanguard already is; the last of the chosen ones shall soon have crossed the sea, and then shall be heard the song of triumph, when all are secure. But oh! if one were absent-oh! if one of his chosen family should be cast away-it would make an everlasting discord in the song of the redeemed, and cut the strings of the harps of paradise, so that music could never be extorted from them.
 
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Depleted

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I started to reply to him on this, but he says he has me on ignore…He doesn’t like the fact that I have called him out a few times on his attitude toward others.

I have never agreed with how he treats others, but now, though, I cannot take anything he says seriously.

He is saying others are censoring God and making him out to be what they want him to be. Yet, he is throwing up a few verses that he thinks makes God to be what he wants him to be, and then he is not even willing to discuss those verses. All he is doing is throwing up a smoke screen and deflecting by blame shifting, name calling, etc.

So until, he is willing to discuss scripture openly, I cannot take one word he says as serious. I am reading what everyone else is saying, though, because at least they appear to be trying to discuss the scripture.
I agree with you. His attitude does stink. BUT what is different between his attitude and EG's attitude? Seems the same to me.

Why is one right to you, but not the other?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I agree with you. His attitude does stink. BUT what is different between his attitude and EG's attitude? Seems the same to me.

Why is one right to you, but not the other?
Ah, I wanted to respond here, and not necessarily to Depleted (meaning below) whose opinion I will respect, but will and do wholly disagree with. :)

1) For the record, as I've been accused by the person you've addressed above, I've never once stated that EG has censored God.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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Well if the born again believer has been given the mercy of God that works in them to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness not of their own-selves .He makes us who were dead in their trespasses and sin righteous. Do not wonder by using your own imagination. We must be born again. Being born again is the wonderful source of His faith working in us. By it we can believe Him not seen.

Where do those who hope they will be found with a righteousness according to some fleshly work they can do . Where does that kind of no faith come from other than the imagination of their own heart that are desperately wicked and beyond repair as in who could know it? One day it excuses the next minute it accuses. Some call it no conscience. The jail is full of them who have a no faith in respect to their own selves.They were trusting their hearts as a source of faith Is not God not seen greater than our hearts as the sum of things we could know of the spiritual unseen matters? ?
Wrong. Faith is the source of being born again (Hab 2:4) not the other way around. You Calvinists have it backwards.
 
Dec 4, 2017
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Reading Ro 9 starting at v1 through v33 it says Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ not by works of the law as the Jews believe. That is THE main idea Paul was getting across. It is in no way about God predestinating only certain individuals to eternal life.
Amen
A favorite example of mine is the account of a man whose faith was well placed and firm in good soil.



As Yeshua entered K’far-Nachum, a Roman army officer came up and pleaded for help. 6 “Sir, my orderly is lying at home paralyzed and suffering terribly!” 7 Yeshua said, “I will go and heal him.” 8 But the officer answered, “Sir, I am unfit to have you come into my home. Rather, if you will only give the command, my orderly will recover. 9 For I too am a man under authority. I have soldiers under me, and I say to this one, ‘Go!’ and he goes; to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes; to my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.” 10 On hearing this Yeshua was amazed and said to the people following him, “Yes! I tell you, I have not found anyone in Isra’el with such trust! 11 Moreover, I tell you that many will come from the east and from the west to take their places at the feast in the Kingdom of Heaven with Avraham, Yitz’chak and Ya‘akov.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I guess when Jesus died on the cross, He ONLY died for those who had faith in him, right?

Wonder how many folks had faith in Jesus when God sent Him to be the Perfect Sacrifice to establish His Salvation Plan?

dis dude is a troll.............in my opinion
Father forgive them for they know not what they do” comes to mind.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Actually, it's about God's sovereign choice. And, given the whole letter was written to Romans, not Israelites, I would think it's important to understand God's sovereign choice, considering we're neither Romans nor Israelites.

Yep. Gods soverign choice in Choosing Isreal as a nation. And how he did not make a mistake. Thats why he spent three chapters (9-11) on this point.

I think it is important to understand God keeps his promises. If he can not keep his promise to a nation he called by his name, how can we4 have faiht he will keep his promise to us?

it was very important fort Paul to let the romans, and us know. God keeps his promises. No matter what, Not only is he soverign, but he is faithfull.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What does it say to you? Is it really that hard that you cannot teach us Romans 9 in your own words? You're the one who knows it quite well.

I take it you did not go to the link. How do you expect to learn what I think if you do not go to the link.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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I agree with you. His attitude does stink. BUT what is different between his attitude and EG's attitude? Seems the same to me.

Why is one right to you, but not the other?
I probably shouldn't have even made that post and thought about deleting shortly after I did, but it was over the 5 minutes time period.

We all can have moments and let our attitude get out of hand, but most will apologize when they do that. You know as well as I do that I can get out of hand at times too. However, when I do, I do try to apologize for it.

Now I can only speak for myself and my own opinion here, but I don't ever see that with preacher4.

And I know it ain't really my business, but I can't stand to see someone trying to push others around...Why not at least try to discuss it with the word of God, and not just some arrogant drama???
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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But the story of Lot has nothing to do with what Romans 9 is about. You are violating the hermeneutical principle of reading in circles of literary context. Lot has nothing to do with being a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Nor does he have anything to do with Pharaoh. God has mercy on who He elects, and who does He elect to show mercy? Only on those who have faith in Jesus Christ. It is really quite simple.
i wasn't arguing election. i was pursuing whether If God elects that in and of itself makes Christ unnecessary.

Lot seems ((to me)) relevant to that question because Lot was chosen to be saved out of Sodom - and it's arguable he was even removed from it almost against his will - but it was apparently necessary for him to be removed, that election notwithstanding. i was drawing a parallel between Lot as a figure of the church and his being spared from the destruction of Sodom as a figure of salvation. Lots 'election' didn't negate the necessity of his removal, and i saw his removal as the mechanism of his being spared, which is like in figure to the cross, our being removed from the world and placed in the Spirit by our crucifixion with Him, our baptism into Him.

i may be wrong in the analogy and meaning, sure, but i didn't think it wrong to look at scripture and try to infer the truth from it by seeing Christ in one place and comparing it with how Chris also revealed in another place. Even in Romans 9 isn't Paul using examples from scripture to make His points?
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Ah, I wanted to respond here, and not necessarily to Depleted (meaning below) whose opinion I will respect, but will and do wholly disagree with. :)

1) For the record, as I've been accused by the person you've addressed above, I've never once stated that EG has censored God.
Reread what I posted and show me where I said that...I said you say "others censor God" nowhere did I say you said EG.

So I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings, or made you feel wronged:)
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Reread what I posted and show me where I said that...I said you say "others censor God" nowhere did I say you said EG.

So I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings, or made you feel wronged:)
I never stated anyone censors God.