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I agree that we should strengthen our brother but only GOD can give desire.
R
That is what Jesus said.
“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away."-Luke 8:13
"when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away."-Matthew 13:21
“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away."-Luke 8:13
"when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away."-Matthew 13:21
E
One does not need to know your friends to know if they were saved or not. They just need to know scripture.
If they are truly atheists, they deny Jesus is the christ.
According to john, IUf they were a part of a churhc, they were never [part of the church, and the fact they left reveals the truth that they were never part of the church.
We need to be careful about undermining the deity of our God and claiming he would make such a sad mistake he would save people he KNEW would later pope lay deny him.
If they are truly atheists, they deny Jesus is the christ.
According to john, IUf they were a part of a churhc, they were never [part of the church, and the fact they left reveals the truth that they were never part of the church.
We need to be careful about undermining the deity of our God and claiming he would make such a sad mistake he would save people he KNEW would later pope lay deny him.
I actually think there is only 1 reason why.......... they tried to enter into a relationship with God according to their "flesh," thus, NOT born again of the Spirit.
The flesh doesn't want to go to hell, it wants to have it's own way, it's full of pride and thinks it needs to tell God what to do - this is the flesh/carnal christian that leaves and departs from faith in Jesus Christ because they NEVER get what they want.
The flesh doesn't want to go to hell, it wants to have it's own way, it's full of pride and thinks it needs to tell God what to do - this is the flesh/carnal christian that leaves and departs from faith in Jesus Christ because they NEVER get what they want.
Luke 8:13 - But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest."
Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation.
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." *Problem from the start. *Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil.
*Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. *This does not represent saving belief.
Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation.
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." *Problem from the start. *Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil.
*Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. *This does not represent saving belief.
R
Your Calvinistic 'P' perseverance of the saints doctrine is dying out quickly in the church. The new belief in the church is this person with the second type of soil who stops believing is still saved.
Jesus said they believe for a while then stop. This thread is about the 'why'. And he gives the reason why. Since they aren't strong in the Lord yet, they get uprooted by the bad stuff that comes with believing in Christ.
I have found from talking to people that what makes a person strong in Christ and unable to be shaken is how much they understand and value the forgiveness of sin they have received. The more they love and appreciate God's forgiveness the harder it is to wrest it from their hearts. Their roots go down deep.
“Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD
And whose trust is the LORD. 8“For he will be like a tree planted by the water,
That extends its roots by a stream
And will not fear when the heat comes;
But its leaves will be green,
And it will not be anxious in a year of drought
Nor cease to yield fruit."-Jeremiah 17:7-8
Jesus said they believe for a while then stop. This thread is about the 'why'. And he gives the reason why. Since they aren't strong in the Lord yet, they get uprooted by the bad stuff that comes with believing in Christ.
I have found from talking to people that what makes a person strong in Christ and unable to be shaken is how much they understand and value the forgiveness of sin they have received. The more they love and appreciate God's forgiveness the harder it is to wrest it from their hearts. Their roots go down deep.
“Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD
And whose trust is the LORD. 8“For he will be like a tree planted by the water,
That extends its roots by a stream
And will not fear when the heat comes;
But its leaves will be green,
And it will not be anxious in a year of drought
Nor cease to yield fruit."-Jeremiah 17:7-8
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You can list as many reasons as you would like. If people choose to reject God, or alienate themselves from Him, that is their choice. They can use any reason they like and through mutual support believe they are somehow justified.
If someone turns away from God due to the behavior, teachings, or explanations from men, then they never had a meaningful relationship with Him in the first place.
The liberal and material attitude of the day seems to be that when someone doesn't do the things you think they should do, or do them when and how any individual thinks they should do them, they are rejected because the person rejecting them knows better.
You follow God for yourself, not because of or for others.
I'd recommend reading the book of Job for perspective....and then justify yourself after reading chapters 38-42. (I say this in answer to the question, not as a personal challenge to you specifically.
If someone turns away from God due to the behavior, teachings, or explanations from men, then they never had a meaningful relationship with Him in the first place.
The liberal and material attitude of the day seems to be that when someone doesn't do the things you think they should do, or do them when and how any individual thinks they should do them, they are rejected because the person rejecting them knows better.
You follow God for yourself, not because of or for others.
I'd recommend reading the book of Job for perspective....and then justify yourself after reading chapters 38-42. (I say this in answer to the question, not as a personal challenge to you specifically.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:160, “The sum of Your word is truth, And all Your righteous right-rulings are forever.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 1:9, “What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 6:16, “Thus said YHWH, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves. But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Judges 21:25, "In those days there was no sovereign in Yisra’yl – everyone did what was right in his own eyes." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 18:15, “But My people have forgotten Me, they have burned incense to what is false, and they have stumbled from their ways, from the ancient paths, to walk in bypaths and not on a highway.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 1:9, “What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 6:16, “Thus said YHWH, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves. But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Judges 21:25, "In those days there was no sovereign in Yisra’yl – everyone did what was right in his own eyes." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 18:15, “But My people have forgotten Me, they have burned incense to what is false, and they have stumbled from their ways, from the ancient paths, to walk in bypaths and not on a highway.”[/FONT]
Hi Dan,
How true that is!
But just so we understand what's going on....... the one who responded and fell away, he thinks he's saved and he's among us within the body of Christ. There are many like this who are still in fellowship with believers.
And on his part, he's lost something. He's lost something he had. It's a free gift and he responded, but he didn't continue on this kingdom journey in faith. So even though on God's part who sees our heart and knows those who are truly His, on the part of the one who responded, he is losing something. It was right there, he knew the truth, he tasted of the riches of God's grace, but he allowed the cares of the world to draw him back.
If he had continued on the kingdom journey, his faith would have been genuine, but the fact that he fell away proves it wasn't.
How true that is!
But just so we understand what's going on....... the one who responded and fell away, he thinks he's saved and he's among us within the body of Christ. There are many like this who are still in fellowship with believers.
And on his part, he's lost something. He's lost something he had. It's a free gift and he responded, but he didn't continue on this kingdom journey in faith. So even though on God's part who sees our heart and knows those who are truly His, on the part of the one who responded, he is losing something. It was right there, he knew the truth, he tasted of the riches of God's grace, but he allowed the cares of the world to draw him back.
If he had continued on the kingdom journey, his faith would have been genuine, but the fact that he fell away proves it wasn't.
What does the behavior of another person have to do with you?
I've seen translation issues, but no outright contradictions. You really have to bend over backwards to use isolated textual errors to invalidate the entire collection of books.
Hell is a fundamental aspect of understanding salvation and Christ's sacrifice. If you were not aware of God's impending judgment, then you simply were not a Christian in the first place.
I'm not sure if I get this one. Do they become Christian expecting God to perform miracles all the time?
Another fundamental part of Christianity which I cannot fathom how you would overlook before joining the faith.
I've seen translation issues, but no outright contradictions. You really have to bend over backwards to use isolated textual errors to invalidate the entire collection of books.
Hell is a fundamental aspect of understanding salvation and Christ's sacrifice. If you were not aware of God's impending judgment, then you simply were not a Christian in the first place.
I'm not sure if I get this one. Do they become Christian expecting God to perform miracles all the time?
Another fundamental part of Christianity which I cannot fathom how you would overlook before joining the faith.
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