what the word "grace" will never alter.
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Hinestly my own belief is simple, I believe that God sent Jesus Christ when all men had fallen short of " deserving" eternal Life, to offer it to anyone who will believe HIS OFFER of salvation acording to what Jesus Christ said before He laid down His life, to remit our sins who are baptized into Him, and seal forever the Gospel as the testament. I just believe what Jesus said, and then i believe the rest along with it and nothing is forced to be ommited then.
I can say with all my Heart and soul, I thank God through Jesus Christ My Lord, that He poured out His power and Love, His grace and His truth to man to give us the power to be His children of we would only believe His word.
as far as " osas" my own belief is aligned with pauls belief regarding judgement. eternal Judgement, was paid for by the suffering, the blood, the agony, by Jesus being spit on, whipped, beated by both priests and roman soldiers, and then held up and nailed to the cross. those things to me, are very personal Jesus did that for me he endired all He endired for me personally. and what is even far better is He did it for you personally because you believe, and my family and yours and all our Loved ones. His motivation was personally directed to us. we needed a Hero and a teacher, an example and a Savior, ans God sent Jesus.
He has the right to Judge not me, for a young christian, even my own self 20 years ago, all i really saw in the bible that i could grasp and retain was " Jesus died for my sins" Jesus is my savior" Jesus is well able to lift me up, Jesus Loves me this I know . I Hinestly even at my worst ever felt Like i was going to be Lost if Jesus had returned before i got it worked out or anything. I think that the gospel should offer a person who accepts the Words of Jesus plenty of security, and it also guards against any error because it is Grace and truth.together. " i forgive you, now go and Leave your sinful life"
if someone believes they will for sure be saved, i cant say they arent, because it has to be between Jesus who is the Only Judge of such matters and the personal Believer He gave His Life for. i Know for at Least My own Life the prisce was very High, He suffered alot on my behalf and when i took it to Heart, it turned me against sin and began breaking chains and changing me into someone i dont have to be ashamed of my deeds anymore evenm with the Knowledge God is present with me always even in the dark. i do not believe that comes by saying " Grace dont do anything your saved" but by pressing forward and learning from Jesus as He taught us to do.
im not real good at labels of doctrines and denominations and thier seperate beliefs and everything. i just believe what My Hero had to say to His disciples because thats what I believe we all should be. even when were rough and rugged around the edges Like most of us are. God Makes diamonds out of Lumps of coal, shapes masterpeices from broken vessels. God can take a person broken in a hundred peices ifthey will accept Jesus, and put them together again to be something truly special. its almost a rewuirement to fall before God, and give up our stubborn will and pride and be willing to change our thinking to meet His not easy but the gospel is the measure we need to take in and believe unto salvation.
a side note " free grace" a " free gift" to me really neglects the price that was paid for salvation. we were bought at a price and it was high, i think we should take Jesus sacrifice as the most expensive gift ever offered and treat it that way. instead of a " free gift" like we get in the mail from a promo company and toss in the drawer. eternal Life is a pretty awesome Promise.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and Paul said if they do not have love they are nothing,and erred from the faith,and James said their faith is dead,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
Lack in love then faith does not apply in your life.
Love is the fulfilling of the law,and love is greater than faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Faith works by love,so love must come first before faith applies in their life.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
We are saved by grace through faith,so we must have faith before grace can apply.
So we must have love before faith can apply,so grace can apply.
Which Paul calls it charity,which is love in action,and John said do not love in word only,but in deed and in truth.
So love is something we have to strive for to have faith,and we have to have works of love before faith can apply,so we can have grace.
Which the Bible warns against lacking love,and having works of love,for without love then there is no grace,for love is greater than faith.
And we see the lack of love among many who claim Christ all the while they will argue they are right with God.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Love does not think an evil thought,does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth,abstains from sin by the Spirit,is not selfish,not arrogant,not unkind,does not behave itself improper,and goes by their needs,and not wants,and helps the poor and needy.
If a person does not measure up to love then they have no faith,and then they have no grace.
But we see the lack of love among them and then they say they are alright with God.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Which Jesus pointed out that some have left their first love,and have fallen,and for them to repent,or He will remove their candlestick out of its place.
People that hold unto sin,not love.
People who belittle people,not love.
People who go by their wants that is not a necessity while people need help,not love.
People who puff themselves up against other people,not love.
There are many people who lack love and say they are right with God,and you cannot argue with them as they say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,and the prosperity Gospel,but with those beliefs many of them will lack love and there is no doubt about that for their belief system will cause it,all the while they say they are chosen,and elect,but how can the chosen,and elect,have such a belief system that causes many people to not have love like they should.
They even go so far as to say they do not have to obey Christ,but the Bible says bring all thoughts to the obedience of Christ that you can avenge all disobedience,when you're obedience is fulfilled.
These people want to hear it so much that they were chosen in the beginning and cannot fall that nothing can hinder their salvation,and they know they hold unto sin for we see their hypocrisy,so they have to justify it where sin does not affect their relationship with God.
The Bible says God wants all people to be saved,and many are called but few chosen,but it does not register with them,for all they see is they were chosen in the beginning,and cannot fall,and do not understand what the Bible is saying.
Charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and Paul said if they do not have love they are nothing,and erred from the faith,and James said their faith is dead,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
Lack in love then faith does not apply in your life.
Love is the fulfilling of the law,and love is greater than faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Faith works by love,so love must come first before faith applies in their life.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
We are saved by grace through faith,so we must have faith before grace can apply.
So we must have love before faith can apply,so grace can apply.
Which Paul calls it charity,which is love in action,and John said do not love in word only,but in deed and in truth.
So love is something we have to strive for to have faith,and we have to have works of love before faith can apply,so we can have grace.
Which the Bible warns against lacking love,and having works of love,for without love then there is no grace,for love is greater than faith.
And we see the lack of love among many who claim Christ all the while they will argue they are right with God.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Love does not think an evil thought,does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth,abstains from sin by the Spirit,is not selfish,not arrogant,not unkind,does not behave itself improper,and goes by their needs,and not wants,and helps the poor and needy.
If a person does not measure up to love then they have no faith,and then they have no grace.
But we see the lack of love among them and then they say they are alright with God.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Which Jesus pointed out that some have left their first love,and have fallen,and for them to repent,or He will remove their candlestick out of its place.
People that hold unto sin,not love.
People who belittle people,not love.
People who go by their wants that is not a necessity while people need help,not love.
People who puff themselves up against other people,not love.
There are many people who lack love and say they are right with God,and you cannot argue with them as they say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,and the prosperity Gospel,but with those beliefs many of them will lack love and there is no doubt about that for their belief system will cause it,all the while they say they are chosen,and elect,but how can the chosen,and elect,have such a belief system that causes many people to not have love like they should.
They even go so far as to say they do not have to obey Christ,but the Bible says bring all thoughts to the obedience of Christ that you can avenge all disobedience,when you're obedience is fulfilled.
These people want to hear it so much that they were chosen in the beginning and cannot fall that nothing can hinder their salvation,and they know they hold unto sin for we see their hypocrisy,so they have to justify it where sin does not affect their relationship with God.
The Bible says God wants all people to be saved,and many are called but few chosen,but it does not register with them,for all they see is they were chosen in the beginning,and cannot fall,and do not understand what the Bible is saying.
Hinestly i think that true Love comes first from faith into us, and then is expressed through Love. "Faith expressing itself through Love"
the reason we Love Gods way, is because of the way He Loved us. if we first believe that He Loved us to the end of Loves reach, we then have the reason to accept and Learn His word. faith Has to be the first thing, Has to be, im not saying its the Last thing left, because thats Love. faith Leads to perfect Love is what Im saying. and Love abides in the commandments according to Gods word. this makes repentance necassary because transgressing the Law, is not Love. if i lie to you, i cant also say im loving you, if im stealing from you, i cant also say i love you.....
Love fulfills the law because it does no wrong to its neighbor. " Love thy neighbor" is a brief summary to show us the purpose of the Law. " do not lie...to each other. do not kill...each other...do not steal from...each other...do not commit adultery against each other.....do not bear false witness against thy neigbor...ect in other words " do no wrong to your neighbor and that fulfils the law. Love is an action.
when you see a man hurt on the side of the road, or a homeless man catches your eye. there is something that moves a person to act on the needy persons behalf. thats the greatest Love the sacrificial Love of Christ. and it comes because of what Jesus did for us, thats where Loves seeds are planted in our Hearts, and then the word comes along and plants a whole garden and gives Light and water.
the gospel remember is about redemption of those of us who understand " im just not good enough to do all thats rewuired to be seen right in Gods eyes. therefore salvation shines forth, in the awareness that we have to have a savior, this should send us to Him and keep our faith in Him because no one else died for us. we have to learn and were not accountable for what we truly dont understand.
the reason we Love Gods way, is because of the way He Loved us. if we first believe that He Loved us to the end of Loves reach, we then have the reason to accept and Learn His word. faith Has to be the first thing, Has to be, im not saying its the Last thing left, because thats Love. faith Leads to perfect Love is what Im saying. and Love abides in the commandments according to Gods word. this makes repentance necassary because transgressing the Law, is not Love. if i lie to you, i cant also say im loving you, if im stealing from you, i cant also say i love you.....
Love fulfills the law because it does no wrong to its neighbor. " Love thy neighbor" is a brief summary to show us the purpose of the Law. " do not lie...to each other. do not kill...each other...do not steal from...each other...do not commit adultery against each other.....do not bear false witness against thy neigbor...ect in other words " do no wrong to your neighbor and that fulfils the law. Love is an action.
when you see a man hurt on the side of the road, or a homeless man catches your eye. there is something that moves a person to act on the needy persons behalf. thats the greatest Love the sacrificial Love of Christ. and it comes because of what Jesus did for us, thats where Loves seeds are planted in our Hearts, and then the word comes along and plants a whole garden and gives Light and water.
the gospel remember is about redemption of those of us who understand " im just not good enough to do all thats rewuired to be seen right in Gods eyes. therefore salvation shines forth, in the awareness that we have to have a savior, this should send us to Him and keep our faith in Him because no one else died for us. we have to learn and were not accountable for what we truly dont understand.
yea bro i been here for over 2 years now, im not trying to gather a crowd, Just sharing some things that one or two might find useful. and even when theres disagreement here, ive learned over time things sink in even if we dont at first " agree" i think ultimately those drawn to a bible discussion forum are searching in thier own way to Know what the Bible says.
sharing scripture and discussing is a good way to learn, here u just gotta be unwilling to be easily offended and willing to discuss with few people, because as you say the overwhelming popularity is "the omission by grace revoloution" but really its been that way since the early church in scripture. heck even back to the law and prophets there were false prophets and corrupt priests teaching fallacy. it all goes back to mans first lesson in eden " always believe what God said, over the explaination of why He is wrong" its crazy but i think the hardest thing to accept for many christians is still the truth of Gods word.....
in eden it was " you must not eat this deadly fruit or you will surely die"
at horeb it was " if you will walk in my statutes and ordinances and commands, if you will keep the law as holy and sacred people, I will dwell among you.
at the prophets its " you have defiled and broken my covnenat, now my wrath is kindled, BUT i will send the messiah with the new covenant, you must listen to Him, He will set the eternal Law in the earth"
then Jesus is saying " repent for the Kingdom of God is at Hand."
man is created, we choose the lie and follow sin and then comes death. man is destroyed. man is preserved through Noah man is given a promise for all people of the earth in abraham, man is given the law of moses to condemn us and bring us to a sentance of death, Jesus then comes offering forgiveness and calling sinners to repentance"
adam Lost the right to the tree of Life, Jesus offers it again. all of life is to hear and obey the Lord, its that simple, yet is the hardest thing to believe still even though we have the record of what happened in eden and why we are here needing salvation. because we listened to the guy explaining how Gods word really isnt Gods word, its not true, not for you, you will not die pshh....silly"
anything He can do He will always do to get man to disbelieve His word even though He has spoken clearly in Chjrist and it echoes to the ends of the universe as Gods Only salvation
sharing scripture and discussing is a good way to learn, here u just gotta be unwilling to be easily offended and willing to discuss with few people, because as you say the overwhelming popularity is "the omission by grace revoloution" but really its been that way since the early church in scripture. heck even back to the law and prophets there were false prophets and corrupt priests teaching fallacy. it all goes back to mans first lesson in eden " always believe what God said, over the explaination of why He is wrong" its crazy but i think the hardest thing to accept for many christians is still the truth of Gods word.....
in eden it was " you must not eat this deadly fruit or you will surely die"
at horeb it was " if you will walk in my statutes and ordinances and commands, if you will keep the law as holy and sacred people, I will dwell among you.
at the prophets its " you have defiled and broken my covnenat, now my wrath is kindled, BUT i will send the messiah with the new covenant, you must listen to Him, He will set the eternal Law in the earth"
then Jesus is saying " repent for the Kingdom of God is at Hand."
man is created, we choose the lie and follow sin and then comes death. man is destroyed. man is preserved through Noah man is given a promise for all people of the earth in abraham, man is given the law of moses to condemn us and bring us to a sentance of death, Jesus then comes offering forgiveness and calling sinners to repentance"
adam Lost the right to the tree of Life, Jesus offers it again. all of life is to hear and obey the Lord, its that simple, yet is the hardest thing to believe still even though we have the record of what happened in eden and why we are here needing salvation. because we listened to the guy explaining how Gods word really isnt Gods word, its not true, not for you, you will not die pshh....silly"
anything He can do He will always do to get man to disbelieve His word even though He has spoken clearly in Chjrist and it echoes to the ends of the universe as Gods Only salvation
Once saved always saved
Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. It a pomise & a guard the soon Christ will come for us)
Eph 1:13 salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were "sealed" with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: As soon as one believes. God seals them with a promise, His Holy Spirit).
Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest/pledge. That God's us has made us. Soon Christ will redeem what he purchased on the cross)
2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's deposit & guards us until the final day of redemption. When our corruptible bodies are changed to the incorruptible)
2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a pledge)
2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a pledge & a SEAL until the soon coming day of our redemption)
Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a seal.
2 Tim 1:14 Refer's to the Holy Spirit as a guard & deposit.
2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Pledge/down payment.
1 John 5:13 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(NOTE: John writes: that you may know ""PRESENT TENSE"" that you have eternal life)
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(NOTE: God doesn't go back on His Word)
More help:
Salvation is spoken of as a finished transaction, described with "past tense" verbs. (Jn 1:12, Eph. 1:13)
When a person places thier faith in the redemptive sin atoning Death (sins wage paid), Burial & resurrection (God's receipt, payment received) of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Their salvation is final and complete. Salvation is not a process, it is an event. Christ described salvation as a birth because it is an instantaneous transforming event. You can't be UNBORN!!!!
15 Verifiable Hebrew & Greek to English translators agree here: Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words:
Topic Salvation: (Strong's #4991 — Noun Feminine — soteria — so-tay-ree'-ah )
(b) """eternal deliverance granted immediately"""
by God to those who accept His conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, in whom alone it is to be obtained, upon confession of Him as Lord, Rom. 10:10; for this purpose the gospel is the saving instrument, Rom. 1:16; Eph. 1:13
Topic: Save, Saving: (Strong's #4982 — Verb — sozo — sode'-zo )
(b) of the spiritual & """eternal salvation granted immediately""" by God to those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, e.g., RV "(those that) were being saved;" 16:31; Rom. 8:24, RV, "were we saved;" Eph. 2:5,8: 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5; of human agency in this, Rom. 11:14; 1 Cor. 7:16; 9:22;
Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. It a pomise & a guard the soon Christ will come for us)
Eph 1:13 salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were "sealed" with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: As soon as one believes. God seals them with a promise, His Holy Spirit).
Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest/pledge. That God's us has made us. Soon Christ will redeem what he purchased on the cross)
2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's deposit & guards us until the final day of redemption. When our corruptible bodies are changed to the incorruptible)
2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a pledge)
2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a pledge & a SEAL until the soon coming day of our redemption)
Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a seal.
2 Tim 1:14 Refer's to the Holy Spirit as a guard & deposit.
2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Pledge/down payment.
1 John 5:13 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(NOTE: John writes: that you may know ""PRESENT TENSE"" that you have eternal life)
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(NOTE: God doesn't go back on His Word)
More help:
Salvation is spoken of as a finished transaction, described with "past tense" verbs. (Jn 1:12, Eph. 1:13)
When a person places thier faith in the redemptive sin atoning Death (sins wage paid), Burial & resurrection (God's receipt, payment received) of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Their salvation is final and complete. Salvation is not a process, it is an event. Christ described salvation as a birth because it is an instantaneous transforming event. You can't be UNBORN!!!!
15 Verifiable Hebrew & Greek to English translators agree here: Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words:
Topic Salvation: (Strong's #4991 — Noun Feminine — soteria — so-tay-ree'-ah )
(b) """eternal deliverance granted immediately"""
by God to those who accept His conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, in whom alone it is to be obtained, upon confession of Him as Lord, Rom. 10:10; for this purpose the gospel is the saving instrument, Rom. 1:16; Eph. 1:13
Topic: Save, Saving: (Strong's #4982 — Verb — sozo — sode'-zo )
(b) of the spiritual & """eternal salvation granted immediately""" by God to those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, e.g., RV "(those that) were being saved;" 16:31; Rom. 8:24, RV, "were we saved;" Eph. 2:5,8: 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5; of human agency in this, Rom. 11:14; 1 Cor. 7:16; 9:22;
Apparently, you don't like to Hear the truth in post #2, but it's still the truth. BTY in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said "reward" each according to his works, not save each based on the merits of his works.
*Also see 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, notice work endures, receive a reward, works burned, suffer loss of reward, but he shall be saved.
Ephesians 2:10 says created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works, right after verses 8 and 9 clearly say SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, NOT WORKS.
*Also see 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, notice work endures, receive a reward, works burned, suffer loss of reward, but he shall be saved.
Ephesians 2:10 says created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works, right after verses 8 and 9 clearly say SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, NOT WORKS.
The battle is between differing angles at approaching scripture. I accept scripture as written, I do not add or take away but accept as written the Word of God. I do not see the need to "harmonize" scripture to any faith alone sensibilities.
You see scripture through your often stated "rightly understood" filter. Your sensibilities insist that only faith can be part of the plan of salvation, any other verse no matter how clear, must be "harmonized" to fit your faith alone regeneration theology. You present 3 verses and proclaim in bold letters IN CHRIST ALONE yet fail to see that the very word "alone" is not even part of the verses themselves. Your "rightly understood" is nothing more than a subtle way of saying esoteric knowledge.
You see scripture through your often stated "rightly understood" filter. Your sensibilities insist that only faith can be part of the plan of salvation, any other verse no matter how clear, must be "harmonized" to fit your faith alone regeneration theology. You present 3 verses and proclaim in bold letters IN CHRIST ALONE yet fail to see that the very word "alone" is not even part of the verses themselves. Your "rightly understood" is nothing more than a subtle way of saying esoteric knowledge.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 7:9-11, “Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, vow falsely, burn incense to Baal, follow hinder gods you know nothing of, And then come and stand before Me in this House upon which My Name is called, and say; We are saved! Saved to do all these abominations? Has this House, which is called with My Name, become a den of thieves in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen this! says YHWH.”[/FONT]
a slogan doesnt erase the content and meaning of something. you have defined grace your own way, not in the context of the bible is the issue, no one in this thread or really that i have ever seen Here teaches any such thing as " salvation by works" others are simply wise enough to understand Gods word is what offers Grace, and its a foolish thing to take a sentance out of an entire epistle and then shaped How everything else means nothing in the interpretation.
the gog has elevated Grace above the Words of the Lord, its a shame that paul gets the blame for such fallacy, His epistles certainly do not support the grace people teach according to the gog. Jesus taught repentance, Paul taught repentance. Jesus taught you are forgiven By Me because I have the authority to do so. Jesus taught, Now Go and leave your life of sin> Jesus taught " those who keep my word, will never see death" its foolishness when you are coming from the angle that opposes Jesus words. He is the One who offers salvation not a doctrine from the 21st century all about why He has no say in salvation, just his suffering counts. terrible position the gog puts you in. when your argument is that Jesus Christ, is teaching a false doctrine. its best to sometimes, see what it is you are so set against in the name of "Grace" it doesnt change the rest of what is there, thats what you guys are insisting, obviously you have missed it, or why then does paul explain grace for 3 chapters and then explain very clearly in the same epistles everything you now are to do? and teaching " we will all face Jesus for what we have done wther good or bad"?
when grace is interpreted that it erases the rest of scripture its terribly erroneous. is Jesus a false teacher because He taught this ?
matthew 6 " For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
Jesus clearly makes a condition based on whether we forgive or not. He teaches this in parables, in other straight forward teachings. clearly. if you forgive, your Father in Heaven, will forgive you. if you do not forgive others, youe Heavenly Father will not forgive you"
How can you insist the Son of God, the One annointed for the purpose of preaching the gospel to set people free, to open blinded eyes, to preach salvation. the One who is the authority over all the church according to paul who so many seem to think is the head of the church. paul who say those who will not consent to Jesus words Know nothing"
how do you hold the positions you hold friend? some of you should petition cc for a gog forum it would stop alot of arguing in the bdf.
Paul understood His doctrine , thats why He always taught rrpentance, Judgement, accountability, obedience. He warned, rebuked, corrected, taught. One thing He never taught is that Grace omits the rest of the chapters and verses in His letters. otherwise he was a pretty mixed up individual preaching conditionless guaranteed salvation the moment you say " Lord Lord" and then teaching " you will surely reap what you sow, those who sow to the spirit will reap eternal Life. again, based on whether we sow. but those who sow to the flesh, will surely reap corruption"
eternal Life v corruption based on whether we sow to spirit or flesh.
its not wise to take a chapter and then argue against the rest of the same epistle. or really any scripture it doesnt oppose or omit the rest, grace doesnt define the bible Jesus does.