Post on Denominations
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That scripture is not making Gentile Christians children of Abraham. Yes we are receiving the blessing that is for the Jew first but we have not replaced them in Gods plan.
God will deal with the children of Abraham in the end time. It is upon Israel that the tribulation will fall.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God will deal with the children of Abraham in the end time. It is upon Israel that the tribulation will fall.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
There's a story I heard many years ago that I oft plagiarize about denominations. Goes something like this:
One day Jesus is walking down the street and a group of people bring a blind man to Him seeking healing. Jesus spits on the ground, makes a little mud, puts some in the blind man’s eyes, and tells his friends to take him down to the river and wash it out. They and the crowd do just that, and when the man washes he is healed and can see. So off this group goes, preaching that one must ‘receive spit in the eye and wash at the river’.
Another day, Jesus comes across another blind man seeking healing. Jesus tells the man to go to the temple and pay his alms. The man and the crowd around him do so, and he is healed and can see. So off this group goes, preaching that one must ‘give their alms’.
On still another occasion, a blind man is brought to Jesus wanting to be healed. Jesus asks the man if he believes He can do it, the man says yes, and he is healed. So off this group goes, preaching one must have ‘faith and belief’.
So now we have these three 'denominations' going at each other, insisting you can only be healed by ‘spit and washing’, or only by ‘alms and giving’, or only by ‘faith and belief’ - each ‘denomination’ insisting that it is exclusive of the others. But in debating about the how, they totally lose sight that there are many ways Jesus restores us, and that they are not exclusive of each other. They all have one thing in common: They all sought out Jesus.
None of us has the whole picture... but we all have a piece of the jigsaw puzzle. Instead of trying to force-feed our piece of the puzzle upon others, we should pay attention to the picture formed by all of the puzzle pieces around us. Because even with as much as we think we know, today is not the day to stop learning from each other.
One day Jesus is walking down the street and a group of people bring a blind man to Him seeking healing. Jesus spits on the ground, makes a little mud, puts some in the blind man’s eyes, and tells his friends to take him down to the river and wash it out. They and the crowd do just that, and when the man washes he is healed and can see. So off this group goes, preaching that one must ‘receive spit in the eye and wash at the river’.
Another day, Jesus comes across another blind man seeking healing. Jesus tells the man to go to the temple and pay his alms. The man and the crowd around him do so, and he is healed and can see. So off this group goes, preaching that one must ‘give their alms’.
On still another occasion, a blind man is brought to Jesus wanting to be healed. Jesus asks the man if he believes He can do it, the man says yes, and he is healed. So off this group goes, preaching one must have ‘faith and belief’.
So now we have these three 'denominations' going at each other, insisting you can only be healed by ‘spit and washing’, or only by ‘alms and giving’, or only by ‘faith and belief’ - each ‘denomination’ insisting that it is exclusive of the others. But in debating about the how, they totally lose sight that there are many ways Jesus restores us, and that they are not exclusive of each other. They all have one thing in common: They all sought out Jesus.
None of us has the whole picture... but we all have a piece of the jigsaw puzzle. Instead of trying to force-feed our piece of the puzzle upon others, we should pay attention to the picture formed by all of the puzzle pieces around us. Because even with as much as we think we know, today is not the day to stop learning from each other.
How did you get to this subject of being a Jew or not? It seems you brought your agenda to my op.
Why don't you read in the New Testament what Paul has to say in Romans about who is atrue Jew and who is not. I doubt you will understand if you have read already and it has gone over your head.
Here is a hint, Jew is from the Hebrew word for Judah, and it means praiser of Yahw or praiser of god.
You have said it, you cannot be a true Jew........We are of that other flock brought togethe with the Good Shepherd's original flock. This probably tells you even less. I am sorry. Perhaps if you meditat on this and study the Word you will come to understanding by the Holy Spirit, this thewa we all elarn.
Why don't you read in the New Testament what Paul has to say in Romans about who is atrue Jew and who is not. I doubt you will understand if you have read already and it has gone over your head.
Here is a hint, Jew is from the Hebrew word for Judah, and it means praiser of Yahw or praiser of god.
You have said it, you cannot be a true Jew........We are of that other flock brought togethe with the Good Shepherd's original flock. This probably tells you even less. I am sorry. Perhaps if you meditat on this and study the Word you will come to understanding by the Holy Spirit, this thewa we all elarn.
The post below was pasted in what I thought was Bible discussion. I am pasting it here in order to share with as many as possible. God bless all amen...
Re: Presbyterian/Baptist War
Most are going to disagree with this pronouncement on denominations, and this is normal for most in this age.
No named denomination will concur with another simply by virtue of the fact they need to name themselves in order to distinguish them from other named denominations.
This is why I hear Jesus on the matter always, whom I also like to call Yeshua..
We are become children of Abrahan, and our faith is the faith of Abraham. This is not a denomination unless someone comes along and makes one up calling it by this reality, not a title.
Now if you keep in mind Abraham means "Honored Father of Peoples (nations)" you may possibly understand this teaching more profoundly.........
Those who disagree will disagree while those who understand will know.
All blessing in Jesus Christ, amen.
No named denomination will concur with another simply by virtue of the fact they need to name themselves in order to distinguish them from other named denominations.
This is why I hear Jesus on the matter always, whom I also like to call Yeshua..
We are become children of Abrahan, and our faith is the faith of Abraham. This is not a denomination unless someone comes along and makes one up calling it by this reality, not a title.
Now if you keep in mind Abraham means "Honored Father of Peoples (nations)" you may possibly understand this teaching more profoundly.........
Those who disagree will disagree while those who understand will know.
All blessing in Jesus Christ, amen.
1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
And so it is today.I am of the Pope,and I of John Calvin,and I of Martin Luther,and I of Joseph Smith,and I of Alice Bailey,and I of Ellen White,and I of Charles Russell,and I of this person,and I of that person.
Abraham is the father of many nations,for he was the one called that started the whole thing of Israel and salvation.
Contrary to what some people believe the Church does not replace Israel,for Israel is the Church.
God said in the Old Testament that Israel shall not cease as a nation.
God said that when Israel as a nation rebels against God,which would be by way of them following false gods,and false religious ways,that anytime they cry out to God in the truth,even in the latter days,which would be now,He will hear from heaven,and work with them as He did in the past.
Paul said God has not cast away His people He once foreknew,and they are blinded in part until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles,and so all Israel shall be saved.
I am the LORD,I change not,therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed.
God said He would make a covenant with Israel that is an everlasting covenant,which both Old and New covenants were given to Israel.
The disciples asked Jesus if He would restore the kingdom on earth to them at that time,and He said the Father will do it in His own time,but be concerned with preaching the Gospel.
God said after Israel has borne their shame for their sins and iniquities against Him,which would be by way of Israel as a nation not accepting Jesus then He will bring the whole house of Israel out of the nations,and will not leave them in the nations anymore,and He will not hide His face from them again,and they will know the LORD their God from that point and forward.
This will happen when the man of sin,New Age Christ,establishes peace in the Middle East,and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel,and the Jews and the Gentiles will be separated,for he wants them all in one place to deceive them and go against them,but God has it for the good of the Jews to restore the kingdom to them,and Israel is protected for the 7 years period that God is causing all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when they do the fulness of the Gentiles will be come in,and God will then turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,which the world will then attack the Christians for three and one half years,while the Jews are coming to the truth,and then those that remain will be gathered unto Christ,and then they will attack Jerusalem,the Jews,and then Jesus will come back with His saints and defeat the world,and save Israel,for all Israel shall be saved,and the kingdom restored to Israel,which God said He will make a full end of all Gentile nations,their operating governments,but not make a full end of Israel,though they will not be wholly unpunished.
Jesus said salvation is of the Jews,and when a Gentile is saved they become a Jew inward,and part of the commonwealth of Israel.
It is always about Israel,and God said He never rejected them as being a nation,or His people,but they went through trouble because of their rejection of Christ as a nation,for the nation must turn to Jesus,but God always brings Israel to the truth when she went astray,and He will do it again,and restore the kingdom to them and be like the old days when no enemy could prosper against them when they abided in the truth,but this time it will be better for there is no war for Israel is always the on top,and there will be peace at that time.
Abraham is the father of many nations,for it is all about Israel,from the time of Abraham all the way to the New Jerusalem,which the 12 tribes of Israel,and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are written in the New Jerusalem.
Abraham called by God that led to Jacob,Israel,and the nation of Israel,Old Testament given to them,New Testament given to them,the kingdom on earth is to always be their kingdom,the only operating kingdom in the millennial reign of Christ,and the New Jerusalem given to them.
If people think the Church replaces Israel,then why when a Gentile gets saved they become a Jew inward,and part of the commonwealth of Israel,and Jesus said salvation is of the Jews.
They say the Church replaces Israel,but when they are saved they are part of the commonwealth of Israel.
Why would they part of the commonwealth of Israel if the Church replaces Israel.
That is because it is always about Israel for God called them,and always will be with them,for it is Israel all the way.
God did not cast off His people because Israel as a nation did not accept Christ,for He will correct them and restore them as He always does,and God said He always has Jews that follow Him in the truth,as in the case of when Israel was following Baal,but God said He has 7000 Jews that would not bow down the knee to Baal,and so it is today.
God gave the Old Testament to Israel and they had no choice but to comply with it,and God said He winked at the ways of the Gentiles,which they will be judged by their belief in a higher power who loves people,for He provided food,and the means to make clothing,and shelter,and covers the two greatest commandments love God,and love people,which is the universal law,and the 2 greatest commandments of the Bible,which all the prophets and law hang on those 2 laws,and judged by their conscience.
Creation testifies of the 2 greatest commandments so they are without excuse.
The New Testament is given to Israel,but God now commands all people of the world to repent,and accept the New Testament,and they have no choice but to comply with it.
But when they are saved they are part of the commonwealth of Israel,not part of a Church that replaces Israel,or is above Israel,or has no part with Israel.
Everybody should be looking at Israel as their homeland,and Jerusalem as its capital where God placed His name.
Forget the nation you were born in for it is Israel that is your home,and we are strangers passing through the land seeking a better home,one that God provided for us.
Jamie j has asked me not to derail his threads , so, I say this, and no more- in the thread " Paul exposes false applications of the Law, in post # 32, nov. 1o 2017, Jamie J stated- " it does matter what Paul had to say, if Jesus has taught us all we need to know on the subject".
this is what started this dispute between him and I. personally, I think when you have someone saying it is not necessary to read over half the N.T., I think that is big deal. and wrong.
I will say no more on this thread, I just want to let folks know what I am talking about.
this is what started this dispute between him and I. personally, I think when you have someone saying it is not necessary to read over half the N.T., I think that is big deal. and wrong.
I will say no more on this thread, I just want to let folks know what I am talking about.
The reson this is cut and pasted in MY op here is because I had posted it in the other one thinking I was in the Bible discussion area.
When I realized I was not, I pasted my post here. That title is the title of someone elses' post on the Pres. and the Baptists..
Perhaps if you find it, you can ask them.
When I realized I was not, I pasted my post here. That title is the title of someone elses' post on the Pres. and the Baptists..
Perhaps if you find it, you can ask them.
You brought it in with your children of Abraham notation. Now being Jewish is an ethnicity. Your view is all fluff.
Christians do not adopt the religion of Judah. Christians do not be come ethnically Jewish. Christians do receive the blessings promised to Israel which they rejected in Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Christians do not adopt the religion of Judah. Christians do not be come ethnically Jewish. Christians do receive the blessings promised to Israel which they rejected in Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Amen or at least not outwardly. If that was the case we would need the womb of a Jew to be born again .
Christ said rather those who hear the word of God.
And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.Luk 11:27
Christ said rather those who hear the word of God.
And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.Luk 11:27
The post below was pasted in what I thought was Bible discussion. I am pasting it here in order to share with as many as possible. God bless all amen...
Re: Presbyterian/Baptist War
Most are going to disagree with this pronouncement on denominations, and this is normal for most in this age.
No named denomination will concur with another simply by virtue of the fact they need to name themselves in order to distinguish them from other named denominations.
This is why I hear Jesus on the matter always, whom I also like to call Yeshua..
We are become children of Abrahan, and our faith is the faith of Abraham. This is not a denomination unless someone comes along and makes one up calling it by this reality, not a title.
Now if you keep in mind Abraham means "Honored Father of Peoples (nations)" you may possibly understand this teaching more profoundly.........
Those who disagree will disagree while those who understand will know.
All blessing in Jesus Christ, amen.
No named denomination will concur with another simply by virtue of the fact they need to name themselves in order to distinguish them from other named denominations.
This is why I hear Jesus on the matter always, whom I also like to call Yeshua..
We are become children of Abrahan, and our faith is the faith of Abraham. This is not a denomination unless someone comes along and makes one up calling it by this reality, not a title.
Now if you keep in mind Abraham means "Honored Father of Peoples (nations)" you may possibly understand this teaching more profoundly.........
Those who disagree will disagree while those who understand will know.
All blessing in Jesus Christ, amen.
I would offer that Christ came to bring division and establish as unseen a union by grace.We do not wrestle against the things seen.
Non-denominational is a denomination/sect as a part of the whole. God typified as Abraham is considered the God or father of many nations, as denominations/sects. Abraham is the literal father of one nation.
No such thing as no separation in thought between even one man with another .Our thoughts are not His thoughts and neither our our ways, his . If a person is married they get it. Or one sects thoughts with another.
That idealism is reserved for the father and Son alone.He is are of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases .it is he who makes our hearts softer.
We all have our differences as fingerprints. Seeing it is God who does make us different from one another there is no self-made/created men, when it comes to new creatures.
We walk by faith, the unseen eternal. The kingdom of God is not of this world, again we walk (understand) by the unseen eternal as we are informed in 2 Corinthian 4:18 .
He is the power that binds men to do His will as His Spirit works in us..
In reality when two or three gather together under the authority of his living word he is there. Two or three constitutes a sect with Christ as the head. .A family that gathers together in the authority or power of the gospel that each member has in these earthen bodies (not of them) differs in their opinion from a family next door. They both can be considered a sect.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
From my experiences Catholicism has done much damage because they change the meaning of words to take away the authority of scripture.
They would say they are not a sect and call every denomination but their own heretics. the same with the phrase private interpretation .They say every other sect other than their own has one, as heresy, as a opinion .Taking away the authority when two or three, or two million and three million men gather together.
The word denomination or sect is derived from the word heresy which is simply an opinion or private interpretation as a personal commentary on what each individual thinks the Holy Spirit is revealing as they do seek after His approval .
In that way Christ informs us there must be heresies as differences of opinion among us
Strongs lexicon. 139 hairesis {hah'-ee-res-is}
from 138; TDNT - 1:180,27; n f
AV - sect 5, heresy 4; 9
1) act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city 2) choosing, choice 3) that which is chosen 4) a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party) 4a) of the Sadducees 4b) of the Pharisees 4c) of the Christians 5) dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims
1Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
The heresies that are damnable or judge-able in respect to the gospel that we are to be careful of ...flat out deny the fullness of the grace of Christ, The Catholics are noted for that offering that Christ only gives a unknown "remnant of grace" with the remaining remnant under the idea of personal suffering for a unknown amount of time ,or severity in a unknown place called Purgatory. It make the grace of Christ without effect by doing despite to the Spirit of grace.
2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
