10 Reasons Sin Confession Is Questionable!!!

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't understand your logic. We have forgiveness in Christ, but we must seek this forgiveness? Where do you find this example in the OT (sacrificial system) as a shadow for what is found in Christ? Was not the sacrifice itself sufficient, for sin? Sin being imputed and righteousness being imputed, penalty being paid and reconciliation being made? Where do you find this concept of seeking forgiveness from God after remission has been granted?

There were two types of sacrifices for sin: personal sin offerings and national sin offerings. Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient for both, but they were handled differently.

Sin offerings were made by individuals for their personal sins every day of the year except the day of atonement. In these cases the individual did everything except apply the blood of the sacrifice to the horns of the altar: he confessed his own sin over the sacrifice and slew it.

One sin offering was made by the high priest for the entire nation's sins on the day of atonement. In these cases the high priest did everything: he confessed Israel's sins over the sacrifice , slew it and cleansed the temple with it's blood.

Your doctrine only considers the latter type of sin offering.

 

[Jimbone]

Hey Jimbone. To start with, when you read sin confession please understand that I am referring to sin confession for the sake of forgiveness (meaning an active pursuit of what is already provided by God for Christ's sake). I am not against sin confession as a means of transparency before our Father, and as an avenue of sanctification (by seeking deliverance, one admits to falling short and asks for help in resolving such issues).

You ask why is this topic important, and if we truly consider it, grasping the total forgiveness of sins that we have through Christ gives us peace. It enlightens us, if you will, to our reconciliation to God and how we may now have fellowship with Him (unhindered). It also brings out of us a heart of gratitude, and humility. We go to God, as our Father who's desire is to lead us into holiness and righteousness and not condemn us. As God's word says, perfect love keeps no record of wrongs, and it casts out fear. He remembers our sins no more, He doesn't hold them against us as if we must seek forgiveness or else. We don't go to the Lord out of fear of eternal damnation, for we are secure in Christ as our High Priest.

It is God's goodness that leads us to repentance.

In summary, addressing this doctrine, sin confession for forgiveness, upholds all that Christ accomplished (reconciliation to the Father, the forgiveness of all sin, no condemnation in Christ Jesus, eternal security, etc). It also rids people of condemnation that puts them through a whirlwind of emotions, of being in and out of Christ, saved and then condemned. It gives them peace with God. It glorifies God, the Father and Jesus Christ. Basically, it gets them out of this mentality of self-righteousness that they must be perfect, and instead gives them rest in Christ (that leads to sanctification, righteousness, and holiness).

Okay, I understand what you mean, and to be honest I agree 100%. Confession "for forgiveness" is completely wrong. I understand and couldn't agree more.

I also agree that we are not condemned at all, and 1000% we serve our unbelievably and indescribable GREAT God in total gratitude, because we WANT to, because He changed our hearts and caused us to desire Him. It’s not out of "fear" or "because I keep law" AT ALL. We also agree here.

I also really agree with your last points as well. I thank you for taking the time to answer me directly, and I understand your position better now and where you're coming from. I do have to say though this was not at all the impression I got from your OP, and I also have to say I got the complete opposite impression because of the way we communicate here all the time. It happen in this very thread with joaniemarie and I. The whole thing starts off under false presupposed opinions on what the other believes. I like that here I asked you directly exactly what you meant and believed, you laid it out, and I actually agree and was under a false impression of what you were saying and why.

I do however have to tell you I do not understand the angle you take to make these points, like I said before I would have never concluded that this is what you believed by the way you presented it. It does not come across to me like “you don’t have to confess for salvation”, it comes across more like “don’t confess” to me. I’m sure the history here and how we are always arguing back and forth against straw men has a lot to do with that too. I want to come together more, I want to listen more, try to understand more, never compromise and always seek truth, but be more compassionate towards my brothers, neighbors, and enemies. I have really started to realize and have my eyes open to the fact that I don’t believe the exact same way or things that I did when I was first reborn. It is a walk and God is sanctifying and molding me as I grow in Him. I think I can be too critical of others beliefs, get sucked into a battle of scarecrows, and completely ignore trying to come together as one body way too often. Of course there are things you have to profess to be a Christian, things you cannot be saved without knowing, but I see too much assertion over inquiry in my honest opinion, and am 100% guilty myself of this very thing.

LOL, but thank you BenFTW for answering me and I do honestly agree with what you said here, the only outside perspective I offer is that from my point of view you are not making clear the points you laid out here, the focus on, and the way you present it here, sometimes to me, comes off completely opposite from some perspectives. I have to also say that I have never had the impression that you don’t love our God, King, and Savior Jesus Christ, and in His name I pray He draw us all closer into Himself and to each other to proclaim His glory to all nations. Thanks again brother and have a great day.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Confess does not mean ask frgiveness. It means to state, acknowledge admit you have done something. Like when we confess our sins to others, do you go and just tell your friends you have sinned, or do hou confess them, hiw do you expect them to help you if you do not tell them what it is.


Your losing credability here.

let me just respond the same way you responded to Nehemiah

yeah

whatever dude

I don't confess my sins to others. The Bible does not tell us we need to confess to others. Jesus said if we offended someone..if there is something between us and someone else, we need to get that straightened out

but who pays attention to that, eh? some here might and I don't know if you do, but some here teach that we no longer pay attention to what Jesus said

I hope you are not of that persuasion

 

[FlyingDove]

You've got to be kidding. Confess but do not ask for forgiveness? That would be the height of absurdity.

KJV Dictionary Definition: FORGIV'EN, Pardoned remitted.

Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words

(Strong's #863 — Verb — aphiemi — af-ee'-ay-mee )

(b) sins, e.g., Matthew 9:2,5,6 ; 12:31,32 ; Acts 8:22 ("the thought of thine heart"); Romans 4:7 ; James 5:15 ; 1 John 1:9 ; 2:12 . In this latter respect the verb, like its corresponding noun (below), firstly signifies the remission of the punishment due to sinful conduct, the deliverance of the sinner from the penalty Divinely, and therefore righteously, imposed; secondly, it involves the complete removal of the cause of offense; such remission is based upon the vicarious and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ.

(Strong's #5483 — Verb — charizomai — khar-id'-zom-ahee )

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Col 3:13 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

"to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness," whether Divine, Ephesians 4:32 ; Colossians 2:13 ; 3:13

Posted above King James Bible Dictionary say's: FORGIV'EN = Believer's sins ""Pardoned"" (PAST TENSE) remitted.

Posted above Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words say's the meaning of forgiven in Rom 4:7, Eph 4:32 & Col 2:13: signifies the remission of the punishment due to sinful conduct, the deliverance of the sinner from the penalty Divinely, and therefore righteously, imposed; secondly, it involves the complete removal of the cause of offense; such remission is based upon the vicarious and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ.

Posted above Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words say's the meaning of forgiven in Col 2:13 & James 5:15: to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness

King James say's believers sins are PARDONED. Vines say's the believers sin forgivness is UNCONDITIONAL.

When a believer is showed via the indwelling Holy Spirit that: They've missed the mark/sinned, they need not gravel or beg for forgivness.

They should praise & thank God for the forgivness ALREADY provided/given freely through thier faith in Christ's finished redemptive work. Then turn from thier failure and move forward.

 

[BenFTW]

Okay, I understand what you mean, and to be honest I agree 100%. Confession "for forgiveness" is completely wrong. I understand and couldn't agree more.

I also agree that we are not condemned at all, and 1000% we serve our unbelievably and indescribable GREAT God in total gratitude, because we WANT to, because He changed our hearts and caused us to desire Him. It’s not out of "fear" or "because I keep law" AT ALL. We also agree here.

I also really agree with your last points as well. I thank you for taking the time to answer me directly, and I understand your position better now and where you're coming from. I do have to say though this was not at all the impression I got from your OP, and I also have to say I got the complete opposite impression because of the way we communicate here all the time. It happen in this very thread with joaniemarie and I. The whole thing starts off under false presupposed opinions on what the other believes. I like that here I asked you directly exactly what you meant and believed, you laid it out, and I actually agree and was under a false impression of what you were saying and why.

I do however have to tell you I do not understand the angle you take to make these points, like I said before I would have never concluded that this is what you believed by the way you presented it. It does not come across to me like “you don’t have to confess for salvation”, it comes across more like “don’t confess” to me. I’m sure the history here and how we are always arguing back and forth against straw men has a lot to do with that too. I want to come together more, I want to listen more, try to understand more, never compromise and always seek truth, but be more compassionate towards my brothers, neighbors, and enemies. I have really started to realize and have my eyes open to the fact that I don’t believe the exact same way or things that I did when I was first reborn. It is a walk and God is sanctifying and molding me as I grow in Him. I think I can be too critical of others beliefs, get sucked into a battle of scarecrows, and completely ignore trying to come together as one body way too often. Of course there are things you have to profess to be a Christian, things you cannot be saved without knowing, but I see too much assertion over inquiry in my honest opinion, and am 100% guilty myself of this very thing.

LOL, but thank you BenFTW for answering me and I do honestly agree with what you said here, the only outside perspective I offer is that from my point of view you are not making clear the points you laid out here, the focus on, and the way you present it here, sometimes to me, comes off completely opposite from some perspectives. I have to also say that I have never had the impression that you don’t love our God, King, and Savior Jesus Christ, and in His name I pray He draw us all closer into Himself and to each other to proclaim His glory to all nations. Thanks again brother and have a great day.

Thanks Jimbone, for the constructive criticism and your openness to reason (and come to an understanding of the truth together). I know with this topic in particular I need to make it clear that this is specifically about our forgiveness of sin, and not an anti-sin confession rant. Coming in, with the title of this thread, and the way it is formatted you may not understand that this an extension of previous conversations and so the context was always addressing the redundancy of sin confession for the sake of forgiveness (because we are forgiven already in Christ), and not a position of hiding our sins from God (or showing a lack of transparency before Him).

Funny enough, it always crosses my mind that I feel like I have to preface this conversation (even though I didn't, which explains your criticism). Its such an ingrained teaching that to completely dismiss it without explaining that we need to be transparent before God, repent, and walk righteously it comes off almost as sacrilegious, haha. As if sin is to be ignored (is the perception maybe). It couldn't be further from the truth.

Appreciate this conversation, and have a great day as well.

 

[BillG]

Okay, I understand what you mean, and to be honest I agree 100%. Confession "for forgiveness" is completely wrong. I understand and couldn't agree more.

I also agree that we are not condemned at all, and 1000% we serve our unbelievably and indescribable GREAT God in total gratitude, because we WANT to, because He changed our hearts and caused us to desire Him. It’s not out of "fear" or "because I keep law" AT ALL. We also agree here.

I also really agree with your last points as well. I thank you for taking the time to answer me directly, and I understand your position better now and where you're coming from. I do have to say though this was not at all the impression I got from your OP, and I also have to say I got the complete opposite impression because of the way we communicate here all the time. It happen in this very thread with joaniemarie and I. The whole thing starts off under false presupposed opinions on what the other believes. I like that here I asked you directly exactly what you meant and believed, you laid it out, and I actually agree and was under a false impression of what you were saying and why.

I do however have to tell you I do not understand the angle you take to make these points, like I said before I would have never concluded that this is what you believed by the way you presented it. It does not come across to me like “you don’t have to confess for salvation”, it comes across more like “don’t confess” to me. I’m sure the history here and how we are always arguing back and forth against straw men has a lot to do with that too. I want to come together more, I want to listen more, try to understand more, never compromise and always seek truth, but be more compassionate towards my brothers, neighbors, and enemies. I have really started to realize and have my eyes open to the fact that I don’t believe the exact same way or things that I did when I was first reborn. It is a walk and God is sanctifying and molding me as I grow in Him. I think I can be too critical of others beliefs, get sucked into a battle of scarecrows, and completely ignore trying to come together as one body way too often. Of course there are things you have to profess to be a Christian, things you cannot be saved without knowing, but I see too much assertion over inquiry in my honest opinion, and am 100% guilty myself of this very thing.

LOL, but thank you BenFTW for answering me and I do honestly agree with what you said here, the only outside perspective I offer is that from my point of view you are not making clear the points you laid out here, the focus on, and the way you present it here, sometimes to me, comes off completely opposite from some perspectives. I have to also say that I have never had the impression that you don’t love our God, King, and Savior Jesus Christ, and in His name I pray He draw us all closer into Himself and to each other to proclaim His glory to all nations. Thanks again brother and have a great day.

Good post Jimbone

 

[BenFTW]

There were two types of sacrifices for sin: personal sin offerings and national sin offerings. Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient for both, but they were handled differently.

Sin offerings were made by individuals for their personal sins every day of the year except the day of atonement. In these cases the individual did everything except apply the blood of the sacrifice to the horns of the altar: he confessed his own sin over the sacrifice and slew it.

One sin offering was made by the high priest for the entire nation's sins on the day of atonement. In these cases the high priest did everything: he confessed Israel's sins over the sacrifice , slew it and cleansed the temple with it's blood.

Your doctrine only considers the latter type of sin offering.

Actually the biblical doctrine that I present considers both, as you yourself already stated it in your first paragraph. You said, "Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient for both, but they were handled differently." By your own admission you recognize the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice for both offerings on behalf of the believer (all sin). Consider this...

Hebrews 10:10-14 King James Version (KJV)

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

As Hebrews 10 reveals, Jesus did one sacrifice "for sins forever" as opposed to the priests doing daily sacrifices. So not only was the yearly sacrifice covered through Jesus' sacrifice, but also the daily offerings. This means that our sins, all of them, have experienced remission through the blood of Christ.

 

[know1]

TOTAL FORGIVENESS
-----------------------------------------------------------​

1. The blood of Jesus has granted us the remission of our sins (Hebrews 10:18).

2. Communion involves consuming bread and wine, representations of Jesus' flesh and blood. The blood representing the remission of our sins/our forgiveness (Matthew 26:27). We remember Jesus and that which He attained on our behalf through His suffering (the forgiveness of sin, reconciliation to the Father).

3. All sin has been forgiven through Jesus because He is the sacrifice for sin, once and for all (Hebrews 10:10-14).

4. If Christ is not risen, you are dead in your sins. He is risen though, and so you are not dead in your sins (1 Corinthians 15:17).

5. Jesus was sent to reconcile us to God, if we still have sin on our account (held against us), we remain condemned. However, there is no condemnation in Jesus Christ (Romans 8:1). Therefore our sin has been forgiven and has experienced remission (back to point 1).

6. Jesus being the sufficient sacrifice that He is for all sin, there is no more offering for sin (Hebrews 10:18). Therefore, there is nothing more to do in order for sin to experience remission/forgiveness. Jesus did it.

7. We are justified by faith, not works. We do not earn salvation (saved by grace through faith), we believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins, paying the penalty for our sins (death), and resurrected on the third day for our justification (Romans 5:1, Romans 3:28, Romans 4:5). So forgiveness then is a matter of faith in the Son of God.

8. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin(Hebrews 9:22). Remission occurs through blood shed, the method described in God's word. So what does that make of any method otherwise mentioned?

9. We may enter God's presence boldly, something we could not do if our sin was not forgiven. We would die! The blood of Jesus has made our sins of scarlet as white as snow and we do not have to have reservations going before Him (Hebrews 10:19-22).

10. Seeking forgiveness through anything other than faith in Christ is to trample underfoot the Son of God, considering His blood as common (not able to do that which God says it does; being the same as the blood of bulls and goats that are not able to take away sin) and attempts to find another offering, if you will (see point 6), when there remains no more sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 10:29). We are forgiven through Christ and Him crucified. This is the profession of our faith.

It is for these reasons that we have total forgiveness. We are redeemed and forgiven of all sin. This does not mean we stop repenting, but it does mean that we no longer seek forgiveness from God because the Father has forgiven us for Christ's sake. We may express gratitude, worship, and praise to the Lord for His mercy and grace. Thank Him for the Gospel, that we are reconciled to God, forgiven, and our sins paid in full by the Son of God, Jesus Christ our Messiah.

Ephesians 4:32 King James Version (KJV)

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.​

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Coming in, with the title of this thread, and the way it is formatted you may not understand that this an extension of previous conversations and so the context was always addressing the redundancy of sin confession for the sake of forgiveness (because we are forgiven already in Christ), and not a position of hiding our sins from God (or showing a lack of transparency before Him).

It seems that you can only think of forgiveness of sin in terms of justification.

 

[know1]

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If all sins were covered and cleansed, as it states in verse 7, then why in verse 9 are we told to confess in order to be both forgiven and cleanse of our sins and unrighteousness?

And if we are automatically forgiven of all sin, then please answer why God would punish us for sins He has already forgiven and cleanse us from through and by the blood of Jesus?

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

How just would God be if He cleared us of ALL wrongdoings, wiping our slate clean by the blood of Jesus, only to judge, chastise, and punish us for the very thing we have been automatically cleanse of?
He wouldn't be.
How could you justify that?

 

[know1]

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

I would like to point out the fact that God can be called "your Father" unless you are His son or daughter, and you cannot be His child unless you are born again.

And if that be true, why do we have to forgive others, in order to be forgiven by our Father, if He has already forgiven us for all our sins, past, present, and future, forever?

This scripture clearly point out that God's children, NOT fake children who think they're His children, but truly born again children, are in need of forgiveness for trespasses or sins they have committed.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Sowing to the flesh is a sin and will reap corruption, but that should not be if all our sins have been forgiven and cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

 

[BenFTW]

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Ephesians 4:32 King James Version (KJV)

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


Colossians 3:13 King James Version (KJV)

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Notice that God "hath" forgiven us, and therefore we forgive others. It is not something we do in order to obtain God's forgiveness, because His forgiveness has been given already. He is our example, and we emulate that forgiveness, not being hypocrites. In revelation of His mercy and grace, we who are made into Christ's image, also give forgiveness. A good tree bears good fruit.

People see the words of Christ and from a self-righteous perspective see it as a law to be obeyed or else. I better forgive, or God won't forgive me, but then what forgiveness can truly be expressed from the heart? It is sourced in fear and not love. The law told us to do things in order to obtain, a ministry of condemnation (for when you fell short, you were condemned). Likewise, to forgive or God won't forgive you, sets a standard for some that is unattainable and they would be condemned.

Yet there is hope. God sanctifies us, and as believers in Christ we are transformed. We are new creations. So it is not that we forgive in order to be forgiven, it is that God has forgiven us and through such forgiveness are we able to forgive others. It is by His grace and mercy, a revelation of His love and who we become once in Christ, that gives us the ability to forgive. Scripture tells us that a good tree bears good fruit, and so a believer will forgive others, as a consequence of the new birth, God's sanctification, and in growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

One thing to keep in mind is the conditional nature of forgiveness through repentance. This forgiveness isn't unconditional in the sense of forgiving all people who have offended thee but didn't repent (Luke 17:3-4). Even God's forgiveness to humanity is through repentance (and not universally applied). Now I am not saying we should hold bitterness and resentment towards those who are unrepentant. We have an attitude of forgiveness towards them as well ("love your enemies"), and if they should repent, you would express such forgiveness for their sake.

This is like someone coming to you remorseful and in sorrow, being apologetic for their wrongs and asking you to forgive them. How can you resist and withhold from them forgiveness? Especially you who are forgiven of all sin? It would be hypocritical and where is your love? It keeps no record of wrongs. Forgive them as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you.
God made it so that we could love. It is who we now are in Christ.

 

[BenFTW]

It seems that you can only think of forgiveness of sin in terms of justification.

We must consider cause and effect. As a result of God's forgiveness (the cause) we can have fellowship with God (the effect). We are reconciled to God, and we may walk with Him. So no, I do not think of forgiveness of sin in just terms of justification but also on a practical level. Our relationship with God in this life, and how we may get to know His voice.

 

[BillG]

We must consider cause and effect. As a result of God's forgiveness (the cause) we can have fellowship with God (the effect). We are reconciled to God, and we may walk with Him. So no, I do not think of forgiveness of sin in just terms of justification but also on a practical level. Our relationship with God in this life, and how we may get to know His voice.

Ah yes,

Cause and the effect.

Alas many neglect to ask what the cause off the effect is when it comes sin anyway.

They just write people off as not saved.
No desire to get behind the scenes.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

We must consider cause and effect. As a result of God's forgiveness (the cause) we can have fellowship with God (the effect). We are reconciled to God, and we may walk with Him. So no, I do not think of forgiveness of sin in just terms of justification but also on a practical level. Our relationship with God in this life, and how we may get to know His voice.

Forgiveness on a practical level requires acknowledging sin against another in a relationship. Your claim that acknowledging sin against another in a relationship is not necessary tells me you don't have much experience with close relationships. That type of dishonesty and disrespect in a relationship never works. Dysfunctional relationships work that way, but I guarantee you GOD does not do dysfunctional relationships.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

1 John 5:

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


When we love God, we will keep His commandments. And we will be able to more effectively do so as we mature spiritually and learn the Truth of God's Word so that we are not tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive (Eph 4:14).


For myself, when I find that the commandments of God are seemingly burdensome, I know I have turned from Father and I am striving in my flesh to do as God has instructed. At that point, I go to Father and let Him know that I recognize and realize I have left Him. I turn to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and follow His instruction in Matt 11:29-30 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. He helps me and shows me how to navigate through this life.

 

[know1]

Ephesians 4:32 King James Version (KJV)

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


Colossians 3:13 King James Version (KJV)

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Notice that God "hath" forgiven us, and therefore we forgive others. It is not something we do in order to obtain God's forgiveness, because His forgiveness has been given already. He is our example, and we emulate that forgiveness, not being hypocrites. In revelation of His mercy and grace, we who are made into Christ's image, also give forgiveness. A good tree bears good fruit.

People see the words of Christ and from a self-righteous perspective see it as a law to be obeyed or else. I better forgive, or God won't forgive me, but then what forgiveness can truly be expressed from the heart? It is sourced in fear and not love. The law told us to do things in order to obtain, a ministry of condemnation (for when you fell short, you were condemned). Likewise, to forgive or God won't forgive you, sets a standard for some that is unattainable and they would be condemned.

Yet there is hope. God sanctifies us, and as believers in Christ we are transformed. We are new creations. So it is not that we forgive in order to be forgiven, it is that God has forgiven us and through such forgiveness are we able to forgive others. It is by His grace and mercy, a revelation of His love and who we become once in Christ, that gives us the ability to forgive. Scripture tells us that a good tree bears good fruit, and so a believer will forgive others, as a consequence of the new birth, God's sanctification, and in growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

One thing to keep in mind is the conditional nature of forgiveness through repentance. This forgiveness isn't unconditional in the sense of forgiving all people who have offended thee but didn't repent (Luke 17:3-4). Even God's forgiveness to humanity is through repentance (and not universally applied). Now I am not saying we should hold bitterness and resentment towards those who are unrepentant. We have an attitude of forgiveness towards them as well ("love your enemies"), and if they should repent, you would express such forgiveness for their sake.

This is like someone coming to you remorseful and in sorrow, being apologetic for their wrongs and asking you to forgive them. How can you resist and withhold from them forgiveness? Especially you who are forgiven of all sin? It would be hypocritical and where is your love? It keeps no record of wrongs. Forgive them as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you.
God made it so that we could love. It is who we now are in Christ.

I don't know if you know it or not, but we have more than one tree and one kind of tree in each of us, even as there was more than one tree and one kind of tree in the garden of Eden.

The earth or ground always represents the heart, whether it be of man or God, and plants have represented the varying types of spirits planted within said ground/heart.

God did not remove the old man/corrupt tree, with corrupt spirits within it, which causes man to act like the dominate spirit within it.

But He did give us a new man/good tree, with good spirits within it, which causes man to act like the dominate spirit within it.

Which also means there is also more than one kind or type of spirit.

Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

At that moment, James and John had another spirit that got hold of them, even as it happened to Peter.

Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

Point being, we are suppose to be dead to sin and alive unto righteousness, but the truth is most of us give in to the old man and it's ways, hence, one of the battles within.

Which brings me to the other point. That being that there is more than one kind of forgiveness as there is more than one kind of sin.

In Romans 8:2 we learn that there is a law of sin and a law of death.
One affects our eternal destiny and the other affects our quality of life on earth.

Those who are born again, have received forgiveness of sins for salvation and from curses of the law of sin, at the moment of conversion, but not when they sin afterwards.

One is still born again when they sin again after conversion, but the law of sin is not over ruled by the law of grace.

Again I say that God does not punish, rebuke, chastise, or judged the guiltless, forgiven, sinless, righteous, obedient, and the just, but the guilty, unforgiven, sinful, unrighteous, disobedient, and the wicked. If He did chastise those who are righteous in His eyes, then He would be and unjust God.

God did not have the devil attack Job because he was righteous, but because he was sinning. He was righteous in his own heart, and did everything he thought he was suppose to do, and therefore he was a law unto himself, in that, his heart did not condemn anything he did.

When one of God's children sins, He punishes them in the natural, as scripture clearly shows repeatedly. That should not be contested. There are consequences to those who sin and to their families.

So if the born again child of God is chastised, it is because they were not forgiven of the sin they are being chastised for. Otherwise, God would not be just.

You don't wipe a persons slate clean, as though they never sinned, only to punish them for the sin you cleared them of. Think about that.

It also goes against the other laws of God such as sowing and reaping.

Why do you think so many people are weak and sickly? Even as they were with those who took communion unworthily?

Paul said if we were to judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

That means, the sin remains until one repents and confesses it, as it states in 1 John.

You are ignoring so many scriptures to make your doctrine work, while ignoring the realities of life.

As far as your salvation goes, for the most part, it remains untouched when we sin. But when it comes to the natural part, we are subject to the law of sin, and the consequences of it, when we sin.

The law of grace comes into effect AGAIN WHEN we repent of those sins, and the blood of Jesus, once again, cleanses us from all sin, through the same sacrifice that God used to forgive us the first time we came to Christ in faith.

We are not of the law but we are to fulfill it, through faith in Christ. If we are commissioned to fulfill the law, wouldn't He be a hypocrite if He did any different?

And we are to forgive even those who do not repent or ask for our forgiveness. I have done so, many times. If you forgive those who have forgiven you, what reward have you?

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

These laws/promises do not get overwritten or ignored just because one is born again.

They might not lose their salvation, but they most certainly can lose out on God's favor and grace when it comes to healing or other answered prayers.

The very reason John the Baptist was sent ahead of Jesus was to get the people of God to repent SO THAT JESUS COULD BOTH HEAL AND DELIVER THEM.

God is the same today as He was back then, and He will do the same today for those who repent, as He did for them back then.

FORGIVENESS OF ONE'S SINS, IS CONDITIONAL. In order for one not to be judged or chastised, they must judge themselves and repent, and then they will not be judged, AS IT IS WRITTEN.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God did not have the devil attack Job because he was righteous, but because he was sinning. He was righteous in his own heart, and did everything he thought he was suppose to do, and therefore he was a law unto himself, in that, his heart did not condemn anything he did.

God did not "have the devil attack Job".

satan did that all on his own. The fact that God allowed satan limited access to Job after satan asked permission does not mean God had the devil "attack" Job.

In Job 1:12, we see God limited satan and told him only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Thereafter, in Job 2:6, God granted another request of satan but limited satan from taking the life of Job.

satan is the enemy of God and he attacks God's people. If God's people were to be removed from the earth, satan would attack his own people.

 

[Lewiz]

typical blame shifting i have come to expect from certain people,

Like you don't do that.

Yeah, again typical, you refuse t call out people who are sinning, and attack those who are calling hem out. Whatever. Did we not go through this with peter jens, fran, ISIT and a few others? Why is it only certain people we have these issues with and they all have issues with hypergrace, yet do not have a clue about what it is?

I see 2 things here: 1. He that judgeth doth the same things. You do this all the time in the NBW's thread.
2. EG's taking a stand for hyper-grace.

seems everyone knows what i believe, but the same group of people who keep going around telling a bunch of others what hey believe, yet have no clue,

We see, because you're always showing it, like taking up for HG in this post.

 

[Angela53510]

KJV Dictionary Definition: FORGIV'EN, Pardoned remitted.

Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words

(Strong's #863 — Verb — aphiemi — af-ee'-ay-mee )

(b) sins, e.g., Matthew 9:2,5,6 ; 12:31,32 ; Acts 8:22 ("the thought of thine heart"); Romans 4:7 ; James 5:15 ; 1 John 1:9 ; 2:12 . In this latter respect the verb, like its corresponding noun (below), firstly signifies the remission of the punishment due to sinful conduct, the deliverance of the sinner from the penalty Divinely, and therefore righteously, imposed; secondly, it involves the complete removal of the cause of offense; such remission is based upon the vicarious and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ.

(Strong's #5483 — Verb — charizomai — khar-id'-zom-ahee )

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Col 3:13 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

"to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness," whether Divine, Ephesians 4:32 ; Colossians 2:13 ; 3:13

Posted above King James Bible Dictionary say's: FORGIV'EN = Believer's sins ""Pardoned"" (PAST TENSE) remitted.

Posted above Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words say's the meaning of forgiven in Rom 4:7, Eph 4:32 & Col 2:13: signifies the remission of the punishment due to sinful conduct, the deliverance of the sinner from the penalty Divinely, and therefore righteously, imposed; secondly, it involves the complete removal of the cause of offense; such remission is based upon the vicarious and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ.

Posted above Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words say's the meaning of forgiven in Col 2:13 & James 5:15: to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness

King James say's believers sins are PARDONED. Vines say's the believers sin forgivness is UNCONDITIONAL.

When a believer is showed via the indwelling Holy Spirit that: They've missed the mark/sinned, they need not gravel or beg for forgivness.

They should praise & thank God for the forgivness ALREADY provided/given freely through thier faith in Christ's finished redemptive work. Then turn from thier failure and move forward.

Tell you what, FlyingDove. Forget the Vine’s, the transliterated words you know nothing about, context, and oh yes, forget the KJV.

You cannot prove anything from Vine’s or the archaic words of the KJV (Sorry Nehemiah, I know you do a good job with the KJV, but this guy does NOT!)

Leave the false proofs alone, and take a real course on Greek. Then, if you truly believe something is right, you can quote the original language, rather than “King James say's believers sins are PARDONED.”

The KJV has a lot of problems, because the words in English have changed. Plus, we know so much more about Greek now, than the translation committee over 400 years ago. However, I will admit there are people on this site that use the KJV well, but you are not one of them.

Vine’s??? Ha! This place just gets funnier and funnier!

PS. I have an copy of Vine’s another back translation of the KJV to Greek. Get a real lexicon, like Bauer (BDAG) is you want to sound like your have a clue, ok? That is Greek to English. And scholarly.