correct my summary

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E

ed

Guest
#1
#1
Hi,
I have read many posts discussing the Trinity and how this Trinity works. I want to lay down what I have picked up from these discussions and ask if I am understanding you. Then I need some clarification. I thank you in advance for your imput.
Trinity is a Godhead, Three distinct persons in one God. Each person is equal. Each person has a different function. Each person operates individually in their function.
The names of the Trinity are God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit each of the same essence, being equal, being individual and having different functions.

Enter Mary, with child of the Holy Spirit.

Now I ask .
Which function came down from heaven, to the body prepared, named Jesus Christ.
love
edwin.
 
S

Saint

Guest
#2
#2
I guess it was prophecy, Charisenexcelcis, we are going to have 777. But to answer your question, ed, I do believe that the Son is the one who came to Earth.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#3
Feb 24, 2009
3,057
1,032
113
New Zealand
#3
Also remember the verses where the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are doing the same thing at the same time.. there are many verses like that in the bible. For example:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

becomes:

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

and as well as this:

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - reference to Jesus

there are many more which have Jesus.. the Holy Spirit and the Father either doing the same thing.. or switching roles to do eachother's jobs

So this leads me to believe they are not as distinct as many believe.

But ya.. one being-- God in 3 persons.. I believe.. just the distinction between the persons gets fuzzed alot in the bible.. so I prefer to think them as expressions of God rather than distinct seperate beings.
 
E

ed

Guest
#4
#4
Saint said:
I guess it was prophecy, Charisenexcelcis, we are going to have 777. But to answer your question, ed, I do believe that the Son is the one who came to Earth.
Click to expand...
Hi Saint,
That is exactly what I have been saying completely all this time.
The Son is God's Son whom He sent down tor a body prepared for him.
What absolutely terrifies me is that for those who believe that the Son did not come down, then they have rejected the Son.

love
edwin
 
VW

VW

Banned
#5
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#5
Edwin,

There is just some confusion in this area. Really, I see that there is no one who is denying Jesus Christ the Son, that He is who came to earth and took upon Himself flesh. And He is separate yet one with the Father. And He even had commandment from the Father to lay down His life and take it up again. I won't say that they are all three equal, because Jesus said of His Father that no one could take us out of His hand, (the Father's hand,) because He (the Father) is greater than all. And also, Jesus said that His Father has given Jesus all judgment, so that all might honor the Son. And the kingdom will continue in the Son's hands until every enemy of the Son is made a footstool under His feet, and then He will deliver up the kingdom to His Father.

All this to say that the Father is greater than the Son, holds a higher place in heaven. But this in no way minimizes the deity of the Son. He is fully God, and in Him dwells the Godhead fully. By this Paul is saying that God resides in Jesus fully, but beyond that, in Him is the full nature of the Godhead.

He is the Son. He is the heir, and in Him we have become joint heirs. Because He came for us, at His Father's command.
 
S

Saint

Guest
#6
#6
ed said:
Hi Saint,
That is exactly what I have been saying completely all this time.
The Son is God's Son whom He sent down tor a body prepared for him.
What absolutely terrifies me is that for those who believe that the Son did not come down, then they have rejected the Son.

love
edwin
Click to expand...
Yes, but don't you believe that Jesus is not equal to the Father? that's been the argument for a lot of us, that Jesus is equal to the Father, and that's where we all disagree. I believe they are more like steam, water, and ice, 3 different forms of the same thing. Other's believe they are more like a cup of water, a cup of less water, and a cup of even less water. And some believe they are one cup of water.
 
E

ed

Guest
#7
#7
VW said:
Edwin,

There is just some confusion in this area. Really, I see that there is no one who is denying Jesus Christ the Son, that He is who came to earth and took upon Himself flesh. And He is separate yet one with the Father. And He even had commandment from the Father to lay down His life and take it up again. I won't say that they are all three equal, because Jesus said of His Father that no one could take us out of His hand, (the Father's hand,) because He (the Father) is greater than all. And also, Jesus said that His Father has given Jesus all judgment, so that all might honor the Son. And the kingdom will continue in the Son's hands until every enemy of the Son is made a footstool under His feet, and then He will deliver up the kingdom to His Father.

All this to say that the Father is greater than the Son, holds a higher place in heaven. But this in no way minimizes the deity of the Son. He is fully God, and in Him dwells the Godhead fully. By this Paul is saying that God resides in Jesus fully, but beyond that, in Him is the full nature of the Godhead.

He is the Son. He is the heir, and in Him we have become joint heirs. Because He came for us, at His Father's command.
Click to expand...
Hi Vic,
Yes most of the people here deny Jesus Christ. They say that God came in the flesh ,the son of Mary, Jesus Christ. That is rejecting the Son of God, through whom creation was made, who existed before the world was made and who holds creation together.
If they believe it in their heart that the Son of God became flesh, then let them say it with their mouth or else they do not believe and therefore are not saved.
I, like you, don't believe they are equal because of the scripture you quoted, because God is always the one who makes the decisions and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are obeying. Yes the Father has given all authority to the Son, but it was the Father who gave it to the Son, not a board room meeting nor the Son taking from the Father.
But I don't want to have too many issues on the table at one time.
I would desperately love to have people accept Jesus Christ as the Son who came down from heaven in obedience to His Father.
love
edwin
 
E

ed

Guest
#8
#8
Saint said:
Yes, but don't you believe that Jesus is not equal to the Father? that's been the argument for a lot of us, that Jesus is equal to the Father, and that's where we all disagree. I believe they are more like steam, water, and ice, 3 different forms of the same thing. Other's believe they are more like a cup of water, a cup of less water, and a cup of even less water. And some believe they are one cup of water.
Click to expand...
Hi Saint,
Please firstly examine in your heart the truth that the Son of God, came down and was manifested in the flesh, into the body prepared for him, the son of Mary.
When you have satisified your self on this issue then move on to the one of equality. The easiest way to look at that is to look at a father and an obedient son.
Our language was given to us to help us understand.
love
edwin
 
VW

VW

Banned
#9
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#9
ed said:
Hi Vic,
Yes most of the people here deny Jesus Christ. They say that God came in the flesh ,the son of Mary, Jesus Christ. That is rejecting the Son of God, through whom creation was made, who existed before the world was made and who holds creation together.
If they believe it in their heart that the Son of God became flesh, then let them say it with their mouth or else they do not believe and therefore are not saved.
I, like you, don't believe they are equal because of the scripture you quoted, because God is always the one who makes the decisions and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are obeying. Yes the Father has given all authority to the Son, but it was the Father who gave it to the Son, not a board room meeting nor the Son taking from the Father.
But I don't want to have too many issues on the table at one time.
I would desperately love to have people accept Jesus Christ as the Son who came down from heaven in obedience to His Father.
love
edwin
Click to expand...

Edwin,
I don't call ahat they do rejecting the Son, and frankly, this is what is causing the trouble. They acknowledge the Son, but consider Him as fully God, just as you and I do. I even think that they all would admit to the subservient position that the Son has in relationship to the Father. I mean, the Lord did sY to my Lord to sit at His right hand, and He did give Him a name above every name, and to have life in Himself, even as the Father has life in Himself. I believe language is our undoing here.

What has always amazed me is how Paul wrote that we have died, and our lives are hid in God with Jesus Christ. I know that we are in Jesus, but also in the Father, if this was Paul's intent.

Anyway, there is no doubt in my mind that the Son is in submission to the Father. At the same time , I cannot see Jesus as being one bit less God than the Father. The same for the Holy Spirit. They all three make up the Godhead and are inseparable. They cannot be taken one without the others. And while in our way of things, one submitted to another is by necessity less than the one submitted to, I think it would be a grave mistake to consider the Son or the Spirit in a lessor light than the Father. I believe the Father would be the One to take exception. And while one can speak against the Father or the Son and it be forgiven them, there is no provision for speaking against the Spirit and receiving forgiveness for that.

All this to ask you to consider that no is really denying the Son, but just using different words to describe Him.

Blessings in His name,
Vic
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#10
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#10
Im just confused at how one would say Jesus is subserviant when scripture says all athority is given to the son, for he is the true savior and Lord.
Jesus is the word, and the word became flesh.
Im confused here on why one would say Jesus is not one with God the Father?
For me to say Jesus is less is to deny the word Of God.
If it is because Jesus was obedient to God the Father, I see this as nessasary because Jesus became flesh for us, the flesh is subject to God.
Does not scripture say that Jesus is the Son of God and son of man?
Why is this debated by some?
When scripture is clear.
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles
 
VW

VW

Banned
#11
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#11
The Father gave to the Son all judgment, so that all might honor the Son even as they honor the Father. Jesus Himself said that the Father is greater than He is. Paul wrote that the Father is making every enemy of Jesus to be a footstool beneath His feet, excepting Him who is making every enemy to be a footstool. And in the end, when all things arefi iced , Jesus delivers up the kingdom to the Father. But the most telling thing of them all is that Jesus is our high priest with the Father. He intercedes with the Father for us. In my heart I cannot see that I have demeaned Jesus in any way. He is God even as the Father is God. In Jesus I have my life and salvation and existence and everything else. I am nothing without Him.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#12
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#12
Is the son like the father? Is the heir like the master? Jesus is the heir of God the Father, and we are joint heirs with Him. Jesus has the place of honor at the right hand of God. The Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father. The Father said of Jesus, "This is My Son, in whom I am well pleased."
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#13
#13
i heard someone explain it like this the other day, in a dimensional figure of speech he stated to look at a cube, it is three dimensional, now cast a light on it and you see the shadow, two dimensional,a square is all you see yet it is a reflection of the cube which is three dimensional. Having man made in the image of God, (eg given God as the cube) the Word become flesh(eg given Jesus being the square image of the cube) so God at the same time is Jesus, the reflection of God made flesh..... made some sense to me,

i cant wait to get to heaven.............

just sharing a persons thought,
 
VW

VW

Banned
#14
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#14
Some more words that Jesus said, to think on His relationship with our Father. He said that His Father always gives Him what He asks for, because He always does those things which are pleasing in His Father's sight. He said of His words and actions that He only said what He heard His Father saying, and o ly did what He saw His Father doing. He said of His purpose that His Father gave Him the commandment to lay down His life for us, ant also commanded Him to take it up again. The way He said this made it clear that by receiving command from His Father gave Him the authority to accomplish this wonderful task. And of us, His sheep, He said that we have been given to Him by His Father , who is greater than all. He said of Himself that His Father has given Him life, to have life in Himself, just as the Father has life in Himself.

Just things to think about, if one feels inclined.
 
S

Saint

Guest
#15
#15
Just because Jesus obeys God and does what God asks doesn't make Him less. Look at the way He treated His disciples, He washed their feet, served them, and He died for all of humanity, but that doesn't make Him any less than them.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#16
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#16
John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I."
 
B

Buddee

Guest
#17
#17
VW said:
John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I."
Click to expand...
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

The problem with this whole Trinity topic is that people try to understand the supernatural using the natural, using their finite minds to define our infinite God. It simply can't be done.

Enter Faith.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Jesus is the Word. The Word was with God, ergo Jesus was with God. The Word IS God, ergo, Jesus IS God.

But, How can that be? Well, maybe my mind can't fathom that. But God's Word which I accept on faith to be true, says it is so, ergo, it is so.

Shouldn't that be good enough for all of us?
 
VW

VW

Banned
#18
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#18
Buddee said:
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

The problem with this whole Trinity topic is that people try to understand the supernatural using the natural, using their finite minds to define our infinite God. It simply can't be done.

Enter Faith.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Jesus is the Word. The Word was with God, ergo Jesus was with God. The Word IS God, ergo, Jesus IS God.

But, How can that be? Well, maybe my mind can't fathom that. But God's Word which I accept on faith to be true, says it is so, ergo, it is so.

Shouldn't that be good enough for all of us?
Click to expand...
Well, it should be, but there is the little problem of our eventually needing to have a relationship with the Father through Jesus, and it is very important to have the understanding of just who we are dealing with before we seek to enter into this relationship.

I truly do not intend to make it a point of contention. If everyone is uncomfortable with the idea that Jesus is in submission to the Father, then I will let it slide.

I really don't want to be in contention about this. But it seems to be another one of those touchy spots that ought to tell us something.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#19
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#19
Buddee said:
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

The problem with this whole Trinity topic is that people try to understand the supernatural using the natural, using their finite minds to define our infinite God. It simply can't be done.

Enter Faith.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Jesus is the Word. The Word was with God, ergo Jesus was with God. The Word IS God, ergo, Jesus IS God.

But, How can that be? Well, maybe my mind can't fathom that. But God's Word which I accept on faith to be true, says it is so, ergo, it is so.

Shouldn't that be good enough for all of us?
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I love your icon.
 
B

Buddee

Guest
#20
#20
The "knowing" can only come through, not prior to, the relationship.
 
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