correct my summary

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C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#21
Edwin,
I don't call ahat they do rejecting the Son, and frankly, this is what is causing the trouble. They acknowledge the Son, but consider Him as fully God, just as you and I do. I even think that they all would admit to the subservient position that the Son has in relationship to the Father. I mean, the Lord did sY to my Lord to sit at His right hand, and He did give Him a name above every name, and to have life in Himself, even as the Father has life in Himself. I believe language is our undoing here.

What has always amazed me is how Paul wrote that we have died, and our lives are hid in God with Jesus Christ. I know that we are in Jesus, but also in the Father, if this was Paul's intent.

Anyway, there is no doubt in my mind that the Son is in submission to the Father. At the same time , I cannot see Jesus as being one bit less God than the Father. The same for the Holy Spirit. They all three make up the Godhead and are inseparable. They cannot be taken one without the others. And while in our way of things, one submitted to another is by necessity less than the one submitted to, I think it would be a grave mistake to consider the Son or the Spirit in a lessor light than the Father. I believe the Father would be the One to take exception. And while one can speak against the Father or the Son and it be forgiven them, there is no provision for speaking against the Spirit and receiving forgiveness for that.

All this to ask you to consider that no is really denying the Son, but just using different words to describe Him.

Blessings in His name,
Vic
I agree with all you said, though I think it is a bit harder to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. The submission of the Son to the Father is not one of lesser nature, but of eternal relationship. I have no problem saying that the Son of God came in the flesh. What I insist is that Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#22
Jesus is fully God and man. No question about that. I think all that is being said is that Jesus is in the Father, and not the Father. One yet distinct.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#23
Revelations chapter 5 is an interesting picture of heaven, God's throne and He who sits on it, and of the Lamb, worthy to open the book with the 7 seals.

There is much in this relationship of the Father and the Son which we cannot understand, but it is a Father/Son relationship.

Blessings in Christ,
vic
 
R

Ricke

Guest
#24
Ed and all;
I fully understand who Jesus is, who the Father is and who the Holy Ghost is I teach it daily , and have for 20+ years.

1. God, The Father is a Spirit (John 4 v 24) his Spirit covers the entire Universe. His Spirit is beyond anything we humans will ever see. He is everywhere at the same time.

God decided to create himself in a human body to become a perfect blood sacrifice for all of mankind's sons. In the OT he demanded a perfect Animal sacrificed for sin Atonement. That did'nt work anymore because product got lazy and complacent and it got Boring unto people in the OT.

So God decided to create a human Body a Sinless perfect sacrifice fervour sins. nobody but God himself qualifies as a perfect sacrifice. The rest of us have blemish after blemish since the Day we were born.

Since God is a Spirit; he cannot die, or shed blood.

Hebrews 9 v 22 " And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission ( of anyone's sins)." Also read verse 12 same Chapter.

That is why created his "Son" Jesus through a Human Mother ( Mary) so Jesus would be fully human, and fully God. Like I said God in Spirit can not shed Blood nor die. Both of these events had to take place or no atonement for our sins.

Was Jesus "separate" from his Father? Not on your life. He told us; "I and My Father are ONE." (John 10 v 30.) Jesus was fully God/ Fully human. He had a "dual nature". He spoke as God, be spoke like his humanity.

The Holy Ghost.....Is a Spirit. How many "Spirits" does The Bible say there is?.......ONE.....I Corinthians 12 v 13/ Ephesians 4 v 4.

So now we see a Unity of ONE and not a Triunity..The Father is the 3.....God Bless.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#25
Ed and all;
I fully understand who Jesus is, who the Father is and who the Holy Ghost is I teach it daily , and have for 20+ years.

1. God, The Father is a Spirit (John 4 v 24) his Spirit covers the entire Universe. His Spirit is beyond anything we humans will ever see. He is everywhere at the same time.

God decided to create himself in a human body to become a perfect blood sacrifice for all of mankind's sons. In the OT he demanded a perfect Animal sacrificed for sin Atonement. That did'nt work anymore because product got lazy and complacent and it got Boring unto people in the OT.

So God decided to create a human Body a Sinless perfect sacrifice fervour sins. nobody but God himself qualifies as a perfect sacrifice. The rest of us have blemish after blemish since the Day we were born.

Since God is a Spirit; he cannot die, or shed blood.

Hebrews 9 v 22 " And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission ( of anyone's sins)." Also read verse 12 same Chapter.

That is why created his "Son" Jesus through a Human Mother ( Mary) so Jesus would be fully human, and fully God. Like I said God in Spirit can not shed Blood nor die. Both of these events had to take place or no atonement for our sins.

Was Jesus "separate" from his Father? Not on your life. He told us; "I and My Father are ONE." (John 10 v 30.) Jesus was fully God/ Fully human. He had a "dual nature". He spoke as God, be spoke like his humanity.

The Holy Ghost.....Is a Spirit. How many "Spirits" does The Bible say there is?.......ONE.....I Corinthians 12 v 13/ Ephesians 4 v 4.

So now we see a Unity of ONE and not a Triunity..The Father is the 3.....God Bless.
If God created a body which became Jesus, to fulfill a blood sacrifice which in scripture was never perfect, because the blood of goats and bulls could never cleanse the conscience of the worshiper, and if Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, then what you say here is full of holes.
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#26
The Father gave to the Son all judgment, so that all might honor the Son even as they honor the Father. Jesus Himself said that the Father is greater than He is. Paul wrote that the Father is making every enemy of Jesus to be a footstool beneath His feet, excepting Him who is making every enemy to be a footstool. And in the end, when all things arefi iced , Jesus delivers up the kingdom to the Father. But the most telling thing of them all is that Jesus is our high priest with the Father. He intercedes with the Father for us. In my heart I cannot see that I have demeaned Jesus in any way. He is God even as the Father is God. In Jesus I have my life and salvation and existence and everything else. I am nothing without Him.
VW, no worries, Im not saying you demeaned Jesus in any way. Im just trying to understand what the debate is about. Just a bit confused on this.
:confused::)
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#27
I guess my question is, what is the debate?
God said it, I believe it.
Sorry, I did not mean to restart the debate, Im just asking what the debate is?
Thanks and Godd bless, pickles
 
E

ed

Guest
#28
Edwin,
I don't call ahat they do rejecting the Son, and frankly, this is what is causing the trouble. They acknowledge the Son, but consider Him as fully God, just as you and I do. I even think that they all would admit to the subservient position that the Son has in relationship to the Father. I mean, the Lord did sY to my Lord to sit at His right hand, and He did give Him a name above every name, and to have life in Himself, even as the Father has life in Himself. I believe language is our undoing here.

What has always amazed me is how Paul wrote that we have died, and our lives are hid in God with Jesus Christ. I know that we are in Jesus, but also in the Father, if this was Paul's intent.

Anyway, there is no doubt in my mind that the Son is in submission to the Father. At the same time , I cannot see Jesus as being one bit less God than the Father. The same for the Holy Spirit. They all three make up the Godhead and are inseparable. They cannot be taken one without the others. And while in our way of things, one submitted to another is by necessity less than the one submitted to, I think it would be a grave mistake to consider the Son or the Spirit in a lessor light than the Father. I believe the Father would be the One to take exception. And while one can speak against the Father or the Son and it be forgiven them, there is no provision for speaking against the Spirit and receiving forgiveness for that.

All this to ask you to consider that no is really denying the Son, but just using different words to describe Him.

Blessings in His name,

Vic
Hi Vic
Thank you for the great post. Blessed are the peace makers.
I have to say I am very scared over this issue. There has to be a reason and the reason is not Jesus, that we have this (peace full terminology) different way of expressing the same belief.
If it is as you say, only in the wording and not in the belief,
then if those who say God came in the flesh changed to saying , God the Son came in the flesh then they would be acknowledging the Son, and this is my hearts desire. Acknowledging that the Son of God came down to earth.
love
edwin.
 
E

ed

Guest
#29
I guess my question is, what is the debate?
God said it, I believe it.
Sorry, I did not mean to restart the debate, Im just asking what the debate is?
Thanks and Godd bless, pickles
Hi Pickles,
Thank you very much for joining in this thread. I hope you have a blessed day.
love
edwin
 
E

ed

Guest
#30
I agree with all you said, though I think it is a bit harder to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. The submission of the Son to the Father is not one of lesser nature, but of eternal relationship. I have no problem saying that the Son of God came in the flesh. What I insist is that Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man.
Hi charisenexcelcis,
Thanks for joining in and for separating the issues.
1) The Son of God came in the flesh.
2) Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man.

I think it vitally important to being saved that (1) be believed fully in the heart and expressed in the word.
The second point you identified is a separate issue which can be debated if anyone desires to.
love in Christ
edwin
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#31
I cannot help but wonder if the problem is simply not about Jesus ever being less, because as you said Jesus asking the Father and being obedient to Him does not mean less. Also scripture does say that they who come last shall be first.
Jesus came to serve both God the Father and us.
I agree that this seems to have more to do with thinking in the world , rather than in Jesus.
The more I study the word the closer I am coming to see that it is in absolute serving that we will know Jesus.
To enter into Jesus is not about gain, but being in Him.
Just as we can be one with Jesus, Jesus said we will be one with the Father.
I often wonder if God Our Father is more about being.
Just my thoughts on this.
Guess thats why I cannot understand what the debate is about, How can we debate that which is so great that we cannot begin to fathom while here in the world?
God bless, pickles
 
E

ed

Guest
#32
Just because Jesus obeys God and does what God asks doesn't make Him less. Look at the way He treated His disciples, He washed their feet, served them, and He died for all of humanity, but that doesn't make Him any less than them.
Hi Saint,
did Jesus obey the disciples or did the disciples obey Jesus?
love
edwin
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#33
VW, no worries, Im not saying you demeaned Jesus in any way. Im just trying to understand what the debate is about. Just a bit confused on this.
:confused::)
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles
Hi sister,

You know that I would never want to cause you any distress. I look at our relationship with Jesus, the one that He wants us to have perfectly, and realize that it is exactly like the one He has with His Father. He said that we are to be one with Him just as He is one with the Father. When I say submission, I do not in my heart nor in my mind mean that Jesus is any less than the Father, that He is just as fully God as the Father. But One is the Father, and the Other is the Son. Now in this world, when the father dies, the son takes his place, but our heavenly Father will never die, so the Son will never take His place, and I know that He does not even want to take His Father's place. Yet, His Father has given Him a throne, has seated Him at His right hand.

Anyway, just a few thoughts while I am still asleep.
In His love,
vic
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#34
Hi Saint,
did Jesus obey the disciples or did the disciples obey Jesus?
love
edwin
Jesus served the disciples and the disciples served Jesus.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#35
Ed and all;
I fully understand who Jesus is, who the Father is and who the Holy Ghost is I teach it daily , and have for 20+ years.

1. God, The Father is a Spirit (John 4 v 24) his Spirit covers the entire Universe. His Spirit is beyond anything we humans will ever see. He is everywhere at the same time.

God decided to create himself in a human body to become a perfect blood sacrifice for all of mankind's sons. In the OT he demanded a perfect Animal sacrificed for sin Atonement. That did'nt work anymore because product got lazy and complacent and it got Boring unto people in the OT.

So God decided to create a human Body a Sinless perfect sacrifice fervour sins. nobody but God himself qualifies as a perfect sacrifice. The rest of us have blemish after blemish since the Day we were born.

Since God is a Spirit; he cannot die, or shed blood.

Hebrews 9 v 22 " And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission ( of anyone's sins)." Also read verse 12 same Chapter.

That is why created his "Son" Jesus through a Human Mother ( Mary) so Jesus would be fully human, and fully God. Like I said God in Spirit can not shed Blood nor die. Both of these events had to take place or no atonement for our sins.

Was Jesus "separate" from his Father? Not on your life. He told us; "I and My Father are ONE." (John 10 v 30.) Jesus was fully God/ Fully human. He had a "dual nature". He spoke as God, be spoke like his humanity.

The Holy Ghost.....Is a Spirit. How many "Spirits" does The Bible say there is?.......ONE.....I Corinthians 12 v 13/ Ephesians 4 v 4.

So now we see a Unity of ONE and not a Triunity..The Father is the 3.....God Bless.
I AGREE WITH YOU.

the GODHEAD is NEVER referred to as The Trinity in Scripture.

the GODHEAD is Triune. if you want to use word Trinity, fine. but to take that word and use it as a weapon against those of us who KNOW Jesus is God is sad to say the least.


this charge by some that we who consider JESUS CHRIST THE CREATOR GOD HIMSELF, FATHER SON AND SPIRIT are somehow heretics and blasphemers is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE to me.

how can i, who BELIEVES Jesus THE CHRIST is the SON of GOD (while at the same time GOD HIMSELF) be accused of DENYING THE CHRIST? denying He is the Son of God? outrageous.

apparently you do not understand THE INCARNATION. you do not understand THE GOSPEL OF JOHN which presents JESUS AS THE ETERNAL GOD HIMSELF. you make the charge that we who believe in the TRIUNE GODHEAD (which you call the Trinity) somehow deny JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF MAN IS ALSO THE SON OF GOD . you need to study the geneology in Luke 3.

to those who charge me with the blasphemy of denying Jesus is the Son of God:

please address and explain the following verses to me to justify the "SUBORDINATION" (ETERNAL???) of the ETERNAL CHRIST (not FLESH, not THE SON OF MAN) i will repent.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

did your separate Father relinquish His Fatherhood and give it His subordinate Son? where did the Father go? is He off somewhere retired, fishing perhaps???

does it or does it not say Jesus is THE EVERLASTING FATHER?

yes or no?


:mad:zone
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#36
John 14
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?


6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


7 IF YE HAD KNOWN ME, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, AND HAVE SEEN HIM.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.


9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.




ISAIAH'S VISION OF GOD

Geneva Study Bible


In the year that king Uzziah died {a} I saw also the Lord sitting upon a {b} throne, high and lifted up, and his {c} train filled the temple.
(a) God does not show himself to man in his majesty but according as man's capacity to comprehend him, that is, by visible signs as John the Baptist saw the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove.
(b) As a judge ready to give sentence.
(c) Of his garment, or of his throne.

Wesley's Notes
6:1 I saw - In a vision. The Lord - The Divine Majesty as he subsisteth in three persons. His train - His royal and judicial robe; for he is represented as a judge.

King James Translators' Notes
his...: or, the skirts thereof

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
CHAPTER 6
Isa 6:1-13. Vision of Jehovah in His Temple.

Isaiah is outside, near the altar in front of the temple. The doors are supposed to open, and the veil hiding the Holy of Holies to be withdrawn, unfolding to his view a vision of God represented as an Eastern monarch, attended by seraphim as His ministers of state (1Ki 22:19), and with a robe and flowing train (a badge of dignity in the East), which filled the temple.

This assertion that he had seen God was, according to tradition (not sanctioned by Isa 1:1; see [692]Introduction), the pretext for sawing him asunder in Manasseh's reign (Heb 11:37). Visions often occur in the other prophets: in Isaiah there is only this one, and it is marked by characteristic clearness and simplicity.

1. In . year . Uzziah died-Either literal death, or civil when he ceased as a leper to exercise his functions as king [Chaldee], (2Ch 26:19-21). 754 B.C. [Calmet] 758 (Common Chronology). This is not the first beginning of Isaiah's prophecies, but his inauguration to a higher degree of the prophetic office: Isa 6:9, &c., implies the tone of one who had already experience of the people's obstinacy.

Lord-here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have "seen" the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice "Holy" (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary 6:1-8 In this figurative vision, the temple is thrown open to view, even to the most holy place. The prophet, standing outside the temple, sees the Divine Presence seated on the mercy-seat, raised over the ark of the covenant, between the cherubim and seraphim, and the Divine glory filled the whole temple. See God upon his throne.

This vision is explained, Joh 12:41, that Isaiah now saw Christ's glory, and spake of Him, which is a full proof that our Saviour is God.

In Christ Jesus, God is seated on a throne of grace; and through him the way into the holiest is laid open. See God's temple, his church on earth, filled with his glory. His train, the skirts of his robes, filled the temple, the whole world, for it is all God's temple. And yet he dwells in every contrite heart. See the blessed attendants by whom his government is served. Above the throne stood the holy angels, called seraphim, which means burners; they burn in love to God, and zeal for his glory against sin.

The seraphim showing their faces veiled, declares that they are ready to yield obedience to all God's commands, though they do not understand the secret reasons of his counsels, government, or promises. All vain-glory, ambition, ignorance, and pride, would be done away by one view of Christ in his glory. This awful vision of the Divine Majesty overwhelmed the prophet with a sense of his own vileness. We are undone if there is not a Mediator between us and this holy God.

A glimpse of heavenly glory is enough to convince us that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Nor is there a man that would dare to speak to the Lord, if he saw the justice, holiness, and majesty of God, without discerning his glorious mercy and grace in Jesus Christ.

The live coal may denote the assurance given to the prophet, of pardon, and acceptance in his work, through the atonement of Christ. Nothing is powerful to cleanse and comfort the soul, but what is taken from Christ's satisfaction and intercession.

The taking away sin is necessary to our speaking with confidence and comfort, either to God in prayer, or from God in preaching; and those shall have their sin taken away who complain of it as a burden, and see themselves in danger of being undone by it. It is great comfort to those whom God sends, that they go for God, and may therefore speak in his name, assured that he will bear them out.

............................

WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE TO PRAY IN JESUS' NAME???
SO WE ARE RECOGNIZED AS KNOWING WHO GOD IS!

zone.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#37
Isaiah 9:6
For a child will be born to us,
a son will be given to us;
and the government will rest on His shoulders;
and His name will be called
Wonderful Counselor,
Mighty God.
 
E

ed

Guest
#38
The "knowing" can only come through, not prior to, the relationship.
Hi Buddee,
Did you help me by answering my question at the start of the thread.

I want to extend an invitation to those on the forum who helped me understand your belief to confirm to me that I truly have understood what you have been saying, remembering that our words define who we are.

love
edwin.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#39
Isaiah 9:6
For a child will be born to us,
a son will be given to us;
and the government will rest on His shoulders;
and His name will be called
Wonderful Counselor,
Mighty God.
hello VW
i'm curious to ask which bible translation you have quoted here.

i wonder why the last part is missing?

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#40
Doesn't matter how heretics feel about their execommunication. They are still teaching heresy. My advice would be to stop. It's really that simple.

The Immutability of God | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site

As a man, Jesus cooperated with the limitations of being a man. That is why we have verses like Luke 2:52 that says "Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." Therefore, at this point in his ministry he could say He did not know the day nor hour of His return. It is not a denial of His being God, but a confirmation of Him being man."

Properly understood, this passage is not a denial of the deity of Christ; rather, it is in harmony with the distinction between the two natures of Christ, one divine and one human.

1. Incommunicable attributes are those qualities of God not shared with human beings. In contrast, God's communicable attributes are shared with humans or associated with them to some degree. Because of this imago Dei, humans are like God in some certain respects but certainly not identical to him in nature. God's incommunicable and communicable attributes and Imago Dei are basic theological concepts taught at all Christian seminaries Ed but it is obvious that you never took the classes. Your entire understanding is misinformed and it's leading you into all sorts of error.
I'll just briefly introduce Imago Dei. A careful examination of Genesis 1:26-27 reveals that Hebrew references to "image" (selem) and "likeness" (demut) convey the idea of an object similar to or representative of something else, but not identical to it.

Further, the words image and likeness should not be understood as referring to two different things but rather as interchangeable terms that reflect a Hebrew form of synonymous parallelism. The New Testament Greek word for image (eikon) conveys virtually the same meaning as the Hebrew. Both languages indicate that God created humans to be similar to himself, but certainly not identical to himself. Therefore from a biblical perspective, human beings are in some sense both like and unlike the God who made them.

The Bible presents God as an infinite, eternal, immutable, and tripersonal Godhead. This basic overview of God leads to consideration of His work as the transcendent Creator and immanent Sustainer of the created order.

The author of Hebrews implies that Jesus, as the preincarnate Son of God, was indeed perfect (Heb 1:2–3). He is greater than the prophets, heir of all things and maker of the universe. But in the passage under consideration he is not in that preincarnate role. His role here is that of “the author of [the Christians’] salvation.” The preincarnate Son of God was not yet perfect in relation to that role. In fact, he could not fulfill that role at all until he became incarnate and died for the sins of humanity.

Perfection is an important concept in Hebrews (Heb 5:9, 14; 6:1; 7:11, 19, 28; 9:9, 11; 10:1, 14; 11:40; 12:2, 23). The Greek term means “to bring to maturity, perfection or fulfillment.”?1 The fulfillment aspect is the most important in Hebrews. The theme of the whole book is the fulfillment of the reality behind Mosaic ritual, but there is also a fulfillment coming to the lives of Christians as they go on to complete that to which they were called at their conversion. Even though Christ has done everything for them on the cross and they receive this upon committing themselves to him, there is a promise involved in this reception that is not fulfilled until they live out that to which they were called.

This same concept of fulfillment appears in Christ. At birth he is designated as Savior, but he has at that time done nothing to deserve such a title. It is a promise, a hope, but not yet a reality. He goes through life obeying the will of God and therefore experiencing suffering (Heb 2:18). The question remains: Will he keep on until the end? At Gethsemane, facing the time of fulfillment, he cries out, “Not my will but yours be done” (Heb 5:7 reflects this Gospel cry). He continues on his way to the cross and fulfills everything that is needed to be “founder” (the Greek term means “author,” “founder” or “leader” in most contexts) of salvation for his followers. Before that point he was not yet perfect, for death was a requirement to bring life to his people. After his death and resurrection he was the total fulfillment of all that was needed to bring salvation.

Therefore the perfection of Christ referred to here is a functional perfection, not a moral perfection, for he was never anything less than sinless. It is an earned perfection that will show up in its other aspects three more times in Hebrews (Heb 2:18; 4:15; 5:7–9), but at this point the function is salvation, earned only through death. Thus in talking about the perfecting of Christ the author underlines the fact that it was only through death and the suffering related to it that the world could gain a Savior.

"Unity" literally means "oneness." God is one Being, in contrast to many beings. There is one and only one God (monotheism) as opposed to many gods (polytheism). There are three related words that should be distinguished:

(1) Unity-There are not two or more gods.
(2) Simplicity-There are not two or more parts in God.

HOWEVER:

(3) Triunity-There are three persons in the one God.

God never created man in the image of angels, but in the divine image. In Genesis 1:26, the Father was addressing His Son and the Holy Spirit. In Genesis 3:22, after Adam had sinned, God declared, "The man has become like one of Us". Later, concerning the Tower of Babel, God said, "Let Us go down and there confUse their language" (Gen. 11: 7). In both instances the Trinity plurality again emerges.

Later, the Old Testament prophets implied this same Trinity relationship within the Deity. In recounting his call to the prophetic office, Isaiah records that God asked, "Whom shall I send? Who will go for Us?" (Isa. 6:8). God testified His threefold existence and nature.

In Zechariah, Jehovah spoke prophetically of the crucifixion and the second advent of the Messiah with these words: "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn" (Zech. 12:10).

Do not miss the importance of the Me and Him. Clearly the Lord God is speaking, yet He Himself changes the usage of I and Me to Him, and He speaks about being "pierced." There can be little room for question. God the Father is speaking of His beloved Son, the second person of the Trinity, the One who shares the Divine nature, the One who was to be made sin for us.

Quite often the question is asked, "How can God be one and yet three?" or "How can three added together produce one?" To understand this, we must realize that God is not triplex but triune. He is beyond the laws of finite mathematics. The word one itself has different meanings in the Old Testament. In Deuteronomy 6:4, Moses declared to Israel, "Hear, 0 Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!"

Many persons seize upon this text as an allegedly "unanswerable" argument against the doctrine of the Trinity. They say, "Here the Bible says that God is one. If He is one, how can He also be three, or three in One?"

Genesis 2:24 recounts that God spoke of Adam and Eve becoming: "one flesh." What we see is a unity of a composite character which was recognized by God Himself as existing within the World He had created. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself recognized composite unity when He declared about people joined in marriage, "the two shall become one flesh" (Mark 10:8).

Further use of the term one is found in Numbers 13:23-24, where the spies returning from the land of Canaan spoke of "one cluster of grapes," which could only mean that many grapes clung from one stem, although all drew their life from the same source. We can see, then, that the word "one" may refer to a composite unity rather than merely to a solitary "one" as, in fact, scripture teaches it does.

It's all so right when you look at scripture in light of ALL of scripture and don't stumble into heresy as those who hold to Oneness Doctrine have done with the persons of the one true God.

The Bible has many teaches without expressing the teaching in the form of a single word. To deny what the Bible teaches on this ground IS to err by way of fallacy and incorrectly handle the Word of God in truth. Here are some examples:

Atheism is the teaching that there is no God. "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1). Obviously atheism exists even though we cannot find the word atheism in the Bible.

Divinity which means divine quality or godlike character. The Bible clearly speaks godlike quality of the Lord God (See Psalm 139 for example), yet the word Divinity is not found anywhere in the Bible.

Incarnation which means the word (God) who became flesh. This is definitely taught in the Bible (John 1:1,14), yet the word incarnation is not found in the Bible.

Monotheism is the teaching that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:8) yet the word monotheism is not found in the Bible.

People who make this sort of argument that the word Trinity is not found in the Bible therefore there is no Trinity or committing a logical fallacy and proceeding to mishandle God's Word in this way.

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