[18+ please] I have a question, it is in relation to sexual relations

[DavidLOVESsnow]

So I put this in Bible study because it relates to sodomy. I will get to that in a minute, but basically this post is for people 18+. If you are not 18+ I advise you do not read any further.









Anyways, here is my main problem. I have a question. Im going to be very blatant when I say it so I apologize if it is bad but I have been researching this non-stop. Is it bad for your wife to masturbate you? There, I said it.

I don't know if it is Sodomy or not. When reading the Bible it has a lot of things that the people of Sodom did. But it isn't 100% like "they all did this and this". It just gives reasons pertaining to their destruction, but nothing 100% specific [or atleast in my understanding]. So out of safety, I always just assumed it was Sodomy. However, people have argued a couple of things that started to get me thinking.

First of all, in the position that it is bad, semen is called the seed of copulation. T

Another position used is the story of Onan, but as many have shown, Onan was killed for not impregnating her, not just spilling his seed. If you want to add or debate that, go ahead.

In position that it is okay, something was brought up to me that I never thought of. And that was, the female orgasim. If semen is the seed of copulation, and if it is spilled it is bad. Then what about female ejaculate? It isnt called the seed of copulation.

In disagreement with the argument here--^, you can cite how homosexuality is in the OT and say, does it mean that only men cant be homosexual?

The second last argument is about pre-ejaculation. If someone accidently has an orgasim within their pants before sex, is that sinful? Would that be sodomy or no?

The last argument being wet-dreams. People have an orgasm as they sleep with no will of their own. Is that sinful?





So I just want a 100%, concrete answer. Bible quotes are a necessity on this one please or atleast dictionary definitions that correlate. I'd really appreciate any answer to this.

 

[Animus]

I'm not sure if this sort of post is allowed in the forums, but I remember Mark Driscoll talked about this and wrote a book and everyone got real mad at him so you might want to look into that if you haven't already.
Mark Driscoll – Song of Solomon

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

I'm not sure if this sort of post is allowed in the forums, but I remember Mark Driscoll talked about this and wrote a book and everyone got real mad at him so you might want to look into that if you haven't already.
Mark Driscoll – Song of Solomon

As long as he proves it with Bible quotes im fine. Opinion is tsill opinion.

Also, I dont see why it shouldnt be allowed. Im just asking a question. It just happens to pertain to sex... there are other posts similar to this, but since my main problem is that I think it is sodomy, I posted here.

If im wrong, I think an admin will move it :/ sorry though if it is not allowed, I dont have a church and I just ask for advice on CC.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Not to be crass myself here, lol or perhaps even naive, but I am just wondering why if ye are married and have a lovely woman to be your mate that ye do all that to begin with? Why not just have sex with your wife who you obviously all ready chose to be your mate? Me personally maybe I am too jealous I be sorta offended if a woman do that to me instead of want to have sex with me and would have rather just to have waited for a more appropriate time. But meh maybe this is my single-man's naivety.

I think either way best advice is it be easier to just do what you all ready know is okay with your wife instead of something that you yourself question.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Not to be crass myself here, lol or perhaps even naive, but I am just wondering why if ye are married and have a lovely woman to be your mate that ye do all that to begin with? Why not just have sex with your wife who you obviously all ready chose to be your mate? Me personally maybe I am too jealous I be sorta offended if a woman do that to me instead of want to have sex with me and would have rather just to have waited for a more appropriate time. But meh maybe this is my single-man's naivety.

I think either way best advice is it be easier to just do what you all ready know is okay with your wife instead of something that you yourself question.

A few problems:

1) she has atopy. It is a skin disease that is hereditary. Basically, her kid is guaranteed or very likely to get it. She doesnt want to risk her kid going through what she has went through [If I showed you the pictures of her last summer... you'd understand]. Basically, she doesn't want our child to go through suffering.

2) Im against birth control. I dont want an aborted child or a child to feel any pain. If we had sex and accidently had a child, then we'd have to keep it. I wouldn't let it get aborted.

3) Financial reasons. I can BARELY afford school and her, if we had a kid we'd both have to drop out. Besides the fact money is tight enough already.

4) The world. We both know how evil the world is. We also see how people we know and used to know, or our family members are affected by the satanic culture. My fiance does NOT want to have a kid and see it grow up and become against God. It would kill her.

On a final note, we arent 100% married yet so we wont be doing any of this... yet. But my question is, is it allowed once married?

 

[AslanII]

Hi there

I think you should review your stance on birthcontrol. From your post it seems that you really don't want kids, but once you are married you will understand that you can't just stop having sex from fear of falling pregnant, and on the other hand "accidents" do happen. As far as your wife stimulating you is concerned: go for it. We Christians are very narrow minded concerning sex. It is a special thing, but also as natural as eating. The Scriptures you put in is in the old testament and we are now in a new covenant. God put those rules there for a group of people in a specific time in history. That doesn't make it law for us now. Once married you can do anything sexual with your wife as long as both of you are comfortable with what you are doing. If you are going to spiritualize sex you will never enjoy it.

 

[Animus]

I really don't want to get involved in this post, but after reading the above post I have to disagree. Christian's are the only ones that are remotely sensible about sex. DavidLOVESsnow is asking what the bible says, which is what we should always do about anything regardless of how we might feel about it. I am not saying that it is right or wrong, though it is one or the other, all I am saying that DavidLOVESsnow is going about this in the right way. If unenjoyable sex happens to be the only moral sex then as Christian's we must obey, but I don't imagine this is the reality.

 

[Hashe]

Sodom is not masturbation. It is anal sex.
There is nothing wrong, biblically speaking, about married people mutually masturbating.
Onanism, is a Catholic doctrine which says it is wrong to masturbate because ejaculation should be about reproduction. This is not what the passage on Onan is about. In early Jewish culture if a man dies without leaving children, the dead man's brother should try and give the widow a child. The widow would raise this child, as a child of the dead man - not as the dead man's brother's child. Onan didn't want to do this. That was the problem.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

@david

Interesting reasons, this leads to much clearer understanding though indeed. Heh in fact besides the first 1 not applying to me I see many of those reasons why I just abstain from dating lol.

Hmm, the way I see it though if you are going to be married having kids is part of that equation. Here's what are my thoughts on your 4 Points. Remember jsut my opinion, by all means you should consider all Christian advice, especially the elders older and more experienced than I. Also understand you yourself say you're not married yet so be a lil optimistic that you got a lil bit of time to possibly settle out some of these problems.

1. This I perceive is your biggest worry and her biggest worry really. However ye know not if she will even conceive or if the baby if she were to conceive would have the skin disease. Also to be quite honest I am ignorant of this disease and thus I must reasearch this skin disease some more. However even without knowing it I'd say if your woman could live to be loved by ye than your baby be okay even if such a thing happen.

2. Aye the birth control I am against some of it. I think a lot of it disrupts the natural female body and maybe even the children, this is in reference to pills or any of that sort of chemical stuff that affects hormones. Condoms and the such that doesn't have an affect on the body I am not too sure on where that stands in the Bible and would say probably try to get further advice on someone more knowledgeable. Good on you for your stance on abortion and resolve to raise the child if pregnancy does happen either way.

3. Aye financial times be tough, but meh, everyone thinks they'll live on the white picket fantasy, I admit this is the biggest fantasy in my own mind. If ye were to have a kid even in your current financial situation don't despair if times starts out rough. My parents raised me in a lil apartment first few years of my life and my pops had about no money due to debt growing up. Money ain't as important as some think it is.

4. Aye the world is evil indeed but yet there are still good people upon its face and Jesus still saves people every day. This is really the most vast of topics I could go on for of course it afflcits me as much as you. It is harder for me to answer on this because of my own walk and my current paradox. However I would say if you have chosen marriage then it is okay for you to have kids and be happy with your wife.

Way I see it whenever in doubt, keep as simple as possible. It is more simple to just do what you know all ready to be okay with your wife than it is to do something you yourself question. Perhaps honestly maybe even ask her, naturally she's your other half and should her opinion should be more valuable to you than mine in these matters. You seem okay to me by the way, hard obstacles no doubt, but I'd say don't over-worry yourself, you be okay.

 

[doseofreality]

There are plenty of married couples who choose not to have kids.
If you are against using the "pill" there are plenty other forms of contraception, so no need to abstain from sex.
As far as masturbation and/or oral sex, I don't see how that can be considered sinful in the bible if between two consenting married adults.

 

[Timeline]

Sodom is not masturbation. It is anal sex.
There is nothing wrong, biblically speaking, about married people mutually masturbating.
Onanism, is a Catholic doctrine which says it is wrong to masturbate because ejaculation should be about reproduction. This is not what the passage on Onan is about. In early Jewish culture if a man dies without leaving children, the dead man's brother should try and give the widow a child. The widow would raise this child, as a child of the dead man - not as the dead man's brother's child. Onan didn't want to do this. That was the problem.

I agree, but Onan did have sex (from what I understand was for his own enjoyment) and then did not carry through with his godly obligation. It would have been more acceptable for him to just say that he did not want to give his brother any children.

 

[Nautilus]

No its not wrong. Neither is half the other stuff mentioned as wrong in this post. Its mostly christians with a very stunted view of human sexuality due to growing up in a church system that views sexuality as taboo instead of something to be cherished in a marriage.

 

[Timeline]

I have wondered about this myself. While I find it digusting (that is to say without need of scripture to tell me) to sleep with another man or animal, some people don't seem to feel the same way and need those scriptures to tell them that it is wrong. Or maybe they do but have given themselves over to wickedness. Anyway, the bible doesn't really discuss masturbation (by self or with partner) but does tell us not to lust after someone that is not our partner. I understand where you are coming from because we have four kids and do not want anymore (although we would love them if they were to come along). I am not crazy about birth control and we do not use it. But sex would be a bit more enjoyable if we could finish properly. Pray and make sure that you are right with God. Paul says that if you consider something to be wrong then for you it is wrong but he also says that if you are going to sin then marry. He says to marry so that you can have sex and still be pleasing to God. Good luck in your search for answers.

 

[Cobus]

My friend God has your answer in the Bible.... First I am reminded of the naughty Onan that had to make his elder brother's wife preagnant, but he wasted the seed on the ground. And this thing he did DISPLEASED the Lord. Gen 38:9.

And about her (your wife) "illness". God healed ALL sickness when He was here, I remember the woman with the bleeding on her private parts. The moment she touched the lord's garment she was healed. Even though no doctor could heal her. May God give you the same He gave Paul... that even your clothes will heal the sick, INCLUDING your wife. Read James 5 about how to hel ANY sickness, even when Doctors cannot God can.

And then I am reminded of what Paul teach us in these times.... 1 Cor 7. It is the truth that even a fast from sex is still a form of fasting, and all fasting for the Lord is a way to get closer to God. Read 1 Cor 7 about this. I pray Father will wise you up, and give you peace and strength.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

My friend God has your answer in the Bible.... First I am reminded of the naughty Onan that had to make his elder brother's wife preagnant, but he wasted the seed on the ground. And this thing he did DISPLEASED the Lord. Gen 38:9.

And about her (your wife) "illness". God healed ALL sickness when He was here, I remember the woman with the bleeding on her private parts. The moment she touched the lord's garment she was healed. Even though no doctor could heal her. May God give you the same He gave Paul... that even your clothes will heal the sick, INCLUDING your wife. Read James 5 about how to hel ANY sickness, even when Doctors cannot God can.

And then I am reminded of what Paul teach us in these times.... 1 Cor 7. It is the truth that even a fast from sex is still a form of fasting, and all fasting for the Lord is a way to get closer to God. Read 1 Cor 7 about this. I pray Father will wise you up, and give you peace and strength.

I think you over-simplify things. Also, I think you forget about something else in the Bible, which I will quote after.

Firstly, Onanism isn't just about spilling his seed. When you look at the story, he did these few things:

1) He went against what God wanted him to do aka giving his brother's wife a child
2) He had sex with her, but did not fulfill the duty and just spilled his seed.

So you have to think that it isnt as simple as masturbation. Especially when God goes indepth on other issues. If you can put masturbation, or other things under the category of sodomy [others claim its anal sex], then I can understand. As for the story of Onan, I disagree with you.

Now, as to this issue I wont lie to you, I am offended by your response. So I will try my best to not be aggressive or try to revile. In a way, yes my fiance was healed. She still has the disease, it will never go away. However she has a maintenance so to speak that keeps her skin from not peeling off and causing her pain. She prayed a lot last summer while she was in severe pain, and it eventually came true. It took half a year though. You cant, in my honest opinion, just say to someone you'll be fine have faith. I don't think it's right. I would suggest you read this please:

James 2:14-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

It is innevitable that our child will have her disease. We will not have sex because of this. I am honestly trying to find other ways we can be sexual without having to have sex.

 

[john832]

Onan broke the Levirate Law. It had nothing to do with birth control, it was rebellion against God.

 

[Cobus]

My response was GLOVES ON. Why would God give us the organs if hands were enough? And I did not write the Bible I only believe what is written. Obviously doctors has no cure as you would have used it by now. But just becasue your fiance is not healed when you prayed for it does not mean James 5 is not true.

I did not even mention the word FAITH yet you are offended by it? How come? You say I cannot say to someone they will be fine.. That is not what I said neither... James says this... Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

So I guess I am asking you, were your elders there to annoint your fiance and did THEY pray with faith? Look what James says.. the prayer of faith SHALL save the sick. And you ay it shall NEVER go away. Is that what we should do? Say that James and elders even how strong in FAITH cannot heal her? Well sorry, I can NEVER give up on God. NEVER!

I believe God and His Word and HE says... If you say her disease shall NEVER go away God is a lier... Casue the prophets and the New Testament confirms this.... Matthew 8:17... That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.


I do not type this to offend you, but to bless you. With the TRUTH of God. There is NO illment that Jesus cannot heal. He HIMSELF took our infirmities and bear our sicknesses. I still pray God will wise you up and bless you with the gift of healing. And you have a shortcoming of a spiritual nature. You try to bargain with God for sex. God made sex for reproduction and ALL ungodly sex is evil.

Masterbation? Evil or not? It is filthy and messy and very unhigenic. So that should suggest already that there is something UNNATURAL about it. And this is what God says about unnatural love/making... Romans 1. i find no place in the Bible except maybe David and the beauty contest that is remotely to the sexual misconduct that we have today. Sex is NOT SO IMPORTANT.

My wife and I went without it for two years we were NEVER closer to God than that time. And since a woman in natural sicles has a GO FOR IT time without falling preagnant God shows us that even He understand out needs. Nope I think NATURAL is only ONE WAY and that is God's way. I hope you understnad that I love the Word of God, and I really hope God answers you with Scripture so you can be sure, and ENLIGHTENED when you make your discision. Waht ever it may be, I hpe God looks down on you and say... Behold my faithful servant, in whom I am well pleased.

 

[Nautilus]

I think you over-simplify things. Also, I think you forget about something else in the Bible, which I will quote after.

Firstly, Onanism isn't just about spilling his seed. When you look at the story, he did these few things:

1) He went against what God wanted him to do aka giving his brother's wife a child
2) He had sex with her, but did not fulfill the duty and just spilled his seed.

So you have to think that it isnt as simple as masturbation. Especially when God goes indepth on other issues. If you can put masturbation, or other things under the category of sodomy [others claim its anal sex], then I can understand. As for the story of Onan, I disagree with you.

Now, as to this issue I wont lie to you, I am offended by your response. So I will try my best to not be aggressive or try to revile. In a way, yes my fiance was healed. She still has the disease, it will never go away. However she has a maintenance so to speak that keeps her skin from not peeling off and causing her pain. She prayed a lot last summer while she was in severe pain, and it eventually came true. It took half a year though. You cant, in my honest opinion, just say to someone you'll be fine have faith. I don't think it's right. I would suggest you read this please:

James 2:14-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15[/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

It is innevitable that our child will have her disease. We will not have sex because of this. I am honestly trying to find other ways we can be sexual without having to have sex.

Are condoms honestly out of the question? It seems a little extreme to be going that far.