Muslim Christian debate (freindly) on the divinity of jesus
- Thread starter Bismillah
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Freindly discussions are great! 
but i feel no matter what denomination, if we have a strong belief in god we must keep our eyes wide open to the fact that SOME debates can go round in a circle and bring fustration and confusion i think calm disscusions through the love of christ is best, and its essential that we know when to draw the line godbless you and tek care
but i feel no matter what denomination, if we have a strong belief in god we must keep our eyes wide open to the fact that SOME debates can go round in a circle and bring fustration and confusion i think calm disscusions through the love of christ is best, and its essential that we know when to draw the line godbless you and tek care the Deity Of Christ
Who can forgive sin? God!!!!!Mr 2:3And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.Mr 2:4And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.Mr 2:5When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.Mr 2:6But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,Mr 2:7Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?Mr 2:8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?Mr 2:9Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?Mr 2:10But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)Mr 2:11I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.Mr 2:12And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
And not only did Jesus say this, But God the father said in. Heb 1:8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
well let me help alittle bit more then maybe you should pray that God/ Jesus give you wisdom concerning His Word.
Re 1:8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.Re 1:9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.Re 1:10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,Re 1:11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.Re 1:12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;Re 1:13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.Re 1:14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;Re 1:15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.Re 1:16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.Re 1:17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:Re 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
sorry for all the scriptures but you asked,. here take note in verse 17-18 the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last , the Almighty ( verse 8 ) God was dead! when Did God the Father, Jehova , the Creator die? When He, Jesus, was on the Cross as He gave His life for you and me!!!!
some religions will tell us that Jesus was not God but mere a prophet or some will say that He was a great teacher, But I say according to these scripture I have posted If He says He is God But is not then He is a blasphemer, and We shouldn't even follow His teachings. IF He is Not all that He says He is. But I say that He was, is and will be all that He said He was, is, and will be. And that He also spoke to truth when He said:
Joh 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Not a way , But the only way, unto the Father.
Another thought on this is many will say that all religions are true and that there is many paths into heaven, but If one religion stands and says that it is the only Way as the Christianity religion says, Then all religion can't be true .
RELIGION, n. relij''on. [L. religio, from religo, to bind anew; re and ligo, to bind. This word seems originally to have signified an oath or vow to the gods, or the obligation of such an oath or vow, which was held very sacred by the Romans.]
1. Religion, in its most comprehensive sense, includes a belief in the being and perfections of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man''s obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man''s accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties. It therefore comprehends theology, as a system of doctrines or principles, as well as practical piety; for the practice of moral duties without a belief in a divine lawgiver, and without reference to his will or commands, is not religion.
2. Religion, as distinct from theology, is godliness or real piety in practice, consisting in the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men, in obedience to divine command, or from love to God and his law. James 1.
3. Religion, as distinct from virtue, or morality, consists in the performance of the duties we owe directly to God, from a principle of obedience to his will. Hence we often speak of religion and virtue, as different branches of one system, or the duties of the first and second tables of the law.
Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion.
4. Any system of faith and worship. In this sense, religion comprehends the belief and worship of pagans and Mohammedans, as well as of christians; any religion consisting in the belief of a superior power or powers governing the world, and in the worship of such power or powers. Thus we speak of the religion of the Turks, of the Hindoos, of the Indians, &c. as well as of the christian religion. We speak of false religion, as well as of true religion.
Christianity is a religion and Jesus is My God
Who can forgive sin? God!!!!!Mr 2:3And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.Mr 2:4And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.Mr 2:5When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.Mr 2:6But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,Mr 2:7Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?Mr 2:8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?Mr 2:9Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?Mr 2:10But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)Mr 2:11I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.Mr 2:12And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
And not only did Jesus say this, But God the father said in. Heb 1:8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
well let me help alittle bit more then maybe you should pray that God/ Jesus give you wisdom concerning His Word.
Re 1:8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.Re 1:9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.Re 1:10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,Re 1:11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.Re 1:12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;Re 1:13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.Re 1:14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;Re 1:15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.Re 1:16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.Re 1:17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:Re 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
sorry for all the scriptures but you asked,. here take note in verse 17-18 the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last , the Almighty ( verse 8 ) God was dead! when Did God the Father, Jehova , the Creator die? When He, Jesus, was on the Cross as He gave His life for you and me!!!!
some religions will tell us that Jesus was not God but mere a prophet or some will say that He was a great teacher, But I say according to these scripture I have posted If He says He is God But is not then He is a blasphemer, and We shouldn't even follow His teachings. IF He is Not all that He says He is. But I say that He was, is and will be all that He said He was, is, and will be. And that He also spoke to truth when He said:
Joh 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Not a way , But the only way, unto the Father.
Another thought on this is many will say that all religions are true and that there is many paths into heaven, but If one religion stands and says that it is the only Way as the Christianity religion says, Then all religion can't be true .
RELIGION, n. relij''on. [L. religio, from religo, to bind anew; re and ligo, to bind. This word seems originally to have signified an oath or vow to the gods, or the obligation of such an oath or vow, which was held very sacred by the Romans.]
1. Religion, in its most comprehensive sense, includes a belief in the being and perfections of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man''s obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man''s accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties. It therefore comprehends theology, as a system of doctrines or principles, as well as practical piety; for the practice of moral duties without a belief in a divine lawgiver, and without reference to his will or commands, is not religion.
2. Religion, as distinct from theology, is godliness or real piety in practice, consisting in the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men, in obedience to divine command, or from love to God and his law. James 1.
3. Religion, as distinct from virtue, or morality, consists in the performance of the duties we owe directly to God, from a principle of obedience to his will. Hence we often speak of religion and virtue, as different branches of one system, or the duties of the first and second tables of the law.
Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion.
4. Any system of faith and worship. In this sense, religion comprehends the belief and worship of pagans and Mohammedans, as well as of christians; any religion consisting in the belief of a superior power or powers governing the world, and in the worship of such power or powers. Thus we speak of the religion of the Turks, of the Hindoos, of the Indians, &c. as well as of the christian religion. We speak of false religion, as well as of true religion.
Christianity is a religion and Jesus is My God
John quotes Jesus as saying: “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28)
The Gospel of Luke also reveals that Jesus had limited knowledge. Luke says that Jesus increased in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
In Hebrews too (Hebrews 5:8) we read that Jesus learned obedience.
But God’s knowledge and wisdom is always perfect, and God does not learn new things.
So, if Jesus learned something new, that proves that he did not know everything before that, and thus he was not God.
Can he become God later? No! Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting (see Psalms 90:2
Someone may say that Jesus was God but he took the form of a servant and therefore became limited. Well, that would mean that God changed. But God does not change. God said so according to Malachi 3:6.
Jesus never was God, and never will be. In the Bible, God declares: “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10).
The Gospel of Luke also reveals that Jesus had limited knowledge. Luke says that Jesus increased in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
In Hebrews too (Hebrews 5:8) we read that Jesus learned obedience.
But God’s knowledge and wisdom is always perfect, and God does not learn new things.
So, if Jesus learned something new, that proves that he did not know everything before that, and thus he was not God.
Can he become God later? No! Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting (see Psalms 90:2
Someone may say that Jesus was God but he took the form of a servant and therefore became limited. Well, that would mean that God changed. But God does not change. God said so according to Malachi 3:6.
Jesus never was God, and never will be. In the Bible, God declares: “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10).
People forget this and they say that Jesus is equal to the Father.
Whom should we believe — Jesus or the people? Muslims and Christians agree that God is self-existent.
This means that He does not derive his existence from anyone. Yet John tells us that Jesus’ existence is caused by the Father.
Jesus said in this Gospel: “
I live because of the Father (John 6:57)
Whom should we believe — Jesus or the people? Muslims and Christians agree that God is self-existent.
This means that He does not derive his existence from anyone. Yet John tells us that Jesus’ existence is caused by the Father.
Jesus said in this Gospel: “
I live because of the Father (John 6:57)
S
What so many REFUSE to understand is that when Jesus walked this earth it was for the sake of mankind's redemption. He BECAME flesh. It was ONLY in the limits of flesh that many of these things make sense. Jesus pre-existed the flesh as the Word... who was in the beginning, who was WITH God and who WAS God.
Jesus was in full submission to the Father for our sake. The inspired writers referred to Jesus as God and/or acknowledge divine attributes in him. Jesus is eternal and immortal in his original state. When he became flesh, that part of him that was human he will to die as atonement for us. But he rose again on the 3rd day never to die again.
The concept of Father and Son was only true of their relationship because of the scheme of redemption. And in that agreed to arrangement the Father is in the lead. Only in that sense is the Father greater; Jesus is the one who was sent and as such he was doing the will of the Father.
Hebrews 1:8
"But to the Son He says, Your throne Oh God is forever and ever."
Jesus was in full submission to the Father for our sake. The inspired writers referred to Jesus as God and/or acknowledge divine attributes in him. Jesus is eternal and immortal in his original state. When he became flesh, that part of him that was human he will to die as atonement for us. But he rose again on the 3rd day never to die again.
The concept of Father and Son was only true of their relationship because of the scheme of redemption. And in that agreed to arrangement the Father is in the lead. Only in that sense is the Father greater; Jesus is the one who was sent and as such he was doing the will of the Father.
Hebrews 1:8
"But to the Son He says, Your throne Oh God is forever and ever."
John 10:30 is often used as proof that Jesus is God because Jesus said, “I and the father are one.”
But, if you read the next six verses, you will find Jesus explaining that his enemies were wrong to think that he was claiming to be God.
What Jesus obviously means here is that he is one with the Father in purpose.
Jesus also prayed that his disciples should be one just as Jesus and the Father are one.
Obviously, he was not praying that all his disciples should somehow merge into one individual
(see John 17:11 and 22). And when Luke reports that the disciples were all one,
Luke does not mean that they became one single human being, but that they shared a common purpose
although they were separate beings (see Acts 4:32). In terms of essence, Jesus and the Father are two, for Jesus said they are two witnesses
(John 8:14-18). They have to be two, since one is greater than the other (see John 14:28).
When Jesus prayed to be saved from the cross, he said: “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
(Luke 22:42).
But, if you read the next six verses, you will find Jesus explaining that his enemies were wrong to think that he was claiming to be God.
What Jesus obviously means here is that he is one with the Father in purpose.
Jesus also prayed that his disciples should be one just as Jesus and the Father are one.
Obviously, he was not praying that all his disciples should somehow merge into one individual
(see John 17:11 and 22). And when Luke reports that the disciples were all one,
Luke does not mean that they became one single human being, but that they shared a common purpose
although they were separate beings (see Acts 4:32). In terms of essence, Jesus and the Father are two, for Jesus said they are two witnesses
(John 8:14-18). They have to be two, since one is greater than the other (see John 14:28).
When Jesus prayed to be saved from the cross, he said: “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
(Luke 22:42).
S
Your interpretation of John 10 is completely wrong. Jesus shows how illogical it is to not get what he is saying. If those to whom the word came could be called gods, then how much more the very one specifically sent. As the Son he shares the same nature and purpose. He pre-existed with and WAS God.
You refuse to understand the arrangement for man's redemption. All of the language and verses to which you point must be understood in light of God's plan. The Word became flesh in order to provide atonement. His role in his earthly ministry was as the Prophet.
The greater and lesser language is about their arrangement in the scheme of redemption, not about their inherent value.
You are willfully ignoring the nature of the language of two being one. Marriage is two individuals becoming one flesh, but they do not merge into a single individual. In marriage the man and woman have unity (oneness), diversity (person), and equality (value). But that does not mean that one is not the head to which the other submits.
You refuse to understand the arrangement for man's redemption. All of the language and verses to which you point must be understood in light of God's plan. The Word became flesh in order to provide atonement. His role in his earthly ministry was as the Prophet.
The greater and lesser language is about their arrangement in the scheme of redemption, not about their inherent value.
You are willfully ignoring the nature of the language of two being one. Marriage is two individuals becoming one flesh, but they do not merge into a single individual. In marriage the man and woman have unity (oneness), diversity (person), and equality (value). But that does not mean that one is not the head to which the other submits.
We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...” (Acts 5:29-30)
Were they lacking the Holy Spirit? No! They were supported by the Holy Spirit
(see Acts 2:3, 4:8, and 5:32). They were simply teaching what they had learnt from Jesus —
that Jesus was not God but, rather, God’s servant and Christ.
John tells us that Jesus cannot do anything by his own when he quotes Jesus as saying:
“By myself I can do nothing..
God did extraordinary miracles through others too, but that does not make the others God (see Acts 19:11).
Why, then, is Jesus taken for God? Even when Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from the dead,
he had to ask God to do it. Lazarus’ sister, Martha, knew this, for she said to Jesus:
you are determined to kill me,
a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” (John 8:40)
Were they lacking the Holy Spirit? No! They were supported by the Holy Spirit
(see Acts 2:3, 4:8, and 5:32). They were simply teaching what they had learnt from Jesus —
that Jesus was not God but, rather, God’s servant and Christ.
John tells us that Jesus cannot do anything by his own when he quotes Jesus as saying:
“By myself I can do nothing..
God did extraordinary miracles through others too, but that does not make the others God (see Acts 19:11).
Why, then, is Jesus taken for God? Even when Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from the dead,
he had to ask God to do it. Lazarus’ sister, Martha, knew this, for she said to Jesus:
you are determined to kill me,
a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” (John 8:40)
well I always Believe Jesus which is God over man whom do you believe Bismillah do you believe Jesus over the Muslims when Jesus says
Joh 5:18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself EQUAL WITH GOD.
or do you believe the new testament when it says :
Php 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:Php 2:6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:Php 2:7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:Php 2:8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Php 2:9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:Php 2:10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;Php 2:11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
which as the Jews said to be equal with God would make Him God
T
I think this whole concept will be simplified for you Bismallah if you see that we cannot go to or see God except through Jesus! Seek out and pray to understand what that means, and then all the scriptures will start making sense....You are experiencing the spiritual problems in the shift...you are looking at the physical Jesus and trying to find the spiritual Jesus; search for the spiritual Jesus and let him show you who he is (both God and himself)...if you resist and insist on doing it the other way you can't help but stumble...Nothing about his physical reality will proove his spiritual existence unless He shows himself to you.
Sincerely wait and pray...not any words you make up and not as though you are seeking anything but the Lord
tony
Sincerely wait and pray...not any words you make up and not as though you are seeking anything but the Lord
tony
A
lol i didnt read the posts.. but i tell you, FRIENDLY OR NOT - this debate doesnt make sense at all!
CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS -- are such different groups of people :
number 1 reason is: christians believe the bible - muslims believe the quoran (however u spell it)
now from that reason alone - the debate's gonna be pointless, take this as an example
2 families. familes A and B
now baby A (from family A) talks to baby B (from family B)
baby boy A: daddy told me not to talk to strangers
baby B: you're wrong coz daddy told me to love strangers
baby boy A: YOU are wrong, coz daddy told me not to
and it goes on and on...and its just pointless (well at least thats just for me)
CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS -- are such different groups of people :
number 1 reason is: christians believe the bible - muslims believe the quoran (however u spell it)
now from that reason alone - the debate's gonna be pointless, take this as an example
2 families. familes A and B
now baby A (from family A) talks to baby B (from family B)
baby boy A: daddy told me not to talk to strangers
baby B: you're wrong coz daddy told me to love strangers
baby boy A: YOU are wrong, coz daddy told me not to
and it goes on and on...and its just pointless (well at least thats just for me)
A
amen
i dont see any reason to continue a debate like this, is it just for information? referrence? now what christian would need references from books against Christ? and what muslim would listen to information against islam?
thats from the views of a non-christian... (if i wasnt a christian that would be the first thing that comes to mind when i see debates like this)
now i am a christian - what would i think of this debate?? don't i get hurt listening to things people say to turn down God's Word?
i dont see any reason to continue a debate like this, is it just for information? referrence? now what christian would need references from books against Christ? and what muslim would listen to information against islam?
thats from the views of a non-christian... (if i wasnt a christian that would be the first thing that comes to mind when i see debates like this)
now i am a christian - what would i think of this debate?? don't i get hurt listening to things people say to turn down God's Word?
