Muslim Christian debate (freindly) on the divinity of jesus

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,043
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#61
The Koran was copied from the Holy Bible...thus, it must agree that Jesus is God.
Except it doesn't. For Muslims, to say God has a Son is shirk (sin, forbidden, polytheism, blasphemy).
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
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#62
I would say it's possible for Jesus to be who Christians claim, it seems for the most part the Qur'an agrees.
Did you sign up to CC just to make that comment?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#64
Noticed the Koran skipped over the death of Christ...the very lynch pin of our sin problem. The Koran denies that Christ died for our sins.

Nor did he mention that the Koran says the Word became flesh./

No conversion unless he went to the bible for the saving truth.
 
C

coby

Guest
#65
Noticed the Koran skipped over the death of Christ...the very lynch pin of our sin problem. The Koran denies that Christ died for our sins.

Nor did he mention that the Koran says the Word became flesh./

No conversion unless he went to the bible for the saving truth.
He did. The whole story is also on youtube, but I think it's great that he came to Christ by reading the Quran.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#66
He did. The whole story is also on youtube, but I think it's great that he came to Christ by reading the Quran.
How could he? He must have gone elsewhere to hear the full Gospel. Again the Koran denies Issa died for our sins. It's a different Jesus the Koran presents.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#67
Except it doesn't. For Muslims, to say God has a Son is shirk (sin, forbidden, polytheism, blasphemy).
What's sad is that not only have Muslims mis-interpreted their own scriptures...but the fact that they have convinced Christians that the Koran states this lie.

What it really says...


Creation ex-nihilo by the Son
وقالوا اتخذ الله ولدا سبحنه بل له ما في السموت
والأرض كل له قنتون بديع السموت والأرض وإذا قضى أمرا فإنما يقول له كن فيكون

Waqaloo itakhatha Allahu waladan subhanahu bal lahu ma fee alssamawati waal-ardi kullun lahu qanitoona badeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu

And they said:" “allah” he has taken a Son, glory be to Him, much more certainly His that which(is)in the heavens and the earth, all are certainly obedient unto Him.” Originator (of)the heavens and the earth and when commanded entirely by (the) Word, so only certainly Him, He says: "Be thou." so (it) is. (2.116 – 117)



These ayahs not only confirm that Jesus Christ is the Son, with the glory being unto Him (subhanahu), but that the entire Universe was originated (badeeAAu) by the Son and His powerful Word.
 
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Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,321
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#68
My understanding of islam is that it teaches a blatant disregard fir womens rights. Under sharia law, it is permissable to rape a woman if she is not wearing the proper covering
 
Jul 4, 2015
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#69
We True Christians believe that Jesus IS God.

John 3:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

The Muslims believe that Jesus is not God, that He is only a Prophet and a minor Prophet at that. They do not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. They reject Jesus.

John 3:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God. Therefore Muslims are condemned.

John 3:19-20
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

Muslims practice evil because they hate the Light which is Jesus Christ.
 
C

coby

Guest
#70
How could he? He must have gone elsewhere to hear the full Gospel. Again the Koran denies Issa died for our sins. It's a different Jesus the Koran presents.
He looked for answers in the Bible since the Koran said that and later he renounced the Koran and became a christian. His family tried to kill him.
 
G

ggs7

Guest
#71
Jesus is the Son of GOD and he is alive ! :)

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last
Isaiah 48:12 I am the first, I also am the last.
Rev 1:17 Fear not; I am the first and the last
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen;

Isaiah 48:12 I am he
John 8:24 for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Mark 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.












 
Feb 9, 2010
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#72
John quotes Jesus as saying: “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28)

The Gospel of Luke also reveals that Jesus had limited knowledge. Luke says that Jesus increased in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
In Hebrews too (Hebrews 5:8) we read that Jesus learned obedience.
But God’s knowledge and wisdom is always perfect, and God does not learn new things.

So, if Jesus learned something new, that proves that he did not know everything before that, and thus he was not God.
Can he become God later? No! Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting (see Psalms 90:2
Someone may say that Jesus was God but he took the form of a servant and therefore became limited. Well, that would mean that God changed. But God does not change. God said so according to Malachi 3:6.
Jesus never was God, and never will be. In the Bible, God declares: “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10).
Jesus is a visible manifestation of the invisible God,which the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh,and Jesus is God with us,which the Old Testament says that God will come to save mankind,which the Son shall be called the mighty God,the everlasting Father.

The Bible says that the heaven,and the heaven of heavens,cannot contain God,for He is an omnipresent Spirit,so when the Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh,it means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,which the Bible says He has the Spirit without measure,and it pleased the Father that in Him all fulness should dwell,and He is the fulness of the Godhead(attributes)bodily.

That means Jesus is fully God,and fully man,and the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God,and the way the saints will have a visible relationship with the invisible God,for God glorified that body and sits on the throne in heaven,which is the throne of both God,and the Lamb(the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus).

So when Jesus said the Father is greater than I,He was speaking as a man,for He could speak either as God,or as a man,when on earth,which He told the Jews,before Abraham was,I am,speaking as God,and then said to another why call me good,for there is only one good,and that is God,speaking as a man.

Jesus is a visible manifestation of the invisible God,and the way God will have a visible relationship with the saints for eternity,where the Spirit is the invisible relationship to the saints.

But this should not surprise a Muslim,for they believe in Abraham,and God appeared to Abraham twice in human form,a visible manifestation of God.Once with 2 of His angels,which Abraham discussed Sodom and Gomorrah with Him,and once as Melchizedek,king of Salem,that is of peace,in which Abraham gave him the tenth of the spoils of war.

But whether God makes Him a body out of the dust of the earth to appear to Abraham,or make Him a body born of Mary,it is still a visible manifestation of God,but the man Christ Jesus is a permanent manifestation of God.

It is true there was no God formed after God,and Jesus is that one true God showing a visible manifestation of Himself.

The reason for this,is the Bible says there is one God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus,in which only a sinless man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf,which there has to be a sinless man to redeem mankind because of their sin condition.

No man is sinless,so God manifest Himself in the flesh,and became that sinless man,in which the Bible says that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself,which means God reconciled mankind back to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,fully God,and fully man,in harmony,which caused the Spirit to be able to be poured out on people,and all who claim Jesus as their savior,for no man comes to the Father,but by the Son,the man Christ Jesus,and are led of the Spirit,are in harmony with God,as the man Christ Jesus is in harmony with God.

Psa 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Isa 35:4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
Isa 35:5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
Isa 35:6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.

God manifest Himself in the flesh to be that sinless man,the intercessor for mankind,in which the New Testament says that God purchased the Church with His own blood,and laid down His life for us.

Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

God said that one day the Jews would know His name,and speak to them,which Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father,and Jesus said,I have been with you all this time,and you still do not know who I am.He that has seen Me,has seen the Father.It is the Father that dwells in Me,He does the works.

Jesus is the only way we can see the invisible God,and the sinless man to reconcile us to a sinless God,and the visible relationship of God to His people for all eternity.

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Jesus has no beginning as God,but has a beginning as the man Christ Jesus,for He is fully God,and fully man.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

But one day all the world will know that Jesus is God,and all knees will bow to Him,and all tongues will confess that He is Lord,to the glory of God,the Father.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,but the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated,making Jesus,an invisible,omnipresent,God,that dwells in the light which no man can approach,and no man has seen Jesus,and no man will ever see,but He showed us a visible manifestation of Himself,because he is the one true God,and not a God formed after God.

His name was Jehovah in the Old Testament,which represents physical deliverance,when the Jews came out of Egypt,and Jesus in the New Testament,which represents spiritual salvation,for anybody,including the Muslims,that accept.

But why do Muslims not want to believe it,because they are against Jews,and do not want to believe what they say,but why fight,Muslims,and Jews,are half brothers,having Abraham as their Father,for an Arab is actually half Hebrew.
 
Jan 5, 2017
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#73
Peace be upon the followers of the Truth,
I ve gone through most of the posts by my Christian brethren on this thread, and would like to say with all sincerity that I'm really impressed with manifestation of the deep yearning to reconcile with our Creator- Almighty Allah- the Lord of Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad ( upon them all, the peace and salutations of Allah).
However, it griefs my heart that my Christian brethren are sadly towing the same steps of the Jews regarding their disbelief and rejection of the authenticity of the Messenger-hood of Christ. My Christian brethren’s disbelief in the authenticity of the messenger-hood of Muhammad, places them in the same pedestal of belying a messenger of Allah with our Jews brothers’ disbelief in Christ.
Muhammad (S.A), Jesus and Moses all thought the Scriptures that emanated from our creator-Allah. And none of the three was ever too ambitious and treacherous to arrogate to himself the divinity of Allah.
Indeed, all of the three and many more of Allah’s anointed across time and space have performed miracles by His authority to prove the source of their teaching.
All, the three and indeed, many more of Allah’s anointed across time and space have preached almost the same morals that today humanity share and hold sacred. The precepts of kindness, forgiveness, love, justice, amongst mankind, and above all the belief in the absolute and unequivocal monotheism of the Creator, fashioner, Merciful and Sustainer. This is the common brotherhood that binds all humanity across time and space.
 
Jan 5, 2017
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#74
"But this should not surprise a Muslim,for they believe in Abraham,and God appeared to Abraham twice in human form,a visible manifestation of God.Once with 2 of His angels,which Abraham discussed Sodom and Gomorrah with Him,and once as Melchizedek,king of Salem,that is of peace,in which Abraham gave him the tenth of the spoils of war."
Brother, the Qur'an never stated in these or anywhere else that Allah ever came down in human form. The personalities that visited Abraham(A.S) are Angels that came in human form, and not Allah( glory be to Him).
 
Jan 5, 2017
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#75
What's sad is that not only have Muslims mis-interpreted their own scriptures...but the fact that they have convinced Christians that the Koran states this lie.

What it really says...


Creation ex-nihilo by the Son
وقالوا اتخذ الله ولدا سبحنه بل له ما في السموت
والأرض كل له قنتون بديع السموت والأرض وإذا قضى أمرا فإنما يقول له كن فيكون

Waqaloo itakhatha Allahu waladan subhanahu bal lahu ma fee alssamawati waal-ardi kullun lahu qanitoona badeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu

And they said:" “allah” he has taken a Son, glory be to Him, much more certainly His that which(is)in the heavens and the earth, all are certainly obedient unto Him.” Originator (of)the heavens and the earth and when commanded entirely by (the) Word, so only certainly Him, He says: "Be thou." so (it) is. (2.116 – 117)



These ayahs not only confirm that Jesus Christ is the Son, with the glory being unto Him (subhanahu), but that the entire Universe was originated (badeeAAu) by the Son and His powerful Word.
@Bowman, Pls be authentic and sincere in transmitting/translating the Qur'an.
Indeed, all Arabic readers of the Qur'an understand that the word 'Glory be to Him' is addressed to Allah, and not to the statement of alluding son to Him ' And, they say, Allah has begotten a Son'. It is a stattement of negation of the blasphemy of associating an animal act in the biological charecteristics of begetting to the Almighty Creator- 'Who does not beget, and is not begotten'
(Qur'an-112:3)),

or in Suratul-Maryam-
88. And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children)
89. Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.
90. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,
91. That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allah).
92. But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allah) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children).
93. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) as a slave.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#76
Allah is not Jehovah God. Allah is an Arabic moon god appropriated by mohammed for his anti-Jewish religion. Allah is capricious and distant incapable of love or affection toward mankind. Jehovah God gave His only begotten Son to die on Calvary for the sins of mankind that He might redeem them from their fallen estate.

mohammeds bones saw corruption in death and his dust is scattered across the dry desert. Jesus rose bodily from the tomb and ascended to the right hand of Jehovah in heaven. Jesus body never saw corruption and not a single bone of His body was broken.

For the cause of Christ
Roger