Why The Modern Pentecostalist Doctrine of Speaking in Tongues is False

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D

DABEARS85

Guest
#1
#1
First of all, I'd like to state that every single denomination has some form of false man-made doctrine that really doesn't belong and shouldn't be taught. I'm focusing on one, but that doesn't justify, edify, and/or say any other denomination is better in any way. If you need to know, I'm non-denominational, because I view all denominations as a division in the church that shouldn't be there. That being said, read on.

I've thought about all of this for quite a long time, being mainly the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. For a LONG, LONG time, I pondered on why I haven't spoken in "tongues," prophesied, etc etc. I also always wondered how quite a few Pentecostal Doctrine churches specifically said a person had to speak in tongues to show proof of being baptized in the Holy Spirit and/or saved, especially since I KNEW I am and already had been saved for quite a long time. I've felt the Holy Spirit touch my life (as well as the negative kind for you who actively enjoy the gift (sometimes feels like a curse) of discernment out there), and I've never had doubts into my salvation. To add to that, many Pentecostal preachers would claim you are a spiritually "dead" Christian if you were not actively either A) Speaking in tongues B) Interpretating aforementioned gibberish tongues or C) rolling on the floor doing the chicken dance/foaming at the mouth and doing the stanky leg.

Mainly, I've come up with one distinct conclusion: A large majority of Pentecostalism is a false doctrine hypnosis emotion scam. I say this with a heavy heart, since I really don't want that to be true.

1. Speaking in Tongues - This is the most controversial aspect of all Pentecostalism, and the one that really sets them apart from almost all other denominations. Speaking in Tongues seems to be the "proof" aspect that many hold to with lockjaw. I guess, because of that, I should start here.

Matthew 7:21-24 (New International Version,
 
D

DABEARS85

Guest
#2
#2
WHY DID THIS CUT ME OFF? I had 20000 WORDS!!! dasfd;sa EDITING
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
#3
#3
DABEARS85 said:
WHY DID THIS CUT ME OFF? I had 20000 WORDS!!! dasfd;sa EDITING
Click to expand...
yay it does that....actually it did that to me about a couple of minutes ago

Shalom
 
D

DABEARS85

Guest
#4
#4
yep... still nothing... Sigh

Is there a reason why I can't post long threads anymore? I really don't want to have to post 50 replys to get my entire post down.


Anyone have any advice on how to fix this problem?

Otherwise: MOD: Please delete this thread until I can post longer than a few paragraphs. I have everything saved luckily, but I'd like to make it clear and concise, not broken down into 50+ posts.
 
Last edited:
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DABEARS85

Guest
#5
#5
Crazy4GODword said:
yay it does that....actually it did that to me about a couple of minutes ago

Shalom
Click to expand...
Yeah, I actually had to cut it down to 200k words, since it was far longer before. Even doing that, it seems CC.com doesn't like me :)
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
#6
#6
DABEARS85 said:
Yeah, I actually had to cut it down to 200k words, since it was far longer before. Even doing that, it seems CC.com doesn't like me :)
Click to expand...
I know a way to post all of it
 
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DABEARS85

Guest
#7
#7
Crazy4GODword said:
I know a way to post all of it
Click to expand...
Please divulge this information! You would be a lifesaver! I put a lot of time into doing my homework on this post, not to mention how long it took to write :)
 
D

DABEARS85

Guest
#8
#8
I've written plenty of LONG posts before, and I've never had a problem until right now. I'm not sure what the problem is?
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
#9
#9
Yay it simple and you might want to make another thread.......this one is kinda of a mess


Post the words on the post and then after you have posted it, push the bottom where it says edit that is under you post. after you push edit put the words in there again and push save and it will be there
 
D

DABEARS85

Guest
#10
#10
Thanks for the help! I was already planning on making a new thread. Thank you though! God Bless!


MODS: Please delete this thread when you get the chance.
 
D

DABEARS85

Guest
#11
#11
Crazy4GODword said:
Yay it simple and you might want to make another thread.......this one is kinda of a mess


Post the words on the post and then after you have posted it, push the bottom where it says edit that is under you post. after you push edit put the words in there again and push save and it will be there
Click to expand...
It still didn't work. Is this a bug or something? I've never had this problem before. Maybe I'll wait a day or two and try again. I have no idea what the problem is, so I'll give up unless a mod gives a solution.

Thanks for the help though.
 
L

livingbygrace

Banned
#12
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
#12
DABEARS85 said:
First of all, I'd like to state that every single denomination has some form of false man-made doctrine that really doesn't belong and shouldn't be taught. I'm focusing on one, but that doesn't justify, edify, and/or say any other denomination is better in any way. If you need to know, I'm non-denominational, because I view all denominations as a division in the church that shouldn't be there. That being said, read on.

I've thought about all of this for quite a long time, being mainly the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. For a LONG, LONG time, I pondered on why I haven't spoken in "tongues," prophesied, etc etc. I also always wondered how quite a few Pentecostal Doctrine churches specifically said a person had to speak in tongues to show proof of being baptized in the Holy Spirit and/or saved, especially since I KNEW I am and already had been saved for quite a long time. I've felt the Holy Spirit touch my life (as well as the negative kind for you who actively enjoy the gift (sometimes feels like a curse) of discernment out there), and I've never had doubts into my salvation. To add to that, many Pentecostal preachers would claim you are a spiritually "dead" Christian if you were not actively either A) Speaking in tongues B) Interpretating aforementioned gibberish tongues or C) rolling on the floor doing the chicken dance/foaming at the mouth and doing the stanky leg.

Mainly, I've come up with one distinct conclusion: A large majority of Pentecostalism is a false doctrine hypnosis emotion scam. I say this with a heavy heart, since I really don't want that to be true.

1. Speaking in Tongues - This is the most controversial aspect of all Pentecostalism, and the one that really sets them apart from almost all other denominations. Speaking in Tongues seems to be the "proof" aspect that many hold to with lockjaw. I guess, because of that, I should start here.

Matthew 7:21-24 (New International Version,
Click to expand...



I was brought up in a Pentecostal. church. There was no rolling around on the floor, but obviously they believed in speaking in tongues along with the other gifts of the spirit.
I was at this church from the age of 10.

I remember many times on youth holidays with the church going forward to sit on a wooden bench in a giant marquee to be prayed for to receive and speak in tongues, I never did. I sat there and braced myself for a surge of power to rush thorugh me as if I had been hit by a ten ton truck and was being knocked off my feet, but nothing ever happened(this was what some led us to believe being filled would be like), I always went away dispirited. Sometimes we were told we were not ready to receive(not scriptiural)
And so I felt I was not worthy/good enough to speak in tongues and be baptised in the spirit(again not scriptural) Actually during my teenage years I felt I was just plain not good enough to be a Christian at all, I coul
dn't live anywhere near as good a life as I perceived people to be living in the church I went to. They said they stood full square on the inerrant word of God and I believed them.

I gave up with Giod when I was fifteen. I had tried so hard to live a good life for God and failed miserably, and that I believed was why I had never spoken in tongues.
Fortunately for me when I was nineteen my life was in a mess, I returned to God, and fortunately as well someone asked me if I would read a certain book, I agreed.

I was amazed. I learned that you don't receive if you are 'good enough. And for the first time in my life I read and knew of the grace in the Bible. And so I asked God to be filled with his Spirit, and I stood on faith that I might speak in tongues, and I did.
But of course I had a nagging doubt that I could really speak in tongues. I smoked and was not living the life that had been pumelled from the pulpit week after week. In other words I had my faults and frailties and things that needed dealing with in my life, buut it seemed what mattered most to God was not my perfection, but I was standing on faitrh in his son for the first time, noit my own persoinal goodness.
The next yerar I went to a church service. A well known Evangelist was preaching. I had never met them befpore in my life.After the service a few of us went out for prayer into a side room. They prayed with me and told me much about my life, I was amazed, and they also confirmed I could speak/pray in tongues.

In Englasnd you hacve two Pentecostal denominations Elim and Assemblies of God(AOG) I was brought up in AOG. TYhey say you MUST speak in tongues as evidence of being filled/baptised in the spirit, Elim say you do not have to. They tried once to unite as one single Pentecostal denomination but this issue stopped them
I wish now I had been brought up in the Elim church!

I am genuinely sorry if in your life you hjave been caused pain by this issue, I can assure you I have too in many ways.

One last point. Don't let people tell you you are not saved or cannot be siure of your salvation if you don't speak in tongues. I would say get out of such a church and fast. You see I was led to believe that you couldn't really be a Christian if you smoked when I was a teenager. I was convinced smokming would on its own send me to hell by the looks and words I received from members of the church of my youth. But then I spoke in tongues and still smoked, so God's priorities are often not man's

I learnt a valuable lesson thet day. Man will often lay greater demands on you than will God, And just because a church says it stands full square on scripture does not mean it does.

Never just go by a minister. Read your bible, and if the minister is saying something different from what the Bible says, GET OUT OF THE CHURCH!
 
J

juliet84

Guest
#13
#13
DABEARS85 said:
WHY DID THIS CUT ME OFF? I had 20000 WORDS!!! dasfd;sa EDITING
Click to expand...
next time, before you click post message, copy and paste everything first, then if you miss any words, try edit, and paste anything you've missed...
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#14
#14
speaking in tongues in itself is not fake

however, there are MANY gifts of the spirit, and not all are given the same gift (now that would be boring, wouldn't it?)

some have tongues, some have teaching, some have healing etc etc
so, not speaking in tongues does not mean you're not saved/ baptized in the spirit, it merely means you have a different gift
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#15
#15
Speaking in tongues IS for EVERYONE that is already Born again/born of God. Speaking in tongues DOES NOT SAVE. It is NOT a SALVATION ISSUE.
You don't speak in tongues
IF you have not receive the 2nd baptism...the baptism of the Holy Spirit. See Acts2, 9, 10, 19.
You don't speak in tongues IF you do no believe that it is for everyone.
You don't speak in tongues IF you fear sounding stupid. AND
You don't speak in tongues IF you do not open your mouth.
That you belive that speaking in tongues has ANYTHING to do with salvation shows a gross misunderstanding of scripture at the worst and an lack of knowledge and need for spiritual growth at the best.
God's word tells us to BE DILIGENT to show yourself approved unto God RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF GOD.
In other words....STUDY, STUDY STUDY so that you can know....at least what you are talking about accurately.,
Magge
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#16
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#16
DABEARS85 said:
First of all, I'd like to state that every single denomination has some form of false man-made doctrine that really doesn't belong and shouldn't be taught. I'm focusing on one, but that doesn't justify, edify, and/or say any other denomination is better in any way. If you need to know, I'm non-denominational, because I view all denominations as a division in the church that shouldn't be there. That being said, read on.

I've thought about all of this for quite a long time, being mainly the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. For a LONG, LONG time, I pondered on why I haven't spoken in "tongues," prophesied, etc etc. I also always wondered how quite a few Pentecostal Doctrine churches specifically said a person had to speak in tongues to show proof of being baptized in the Holy Spirit and/or saved, especially since I KNEW I am and already had been saved for quite a long time. I've felt the Holy Spirit touch my life (as well as the negative kind for you who actively enjoy the gift (sometimes feels like a curse) of discernment out there), and I've never had doubts into my salvation. To add to that, many Pentecostal preachers would claim you are a spiritually "dead" Christian if you were not actively either A) Speaking in tongues B) Interpretating aforementioned gibberish tongues or C) rolling on the floor doing the chicken dance/foaming at the mouth and doing the stanky leg.

Mainly, I've come up with one distinct conclusion: A large majority of Pentecostalism is a false doctrine hypnosis emotion scam. I say this with a heavy heart, since I really don't want that to be true.

1. Speaking in Tongues - This is the most controversial aspect of all Pentecostalism, and the one that really sets them apart from almost all other denominations. Speaking in Tongues seems to be the "proof" aspect that many hold to with lockjaw. I guess, because of that, I should start here.

Matthew 7:21-24 (New International Version,
Click to expand...



good for you.

their proof text is Pentecost. a complete corruption of it.
i love brave servants of the Lord....keep using your wonder gift of discernment which is not a curse, it's a sign of your maturity in Christ.
zone
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#17
#17
Speaking in tongues IS for EVERYONE that is already Born again/born of God. Speaking in tongues DOES NOT SAVE. It is NOT a SALVATION ISSUE.
You don't speak in tongues
IF you have not receive the 2nd baptism...the baptism of the Holy Spirit. See Acts2, 9, 10, 19.
You don't speak in tongues IF you do no believe that it is for everyone.
You don't speak in tongues IF you fear sounding stupid. AND
You don't speak in tongues IF you do not open your mouth.
That you belive that speaking in tongues has ANYTHING to do with salvation shows a gross misunderstanding of scripture at the worst and an lack of knowledge and need for spiritual growth at the best.
God's word tells us to BE DILIGENT to show yourself approved unto God RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF GOD.
In other words....STUDY, STUDY STUDY so that you can know....at least what you are talking about accurately.,
Magge
 
trust_in_the_name

trust_in_the_name

Banned
#18
Jan 18, 2011
1,117
5
0
#18
First of all, compose your post in a separate program so you don't lose anything.

As for the reason it won't post, it's simple: your post contained special characters. There are a lot of characters that are not supported and if you include them it will cut the post off.
 
trust_in_the_name

trust_in_the_name

Banned
#19
Jan 18, 2011
1,117
5
0
#19
DABEARS85 said:
First of all, I'd like to state that every single denomination has some form of false man-made doctrine that really doesn't belong and shouldn't be taught.
Click to expand...
You're absolutely correct (2 Peter 2:1), but the very fact that it is a denomination in and of itself is a form of false man-made doctrine that really doesn't belong and shouldn't be taught:

10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Those who do not hear each other (denominations) are not of God and do not know God:

6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1 John 4:6)

Since denominations by definition cannot agree about the doctrine of Christ, we know that they cannot possibly be abiding in the doctrine of Christ. Therefore they do not have God, neither the Father nor the Son:

9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. (2 John 9)

"Denomination" refers to a (supposed) division within the church. But, in reality, and according to scripture, there are no such divisions. Saying "I belong to a denomination" is the same thing as saying "I openly admit that I'm opposed to the word of God and have no problem with it:"

3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Become complete. Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you. (2 Corinthians 13:11)

8 Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; (1 Peter 3:8)

27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, (Philippians 1:27)

2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. (Philippians 2:2)

3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (Ephesians 4:3)

16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind. (Philippians 2:16)

12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:12-13)

16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. (John 14:16-17)

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. (1 John 2:20-21)

27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. (1 John 2:27)

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (John 14:26)
 
D

DABEARS85

Guest
#20
#20
MaggieMye said:
Speaking in tongues IS for EVERYONE that is already Born again/born of God. Speaking in tongues DOES NOT SAVE. It is NOT a SALVATION ISSUE.
You don't speak in tongues
IF you have not receive the 2nd baptism...the baptism of the Holy Spirit. See Acts2, 9, 10, 19.
You don't speak in tongues IF you do no believe that it is for everyone.
You don't speak in tongues IF you fear sounding stupid. AND
You don't speak in tongues IF you do not open your mouth.
That you belive that speaking in tongues has ANYTHING to do with salvation shows a gross misunderstanding of scripture at the worst and an lack of knowledge and need for spiritual growth at the best.
God's word tells us to BE DILIGENT to show yourself approved unto God RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF GOD.
In other words....STUDY, STUDY STUDY so that you can know....at least what you are talking about accurately.,
Magge
Click to expand...
If I can post everything that I've written, everyone will be able to understand what I was saying. It cut my post off, which was VERY long and FULL of biblical scripture, not to mention a lot of study.

Anyway, my point isn't that speaking in tongues is false doctrine, but that the Pentecostal attitude that speaking in tongues is the only way to prove that you are either A) Saved or B) Baptized in the Holy Spirit. In both aspects, it is wrong and false doctrine to teach that.

When CC starts to work again, I'll make sure to post everything.

My main point was that speaking in tongues was predominantly ENDED by 100 AD, when the bible was officially formed and complete. It isn't needed today as any form of proof method. The Bible is your proof, and so saying that speaking in tongues is proof is false doctrine.

Not to mention, many Pentecostal preachers give "study guides" on how to speak in tongues, and the ENTIRE emphasis on speaking in tongues as a whole is a sinful ideology. Speaking in tongues is the LEAST of all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and it is NOT something you strive for or want. Using it as the only proof you have as being baptized in the Holy Spirit is false teaching, and that is what my original post was going to be about.

Anyway, I'll try later to see if I can actually post it without the forum being all buggy and cutting it all up.
 
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