Is it lawful to pray to and worship Jesus, and Holy Spirit?

superdave5221 · Feb 28, 2011

The following is from Christian Theology, Second Edition, by Millard J. Erickson, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1998, p. 367.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a crucial ingredient of our faith. Each of the three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is to be worshiped, as is the Triune God. And keeping in mind their distinctive work, it is appropriate to direct prayers of thanks, and petition to each of the members of the Trinity, as well as to all of them collectively. Furthermore, the perfect love and unity within the Godhead model for us the oneness and affection that should characterize our relationship within the body of Christ. [End of quote]

Now consider the following:

Exodus 34: 14 -for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God -

Matthew 4: 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan ! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' " 11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

Should we worship and pray to Jesus and Holy Spirit if they are not God? Would this not be idolatry?

I have included your beloved KJV below for the traditionalists as well as the NASB, so you cannot malign my translation.

Hebrews 1: 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith , And let all the angels of God worship him. (KJV)

Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"? 6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP (NASB)

It appears that God Himself will order the angels to worship Jesus. How can this be, if Jesus is not God?

wwjd_kilden · Feb 28, 2011

sorry, you lost me, where in the bible does it ever say that Jesus is not God?

resurrection33 · Feb 28, 2011

I believe that the Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are all the same person. Therefore I think it’s okay to pray to and worship any of them.

superdave5221 · Feb 28, 2011

wwjd_kilden said:

Hello, that is my question. My contention is that Jesus IS God. There are many in this forum who are claiming that Jesus is not God. And they claim to have scriptural proof. I am interested to see how they reconcile this question.

DanuckInUSA · Feb 28, 2011

We are set free from the law.

wwjd_kilden · Feb 28, 2011

ooooh, right

let them live by their odd rules if they want to. I prefer praying to Jesus, I kinda feel like they say in the shack:
God is the big (slightly scary) guy way up there, Jesus is the buddy you can talk to

Crazy4GODword · Feb 28, 2011

i go to church and worship Jesus, my opinion Jesus is God......I pray to God.

shalom aleichem

Peacefulcrusader · Feb 28, 2011

wwjd_kilden said:

We can pray to God, no matter if it is the Father, Son or Spirit, but you don't need to be afraid of God (the Father). He's not just a scary guy "up there". If you know Jesus you know the Father, and the Father loves you and gave his Son to save you. Don't read Christian books if they give you a bad view of the God the Father. If "The Shack" has taught you to think like that, then don't read that book. Stick to the Bible instead.

Scotth1960 · Feb 28, 2011

superdave5221 said:

The following is from Christian Theology, Second Edition, by Millard J. Erickson, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1998, p. 367.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a crucial ingredient of our faith. Each of the three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is to be worshiped, as is the Triune God. And keeping in mind their distinctive work, it is appropriate to direct prayers of thanks, and petition to each of the members of the Trinity, as well as to all of them collectively. Furthermore, the perfect love and unity within the Godhead model for us the oneness and affection that should characterize our relationship within the body of Christ. [End of quote]

Now consider the following:

Exodus 34: 14 -for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God -

Matthew 4: 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan ! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' " 11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

Should we worship and pray to Jesus and Holy Spirit if they are not God? Would this not be idolatry?

I have included your beloved KJV below for the traditionalists as well as the NASB, so you cannot malign my translation.

Hebrews 1: 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith , And let all the angels of God worship him. (KJV)

Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"? 6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP (NASB)

It appears that God Himself will order the angels to worship Jesus. How can this be, if Jesus is not God?

AMEN. Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages; AMEN.

wwjd_kilden · Feb 28, 2011

Peacefulcrusader said:

No worries, I know He isnt. and that is not the view The Shack gave me, it just said that that is how many people view Him. And I know they are all one, it just feels more natural to "talk to" Jesus than to God

SantoSubito · Feb 28, 2011

superdave5221 said:

The following is from Christian Theology, Second Edition, by Millard J. Erickson, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1998, p. 367.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a crucial ingredient of our faith. Each of the three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is to be worshiped, as is the Triune God. And keeping in mind their distinctive work, it is appropriate to direct prayers of thanks, and petition to each of the members of the Trinity, as well as to all of them collectively. Furthermore, the perfect love and unity within the Godhead model for us the oneness and affection that should characterize our relationship within the body of Christ. [End of quote]

Now consider the following:

Exodus 34: 14 -for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God -

Matthew 4: 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan ! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' " 11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

Should we worship and pray to Jesus and Holy Spirit if they are not God? Would this not be idolatry?

I have included your beloved KJV below for the traditionalists as well as the NASB, so you cannot malign my translation.

Hebrews 1: 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith , And let all the angels of God worship him. (KJV)

Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"? 6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP (NASB)

It appears that God Himself will order the angels to worship Jesus. How can this be, if Jesus is not God?

I'll chime in with another Gloria Patri.

Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto,
Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.

Consumed · Feb 28, 2011

we are under grace not law for those who have accepted Jesus - and no that doesnt give liscense to sin

HeavenwithinYOU · Mar 1, 2011

YouTube - Jesus Christ Testimony, Finding Jesus Christ, Jesus loves you. <--- watch my testimony..

WE worship God the Father through Christ and ask for the HOLY SPIRIT and until we receive it KEEP asking nothing is automatic... that's the biggest apostasy and deception in the church today.

[FONT=&quot]•John 17:21 - Jesus said: "That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be IN us."
John 8:31 - "IF you ABIDE in my word, you are TRULY my disciples."
• John 14:21: "He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
• Luke 14:26 - "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple."
• John 7:37 - For Jesus stood and cried, saying on the day of the Feast, "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his BELLY shall flow rivers of Living Water!"

[/FONT] • Galatians 2:20 - "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me."
• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?"
• Hebrews 12:14 - "Without holiness no one will see the Lord."
• 2 Peter 2:2 - "Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute."
• Ephesians 2:14 - For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

• Romans 8:9 -- "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ."

• Galatians 5:20 -- "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."

• Colossians 2:11 -- "In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ."

• John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world."

• 1 John 2:27 "...and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit."
• 1 John 3:9 - "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."

• 1 John 5:18 - "We know that the person who has been born from God does not go on sinning. Rather, the Son of God protects them, and the evil one cannot harm them."
• Luke 24:49 "I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

• John 4: 23 -- "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

• Hebrews 12:8 "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons."

• John 8:34 - Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."

Consumed · Mar 1, 2011

matthew 5:6

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,

For they shall be filled.

VW · Mar 1, 2011

When I pray, asking for someone or some situation, I pray to the Father. When I am concerned for another, I ask Jesus to intercede for them with the Father. When I want to know the heart of the Father or the Son, I seek the Holy Spirit, to feel what He feels. I am closest to the Spirit in my daily walk, as He lives in my heart, and He has become the mind of Christ for and to me. His heart stirs my heart in ways that were impossible before He came into my life. I am aware of being in Jesus, every moment of every day, and of just how much He intercedes for me with the Father. I am growing to know the Father through Jesus. This is the aim, the goal of my life, my greatest desire, to know and be known by the Father.

But the Father frightens me, every time in come into His presence. I understand that only just barely am I allowed into His presence, and that it is by the sacrifice that I can come at all, and not cease to exist before His majesty. And in His presence I find truth, light, judgment, and love. He exposes me in every hidden place in my heart, as He searches even the deepest parts of my being. I did not truly know myself until He exposed me.

What the Father exposes is the darkness in my heart. I cannot be in the presence of His righteousness and not see my unrighteousness. I must be willing to see as He does to enter into His presence in truth. The Father will not allow lies in His presence. And His glory shines with a golden brightness, almost tangible in it's intensity. In the light of His glory I am changed. In His presence I mature in Christ. In His presence the old me is slain, and the new me who is created in Jesus Christ, in perfect righteousness, is raised up.

We want God to be explainable, logical, reasonable, and understandable. But our natural mind cannot understand Him, indeed it can barely grasp that He exists. The natural man does not receive the things of God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each has a role in our growth so each can share in the joy of see a child of God grow and mature. But it all comes down to our beholding their glory.

Many will not draw near to the Father. Many will not receive the Spirit. Too essoterical, not concrete enough. Many claim a faith but deny the relationship. We are reconciled for a reason, which is that the Father loves us, and wants us as His own.

Red33 · Mar 1, 2011

VW said:

Perhaps you have not caught up with what the Holy Spirit has already revealed through the written word to those that belong to the Father that have been purchased through the blood of Christ (Heb 4:16)...

Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God's unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need [appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it].

Jesus Christ has made it so accessible to come to the Father and we approach the Father by faith through the blood of His Son. If we sin or transgress we approach the Father through the blood of His Son because the Son has given us full access as our mediator, our high priest and our advocate. The grace that we have access to through mercy is inexhaustible in its supply because it comes from the Father.

It is through Christ that we have access by one Spirit unto the Father (Eph 2:18).

It is through Christ that we have access to this grace wherein we stand (Rom 5:2).

In Christ and through His faith we have access and boldness to the things of God (Eph 3:12).

It is Christ that dwells in our hearts by faith, being rooted and grounded in love (Eph 3:17).

When we come before the Father by faith we can do this with confidence that we are accepted of Him because the blood of Christ has justified us before the Father. The Father will not condemn us because the Son took away through the cross everything that we could be condemned for and in His presence is fulness of joy with no fear or trepidation (Ps 16:11).

VW · Mar 1, 2011

Only someone who has not passed through the veil into the holy place could so confidently make such assertions.

VW · Mar 1, 2011

The witness of the scriptures is not the end of all things, but just barely the beginning of our coming to know God. Even in scripture we find the reality of coming into the presence of Jesus in heaven, and this with the one called the disciple whom Jesus loved. This says nothing of coming into the holy place where the Father dwells.

One day you will tell us of what you know, not what you have read or been taught by men.

Red33 · Mar 1, 2011

VW said:

These are not assertions they are what the scriptures teach to all believers and shouldn't we be confident in the word that God has given to us? Has the blood failed to justify the believer and give access to the Father through the Son? Perhaps you do not know the scriptures as you should and esteem the gift you say you have from God over and above the written word. That could explain how someone could be misled.

wakeup · Mar 1, 2011

superdave5221 said:

The following is from Christian Theology, Second Edition, by Millard J. Erickson, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1998, p. 367.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a crucial ingredient of our faith. Each of the three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is to be worshiped, as is the Triune God. And keeping in mind their distinctive work, it is appropriate to direct prayers of thanks, and petition to each of the members of the Trinity, as well as to all of them collectively. Furthermore, the perfect love and unity within the Godhead model for us the oneness and affection that should characterize our relationship within the body of Christ. [End of quote]

Now consider the following:

Exodus 34: 14 -for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God -

Matthew 4: 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan ! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' " 11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

Should we worship and pray to Jesus and Holy Spirit if they are not God? Would this not be idolatry?

I have included your beloved KJV below for the traditionalists as well as the NASB, so you cannot malign my translation.

Hebrews 1: 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith , And let all the angels of God worship him. (KJV)

Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"? 6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP (NASB)

It appears that God Himself will order the angels to worship Jesus. How can this be, if Jesus is not God?

if you have decided to pray to the triune god, dont leave out , the
mother of god. after all she is the mother of god.
god the mother , god the hhhmmm, god the son , god the holy
spirit. you see how confused it is??
did not jesus give us a model prayer??? our father who art in heaven----- . what is all this confusion about? if you worship gods word,
you worship god. all authority is given by god to his son.
he is put as a mediator. you have the father you have the son
you have the son you have the father. the son belongs to god, the holy spirit belongs to god. all is god, one god . the word of god is
jesus, the holy spirit ( truth ) comes with the word. these two are
in god. in god is his word, and in his word is the truth.

regards to you
wakeup

Is it lawful to pray to and worship Jesus, and Holy Spirit?

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