The Description Of A False Prophet

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B

Baruch

Guest
#1
Matthew 7: 13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

In reading the passage from the King James Bible, by His grace, I find that the description of a false prophet as a warning given to believers is that he or she (or a teaching or a spirit of error) will come among us as verse 15 declares.

I find also that these false prophets that will be among us will broaden the way provided by God the Father.

So Who is the Way?

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How specific is that commandment of His invitation?

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.......7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

So in light of these passages in the commandment of His invitation, a false prophet would broaden the way in coming to God by offering another door and another invitation besides the one to Jesus. From the description of the thief from John 10th chapter, we find that the false prophets can place something between the believer and Jesus to avoid going directly to Him. It doesn't go against Jesus Christ, but it does fulfill the definition of the "anti-christ" in that it is "instead of Christ", thus we can see how the way is broadened here, hopefully by His grace.

Going back to Matthew 7th chapter for the continuing description of a false prophet.

Matthew 7: 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The results of the move by this false prophets will be ecumenical in nature, being well received in the world and in the media.

Luke 6:26Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

John 7: The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

So the ecumenical result of this false prophet will be hyping something else in His name.. to glorify something else in His name as the invitation to go to that "instead of Christ". How can we discern this?

John 5: 39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men. 42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Back to Matthew 7th chpater for the continuing description of a false prophet.

Matthew 7:16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The results of this false prophet being ecumenical in nature will be showing the hype and the sensationalism of the movement, advertising what will be appealing... but... it cannot hide the ills within. This is when believers can get swept away with the glamour of the movement while ignoring those "evil fruits" within, pushing them in the back of their minds in favoring what they deem as good or of the Lord. Some will be able to acknowledge this, and yet believe that one must look to the good as it being from God and what is not good as being of the devil, but the scriptures declares that no good tree cannot produce an evil fruit and therefore what is deem as a good tree cannot be good at all.

How serious is this in regards to our faith and walk with the Lord?

Matthew 7: 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

How do we avoid this?

Matthew 7:24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

How do we apply His words to avoid the craftiness of the false prophets?

Luke 13: 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Matthew 7:13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

In applying to movements in the past for future discernment and application.......

It has been reported that many hunger for more of God in the "holy laughter" movement, but yet....

John 6: 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

It has been reported that some have walked away from Jesus because they knew they could not take on the yoke of the Promise Keepers' program and yet...

Matthew 11: 28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jesus Christ is the Gospel. Preach Him. Everything else is a counterfeit.

1 Corinthians 2:2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Nothing and no one else can share in that spotlight with Jesus for it is by the Son can the Father be honoured and glorified by.

Philippians 2:9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

John 5:22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 13:31Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

John 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

And guess what? Even though the Holy Spirit is God, He also seeks to glorify the Son, so the Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself to accomplish that by bearing testimony of the Son.

John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

And if we are led by the Spirit of God, then we shall do what He is sent to do:

John 15:26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 7:18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

So if anything else is being exalted in His name, be it man or the movement of the Spirit..... look at the banner... does it glorify the name of Jesus Christ... or some other name?

Keep your eyes on Jesus and avoid all other invitations. Jesus is the Gospel as all others are counterfeits... and you need no other.
 
L

LynnJ

Guest
#2
It has been reported that many hunger for more of God in the "holy laughter" movement, but yet....

John 6: 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Yes, some people run after the latest and greatest thing, which is not what God wants us to do. But, regarding hunger and thirst, although Jesus does satisfy us, we are to hunger and thirst for Him and His righteousness:

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." (Matt. 5:6, NIV)

It is a figure of speech, to hunger and thirst after God, meaning that we should seek Him as if our very life depends upon it.

"O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water." (Ps. 63:1, NIV)

"I spread out my hands to you; my soul thirsts for you like a parched land. Selah." (Ps. 143:6. NIV)

Praise God, He does satisfy the hungry and thirsty!

"Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men, for he satisfies the thirsty and fills the hungry with good things."
(Ps. 107:8-9, NIV)



 
B

Baruch

Guest
#3
Yes, some people run after the latest and greatest thing, which is not what God wants us to do. But, regarding hunger and thirst, although Jesus does satisfy us, we are to hunger and thirst for Him and His righteousness:

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." (Matt. 5:6, NIV)

It is a figure of speech, to hunger and thirst after God, meaning that we should seek Him as if our very life depends upon it.


Thank you for sharing, but there is an important note to confirm in regards to our faith. Matthew 5:6 in hungering and thirsting after righteousness, they shall be filled. The reason why those that cometh to Jesus and believeth in Him hunger no more because....

2 Peter 1:1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Romans 3:21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 8:10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

1 Corinthians 1:30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That is why when we came to Him, there is no more hungering nor thirsting after righteousness and why as a testimony.. we are filled, sealed, and thus preserved as in saved.

Matthew 9:17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Philippians 1:Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

So when a person heed another invitation and go to the next movement of the "spirit" and from it, develop a hunger for more of God.. for more of that, we can see why John 6:35 is a line of discernment when the promise from Jesus is lacking because they sought after the "spirit" instead of resting in Christ Jesus that they are filled.


"O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water." (Ps. 63:1, NIV)

"I spread out my hands to you; my soul thirsts for you like a parched land. Selah." (Ps. 143:6. NIV)

Praise God, He does satisfy the hungry and thirsty!

"Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men, for he satisfies the thirsty and fills the hungry with good things." (Ps. 107:8-9, NIV)
Exactly. Once they have come to and believe in Jesus, the witness is that we do not hunger nor thirst anymore after righteousnes for we are filled.
That is why we are called to rest in Jesus so nothing else can lead us away from Him.

John 6:35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Sometimes catch phrases from these movements of the spirit gets around and people apply them in other ways, but to witness of our faith in according to the scriptures, we seek to learn more of Him, but we hunger and thirst no more for we are His. No more looking for Him for He has found us and saved us as His as He is with us always. Amen.
 
M

Miah45

Guest
#4
Oh brother! :)
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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0
#5
Anyone who isn't thirsting after more of God or the things of God is possibly complacent, luke warm, or thinks they've "arrived" at that place of perfection which can't be done in this life. Until we see Jesus face to face there will always be a longing and desire to meet Him. Seeking God with all our heart and all our soul is something we all must do.. and that seeking is out of an honest desire to meet Him.

Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#6
Yes, some people run after the latest and greatest thing, which is not what God wants us to do. But, regarding hunger and thirst, although Jesus does satisfy us, we are to hunger and thirst for Him and His righteousness:

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." (Matt. 5:6, NIV)

It is a figure of speech, to hunger and thirst after God, meaning that we should seek Him as if our very life depends upon it.

"O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water." (Ps. 63:1, NIV)

"I spread out my hands to you; my soul thirsts for you like a parched land. Selah." (Ps. 143:6. NIV)

Praise God, He does satisfy the hungry and thirsty!

"Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men, for he satisfies the thirsty and fills the hungry with good things." (Ps. 107:8-9, NIV)



Those are precious verses, hold them dearly. If the plan of God puts you into the wilderness once again and does not give you water for your thirst, nor bread for your hunger and takes away everything that is dear to you, will your heart have the faith that declares, 'though He slay me, I will trust Him' (Job 13:15)? Will you have the faith of the women that sought the Lord to worship Him and for her vexed daughter who had a devil and was insulted by the Master saying He did not come to take the children's bread to feed the dogs? She did not get offended but responded with such faith, because she knew something about the Master (Mt 15:22-28). Will you have the faith of the (three) Hebrew boys that went into the fiery furnace and said, 'If God delivers us fine and if not it's fine' (Dan 3:17). And good ole' Esther, 'If I perish I perish' (Esther 4:13). Great peace have they that love thy word nothing shall offend them (Psalm 119:165). They were not all occupied with being offended or hurt by others because they had the living God and they knew it. They did not have some psuedo spirituality that they trusted in but they trusted in the living God. Their faith was alive with hope and promise because they knew in whom they believed.
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#7
Anyone who isn't thirsting after more of God or the things of God is possibly complacent, luke warm, or thinks they've "arrived" at that place of perfection which can't be done in this life. Until we see Jesus face to face there will always be a longing and desire to meet Him. Seeking God with all our heart and all our soul is something we all must do.. and that seeking is out of an honest desire to meet Him.

Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
You quoted that verse and yet ignore the promise that you shall find Him.

You say you are seeking the face of Jesus Christ but it is no wonder you cannot find Him because you keep climbing up another way by chasing after the Holy Spirit... and hungering and thirsting after that.

That is what you get for moving away from your rest in Jesus Christ for then you would have been filled, neither hungering nor thirsting anymore. That is His promise for coming to and believing in Him.

Well, keep on looking for Him then because He has found me.

Philippians 3:9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection,....

Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


1 Peter 2: 24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.....

..... 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Galatians 3:14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. ..... 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. .... 6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

God keeps His promises, and I believe the Good News about Jesus!

Ephesians 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

You cannot be complacent if you are walking IN the Spirit by faith in the Son of God... but if you keep going to the market to be filled... if you keep reliving the Day of Pentecost over and over again... I would be surprised if anyone can grow in Him in that way... if they keep being "reborn".

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3And this will we do, if God permit.

I thank God in Jesus' name for permitting me to rest in Jesus as I walk by faith with My Good Shepherd and My Friend by His grace alone. I hardly call that complacent.
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#8
You quoted that verse and yet ignore the promise that you shall find Him.

You say you are seeking the face of Jesus Christ but it is no wonder you cannot find Him because you keep climbing up another way by chasing after the Holy Spirit... and hungering and thirsting after that.


That is what you get for moving away from your rest in Jesus Christ for then you would have been filled, neither hungering nor thirsting anymore. That is His promise for coming to and believing in Him.


Your comments about chasing after the Spirit as being "another way" is dumbfounding because the Spirit and Jesus are One. Who said anything about cannot finding Jesus Christ? This is about a person who has already found Him and wanting to know Him more.
Can you honestly say that you have no desire to know Him more and know everything about Him? You've made two mistakes. First of all assuming those who seek God have not found Him. Secondly assuming that those who seek God more are not in the rest of Christ.
All I can see is you continually attacking the beliefs and practices of believers seeking God. For what purpose I don't know.

 
B

Baruch

Guest
#9
Your comments about chasing after the Spirit as being "another way" is dumbfounding because the Spirit and Jesus are One. Who said anything about cannot finding Jesus Christ? This is about a person who has already found Him and wanting to know Him more.
Can you honestly say that you have no desire to know Him more and know everything about Him? You've made two mistakes. First of all assuming those who seek God have not found Him. Secondly assuming that those who seek God more are not in the rest of Christ.
All I can see is you continually attacking the beliefs and practices of believers seeking God. For what purpose I don't know.
Try rereading your posts and look over your beliefs and see how contrary they can be to this post even. You cannot seek the Holy Spirit if He is in you. You cannot seek to be filled if you are filled.

Yes, The Holy Spirit and Jesus are One... but the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit as Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus died on the cross as the Father raised Him from the dead.. the Spirit quickened Him. So you cannot say that all three died on the cross. It is by Jesus we have life.. it is by Jesus we have access to the Father... it is by Jesus we have received (past tense) the Holy Ghost and in keeping the faith and rest in Christ Jesus... we are to relate to God the Father through the Son, the Bridegroom, as He is the Head of the Church. All invitations points to the Son and all instructions to avoid false prophets and false spirits are pointing to the Son. It is His name that is above very other name.

The Holy Spirit is not the Mediator nor extra "go to" Person of the Trinity because there are other sirits in the world. You cannot "go to" the Holy Spirit because there is no "going to" when He is in you. Jesus, the risen Saviour.. at the right hand of God the Father is the "go to" person of the Trinity as it is the commandment to do so. John 14:6 You cannot get around that at all. It is more than salvation as Jesus is declaring that he is the only way to the Father in relationship. And if the Holy Spirit in us is pointing others to Christ as He is still pointing us to Christ, then we whom are led by the Spirit of God.. better be looking toward the face of Our Good Shepherd in getting to know God through the Son by the scriptures. (John 5:39-40).

If the Lord has not caused the increase by now on this issue either, than just drop it and me as well, brother. I can only hope that He will cause the increase for you soon... and before He appears.

Read Hebrews 12th chapter about why God would leave wayward believers behind at the rapture event.

This is all I have to say on the subject with you in this thread.

Thanks for participating. Hopefully, by His grace, I was a better ambassader for Christ than I was a mere moment ago.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#10
Try rereading your posts and look over your beliefs and see how contrary they can be to this post even. You cannot seek the Holy Spirit if He is in you. You cannot seek to be filled if you are filled.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
I hope you didn't misunderstand what I said about seeking. My point is that we seek God until we find Him. We can indeed seek the Spirit if He is within us. We seek Him within us. Or rather, we seek Jesus or God the Father and God reveals Himself to us by the Spirit. Just because the Spirit dwells within does not mean God is always the forefront of our attention or our focus. It doesn't mean that we don't have to pray anymore or seek God anymore just because the Spirit is within us. It is in fact the Spirit who helps us in prayer and helps us find God after seeking Him through prayer and worship.
There are a lot of believers who believe they are always filled with the Spirit even though there is no evidence of that. But just believing we are filled doesn't mean we are. The scriptures imply a contual moment by moment infilling of the Spirit. Christians are not always filled with the Spirit, but only at the times when is required eg Paul in Acts 13:9-10 or if they are completely surrendered to God may they experience a continual filling. Being filled with the Spirit to me basically means being under the influence of the Spirit. And christians are not always completely under that influence.
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#11
Heb 11:6 But without faith itis impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
I hope you didn't misunderstand what I said about seeking. My point is that we seek God until we find Him.
I am still misunderstanding you. Once you have found Him, there is no more seeking in that regard of "trying to find Him". It is merely seek the Lord in our daily walk.

We can indeed seek the Spirit if He is within us. We seek Him within us. Or rather, we seek Jesus or God the Father and God reveals Himself to us by the Spirit.
I just have alot of trouble of any implications to suggest that we are out of the Spirit so that we must seek the Spirit and be filled with Him again... just in order to walk IN the Spirit. The scriptures sasy this:

Colossians 2:5For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Just because the Spirit dwells within does not mean God is always the forefront of our attention or our focus. It doesn't mean that we don't have to pray anymore or seek God anymore just because the Spirit is within us. It is in fact the Spirit who helps us in prayer and helps us find God after seeking Him through prayer and worship.
This is where we disagree. It is the Lord Jesus we should be seeking to follow as He is the Good Shepherd. The idea of not having to go to a place to worship God as the Samaritan woman at the well commented on about the Jews at Jerusalem and the Gentiles at the mountain... Jesus was referring to a time that those that come to worship the Father will no longer have to go to Jerusalem or to the mountains or to Pensacola, Florida or to Toronto Canada because those that worship God will be able to worship Him IN Spirit and In trith all the time no matter where they are.. so there is no more seeking the Spirit to do this for He is in us as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus so we can worship God the Father whenever and wherever we are through the Son.

There are a lot of believers who believe they are always filled with the Spirit even though there is no evidence of that.

Other than Colossians 2:5-10 that I quoted, the idea of being saved is this verse right here.

Matthew 9:17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

How can we be witnesses of Him.. of the reality of being saved, if we live as though we are leaky vessels? Are we a new creature in Christ? Have we been bought with a price and sealed with that Spirit of adoption? Then how can a seeking a continual filling honour what He has done as if we are not new wineskins? How can we apply this verse in our testimony that we are hereby saved?

But just believing we are filled doesn't mean we are. The scriptures imply a contual moment by moment infilling of the Spirit. Christians are not always filled with the Spirit, but only at the times when is required eg Paul in Acts 13:9-10 or if they are completely surrendered to God may they experience a continual filling.
Imply.... is not the same thing as what is plainly stated regarding our faith. Using the Book of Acts to fit supernatural experiences into the Bible to say it is of God is not the way to test the spirits. We are to test the spirits by the Word of God. To do it the other way is wanting it to be from God without considering the consequences of what one is saying for that would be preaching another spirit to receive.

Just discern that by His grace in how you can say you are not preaching another spirit to receive as if you have not received yet... in how it goes against the Gospel of grace.

2 Corinthians 11:3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Being filled with the Spirit to me basically means being under the influence of the Spirit. And christians are not always completely under that influence.
Resting in Jesus to me means that I am filled with the Spirit so that each morning I wake up, I know He is with me always to walk in the Spirit in following Jesus Christ, My Good Shepherd. Indeed, when I am sowing to the flesh, that is the only way He can let me know that I am, as it would war against the Spirit in that regard. If sowing to the flesh pushed out the Spirit that I need a constant inflowing of the Spirit, it bears a poor testimony of God's finished work in making us "sealed" as His, let alone redeemed as His as if we are still old wineskin and not a new creature in Christ now. We would not be able to receive the promise of permanent indwelling Holy Spirit unless we are new.

By His grace, I am bearing witness of the simplicity of the Gospel in Jesus Christ. It is the extras of what you are preaching that voids the effects of the Gospel that I am against.

This walk with Jesus IN the Spirit daily is to accomplish this regard by His grace:

Romans 12: 1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

May God cause the increase so that you may rest in Jesus to bear witness of the simplicity of the Gospel to defend the faith that is in Jesus Christ: the Good News to man. ... and not serve nor exalt anything else in His name. Amen.
 
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Ah, what "extras" are you thinking of? Pentecost, Baptism of the Spirit with spiritual gifts eg tongues?
I don't believe the Gospel ended at the end of John.
 
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I just have alot of trouble of any implications to suggest that we are out of the Spirit so that we must seek the Spirit and be filled with Him again... just in order to walk IN the Spirit. The
Perhaps we are talking about different things by the word "filling". To me,
walking in the Spirit is something different to being filled. To be filled with the Spirit to me means the various occasions when people are under the influence or control of the Spirit such as Luke 1:41, Elizabeth proclaimation, Luke 1:67, Zaccheus prophesying , Acts 2:4 (tongues accompanying being filled with the Spirit), Acts 4:8 Peter preaching, Acts 4:31, all filled with the Spirit and boldness for preaching, Acts 7:45, Stephen looking up and having a vision, Acts 13:9, Paul rebuking, Acts 13:52, the disciples being filled with the Spirit after coming into Iconium,


As the scriptures show, being filled with the Spirit is often accompanied by miraculous things such as casting out devils, preaching, prophesying , tongues etc.

By making special mention of the fact that they were filled with the Spirit at these times, it should be common sense that they were not always necessarily filled with the Spirit, only at those occasions for which it was required.

I believe you are talking about "walking in the Spirit" which I see as something different.
 
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So you say you are filled with the Spirit every morning which is certainly possible, so what miraculous things accompany that, do you speak in tongues, do you cast out devils, do you prophesy, see visions etc? The thing is while the Spirit indwells every believer, not every believer is filled with the Spirit.

As it explains on this website the difference between the indwelling of the Spirit and the filling of the Spirit
http://www.gotquestions.org/Spirit-filled.html

Indwelling is permanent, the filling is not necessarily. So being filled with the Spirit is certainly something that can be achieved (n.b. the command to be filled with the Spirit in Eph 5:18) that is directly related to our obedience etc and it is quite usual to be filled with the Spirit after seeking God, and fairly typical for a christian not to be filled with the Spirit if they have not prayed for a week for example.

I think you may not be realising the differences between the indwelling and infilling of the Spirit, and walking in and being filled with the Spirit.
 
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By His grace, I am bearing witness of the simplicity of the Gospel in Jesus Christ. It is the extras of what you are preaching that voids the effects of the Gospel that I am against.
So I think what you are not understanding Baruch, is that when christians seek God to find Him, they are seeking to be filled with Him and by Him and encounter Him and His presence in a greater way than they already have before. This does not mean, as you seem to allege, that they are doing this instead of seeking Christ, they are rather, seeking God because of Christ. They are not, seeking God because they have not or cannot find Him, they are rather, seeking God because they have encountered Him and want to know Him more. Yet you seem to have this strange idea that it is somehow opposed to the Gospel or something extra to the Gospel.. but I would say it is the Gospel.
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#16
Ah, what "extras" are you thinking of? Pentecost, Baptism of the Spirit with spiritual gifts eg tongues?
I don't believe the Gospel ended at the end of John.
And neither has the Gospel been stuck at the Day of Pentecost as if it was like the movie "Groundhog Day".

Either we are walking with the Lord Jesus or the Day of Pentecost might as well be the Eternity of Pentecost... and the glory of that day will overshadow the glory of the Lord found in Jesus Christ.

So then this gospel you are trying to preach would be about Pentecost more than the Gospel of grace.... but it shouldn't be, and yet the name of the church should testify as to what the church is all about: Pentecostal = Pentecost.

1 Corinthians 2:2 says it best in how to have fellowship.
 
A

Aliciaforjesus

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#17
The "Holy laughter movement" are you talking about the one that started in Canada, and moved to Redding with Bill Johnson?

I just left a church here in Fresno that was tied into that one! It was a nightmare! Beware of False Prophets!

They have a likeness of God, but they are wolves! They seem to conjure up the Holy Spirit, You don't have to do that!

The Pastors wife told me not to use the word sin anymore! She wanted me to find another word to use.
Any time I would show my satifaction in my relationship with the Lord, she would tell me I was wrong to feel that way.

I can not speak for the whole movement, but this one church is wrong!




 
B

Baruch

Guest
#18
As the scriptures show, being filled with the Spirit is often accompanied by miraculous things such as casting out devils, preaching, prophesying , tongues etc. By making special mention of the fact that they were filled with the Spirit at these times, it should be common sense that they were not always necessarily filled with the Spirit, only at those occasions for which it was required.
Matthew 10: 18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

I do not see any specific instructions for believers let alone His disciples to seek an infilling of the Spirit in order to serve Him. Do you? If they are to take no thought how or what they are to speak, then that means take no thought about being infilled with the Spirit in order to minister to others or to walk in Him either.

Paul was just commenting on the power of the Spirit so that no one thinks of Paul more than they ought to think... that his service and ministry was not done by the power of persuasion of a man's speech.

If we are to be always ready to give an answer for the faith we profess in... then telling someone to take pause so one can get an infilling of the Spirit to speak the words God would have him or her speak... well... even that is not being practised by Pentecostal. So why do that which is totally unnecessary and contrary to what is plainly written for ministering... be necessary and essenytial for worship or to follow Him?

Because something supernatural happen, and everyone "involved" are trying to wrap their heads around it to make it mean something in their walk with the Lord.... and everyone is saying something different about what the similar experience means ( examples: continual filling, another baptism of the Holy Spirit, an anointing, a sanctification of the Spirit, receiving joy, receiving power, receiving fire, etc, etc.) and yet supposedly.. it is being done by the same One Spirit. Not.

Once you receive the Holy Spirit as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus, we are filled with Him and thus we are sealed and preserved, and saved as His. To move away from that love of the truth is labouring in unbelief after signs and lying wonders.
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#19
So you say you are filled with the Spirit every morning which is certainly possible, so what miraculous things accompany that, do you speak in tongues, do you cast out devils, do you prophesy, see visions etc? The thing is while the Spirit indwells every believer, not every believer is filled with the Spirit.
Just to clarify your reference to my statement: I am quoting it below:

"Resting in Jesus to me means that I am filled with the Spirit so that each morning I wake up, I know He is with me always to walk in the Spirit in following Jesus Christ, My Good Shepherd."

I know that with your mindset and practise, you are reading the above quote as implying a continual filling happening every morning, but you are ignoring the quote in regards to the rest of my post as you are doing with the Book of Acts in reading its implications while ignoring the whole content of the New Testament.

So to clarify officially in this forum from misreading that singular statement by itself, I do not seek an infilling of the Spirit every morning because I am filled. I am filled throughout the day as I am filled when I go to sleep at night. How else can the Holy Spirit fulfill the role of the Comforter? How else can Jesus keep His promise to be with us always? How else can Jesus be Our Good Shepherd? He is not a hireling that we seek each day to help us to live as His or else we are not His... because we are His, bought with a price and sealed with the Holy Ghost.

As it explains on this website the difference between the indwelling of the Spirit and the filling of the Spirit
http://www.gotquestions.org/Spirit-filled.html
I politely thank you for providing the link, but I disagree. To believe that there is a filling of the Spirit to seek makes it hard for any believer to say that they are not preaching another spirit to receive. You are either filled and have the Spirit of God in you or..... you are taking up a rudiment found in the world as they seek after other spirits to receive and yet not able to, and so it is a continual seeking of those spirits.

Example... a medium seeking contacts with the spirit world.

New age channelers seeking the spirit guide to come

Yoga meditationers in Khundalini, an Eastern mysticism sharing similar expereinces that Pentecostal and charismatics are having of receiving peace, power, fire, and other similar descriptive events.

You all say you know that Satan will try to mimick God's work, but if it was already in the world before Jesus Christ, then God would have us stand apart from the world so He can save those He would call out of the occult to be witnesses as in word and deeds standing apart from the occults.

And yes, there is an Indian tribe on the internet that starts with a "W" that return to their Indian ways, adapting their cultures and practises with calling for the "Spirit of Jesus"... just as they did in the old days in calling for the "Great Spirit".

Does it make it right for a born again medium to christianized his or her practise in calling for the Spirit of Christ? Then why would God have us mimick a rudiment already found in the world? God is not the copycat. Satan is. So something is wrong here.

Some churches are already catching new agers from coming into their churches, but if a church practise in the same rudiment as they are, how can they know? And as an example of practise already found in the world before the day of Pentecost came, God would have us stand apart from the world by word and deed in that tongues are not a stand alone gift as it is to come with interpretation to stand apart from the world's tongues.... where there is no interpretation.

Indwelling is permanent, the filling is not necessarily. So being filled with the Spirit is certainly something that can be achieved (n.b. the command to be filled with the Spirit in Eph 5:18) that is directly related to our obedience etc
Ephesians 5:18 is the command to remain sober as they are filled with the Spirit as opposing being drunk with wine wherein there is excess. That is the obedience.

and it is quite usual to be filled with the Spirit after seeking God, and fairly typical for a christian not to be filled with the Spirit if they have not prayed for a week for example.
If one gets drunk... no amount of praying to be filled with the Spirit is going to remove that drunkenness. So why do believers think that it is going to happen when they are sober? All that does is cause worrying about being able, and yet we are to be free to cast all our anxieties upon the Lord for He cares for us.

Is salvation a free gift or not? Is the receiving of the Holy Spirit given by promise or not? Then the continual filling of the Spirit would make the promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit as a gift from an Indian Giver, but God is not an Indian Giver. He doesn't give a gift and then takes it back.

Mercy is not getting what we deserve... Hell. Grace is getting what we do not deserve: Heaven. Both are found by the faith in Jesus Christ.

I think you may not be realising the differences between the indwelling and infilling of the Spirit, and walking in and being filled with the Spirit.
I know what you are saying and that is why I oppose it in defending my faith.

I will point out that there are Charismatic Catholics, and yet locally I have heard from Pentecostal/ Charismatics alot that Catholics are going to hell. When I point out that they speak in tongues as well... one waffled and said that maybe they are saved.

So I ask you, in all this purported move of the "Spirit", how come no one is being corrected? How can Catholics still be Catholics? How is it that in other churches, believers are defining this other supernatural event of the spirit to mean something else as some will insist that others are just not grounded in the Word and don't know what they are saying?

You say that you do not believe the teaching about the necessity of prayer language so the devil don't know what you are saying. How many here believes as you do? how many other "disagreements" about the "move of the Spirit" do all the Pentecostal and Charismatics in this forum agree on?

And more importnatly, why is it that it takes a Non-Pentecostal/ Non-Charismatic to broach those "disagreements"?

I suspect it is because no one is really sure and thus they do not want to say anything against the "Spirit" for fear of committing the unpardonable sin.

Is my suspicion nonsense? Then where is your thread in debunking what you consider a disagreement about tongues being used so the devil don't know what they are saying? Is it not love to correct one another? Are there not other disagreements that Pentecostals need to post threads on so that non-Pentecostals/ and non-Charismatics can at least say you are not purposefully ignoring them as you desire all your members to be like-minded in Christ and to use the gifts properly and in order?

Or will that cause division within the ranks and thus explains why the Lord has to raise up believers outside the church to give you all pause? Which you are not presently.

In any event, it is apparent that you are not hearing me, and so I am dropping the subject with you with His help and by His grace. If you are desiring to understand me, then seek the face of Jesus in prayer in your language so that you know you are talking to the Bridegroom. He is the Way God the Father wants you to do it. He will speak to you. He will provide the answers in the scriptures. Pray that you are able to receive it.
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#20
The "Holy laughter movement" are you talking about the one that started in Canada, and moved to Redding with Bill Johnson?

I just left a church here in Fresno that was tied into that one! It was a nightmare! Beware of False Prophets!

They have a likeness of God, but they are wolves! They seem to conjure up the Holy Spirit, You don't have to do that!

The Pastors wife told me not to use the word sin anymore! She wanted me to find another word to use.
Any time I would show my satifaction in my relationship with the Lord, she would tell me I was wrong to feel that way.

I can not speak for the whole movement, but this one church is wrong!
In 1994, the 700 Club reported that the "holy laughter" movement was no longer a Pentecostal/ Charismatic streamline church event for it was happening in Catholics, Protestant, and other mainline churches. Granted, it was not happening in every church, but they were reporting that it was not confined in the Pentcostal/ Charismatic churches anymore.

I am certain that your reference is correct as far as origin goes, but in 1994 was when I heard of it and came across it.... before I heard about it in the news. I thank the Lord for keeping me from falling after that movement in serving it and all its false "glory".

I am glad that you know you do not have to "conjure" up the Holy Spirit just as one does not need to call for the Holy Spirit for He is in us as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ.

Keep your eyes on Jesus. That false teaching will come around in different ways and subtle forms and campaigning platforms to seek another spirit to receive. So beware that also. Just look at the precedent of that movement that you know is false... as a small leaven leavens the whole lump.. so will they scale them back to that small leaven again.. to leaven into another lump or another movement of the "Spirit". That is why Jesus warned to avoid false prophets and false spirits is to narrow the way back to the straight gate as Jesus is the Door, and there are no invitations to seek the Spirit at all for He is in us as our seal of adoption for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ.

Thank you for your reply and for your sharing that unfortunate encounter as not being of the Lord.