Was Paul a deciever or implant by the Jews?

WomanLovesTX · Mar 14, 2011

“Was Saul (who became Paul) actually a deceiver of the early church and Apostles as the Jews claim?”

Was it Christ who warned us of the anti-christ, preaching in His name? Jesus spoke before hand that Judas Iscariot would betray him. He spoke before hand that Peter would deny him 3 times before the cock crows. Jesus spoke of the temple destruction, which was also during the immediate future.

Could the followng be a minstranslation or typo?

1 Corinthians 4:15-16 (King James Version)

15For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

Strong's is really good at putting into the concordance every occurence of "then". 2015 occurences.

and "yet" 655 occurences

Yet, "Yeast" zero occurences for KJV or BibleGateWay.com.

3080 occurences of "me" - per BibleGateway.com, but
"me" is not listed in Strong's

contemplative · Mar 14, 2011

WomanLovesTX said:

The word is #3450. It's a common personal pronoun.

zone · Mar 14, 2011

WomanLovesTX said:

well.....here we go again. anybody remember john corrigan from before the CRASH?

OVERCOMING CHRISTIANITY?

christianity is pagan? paul was a deceiver? let's get back to our HEBREW ROOTS? (don't forget the cuzzens and rabbi cohen prophecies of the Four Waves)

New Perspective on Paul

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

New Perspective on Paul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Defense of the Old Perspective on Paul

What Did St. Paul Really Say?

The following is transcribed from a seminar given by Phil Johnson at the London Reformed Baptist Seminary, meeting at the Metropolitan Tabernacle, London, on 10 January 2004.

In this hour, I want to give you a brief critique of a theological trend that began on your side of the Atlantic and is rapidly gaining influence among evangelicals in America.
It is a point of view known as "The New Perspective on Paul." Some of you will be familiar with that label. It's the nickname for a school of thought that suggests we need to overhaul our interpretation of the Pauline epistles and completely revamp our understanding of the apostle Paul's theology. And that, in turn, obviously, has serious and far-reaching ramifications for all of New Testament theology.

I hesitate to label the New Perspective a movement, because it lacks the cohesiveness of a movement. At this point, it's a loose aggregate of similar opinions. The three New Testament scholars who are the leading advocates of the New Perspective don't entirely agree with one another on some of the most basic points of Christian doctrine. Two of the three don't even claim to be evangelicals.

There's no single spokesperson for the view, and no organization exists to propagate it.

And yet the influence of the New Perspective has been felt profoundly across the spectrum of Christian denominations—including the evangelical world, where the New Perspective has recently been embraced and propagated by some surprising advocates.

The New Perspective has been promoted in America, for example, by John Armstrong, of Reformation and Revival ministries. He was once regarded as a champion of historic, confessional particular Baptist theology. Now he is aggressively peddling the New Perspective on Paul in his journal, in his newsletters, and in his conferences.

CONTINUE READING.....
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/new_p.html

zone · Mar 14, 2011

Challenging the New Perspective

Challenging the New Perspective | The Paul Page

PBUH · Mar 14, 2011

WomanLovesTX said:

Yes the verse

JESUS prophesied "...IF ANOTHER COMES, IN HIS OWN NAME, YOU (Scribes and Pharisees) WILL RECEIVE HIM"
(John 5:43)

Applies to Paul.

JESUS said to them " I SAW SATAN FALL, LIKE LIGHTNING, FROM HEAVEN"
(Luke 10:18)

So the great DRAGON was cast out FROM HEAVEN, that SERPENT of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; HE WAS CAST TO THE EARTH AND HIS ANGELS WERE CAST OUT WITH HIM "
(Revelation 12:9. Matthew 13:39)

As SAUL journeyed he came near Damascus and suddenly A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN (LIGHTNING) shone around him and he fell to the ground
(Acts 9:3,4)

He systematically undid all the work that Jesus pbuh

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)

Paul declares it's ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols

For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than THESE NECESSARY THINGS:
That you ABSTAIN FROM MEATS offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled and from fornication...
(Acts 15:28:29)

But I (Jesus) have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a STUMBLING BLOCK before the children of Israel, TO EAT THINGS SACRIFICED TO IDOLS
(Revelation 2:14)

Jesus was circumcised, Paul rejected circumcision:

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived. (Luke 2:21)

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. (Acts 15:1)

Jesus taught Salvation comes through Faith and Works, Paul distorted it:

Jesus taught salvation is attained by keeping the commandments, physical prayer, fasting, and observing the Law of Moses. Paul neglected these commands and distorted the Path to Salvation preached by Jesus.

Paul said that “salvation comes through faith and grace” which is exactly what the missionaries are saying today. Let us read the words of Jesus.

Many historians have found Paul has taken christianity down a different path.

“Paul abolished the Law, which was followed and preached by Jesus (pbuh), and corrupted the whole religion, giving it a new form. The main ambition behind all this was, in his own words, “to win a larger number” of followers; the followers of a new religion “the Pauline Christianity”. (Follow Jesus or Follow Paul p. 69)

Abraham pbuh had to leave his comfort zone to follow the right path. Are you ready to leave your comfort zone and leave Paul behind and follow the teachings of Jesus ?

Information mainly sourced from The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver

PneumaPsucheSoma · Mar 14, 2011

WomanLovesTX said:

You need to put down the Strong's before you hurt yourself, if it's not already too late.

In 1Cor. 4:16, followers is mimetes (G3402). It means imitate or follow as an example. It indicates a fellow-imitator; a fellow-disciple. Follow him as an imitator of Christ.

Good grief. EVERY wind of doctrine. What's the next belief of the moment?

PneumaPsucheSoma · Mar 14, 2011

PBUH said:

Yes the verse

JESUS prophesied "...IF ANOTHER COMES, IN HIS OWN NAME, YOU (Scribes and Pharisees) WILL RECEIVE HIM"
(John 5:43)

Applies to Paul.

JESUS said to them " I SAW SATAN FALL, LIKE LIGHTNING, FROM HEAVEN"
(Luke 10:18)

So the great DRAGON was cast out FROM HEAVEN, that SERPENT of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; HE WAS CAST TO THE EARTH AND HIS ANGELS WERE CAST OUT WITH HIM "
(Revelation 12:9. Matthew 13:39)

As SAUL journeyed he came near Damascus and suddenly A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN (LIGHTNING) shone around him and he fell to the ground
(Acts 9:3,4)

He systematically undid all the work that Jesus pbuh

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)

Paul declares it's ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols

For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than THESE NECESSARY THINGS:
That you ABSTAIN FROM MEATS offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled and from fornication...
(Acts 15:28:29)

But I (Jesus) have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a STUMBLING BLOCK before the children of Israel, TO EAT THINGS SACRIFICED TO IDOLS
(Revelation 2:14)

Jesus was circumcised, Paul rejected circumcision:

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived. (Luke 2:21)

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. (Acts 15:1)

Jesus taught Salvation comes through Faith and Works, Paul distorted it:

Jesus taught salvation is attained by keeping the commandments, physical prayer, fasting, and observing the Law of Moses. Paul neglected these commands and distorted the Path to Salvation preached by Jesus.

Paul said that “salvation comes through faith and grace” which is exactly what the missionaries are saying today. Let us read the words of Jesus.

Many historians have found Paul has taken christianity down a different path.

“Paul abolished the Law, which was followed and preached by Jesus (pbuh), and corrupted the whole religion, giving it a new form. The main ambition behind all this was, in his own words, “to win a larger number” of followers; the followers of a new religion “the Pauline Christianity”. (Follow Jesus or Follow Paul p. 69)

Abraham pbuh had to leave his comfort zone to follow the right path. Are you ready to leave your comfort zone and leave Paul behind and follow the teachings of Jesus ?

Information mainly sourced from The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver

All that needs to be addressed in your garbage post is:

light is phos (G5457)
lightning is astrape (G796)

The rest is Grace over Law.

Scotth1960 · Mar 14, 2011

PBUH said:

Yes the verse

JESUS prophesied "...IF ANOTHER COMES, IN HIS OWN NAME, YOU (Scribes and Pharisees) WILL RECEIVE HIM"
(John 5:43)

Applies to Paul.

JESUS said to them " I SAW SATAN FALL, LIKE LIGHTNING, FROM HEAVEN"
(Luke 10:18)

So the great DRAGON was cast out FROM HEAVEN, that SERPENT of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; HE WAS CAST TO THE EARTH AND HIS ANGELS WERE CAST OUT WITH HIM "
(Revelation 12:9. Matthew 13:39)

As SAUL journeyed he came near Damascus and suddenly A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN (LIGHTNING) shone around him and he fell to the ground
(Acts 9:3,4)

He systematically undid all the work that Jesus pbuh

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)

Paul declares it's ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols

For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than THESE NECESSARY THINGS:
That you ABSTAIN FROM MEATS offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled and from fornication...
(Acts 15:28:29)

But I (Jesus) have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a STUMBLING BLOCK before the children of Israel, TO EAT THINGS SACRIFICED TO IDOLS
(Revelation 2:14)

Jesus was circumcised, Paul rejected circumcision:

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived. (Luke 2:21)

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. (Acts 15:1)

Jesus taught Salvation comes through Faith and Works, Paul distorted it:

Jesus taught salvation is attained by keeping the commandments, physical prayer, fasting, and observing the Law of Moses. Paul neglected these commands and distorted the Path to Salvation preached by Jesus.

Paul said that “salvation comes through faith and grace” which is exactly what the missionaries are saying today. Let us read the words of Jesus.

Many historians have found Paul has taken christianity down a different path.

“Paul abolished the Law, which was followed and preached by Jesus (pbuh), and corrupted the whole religion, giving it a new form. The main ambition behind all this was, in his own words, “to win a larger number” of followers; the followers of a new religion “the Pauline Christianity”. (Follow Jesus or Follow Paul p. 69)

Abraham pbuh had to leave his comfort zone to follow the right path. Are you ready to leave your comfort zone and leave Paul behind and follow the teachings of Jesus ?

Information mainly sourced from The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver

Paul didn't teach that salvation comes through "faith alone". That is the distortion, misreading of Paul, based on Martin Luther's Augustinian fatalistic (deterministic) religion. Luther added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28, making Romans 3:28 contradict and disagree with James 2:24. Paul doesn't pit faith against works. Ephesians 2:10 follows immediately after Ephesians 2:8-9. Protestants separate Ephesians 2:8-9 from Ephesians 2:10. Eastern Orthodox/ Catholic exegetes don't make a big gap between these verses. So, we are to follow both Jesus and Paul, both Jesus and Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, James, Peter, and Jude. The apostles of the NT teach the same Gospel that Jesus preached. There is no contradiction/opposition between them.
Scott Harrington Erie PA

zone · Mar 14, 2011

PBUH said:

people of the muslim religion are free to post here, clearly.
but there are lines that should not be crossed on a Christian forum.

if i went to an Islamist forum and posted the things you do here i would be banned or worse.
please have some respect.

you will find no converts to Islam here.

zone · Mar 14, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

hehehe.
this thing isn't new at all, the judaizers have to undermine our brother paul of course.
sigh. been here done this.
ready to do it again.

zone · Mar 14, 2011

Scotth1960 said:

"Et tu, Brute?"

dmdave17 · Mar 14, 2011

I agree with Scotth1960. Paul did not write that faith superseded the law. Rather, in Romans 10, verse 4, he writes "Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." I looked up "culmination" in the dictionary and the definitions were "to reach the highest point, summit, or highest development, to end or arrive at a final stage." There is nothing there about "cancel", or "replace".

Paul was not debunking the law. But God needed a way to credit righteousness to the Gentiles, who had never come under the law, since He wanted to include them in His salvation. In Isaiah 49, verse 6, God told Isaiah "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth." (emphasis added). So like Abraham. whose belief was "credited to him as righteousness", Paul stated that belief in Christ was sufficient for Gentiles to achieve salvation. Further along in Romans 10, he wrote "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved." (v. 9-10)

There can be no quarrel with this statement. Christ, himself, railed against the Pharisees who obeyed "the law" to the letter but harbored sin and wickedness in their hearts. So, I don't believe that Paul was saying that the law had no value. What he was saying was that the law was insufficient to guarantee salvation. You can be as lawful as you wish, but without true faith in Christ, it is not enough. The moral of the story about "The Rich and the Kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:16-25), was not just that it was hard for the rich to get into Heaven, but that observance of the law was not enough.

Therefore, I think it is unfair to say that Paul was advocating a total disregard for the law. After all, the ten commandments still apply even to this day. He was saying that the law was not enough. It would appear that most of the key Apostles agreed with him, since the church elders issued a letter to the Gentiles saying "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things."

Since I believe in the unerring truth of the Scriptures, I believe that Paul underwent a miraculous transformation on the road to Damascus. As such I am willing to give him "the benefit of the doubt" when it comes to his statements about salvation.

PneumaPsucheSoma · Mar 14, 2011

zone said:

Yep. Same song. Zillionth verse.

PneumaPsucheSoma · Mar 14, 2011

zone said:

The Quran (Arabic for Crayon?) was considered by Aesop for inclusion in his "canon" of fables, but it failed to be convincing enough, so it was reduced to cult-religious reading only.

livingbygrace · Mar 14, 2011

What a stupid thread

If Paul was a deceiver Peter and the other leaders of the church were duped because they all embraced his message, Peter even likened it to the scriptures

So if the early chiurch leaders including those who had been Christ's disciples were all duped then we can't rely on any book after the Gospels as truth, if they were written by such gullible people. So the NT consists of four books only, there you go

Also we may as well call into question Christ's judgement for choosing such gullible people to spread the message concerning himself of salvation. People who could not recognise a deceiver in their midst.

PneumaPsucheSoma · Mar 14, 2011

livingbygrace said:

What a stupid thread

If Paul was a deceiver Peter and the other leaders of the church were duped because they all embraced his message, Peter even likened it to the scriptures

So if the early chiurch leaders including those who had been Christ's disciples were all duped then we can't rely on any book after the Gospels as truth, if they were written by such gullible people. So the NT consists of four books only, there you go

Also we may as well call into question Christ's judgement for choosing such gullible people to spread the message concerning himself of salvation. People who could not recognise a deceiver in their midst.

E-X-A-C-T-L-Y-!!!!

AnandaHya · Mar 14, 2011

If you start questioning one section of the Bible as not God's Holy word then you might as well throw out the whole book because you just invited the Devil into your heart and mind. you can start taking apart other sections and other thoughts, pick and choose what is nice and comfortable with your delusions and demons and sit back and relax in Hell.

I mean if you want to believe it, its your choice but remember people warned you, you were going down the wrong path.

(for those who believe that "Paul is a deceiver")

AnandaHya · Mar 14, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

no your wrong all you have to do is tell people she's muslim.

AnandaHya · Mar 14, 2011

zone said:

i still hold that salvation is through GRACE alone and that Faith is a fruit that is displayed when the seed God plants in our hearts take root.

Grace means that God saves us. Faith shows the world our acceptance of Grace. Salvation happened when God decided to save us, and we decided to listen.

PBUH · Mar 14, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

Where do you get your material lol

Was Paul a deciever or implant by the Jews?

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