The Problem of Evil

[xphineasx]

I was wondering how people in the forum handle the problem of evil.

The problem of evil states this: Given the amount of suffering and evil in the world (No, not just man made suffering. But things like natural disasters, droughts, floods, birth defects, miscarriages, plagues and other atrocities than people have no control over) that there is a logical contradiction in claiming a God is omnipotent, omniscient and Omni-Benevolent.
God can be 2 of these things, logically, but not all 3 at once, or else evil and suffering (At least the suffering that people have no control over) should not exist.

Omnipotent and Omni-Benevolent: Evil happens because God is unaware evil is happening.

Omniscient + Omni- Benevolent: Evil happens because God can not stop evil

Omnipotent + Omniscient : Evil happens because God wither doesn't care if humans suffer, or WANTS humans to suffer.

 

[Protection_Retribution]

It's a dilemma. Thats for sure, but only if you believe in god so have fun with that

 

[xphineasx]

It's a dilemma. Thats for sure, but only if you believe in god so have fun with that

Well, I don't believe in God. So It's really not a dilemma for ME.

 

[Protection_Retribution]

WOO *HIGH FIVE* You can toast marshmallows in hell with me

 

[xphineasx]

WOO *HIGH FIVE* You can toast marshmallows in hell with me

XDDD Hmmm. Devil smores.

 

[jimmydiggs]

The problem of Evil ultimately is a question raised based on morality. It evaporates as an objection by the athiest, as the atheist doesn't believe an objective moral standard exists to judge evil from that which is morally good.

However, for the purpose of this discussion I will evaluate the question of... "Why does what is evil according to the Judeo-Christian tradition take place, of God is all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful?" As that is generally how people actually mean to ask the question.



So why do nature-induced evils occur? First we must decide what exactly is a nature-induced evil. Since this is in evaluation of the Judeo-Christian world view, I would say most of what you have listed isn't actually morally evil.

natural disasters, droughts, floods, birth defects, miscarriages, plagues and other atrocities than people have no control over

So far the only two that could possibly be tied to a moral evil, would be Birth Defects(miscarriage would be part of that) and Plagues. The only reason why this might be morally evil, is that people die. However, death itself is not declared to be morally evil in the bible. If it did, we would all be in trouble. The only thing death-relate that is proclaimed to be immorla (whether you agree or not with the bible) is murder. Murder being the unjustified killing of another human being.


So the way you have asked it, should really be renamed, "The Problem of Suffering."

So why does nature-induced suffering occur?

God gave Adam dominion over the world (Gen. 1:28). When he rebelled against God, he set in motion an entire series of events and changed the very nature of man and creation. Both were affected by sin. Creation was no longer a paradise, but bore thorns and thistles (Gen. 3:17-18; Rom. 8:22). People became sinful (Rom. 5:12; Eph. 2:3), who were haters of God (Rom. 3:19-12), etc. The only conclusion to such a situation is death. Jesus said, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened" (Matt. 24:22).
Why is there evil and suffering in the world? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry <--- click

God allows evil to occur partly for reasons we do know and partly for those we do not. We know that God uses evil to discipline people (Prov. 3:11) and to teach them (Prov. 15:32). But we cannot know all the reasons that God has for allowing evil and suffering in the world. It is not logically necessary that since God has not stopped evil and suffering in the world, that He cannot. God could be using suffering for His divine plan, in order to teach, for discipline, because people are free, etc. The existence of suffering does not at all mean that God cannot stop all of it. It means that He simply has chosen not to do so.


If God is all powerful and loving, why is there suffering in the world? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry <--- click explains several objections

YouTube - Since Evil & Suffering Exist, A Loving God Cannot ...? <--- Human induced evil/suffering

Ultimately, the existance of nature-induced suffering isn't a moral question, but rather a question of personal convenience. You can not morally condemn something by a moral system you philosophically deny.

I hope I have addressed this somewhat satisfactorally.

 

[xphineasx]

The problem of Evil ultimately is a question raised based on morality. It evaporates as an objection by the athiest, as the atheist doesn't believe an objective moral standard exists to judge evil from that which is morally good.

However, for the purpose of this discussion I will evaluate the question of... "Why does what is evil according to the Judeo-Christian tradition take place, of God is all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful?" As that is generally how people actually mean to ask the question.



So why do nature-induced evils occur? First we must decide what exactly is a nature-induced evil. Since this is in evaluation of the Judeo-Christian world view, I would say most of what you have listed isn't actually morally evil.


So far the only two that could possibly be tied to a moral evil, would be Birth Defects(miscarriage would be part of that) and Plagues. The only reason why this might be morally evil, is that people die. However, death itself is not declared to be morally evil in the bible. If it did, we would all be in trouble. The only thing death-relate that is proclaimed to be immorla (whether you agree or not with the bible) is murder. Murder being the unjustified killing of another human being.


So the way you have asked it, should really be renamed, "The Problem of Suffering."

So why does nature-induced suffering occur?





YouTube - Since Evil & Suffering Exist, A Loving God Cannot ...? <--- Human induced evil/suffering

Ultimately, the existance of nature-induced suffering isn't a moral question, but rather a question of personal convenience. You can not morally condemn something by a moral system you philosophically deny.

I hope I have addressed this somewhat satisfactorally.

FIRST of all: Atheism doesn't inherently mean the rejection of an objective moral code.
However, I am an existentialist, so I DO reject an objective moral code.
But that doesn't mean I don't have morals, and I don't have a system by which to determine morality.

And Death, in most cases, is awful. Human suffering is awful.

So let's back up. First of all, why do you think that floods and droughts and hurricanes that kill people aren't bad?

And then....you're blaming Adam and Eve for....things people have no control over? Like the Weather?

 

[MaggieMye]

Christians are not called to 'handle' evil. We are called to OVERCOME and CONQUER evil. We have been given authority over all evil, just as Christ was given so by the Father. And Christ IN US reigns.

Maggie

 

[jimmydiggs]

FIRST of all: Atheism doesn't inherently mean the rejection of an objective moral code.

Prove it. Sam Harris has tried, but all he does is play semantical word games instead of address Ontology.

However, I am an existentialist

Ahhh, so you do have blind faith.

, so I DO reject an objective moral code.

Yes, because this would require a God.

But that doesn't mean I don't have morals,

If morals don't exist, then you can't have morals. How can you have something that doesn't exist?

It's like being totally lost in the middle of a desert, and trying to decide which direction to go when you come to a street sight that isn't labeled.

Based on this sign, which way is the quickest way to albequerque?

Just as with morality, if you reject that morality actually exists, you're trying to use something that doesn't exist. It's just a giant semantical word game based on a subjective collection of personal opinions based on cluture, era, up-bringing, and brain chemistry.

and I don't have a system by which to determine morality.

So if you can't determine good from bad how can you condemn something?

And Death, in most cases, is awful. Human suffering is awful.

Says who, the humans? That's subjective and arbitrary. It's not the makings of a basis upon which to condemn that which displeases us, as it is just a collection of personal opinions based on culture, era, up-bringing, personal self-fullfilling desires, and brain chemistry.

So let's back up. First of all, why do you think that floods and droughts and hurricanes that kill people aren't bad?

You're attempting to make something into a moral issue that is amoral... Sure, it's undesirable, but what makes it immoral? Because you semantically define it as such? Because you don't like it? So what if you don't like it, that doesn't make it intrinsically evil...

And then....you're blaming Adam and Eve for....things people have no control over? Like the Weather?

Actually, we can take a minimal amount of control over weather... Just thought I'd throw that out... Google : "Cloud-Seeding"

Despite that, Adam and Eve brought in sin to the world. Creation suffered as a result. Check up on Genesis 3 to learn more about that.

17 To Adam he said, &#8220;Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, &#8216;You must not eat from it,&#8217;

&#8220;Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.&#8221; 20 Adam[c] named his wife Eve,[d] because she would become the mother of all the living.

 

[resurrection33]

I was wondering how people in the forum handle the problem of evil.

The problem of evil states this: Given the amount of suffering and evil in the world (No, not just man made suffering. But things like natural disasters, droughts, floods, birth defects, miscarriages, plagues and other atrocities than people have no control over) that there is a logical contradiction in claiming a God is omnipotent, omniscient and Omni-Benevolent.
God can be 2 of these things, logically, but not all 3 at once, or else evil and suffering (At least the suffering that people have no control over) should not exist.

Omnipotent and Omni-Benevolent: Evil happens because God is unaware evil is happening.

Omniscient + Omni- Benevolent: Evil happens because God can not stop evil

Omnipotent + Omniscient : Evil happens because God wither doesn't care if humans suffer, or WANTS humans to suffer.

There is evil because the Lord has given us a free will, and we choose sometimes to do evil things.

When we do evil, we experience unpleasant consequences, extremely unpleasant if the evil is bad enough, so sooner or later we stop doing evil things.

 

[Gentile]

I was wondering how people in the forum handle the problem of evil.

The problem of evil states this: Given the amount of suffering and evil in the world (No, not just man made suffering. But things like natural disasters, droughts, floods, birth defects, miscarriages, plagues and other atrocities than people have no control over) that there is a logical contradiction in claiming a God is omnipotent, omniscient and Omni-Benevolent.
God can be 2 of these things, logically, but not all 3 at once, or else evil and suffering (At least the suffering that people have no control over) should not exist.

Omnipotent and Omni-Benevolent: Evil happens because God is unaware evil is happening.

Omniscient + Omni- Benevolent: Evil happens because God can not stop evil

Omnipotent + Omniscient : Evil happens because God wither doesn't care if humans suffer, or WANTS humans to suffer.

I say none of the above....but its because of SIN.

 

[pickles]

I was wondering how people in the forum handle the problem of evil.

The problem of evil states this: Given the amount of suffering and evil in the world (No, not just man made suffering. But things like natural disasters, droughts, floods, birth defects, miscarriages, plagues and other atrocities than people have no control over) that there is a logical contradiction in claiming a God is omnipotent, omniscient and Omni-Benevolent.
God can be 2 of these things, logically, but not all 3 at once, or else evil and suffering (At least the suffering that people have no control over) should not exist.

Omnipotent and Omni-Benevolent: Evil happens because God is unaware evil is happening.

Omniscient + Omni- Benevolent: Evil happens because God can not stop evil

Omnipotent + Omniscient : Evil happens because God wither doesn't care if humans suffer, or WANTS humans to suffer.

I cannot give you the answers you want.
I can only share what I have come to know in Jesus.
That in all that one sees and knows as sin, sorrow, death, evil, when given in Jesus to God Our Father.
It is changed, brings life, goodness and love.
Not through removal, but transformed in the heart in Jesus.
Bringing through His Love, that which is glorious and good.
Scripture says, we die in Jesus, so that we will live in Jesus!
I cannot explain or give an answer that makes sence, I can only witness to the perfect, that comes in the love of Jesus.
I hope you will find what you seek.
I can only say, it is found in Jesus.

God bless.
pickles

 

[phil36]

I was wondering how people in the forum handle the problem of evil.

The problem of evil states this: Given the amount of suffering and evil in the world (No, not just man made suffering. But things like natural disasters, droughts, floods, birth defects, miscarriages, plagues and other atrocities than people have no control over) that there is a logical contradiction in claiming a God is omnipotent, omniscient and Omni-Benevolent.
God can be 2 of these things, logically, but not all 3 at once, or else evil and suffering (At least the suffering that people have no control over) should not exist.

Omnipotent and Omni-Benevolent: Evil happens because God is unaware evil is happening.

Omniscient + Omni- Benevolent: Evil happens because God can not stop evil

Omnipotent + Omniscient : Evil happens because God wither doesn't care if humans suffer, or WANTS humans to suffer.

Hi,

The answer is none of the above, your starting point is that God is not incontrol, yet scripture plainly tells us he is.

Anyhow if you would like to find out some of the 'why's ' read the following:

Genesis ch 1-3 (for natural disasters..the curse is on the ground)

How does God overcome all that went wrong?

John 1:1-18; John 3:16.

 

[giantone]

I was wondering how people in the forum handle the problem of evil.

The problem of evil states this: Given the amount of suffering and evil in the world (No, not just man made suffering. But things like natural disasters, droughts, floods, birth defects, miscarriages, plagues and other atrocities than people have no control over) that there is a logical contradiction in claiming a God is omnipotent, omniscient and Omni-Benevolent.
God can be 2 of these things, logically, but not all 3 at once, or else evil and suffering (At least the suffering that people have no control over) should not exist.

Omnipotent and Omni-Benevolent: Evil happens because God is unaware evil is happening.

Omniscient + Omni- Benevolent: Evil happens because God can not stop evil

Omnipotent + Omniscient : Evil happens because God wither doesn't care if humans suffer, or WANTS humans to suffer.

That is very good logic, and your right as well as wrong. God is all powerful, but God can't do certain things, like go against His own nature or words, when Adam sinned in the garden it gave the devil a licence to mess with mankind and thats why we have these problems.

When Jesus was being tempted by the devil in desert and the devil offered him all the kingdoms in the Earth, Jesus didn't say, you don't have the authority to do this, He knew Satan did have the authority to make that offer.

 

[xphineasx]

That is very good logic, and your right as well as wrong. God is all powerful, but God can't do certain things, like go against His own nature or words, when Adam sinned in the garden it gave the devil a licence to mess with mankind and thats why we have these problems.

When Jesus was being tempted by the devil in desert and the devil offered him all the kingdoms in the Earth, Jesus didn't say, you don't have the authority to do this, He knew Satan did have the authority to make that offer.

So God isn't Omnipotent?

 

[Dude653]

Well, I don't believe in God. So It's really not a dilemma for ME.

Then why are you here??

 

[xphineasx]

Prove it. Sam Harris has tried, but all he does is play semantical word games instead of address Ontology.

Atheism is nothing but the failure to accept any God claims. It says nothing about claims about objective morality.

Ahhh, so you do have blind faith.

No? Existentialism isn't a religion, and it isn't about faith. It's simply a philosophy that there is not inherent value places on things, and that all value is assigned by people. That life has no over arching goal, but rather meaning is self-assigned.

Yes, because this would require a God.

No, not really. Karma is a concept that can exist without a God, and implies an objective morality.

If morals don't exist, then you can't have morals. How can you have something that doesn't exist?

Morals don't need to be inherent in the fabric of the universe for me to have them. There are some very real, concrete ways of determining what is beneficial for the social group. Morals are simply accepted behaviors that develop in communal structures to promote social harmony.

It's like being totally lost in the middle of a desert, and trying to decide which direction to go when you come to a street sight that isn't labeled.

Based on this sign, which way is the quickest way to albequerque?

Just as with morality, if you reject that morality actually exists, you're trying to use something that doesn't exist. It's just a giant semantical word game based on a subjective collection of personal opinions based on cluture, era, up-bringing, and brain chemistry.

Yes. Morals are based on culture, era, upbringing and brain chemistry. That's exactly right.

So if you can't determine good from bad how can you condemn something?

I can determine good from bad. I can determine whether something is beneficial or harmful for a social group, whether it will promote or reduce human suffering, etc.

Says who, the humans? That's subjective and arbitrary. It's not the makings of a basis upon which to condemn that which displeases us, as it is just a collection of personal opinions based on culture, era, up-bringing, personal self-fullfilling desires, and brain chemistry.

Yes. See? You're beginning to understand existentialism.

You're attempting to make something into a moral issue that is amoral... Sure, it's undesirable, but what makes it immoral? Because you semantically define it as such? Because you don't like it? So what if you don't like it, that doesn't make it intrinsically evil...

Depends how you define "Evil".

Actually, we can take a minimal amount of control over weather... Just thought I'd throw that out... Google : "Cloud-Seeding"

Despite that, Adam and Eve brought in sin to the world. Creation suffered as a result. Check up on Genesis 3 to learn more about that.

So..Adam and Even cause miscarriages and tornadoes?

 

[xphineasx]

There is evil because the Lord has given us a free will, and we choose sometimes to do evil things.

When we do evil, we experience unpleasant consequences, extremely unpleasant if the evil is bad enough, so sooner or later we stop doing evil things.

How does free Will explain tornadoes, miscarriages, birth defects, floods, droughts, Earth quakes, etc?

 

[xphineasx]

I say none of the above....but its because of SIN.

Once again: How does sin explain natural disasters?

 

[xphineasx]

Hi,

The answer is none of the above, your starting point is that God is not incontrol, yet scripture plainly tells us he is.

Anyhow if you would like to find out some of the 'why's ' read the following:

Genesis ch 1-3 (for natural disasters..the curse is on the ground)

How does God overcome all that went wrong?

John 1:1-18; John 3:16.

So...God causes natural disasters?
So God is not Omni-Benevolent.