The Rod of Gods Anger.

[Deadflesh]

　
I know LOTS and LOTS of men teach that Lucifer was satan(the word lucifer is latin for light bearer) But, its not the case. its TRULY not. Satan was NEVER a "good angel"

1 John 3:8 says Satan has sinned from the BEGINING. Means he ALWAYS sinned. he was NEVER good. Remeber that GOD created Satan.

John 8:44 says that Satan Murdered from the begining. He was MADE to do so. He is the FATHER of lies all he speaks are lies.

SO then Lies, murder, hatred, sin, all comes becasue of Who? the Destroyer.

Isaiah 54:16 says "I have created the waster(destroyer, Code for Satan) to destroy."

SATAN is Gods wrath, GODS anger. When HUMANS are disobedeint, then GODS wrath is revealed agaisnt them in the form of sickness death and sin. it is satan, the demons/powers of darkness. for ALL who dont produce fruit. any TREE that doesnt produce fruit is cut down(by sin, deception, anger, pride, spirits...etc)

Matthew 3:10 says ""And now also the ax is laid to the root of the trees: therefore every tree which brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
The AX is laid at the root of the trees. WHO is the axe?

Isaiah 10:15 says "Shall the ax(satan) boast itself against him that hews therewith? or shall the saw(satan) magnify itself against him that shakes it? as if the rod(Satan, and the forces of darkness) should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood."

The ROD of Gods anger,

Isaiah 10:15 "Woe to the Assyrian(code for SATAN, and the demons), the rod of my anger, in whose hand is the club of my wrath!

Jeremiah 46:22 "Its sound(Egypts/the spirit of the world) moves along like a serpent; For they move on like an army(powers of darkness/gods anger/demons) And come to her as woodcutters with axes."

So the CLUB of Gods wrath is SATAN, advasary. God is angry, that measn YOU dissobeyed the JUDGE, and now the PROSECUTOR(advesary) has legal right to torment you, and have you follow and worship them(in many, many ways) JESUS is our advocate, our defense attourney. You obey HIM and the Advesary has NO legal right to you anymore, you are covered by the BLOOD. You dissobey and then that means the JUDGE found somthing wrong in your testimony, and the Advesary(satan, gods rod of anger) can come agaisnt you, LEAGALY.

So GODS anger is satan. You dissobey GOD and wrath is on you. in the form of demonic opression/possesion sin, and rebellion.

Satan is NOT out from GODS control. Never was. Technically he is bound at the moment from deceiving the WHOLE earth, the gospel cant go out if Satan was free. So Satan can only deceive those who GOD allows him to. the "little season for the devil" is when its the ENTIRE WORLD agaisnt the smal remnant of Gods people., but im gettign off track.

Satan is GODS anger.

2 Samuel 24:1 says "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah."

So 2 Samuel describes the anger of the LORD as moving david to number(take a census agaisnt) Israel

1 Chronicles 21:1 says "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

2 Samuel, and 1 Chronicles tells of the SAME event. One says the anger of the LORD, the other says SATAN. Why? there are no coincidences with God, and no mistake. so Why? Satan is the ANGER of the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:20 says "The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days you shall consider it perfectly."

Jeremiah 51:6 tells us to flee babylon ""Flee from Babylon! Run for your lives! Do not be destroyed because of her sins. It is time for the LORD's vengeance; he will pay her what she deserves."

Flee from What?

Jeremiah 51:45 says "My people, go you out of the middle of her, and deliver you every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD."

Flee from the Anger of the LORD. GODS peopel need to leave BABYLON(false church) in order to NOT be under the anger of the LORD. which is SATAN.

(Who is Mystery Babylon? --->http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...el-its-spirit-just-not-what-people-think.html)

Why would GOD cause his anger to rise up? If Satan IS Gods anger, why would GOD allow Him to attack?(spiritually)

2 Thessalonians 2:11 -12 says "And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error(Strong delusion), that they should believe a lie: that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If Jesus is GODS truth, and ALL who dont come to the light so there deeds of flesh are exposed, and submit to JESUS 100% and are led by the spirit of GOD to put to death the deeds of the flesh, but instead LOVE the flesh and wickedness, and unrighteousness, then GODS anger burns agaisnt them. SATAN comes agaisnt them in the form of a FLOOD of lies, deception

(check out the FLOOD---->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/28470-end-comes-flood.html)

Gods ANGER is the wood cutters, the powers of Darkness, SATAN. the advesary of GODS people. GODS peopel are righteous adn obedeient, and IF, they stumble they repent, or GOD scourges them. Well since SCOURGE means to whip with a switch, or a belt, its a weapon for those who stray from the TRUTH of GOD. its Sin, demons, it takes AWAY the peace of GOD. NO joy, NO peace unless you walk in the SPIRIT. THOSE are fruits of the SPIRIT, fruits of the FLESH would be pride, chaos, worry, fear ...etc...many others. Its GODS wepon. Satan. The Advesary who CANT have legal right to attack you unless YOU are dissobedient.
So since We MAY now see what Satan IS, The lets see what Satan is NOT.

Isaiah He is comisioned by the LORD to go to the King of Babylon and rebuke him. This is to BABYLON. and is to the FLESH man. its calling out ADAM in man. Original sin. SELF. claiming that THEY know good and evil and DONT have to go to GOD for it. and in doing so are unrighteous and wicked. it was phsycial in the OT, and Babylon is Spiritual, today.

Isaiah 14 says:
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer(only time its used in the bible, and its used in a mocking tone, GOD is mocking this man who considers hismelf GOD), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my
throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the
sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell(means grave), to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying,
Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; (Satan was never a man)
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that
opened not the house of his prisoners?
Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own
house.
Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave(Satan doesnt have a grave) like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcass(a spirit doesnt have a dead body) trodden under feet.
Isa 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy
land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do
not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
Isa 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will
sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it
come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian(also a word for satan, the opression that the forces of darkness have on the children of israel..BONDAGE/STRONGHOLDS, its what the spirit of God, though utter obedeince leads us to break down, in US, Gods land) in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
Isa 14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the
hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
Isa 14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his
hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

So thats a SMALL look into that passage. its NOT talkign to Satan. Well What about Ezekiel? Lets look at it breifly.
　
Eze 28:10 You shall die the death of the uncircumcised(satan is NOT going to DIE the death of the uncircumcised) by the hand of foreigners; for I have spoken, declares the Lord GOD."
　
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy
covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the
sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and
of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

This is NOT saying that a spirit beign is TRULY covered in jewls and precious stones, its SPiritual language, its saying that THIS person, flesh nature WAS perfect, and beautiful. Blameless. its a spiritual language describing what on the OUTSIDE the person looks like, but on the INSIDE sin is found. Like in revelation 17:4 it describes this fasle church as LOOKING beautiful(having precious jewls, looks nice, looks like a what it should, on the OUTSIDE) But then SIN(cup of abominations) is found in it. as it goes on to say in 14, nd 15. GOD loosk at the INSIDE. not the OUT. Babylon. its ALL about Babylon. Those who say they are GODS chidlren but are led by Flesh adn NOT spirit. they have NO fear of GOD, adn consider that THEY can judge what is Good and EVIL alone, with out GOD. so GOD deceives them

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou
wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the
stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till
iniquity was found in thee.

Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise(whore of babylon) they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain
of God(once WERE on the mount zion, but cast from it, KNOW the truth but glories in SELF instead of CHRIST and GOD): and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub(Was a gardian of Jerusalem, Cherubs are gaurdians of the Way of Life, Tyre wasa gardian of Jerusalem, in Ezekiel 26:2 It gives the reason for WHY God was angry at Hiram King of Tyre, ",Son of man, because that Tyrus has said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned to me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste:") , from the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy
wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before
kings, that they may behold thee.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the
iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire(Anger/satan/powers of darkness) from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou
shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Isaiah, and ezekiel is speaking to the FLESH NATURE of man. the WHORE/Harlot mentality, the one who glorifies SELF. and fornicates with the WORLD. Doesnt keep its self holy and blameless, and obedeint, but fornicates with the WOLRD. Mixes. is not virginal. is not CHASTE. is not Virtuous. It claims to be GOD, it makes WAR on the Peopel of GOD

For THAT reason GOD deludes one to think they are fine, that they are RICH(have the adornment of fine jewls) but instead they are poor naked and blind and need to buy Gold refine in fire(Jesus telling us that, we need to REPENT and be blameless )

God was NOT talking to Satan, but to the flesh nature of those who call themsleves GODS children(the king of tyre had ben circumcised...But was now cursed wit hthe death of the UNCircumcised). ADAM was the FIRST Son of God, so He uses the allusion of being in the garden. Perfect in ALL ways untill iniquity was found in you. SATAN was ALWAYS a murderer. he was ALWAYS aliar. he was made to do so. Why? i don't know. but GOD uses him as a Wepon on those who dont want TRUTH. Satan, gods anger is LIES. JESUS Gods LOVE is TRUTH. You either love ONE or the other. You deny self and obey JESUS 100% OR you dont, and GODS wrath comes on you, becasue your a child of DISSOBEDEINCE

Ephesians 5:6-9
"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things(Rebellion) comes the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. Be not you therefore partakers with them(COME OUT FROM AMONGST THEM SO YOU DONT SUFFER IN THERE PLAUGES Rev 18:4). For you were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; )

The Bible is a picture, over and over of those who DONT ahve fear of the LORD, and instead take it apon themselves to raise themselves up to be A GOD, they dotn HAVE to go to GOD for anything because "they are like God" Knowing Good and evil" Pride raises in them, and they attack and hate the chidlren of GOD



So Satan is GODS anger, GODS weapon agaisnt the dissobedient. Satan was never, ever a "good angel" he is the tempter.GOD created him TO BE Destruction and deception. HE comisions GOD, to trip us up. and WE either love GOD or SELF. If we love GOD, then Satan cant harm you. if you Love SELF, and dont obey Jesus when he said DENY SELF then you prove to be in rebellion to God, and Satan is allowed to have at you. For what ever crime you comitted to do what ever punishment he is allowed. AT the Cross Satan was bound. And WILL NOT have full reign untill ALL the righteous get in the arc. THEN the flood comes.

So satan was never "good" Satan was never an "Angel" he was ALWAYS a creature, and he was ALWAYS a weapon. Judgment. Wrath. HE is the Rod of GODS anger. And GOD sends him as destruction apon the HEART and MIND of one who does not LOVE GOD. LOVE is obedeince. so DISSOBEDIENCE is hate. So if you are Wicked you HATE God. if you are CARNAL you are GODS enemy(Romans 8:7) IN THE FLESH we are not what we should and we are Gods enemy, GOD a Righteous judge, and is angry at the WICKED every day(Psalm 7:11)

I know i dont have all this fully fleshed out yet. But i DO know what i have posted is truth. Pray on it, if it clashes with what you have been taught, TRULY bring it personaly before God. Ask him to show you the truth in it.

IF we obey(only JESUS gives us the ability to do so), and stay PURE and VIRGINAL(blameless, puttign to death the deeds of the flesh ONLY possible in JESUS) then we are HIS bride, staying ready for his comming. If we go and start to fornicate with the world and think that WE know anything in and of our sleves. we are WICKED and GOD is angry. if we TRULY are Sons he uses is anger as a belt, to scourge the sons. if we are NOT True sons, then we will not stay obedient untill the end, and will NOT be saved.(Mark 13:13) instead we will be swept away by the FLOOD of lies which is SATAN nd the powers of Darkness and THEY will cloud our minds and deceive us. and THAT is the anger of the LORD. If sin is found in you, sickness, and plauges and death are formed agaisnt you. Pride, and bitterness, and worry, and fear grow in you, and then you end up being destroyed, ALL because you loved SELF over GOD. Just like Adam and EVE in the garden. They chose desire over obedience. Self over GOD. Desire, becomes sin, becomes death. You WILL surely Die. No life. but DEATH. in dissobedeince. God is ANGRY and HIS anger is destruction. FEAR THE LORD who can throw you into HELL and DONT fear anything, or Anyone Else. He is a Awesome God.

 

[Israel]

Nice post.

Isaiah 25:7-8

7And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

8He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

 

[Cobus]

What a honour it is to know God did not only meant this truth to be taught to a single person. God teaches ALL His people the Truth and the SAME Thruth! Yes and MANY people will not agree with you, but then the WORLD CANNOT recieve the Truth, but those that do, ar made free by the VERY same truth!

So many times did Israel and people of today act on what GOD told them to do, but they had no clue who was telling them, becasue they KNOW not the True God! The immitator has way more people doing his will than that of God! And they all believe they are IN GOD's Will. What I admire is that we do not know eachother from a bar of soap, yet we get the SAME, EXACT same teaching! So we are both being taught by the SAME SPIRIT! Other's would say it is also a lieing spirit becasue they do not see the same, but that is OK, they even called Jesus a worker in Beelzebub.

I thank the Lord that He establish enough time for me to study from Him, and to study to BE IN HIM, and to obey what He wants me to obey! I know the ANGER OF GOD well, as I used to make Him angry a lot, today? Well today, I enjoy our TEACHER - disciple relationship. I do not like it when I am distracted, or if I am prevented from going to the NEXT LESSON! Becasue I am the ONLY one that can prevent me from going, I allow less and less of the OPPOSERS to influence my CLASSES with God.

A few weeks ago I asked some people here in CC to read those two verses from 2 SAm 24, and 1 Chron 21, to try and get them to see how wrong they percieve God, but they NEVER come back... They are set on their ways to selfdestruct! Every person that is not saved to be IN GOD, will one day be DEAD! I want to be with God, now, and fortunately, when HE does let us in, it is FOREVER!

May the Lord keep UNITING us in the Faith, and edify us into His Body. Amen.

Soon, God willing we will share the ENTER INTO GOD phase!

Father, Let thou will be done in us ...AMEN!

 

[Laodicea]

　
I know LOTS and LOTS of men teach that Lucifer was satan(the word lucifer is latin for light bearer) But, its not the case. its TRULY not. Satan was NEVER a "good angel"

Where do you get that from God is not the author of sin.
Revelation 12:7-9
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[AnandaHya]

　

So satan was never "good" Satan was never an "Angel" he was ALWAYS a creature, and he was ALWAYS a weapon. Judgment. Wrath. HE is the Rod of GODS anger. And GOD sends him as destruction apon the HEART and MIND of one who does not LOVE GOD. LOVE is obedeince. so DISSOBEDIENCE is hate. So if you are Wicked you HATE God. if you are CARNAL you are GODS enemy(Romans 8:7) IN THE FLESH we are not what we should and we are Gods enemy, GOD a Righteous judge, and is angry at the WICKED every day(Psalm 7:11)

sorry DF if your proposal is true how do your explain these verses?

1. how can Satan come as an angel of light?

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

2. Why would Jesus come holding Satan if as you say Satan is the ROD of God's Wrath?

Revelation 19:15
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


You stating that Satan is God's wrath doesn't make sense and I have to respectfully disagree with you.
I believe God's wrath is when people break His LAW and Satan used to accuse people before God of their sin but now we have Jesus to defend us and keep God from getting angry. Much like Moses pleaded for the life of His people when God's wrath was kindled by the golden calf.

God's wrath is justice and punishment people deserve when they sin and harm the world and themselves by their actions of disobedience.

Satan is the adversary, the accuser of brethren, a created creature but then angels are created creatures too. He is the dragon of old, a cunning beast of the field, but God did not create EVIL. He looked at the world and said it was GOOD.

He gave people and animals free will and placed in their hearts instructions but then sin perverted it and caused them to go beyond the boundaries He set for them to walk, to envy, be prideful and seek after their wills and fulfillment of their flesh instead of walking with God and what He wants them to do.

We are not protected because we are more righteous then others. No you have it reversed, we are more righteous because God protects and teaches us. thanks be to God.

Look at Job. Satan showed that even Job could be made to sin. He did not sin when his material things were taken away, when his body was afflicted but when he was sent three men claiming to be friends. Those three men caused him to sin by questioning God. That is why when the one young man spoke up in God's defense and God came and show Job his sin, Job had to repent and ask God for forgiveness.

anyways I believe in these verses and to say God controls Satan is to imply that GOD does evil and that is wrong. God does not tell people to sin and God does not tell Satan to sin but he and his minions enjoy setting up house in any stronghold that wars against God.

when God sent a troubling spirit to Saul it was not to lead him into temptation but to convict him of the sin he was already committing.

there is a difference between GODLY Fear and Worldly Fear. Just as there is a difference between spirits SENT by God and SENT by Satan. To blur the line is dangerous. To say Satan is from God is to open wide a gate for possession of the mind for people are also told to submit fully to GOD. Therefore because no one is perfect and sinless, Satan will come and use your words to say "hey I have a legal right to you, you have sin in such and such manner."

It is a LIE. Satan HAS NO LEGAL RIGHTS. JESUS took care of that and only JESUS EVER had a LEGAL right to YOU and YOUR obedience. Resist the devil and he WILL FLEE.

Colossians 2:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.


have to take son to bus stop. ttyl

 

[AnandaHya]

anyways I believe in these verses and to say God controls Satan is to imply that GOD does evil and that is wrong.

James 1:12-14
New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.


there is a difference between GODLY Fear and Worldly Fear. A difference between Godly sorrow and Worldly sorrow:

2 Corinthians 7:9-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. 11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

when Satan causes worldly sorrow, he does it to lead people AWAY from God and His will. When God does it, it leads people to REPENTANCE and back to obedience of GOD.

SATAN is NOT God's wrath. For God does not drive people away from Himself but draws them closer. His wrath brings about Godly Fear and then sorrow and then repentance.

SATAN would NEVER do that for it goes against his plan of making himself "god most high" Satan is selfish and knows the sins the flesh lusts after because he has given in to all of them and wants company in the pits of hell.

 

[AnandaHya]

　

IF we obey(only JESUS gives us the ability to do so), and stay PURE and VIRGINAL(blameless, puttign to death the deeds of the flesh ONLY possible in JESUS) then we are HIS bride, staying ready for his comming. If we go and start to fornicate with the world and think that WE know anything in and of our sleves. we are WICKED and GOD is angry. if we TRULY are Sons he uses is anger as a belt, to scourge the sons. if we are NOT True sons, then we will not stay obedient untill the end, and will NOT be saved.(Mark 13:13) instead we will be swept away by the FLOOD of lies which is SATAN nd the powers of Darkness and THEY will cloud our minds and deceive us. and THAT is the anger of the LORD. If sin is found in you, sickness, and plauges and death are formed agaisnt you. Pride, and bitterness, and worry, and fear grow in you, and then you end up being destroyed, ALL because you loved SELF over GOD. Just like Adam and EVE in the garden. They chose desire over obedience. Self over GOD. Desire, becomes sin, becomes death. You WILL surely Die. No life. but DEATH. in dissobedeince. God is ANGRY and HIS anger is destruction. FEAR THE LORD who can throw you into HELL and DONT fear anything, or Anyone Else. He is a Awesome God.

I agree with the conclusion, or the words stated above but disagree with the words proceeding them...

 

[Cobus]

Ananda, it is not like God CONTROLS Satan but more like CONTAIN Satan. God bears his nonsence for a while. God suffereth his existance for a while. God made him, and God knows ALL his works and deeds and influances. God even allow him to operate in his evil ways, FOR A TIME! Satan can DISGUISE himself as an angel of the light, but HE CANNOT fool God or God's children. It is not possible becasue God is the Truth and God's children KNOWS the Truth!

Remember, the TOTAL PEACE in heaven and in the whole universe will be restored, AFTER satan and all evil is finally put to rest! Then only holiness and God's Kingdom will prevail.... And hope fully we will be part of this EVERLASTING Kingdom!

Satan has more power than most people expect, and he is more succesful in his quest than most people think, but Ananda, he cannot get hold of the wise! God informs (enlightens) His Children to be in HIS CARE, and they cannot befooled becasue of HIS Truth!

Satan came to Jesus and he even tried his luck with Jesus, so that God Himself can know what we go through when we are tempted. Satan came to Jesus and said... ALL THESE KINGDOMS I WILL GIVE THEE!!! Look, Jesus did not disagree... this world is given to SAtan for a while, but only for a time, and ONLY this world.

 

[AnandaHya]

Satan lies. He told Eve she would become like God but God had already made them in HIS Image. Therefore Satan only offered Eve what God had already GIVEN to her. She was deceived and did not recognize God's love and grace in what He had already given and instead believed the lies of Satan which leads to disobedience.

GOD has given JESUS the Kingdoms of this world NOT Satan.

Ephesians 3:8-11
New King James Version (NKJV)

8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship[a] of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,

Revelation 12:9-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

God does NOT given DOMINION to Satan though he seeks to claim it.

the above scene happened at the CROSS.

Colossians 2:15
Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

 

[Cobus]

Ananda look what God said to Jesus AFTER they ate from the tree... Gen 3...And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
This was AFTER they ate of the tree. Before they were made in the image and likeness of God, but now they became AS ONE OF GOD, by knowing good and EVIL! Before they ate they only KNEW GOOD! After the eating they knew EVIL as well! That is why God wants us to "unlearn EVIL" Lay down sin! To be once again only KNOW GOD!

And look what Satan said to Jesus, if he lied Jesus would have told him he was leing... And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. Luk 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Jesus said to Pilate... My Kingdom is NOT of this world.... And i agree with you, it should be, but God gave this for a time to Satan to operate in, and even if God decides to NOT let Satan into a place, God can sanctify that place here on earth so Satan CANNOT enter into it... Like your heart, Ananda, God can clain it "GOD ONLY" turf! And Satan CANNOT touch or go in!

 

[AnandaHya]

mmmm.... things changed Cobus after Jesus came to Earth.

the tree of life is no longer out of reach of humanity. mankind have been given the right through Jesus to become adopted sons and daughters or God and drink of the water of life and eat from the tree of life and live eternally...

Revelations 22

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”[f]
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

we are saved by GRACE which is a gift from God to walk in the GOOD works He created and saved us to do. the major question is are you doing the good works God created you for or do you still walk in disobedience?

Ephesians 2:8-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Satan is not Gods wrath. God's wrath is here because of what Satan did. When we see Gods wrath, Satan will have nothing to do with it. If nothing else, he will run from it!

 

[AnandaHya]

Ananda look what God said to Jesus AFTER they ate from the tree... Gen 3...And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
This was AFTER they ate of the tree. Before they were made in the image and likeness of God, but now they became AS ONE OF GOD, by knowing good and EVIL! Before they ate they only KNEW GOOD! After the eating they knew EVIL as well! That is why God wants us to "unlearn EVIL" Lay down sin! To be once again only KNOW GOD!

And look what Satan said to Jesus, if he lied Jesus would have told him he was leing... And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. Luk 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Jesus said to Pilate... My Kingdom is NOT of this world.... And i agree with you, it should be, but God gave this for a time to Satan to operate in, and even if God decides to NOT let Satan into a place, God can sanctify that place here on earth so Satan CANNOT enter into it... Like your heart, Ananda, God can clain it "GOD ONLY" turf! And Satan CANNOT touch or go in!

we don't "unlearn evil" we become mature and discerning so that by choice we no longer sin and DO evil which is done through the grace of God and the teachings of the HOLY SPIRIT when the person is MATURE in Christ.

Hebrews 5
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Jesus did tell Satan he was lying and you can continue to believe Satan's lies if you wish but I will believe God's words.

The Earth is God's footstool and Satan has been cast out from Heaven and defeated when Jesus was nailed on the Cross. Calvary was when Satan and his angels were cast out of Heaven.

Acts 7
48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
49 ‘ Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the LORD,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?’[

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Don't you understand? All things were created for the LORD but Satan and his angels Rebelled.

they were given guardianship over the nations but they lost it through their rebellion. that is why Jesus came to the Earth to redeem His people and the world.

read again these verses:

Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. the age ended with the establishment of the church, there was a spiritual battle going on that cast the ancients 'gods' and goddess of the world from heaven. you know Kali, Shiva, Juno, Zeus, etc.

Colossians 2:15
Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Revelation 12:7-12
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


Luke 10:17-21
New King James Version (NKJV)

17 Then the seventy[a] returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

why do people say God is Lord of Heaven only and that Satan is lord of this earth?

 

[zone]

　
So since We MAY now see what Satan IS, The lets see what Satan is NOT.

Isaiah He is comisioned by the LORD to go to the King of Babylon and rebuke him. This is to BABYLON. and is to the FLESH man. its calling out ADAM in man. Original sin. SELF. claiming that THEY know good and evil and DONT have to go to GOD for it. and in doing so are unrighteous and wicked. it was phsycial in the OT, and Babylon is Spiritual, today.

Isaiah 14 says:
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer(only time its used in the bible, and its used in a mocking tone, GOD is mocking this man who considers hismelf GOD), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my
throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the
sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell(means grave), to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying,
Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; (Satan was never a man)
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that
opened not the house of his prisoners?
Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own
house.
Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave(Satan doesnt have a grave) like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcass(a spirit doesnt have a dead body) trodden under feet.
Isa 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy
land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do
not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
Isa 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will
sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it
come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian(also a word for satan, the opression that the forces of darkness have on the children of israel..BONDAGE/STRONGHOLDS, its what the spirit of God, though utter obedeince leads us to break down, in US, Gods land) in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
Isa 14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the
hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
Isa 14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his
hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

So thats a SMALL look into that passage. its NOT talkign to Satan. Well What about Ezekiel? Lets look at it breifly.
　
Eze 28:10 You shall die the death of the uncircumcised(satan is NOT going to DIE the death of the uncircumcised) by the hand of foreigners; for I have spoken, declares the Lord GOD."
　
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy
covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the
sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and
of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

This is NOT saying that a spirit beign is TRULY covered in jewls and precious stones, its SPiritual language, its saying that THIS person, flesh nature WAS perfect, and beautiful. Blameless. its a spiritual language describing what on the OUTSIDE the person looks like, but on the INSIDE sin is found. Like in revelation 17:4 it describes this fasle church as LOOKING beautiful(having precious jewls, looks nice, looks like a what it should, on the OUTSIDE) But then SIN(cup of abominations) is found in it. as it goes on to say in 14, nd 15. GOD loosk at the INSIDE. not the OUT. Babylon. its ALL about Babylon. Those who say they are GODS chidlren but are led by Flesh adn NOT spirit. they have NO fear of GOD, adn consider that THEY can judge what is Good and EVIL alone, with out GOD. so GOD deceives them

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou
wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the
stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till
iniquity was found in thee.

Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise(whore of babylon) they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain
of God(once WERE on the mount zion, but cast from it, KNOW the truth but glories in SELF instead of CHRIST and GOD): and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub(Was a gardian of Jerusalem, Cherubs are gaurdians of the Way of Life, Tyre wasa gardian of Jerusalem, in Ezekiel 26:2 It gives the reason for WHY God was angry at Hiram King of Tyre, ",Son of man, because that Tyrus has said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned to me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste:") , from the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy
wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before
kings, that they may behold thee.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the
iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire(Anger/satan/powers of darkness) from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou
shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Isaiah, and ezekiel is speaking to the FLESH NATURE of man. the WHORE/Harlot mentality, the one who glorifies SELF. and fornicates with the WORLD. Doesnt keep its self holy and blameless, and obedeint, but fornicates with the WOLRD. Mixes. is not virginal. is not CHASTE. is not Virtuous. It claims to be GOD, it makes WAR on the Peopel of GOD

For THAT reason GOD deludes one to think they are fine, that they are RICH(have the adornment of fine jewls) but instead they are poor naked and blind and need to buy Gold refine in fire(Jesus telling us that, we need to REPENT and be blameless )

God was NOT talking to Satan, but to the flesh nature of those who call themsleves GODS children(the king of tyre had ben circumcised...But was now cursed wit hthe death of the UNCircumcised). ADAM was the FIRST Son of God, so He uses the allusion of being in the garden. Perfect in ALL ways untill iniquity was found in you. SATAN was ALWAYS a murderer. he was ALWAYS aliar. he was made to do so. Why? i don't know. but GOD uses him as a Wepon on those who dont want TRUTH. Satan, gods anger is LIES. JESUS Gods LOVE is TRUTH. You either love ONE or the other. You deny self and obey JESUS 100% OR you dont, and GODS wrath comes on you, becasue your a child of DISSOBEDEINCE

Ephesians 5:6-9
"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things(Rebellion) comes the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. Be not you therefore partakers with them(COME OUT FROM AMONGST THEM SO YOU DONT SUFFER IN THERE PLAUGES Rev 18:4). For you were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; )

The Bible is a picture, over and over of those who DONT ahve fear of the LORD, and instead take it apon themselves to raise themselves up to be A GOD, they dotn HAVE to go to GOD for anything because "they are like God" Knowing Good and evil" Pride raises in them, and they attack and hate the chidlren of GOD



So Satan is GODS anger, GODS weapon agaisnt the dissobedient. Satan was never, ever a "good angel" he is the tempter.GOD created him TO BE Destruction and deception. HE comisions GOD, to trip us up. and WE either love GOD or SELF. If we love GOD, then Satan cant harm you. if you Love SELF, and dont obey Jesus when he said DENY SELF then you prove to be in rebellion to God, and Satan is allowed to have at you. For what ever crime you comitted to do what ever punishment he is allowed. AT the Cross Satan was bound. And WILL NOT have full reign untill ALL the righteous get in the arc. THEN the flood comes.

So satan was never "good" Satan was never an "Angel" he was ALWAYS a creature, and he was ALWAYS a weapon. Judgment. Wrath. HE is the Rod of GODS anger. And GOD sends him as destruction apon the HEART and MIND of one who does not LOVE GOD. LOVE is obedeince. so DISSOBEDIENCE is hate. So if you are Wicked you HATE God. if you are CARNAL you are GODS enemy(Romans 8:7) IN THE FLESH we are not what we should and we are Gods enemy, GOD a Righteous judge, and is angry at the WICKED every day(Psalm 7:11)

I know i dont have all this fully fleshed out yet. But i DO know what i have posted is truth. Pray on it, if it clashes with what you have been taught, TRULY bring it personaly before God. Ask him to show you the truth in it.

IF we obey(only JESUS gives us the ability to do so), and stay PURE and VIRGINAL(blameless, puttign to death the deeds of the flesh ONLY possible in JESUS) then we are HIS bride, staying ready for his comming. If we go and start to fornicate with the world and think that WE know anything in and of our sleves. we are WICKED and GOD is angry. if we TRULY are Sons he uses is anger as a belt, to scourge the sons. if we are NOT True sons, then we will not stay obedient untill the end, and will NOT be saved.(Mark 13:13) instead we will be swept away by the FLOOD of lies which is SATAN nd the powers of Darkness and THEY will cloud our minds and deceive us. and THAT is the anger of the LORD. If sin is found in you, sickness, and plauges and death are formed agaisnt you. Pride, and bitterness, and worry, and fear grow in you, and then you end up being destroyed, ALL because you loved SELF over GOD. Just like Adam and EVE in the garden. They chose desire over obedience. Self over GOD. Desire, becomes sin, becomes death. You WILL surely Die. No life. but DEATH. in dissobedeince. God is ANGRY and HIS anger is destruction. FEAR THE LORD who can throw you into HELL and DONT fear anything, or Anyone Else. He is a Awesome God.

Isaiah 14 is just plain and simply, in context about Nebuchadnezzar.

you can spiritualize it to be about Jesus sending demons to christians who are not sinless if you want to.
it says or intends nothing of the kind.

Ezekiel is talking about the King of Tyre, Hiram.


and I have set thee so; from whom all kings have their sceptres, crowns, and kingdoms; and by whom they reign; and who can put them down as well as set them up at his pleasure. It may be rendered, "I have given thee" (t); or suffered thee to be so, as the word "give" is often used; it is by divine permission that antichrist has taken such power to himself, and in judgment to them over whom he rules, who are given up to believe a lie; yea, God "put", or, as it is in the original text, "gave" it into the hearts of the kings to agree and give their kingdom to the beast, Revelation 17:17, thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; not on Sinai, nor on Zion; on neither of which was the king of Tyre; nor was this literally true of him; for to say, as Kimchi does to illustrate it, that Hiram king of Tyre assisted Solomon with materials to build the temple, is very foreign; but this is true of the antitype of the king of Tyre, antichrist; who has set his foot on God's holy mountain the church

yes, a type of satan.
but the continuing suggestion that God uses these kings, which He does, whether flesh or principalities against Christians who are not "walking in the Spirit" shows that you still have not corrected your error that there are two kinds of Christians described in Romans 8.

there are people who are not saved, that claim Christ's Name...but those who are saved by Grace through Faith will be saved to the uttermost.

Romans 8 DOES NOT DESCRIBE A CARNAL CHRISTIAN VS A "100% OBEDIENT" CHRISTIAN.
it is comparing the LOST TO THE SAVED.

Arminianism is such a waste of the peace and joy we are promised in the beloved.

 

[zone]

when Satan causes worldly sorrow, he does it to lead people AWAY from God and His will. When God does it, it leads people to REPENTANCE and back to obedience of GOD.

SATAN is NOT God's wrath. For God does not drive people away from Himself but draws them closer. His wrath brings about Godly Fear and then sorrow and then repentance..

agree.
good post.

i wish people would stop making Jesus Christ the thunderings of Mount Sinai against those who He has already called to Himself.

sanctification is a lifelong process, and it WILL be performed in every single person The Lord Our God shall call. He IS BOTH LORD AND SAVIOUR to all who truly are known by Him.

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[Israel]

I thought the bible says that we are given over to Satan to LEARN by the destruction of the flesh?

 

[AnandaHya]

I thought the bible says that we are given over to Satan to LEARN by the destruction of the flesh?

??? Bible verses please?

you give Satan WAY too much power in your mind.

how and when does the Bible say let Satan wreck havoc in your life?

What are you learning from Satan? How to suffer?

mmm These are the Bible verses I see about Satan and learning....

James 4
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Hmmm does it say to submit to Satan? Or does it mention LEARNING from Satan?....mmmm, maybe we should find out who our TRUE teacher should be?

1 Corinthians 2:13
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Satan teaches DEMONIC wisdom and the rottenness is evident in his servants and yield thorns and briars....

James 3
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

Galatians 5 is always good to read too.

 

[Crossfire]

Isaiah 14 is just plain and simply, in context about Nebuchadnezzar.

you can spiritualize it to be about Jesus sending demons to christians who are not sinless if you want to.
it says or intends nothing of the kind.

Ezekiel is talking about the King of Tyre, Hiram.


and I have set thee so; from whom all kings have their sceptres, crowns, and kingdoms; and by whom they reign; and who can put them down as well as set them up at his pleasure. It may be rendered, "I have given thee" (t); or suffered thee to be so, as the word "give" is often used; it is by divine permission that antichrist has taken such power to himself, and in judgment to them over whom he rules, who are given up to believe a lie; yea, God "put", or, as it is in the original text, "gave" it into the hearts of the kings to agree and give their kingdom to the beast, Revelation 17:17, thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; not on Sinai, nor on Zion; on neither of which was the king of Tyre; nor was this literally true of him; for to say, as Kimchi does to illustrate it, that Hiram king of Tyre assisted Solomon with materials to build the temple, is very foreign; but this is true of the antitype of the king of Tyre, antichrist; who has set his foot on God's holy mountain the church

yes, a type of satan.
but the continuing suggestion that God uses these kings, which He does, whether flesh or principalities against Christians who are not "walking in the Spirit" shows that you still have not corrected your error that there are two kinds of Christians described in Romans 8.

there are people who are not saved, that claim Christ's Name...but those who are saved by Grace through Faith will be saved to the uttermost.

Romans 8 DOES NOT DESCRIBE A CARNAL CHRISTIAN VS A "100% OBEDIENT" CHRISTIAN.
it is comparing the LOST TO THE SAVED.

Arminianism is such a waste of the peace and joy we are promised in the beloved.

Very few Arminians actually believe in carnal Chritianity. If my memory is correct, the concept of a carnal christian was originally contrived by Keswickians in the 1800s, a reformed branch of the Holiness movement. It was later adopted by several different Holiness organizations but not all, the most popular being the Christian Missionary Alliance. According to them, carnal Christianity is not something to be desired.

However the modern concept of carnal Christianity had been made popular by once saved always saved baptists derived out of the Dallas Theological Seminary which embrace a fusion of certain Calvinistic and Arminian beliefs.

It helps to get your facts straight.

 

[zone]

Very few Arminians actually believe in carnal Chritianity. If my memory is correct, the concept of a carnal christian was originally contrived by Keswickians in the 1800s, a reformed branch of the Holiness movement. It was later adopted by several different Holiness organizations but not all, the most popular being the Christian Missionary Alliance. According to them, carnal Christianity is not something to be desired.

However the modern concept of carnal Christianity had been made popular by once saved always saved baptists derived out of the Dallas Theological Seminary which embrace a fusion of certain Calvinistic and Arminian beliefs.

It helps to get your facts straight.

thank you dear.

i'm aware of the origins.

my post was noting the fearful arminian leanings of some pentecostal evangelicals who have misunderstood Romans 8.
i was clear.

 

[Deadflesh]

sorry DF if your proposal is true how do your explain these verses?

1. how can Satan come as an angel of light?

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

AS a messenger of light. he does NOT come as an angelic being, he coems as a messaneger bringing the GOSEPL but its a FASLE GOSPEL. Thats the CONTEXT of the chapter, false apoastles, FALSE messengers. Angel of light, Messenger of light, but REALLY its satan, demons, docrine of demons...etc. it is not saying Satan coems as an angel. nope. its not. a MESSENGER. bareign gospel, but its a FASLE GOSPEL.

2. Why would Jesus come holding Satan if as you say Satan is the ROD of God's Wrath?

Revelation 19:15
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Yup, considering this is all spiritual. You ARE agreeing with me you just dont know it yet. I never said Satan is Good, he isnt, and SIN is ONLY found in satan. NOT God. God IS NOT the author of SIN Satan is. But SATAN is used. I dotn ahve the whoel thign worked out, i have SOME light on the whole thing. But SATAN is the anger of the Lord. I stick by that.

You stating that Satan is God's wrath doesn't make sense and I have to respectfully disagree with you.
I believe God's wrath is when people break His LAW and Satan used to accuse people before God of their sin but now we have Jesus to defend us and keep God from getting angry. Much like Moses pleaded for the life of His people when God's wrath was kindled by the golden calf.

Uh huh, Gods wrath was kindled agaisnt the rebellious. And the rebellious are under WHAT KIND OF INFLUENCE? GODLY? OR WOULD YOU SAY SATANIC?

God's wrath is justice and punishment people deserve when they sin and harm the world and themselves by their actions of disobedience.

Satan is the adversary, the accuser of brethren, a created creature but then angels are created creatures too. He is the dragon of old, a cunning beast of the field, but God did not create EVIL. He looked at the world and said it was GOOD.

God DID look at the world and say it was GOOD, in fact ADAM was holy and blameless, PERFECT in all his ways untill iniquity was found in him. SATAN was created to test, and try our hearts. It is a lie of the devil To think that Satan is OUT fro mthe control of GOD. GOD cant sin, nor can he tempt on to SIn, but SATAN can. the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD LED Jesus into temptation. David prayed "DO NOT LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION" DAvid couldnt handle temptation, JESUS DID handle temptation. STIL GOD led them there. To try them, to test them. JESUS never sinned, David DID, the hedge came down on him, becasue he wasnt perfect(Jesus was) and GOd cursed DAVID and his chidlren becasue of SIN. the CURSE was the enemies. The Powers of darkness, SATAN. They came i nand ruined him, destroyed , and tried to continue to destroy him. But DAVID feard the LORD adn begged him to relinquish. He KNEW it was GOD in charge of all things.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?" Lamentations 3:38

"And he said, Hear you therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said to him, With which? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, You shall persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets, and the LORD has spoken evil concerning you." 1 Kings 22:19-23

He gave people and animals free will and placed in their hearts instructions but then sin perverted it and caused them to go beyond the boundaries He set for them to walk, to envy, be prideful and seek after their wills and fulfillment of their flesh instead of walking with God and what He wants them to do.

Animals dotn have free will. They have a predisposed instinct. and becasue they do not have the knowledge of GOOD and eil liek we do, they do not need a savior, like we do, they just do what they want to. HUMANS want to try to make themselves LIKE anmals, and GOD allows it(nebuchadnezzar is an example of AMN turning into beast..there is more to that story, and more symbolism to that, but i digress)

We are not protected because we are more righteous then others. No you have it reversed, we are more righteous because God protects and teaches us. thanks be to God.

You think im saying God protects us becasue we are more righteouss then others. thats NOT what im saying thats what YOU percieve. IM saying that we are NOT protected if we are in rebellion. NO hedge of protection if we are practicing sin. im NOT talkig nabout a stumble, im talkign about LIVING with idols i nthe heart, or LIVNG in a rebellion, or having somthig nGOD wants you to give up, but YOU will not relenquish. So God protects and teaches ONLY those who he hadn picks? thats a respecotor of persons. We are proteced IF we obey, THAT is how we abide in JESUS. JEsus said IF, IF, IF you abide in me. IN HIM we are protected. OUT of him, we arent, GOD knows our heart, so he forknows if we have, or will have an idols in our heart, and if he sees we do, then that measn we DONT love truth, and then HE DECEIVES US. it is GOD that deceives us, WITH The deceiver, HIS anger, SATAN. He USES SATAN. SATAN is not out from GODS power.

Look at Job. Satan showed that even Job could be made to sin.

NOPE. JOB DID NOT KNOW JESUS(GOD) that was the WHOLE point. Job was righteous becasue of what he KNEW with the carnal mind. JOB was righteous because he was TAUGHT to be so, it was RELIGIOUSNESS. but GOD teted his heart to see if his heart was TRUE to GOD, HOW did GOD test JOBS heart? SATAN!!. PLAUGES! GOD tested Job, he led him into temptation. and Used SATAN to get that done. Job sinned, GOD was seeing if JOB would cursed GOD, reject GOD Deny GOD. It doesnt say Job didnt sin. heDID sin, becasue he didnt KNOW GOD, he only THOUGH he knew GOd. he knew ABOUT GOD, ALL ABOUT GOD(head knowledge, carnal knowledge) but he didnt KNOW God.

Chapter 32:1-2

1So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

2Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

"Oh that I knew where I might find him! that I might come even to his seat!" Job 23:3

Job didnt know GOd, he had no idea how to coem before him, nor that he COULD come before him. He was Self righteous but new NOT the fear of the LORD, he obeyed only because of Tradition, he did it WELL but still ahd no relationship with him, he still did not KNOW GOD.

Job 42
My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
6Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”

God sent SATAN, his anger on JOBS selfrighteousness, and then that cause JOB to repent. See.

He did not sin when his material things were taken away, when his body was afflicted but when he was sent three men claiming to be friends. Those three men caused him to sin by questioning God. That is why when the one young man spoke up in God's defense and God came and show Job his sin, Job had to repent and ask God for forgiveness.

anyways I believe in these verses and to say God controls Satan is to imply that GOD does evil and that is wrong. God does not tell people to sin and God does not tell Satan to sin but he and his minions enjoy setting up house in any stronghold that wars against God.

Again, GOD doesnt do evil, he CASUES it, through his anger, which is satan. WHY is that the case. i have no idea, but i firmly stand at that is what the lord is showing me.

when God sent a troubling spirit to Saul it was not to lead him into temptation but to convict him of the sin he was already committing.

"But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him." 1 samuel 16:14

Firstly it says an EVIL spirit was from the lord. Ok, so GOD is in charge of EVIL spirits. Good to know.


there is a difference between GODLY Fear and Worldly Fear. Just as there is a difference between spirits SENT by God and SENT by Satan. To blur the line is dangerous. To say Satan is from God is to open wide a gate for possession of the mind for people are also told to submit fully to GOD. Therefore because no one is perfect and sinless, Satan will come and use your words to say "hey I have a legal right to you, you have sin in such and such manner."

Hmm, Possesion ONLY comes, if you have an idol. if you love GOD with ALL your heart, ALL your mind, and ALL your soul, WILL God allwo you to be attacked/posesed? no. it when your in rebllion that GOD allows it to happen. Right NO ONE is sinless in the flesh. Which is why we must walk in the SPIRIT. then we have the peace of JESUS, and the JOY, and then we are NOT attacked. IF we have desire(lust of flesh, lust of eyes, boatsul pride) then that gives birth to sin. IDOLS. IN the spirit we DONT sin. Can we walk perfectly i nthe spirit 24/7 again i dunno. but THAT is up to the individual and GOD. Not me. but when we aRE NOT SINNING that measn we are in the spirit. IF we are giving into the temptations that means we are NOT in the spirit but flesh.

ALL spirits, as i have shown, are sent by GOD. they are ALL, done with GODS SAY SO. That is why Jesus said FEAR THE LORD. SATAN is evil. GOD is not evil, but GOD created Satan for his purposes. his ways


It is a LIE. Satan HAS NO LEGAL RIGHTS. JESUS took care of that and only JESUS EVER had a LEGAL right to YOU and YOUR obedience. Resist the devil and he WILL FLEE.

Satan SURE DOES have leagal right to a person in rebellion

"For the wrath of God(Gods wrath and ANGER) is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" Romans 1:18

Colossians 2:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

AMEN!!! HALLELUJAH!! that is SOO TRUE PAUL! AMEN BROTHER PAUL, and Thank you Ananda. Amen. I agree with that. And becasue of ALL that, We can then do what Paul talks about in the very next chapter

Colossians 3: 5-6
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God(Gods rod of Anger) is coming.

If you ARENT living and walkign i nthe spirit and putting FLESH to death, then the Judgemnt of GOD is onyou, REVELATION is allready taken place IN THE SPIRIT agaisnt the lukewarm and those with an unrepentant heart, and no Fear of GOD.

have to take son to bus stop. ttyl

Thats wonderfull, i hope and pray his first day at school was a good one