Can you be Christian at birth or do you have to be born again?

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Can you be Christian from Birth?

  • yes

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • no

    Votes: 28 80.0%
  • i don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • does it really matter?

    Votes: 2 5.7%

  • Total voters
    35
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#1
I noticed a lot of people have their status as being Christian because they were born that way. their parents are Christian so they think they are too.

Is that Biblical?

I never believed in infant baptism because Jesus was 30 before He was baptized and there is no one in the Bible who was baptized as a baby

there are some prophets in the Bible who were dedicated to God from their birth like Samson and John the Baptist and a few others but Jesus said you had to be born again. Can you be born again as a baby?

Can you truly have faith in your heart and confess with your mouth that JESUS is LORD and Savior, that He died on the cross and rose again for the remission of sins?

My kids are 3 and 6 and I'm not sure they understand what remission or sin even means.

I'm just wondering if people are fooling themselves when they say they are Christian from birth or maybe there is another reason they say this that is Biblical and I'm missing it.

Anyway what are you thoughts?

can you be Christian from birth?
 
Last edited:

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
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#2
My thoughts or experience is when I was 32, the Lord by his word and preaching,showed i needed to repent and be baptised,then I began relationship with him,but i also believe people can turn to him
right before death,or that he gives them time to get their house in order, his ways are higher than our ways, as a child you probably wouldn,t know what repentance means
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
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#3
Infant baptism is one of the most ancient Christian beliefs and practices. Hinted at in the Scriptures themselves, and talked about in the earliest Christian writings. We see for example Justin Martyr, one of the first Christian apologists from around 110-140ad telling of people who were in their 60s and 70s who'd been baptized as children. We have records from numerous other Christian saints and leaders attesting to the commonality of this practice and telling of how they too had often been baptized as children as well.

If we understand that in the past, young Jewish boys were joined to the covenant at 8 days of age through circumcision, how then could we deny our infants the joining to the new and even more encompassing covenant through baptism which is the circumcision of Christ?



And some references from Scripture to think about:

Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

Job 14:1-4 - man that is born of woman is full of trouble and unclean. Baptism is required for all human beings because of our sinful human nature.

Psalm 51:5 - we are conceived in the iniquity of sin. This shows the necessity of baptism from conception.

Matt. 18:2-5 - Jesus says unless we become like children, we cannot enter into heaven. So why would children be excluded from baptism?

Matt 19:14 - Jesus clearly says the kingdom of heaven also belongs to children. There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being eligible for baptism.

Mark 10:14 - Jesus says to let the children come to Him for the kingdom of God also belongs to them. Jesus says nothing about being too young to come into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism."

Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.

Acts 2:38 - Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized.." Protestants use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized. But the Greek translation literally says, "If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized” (“Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.”) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves that babies are baptized based on their parents’ faith. This is confirmed in the next verse.

Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word "children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes infants.

Luke 1:59 - this proves that "teknon" includes infants. Here, John as a "teknon" (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.

Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.

Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word "household" comes from the Greek word "oikos" which is a household that includes infants and children.

Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia's faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents' faith, not the children's faith.

Acts 16:30-33 - it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church's practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a "believer's baptism" requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years).

Acts 16:33 - Paul baptized the jailer (an adult) and his entire household (which had to include children). Baptism is never limited to adults and those of the age of reason. See also Luke 19:9; John 4:53; Acts 11:14; 1 Cor. 1:16; and 1 Tim. 3:12; Gen. 31:41; 36:6; 41:51; Joshua 24:15; 2 Sam. 7:11, 1 Chron. 10:6 which shows “oikos” generally includes children.

Rom. 5:12 - sin came through Adam and death through sin. Babies' souls are affected by Adam's sin and need baptism just like adult souls.

Rom. 5:15 - the grace of Jesus Christ surpasses that of the Old Covenant. So children can also enter the new Covenant in baptism. From a Jewish perspective, it would have been unthinkable to exclude infants and children from God's Covenant kingdom.

1 Cor. 1:16 - Paul baptized the household ("oikos") of Stephanus. Baptism is not limited to adults.

Eph. 1:1; Col. 1:2 - Paul addresses the "saints" of the Church, and these include the children he addresses in Eph. 6:1 and Col. 3:20. Children become saints of the Church only through baptism.

Eph. 2:3 - we are all by nature children of wrath, in sin, like all mankind. Infants are no exception. See also Psalm 51:5 and Job 14:1-4 which teach us we are conceived in sin and born unclean.

2 Thess. 3:10 - if anyone does not work let him not eat. But this implies that those who are unable to work should still be able to eat. Babies should not starve because they are unable to work, and should also not be denied baptism because they are unable to make a declaration of faith.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:3-5 - the faith of those who brought in the paralytic cured the paralytic's sins. This is an example of the forgiveness of sins based on another's faith, just like infant baptism. The infant child is forgiven of sin based on the parents' faith.

Matt. 8:5-13 - the servant is healed based upon the centurion's faith. This is another example of healing based on another's faith. If Jesus can heal us based on someone else’s faith, then He can baptize us based on someone else’s faith as well.

Mark 9:22-25 - Jesus exercises the child's unclean spirit based on the father's faith. This healing is again based on another's faith.

1 Cor. 7:14 – Paul says that children are sanctified by God through the belief of only one of their parents.

Exodus 12:24-28 - the Passover was based on the parent's faith. If they did not kill and eat the lamb, their first-born child died.

Joshua 5:2-7 - God punished Israel because the people had not circumcised their children. This was based on the parent's faith. The parents play a critical role in their child's salvation.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#4
Infant baptism was a practice brought in during the time of the Black Death, had more to do with that than anything else. You must make you own choice and own your own faith. You can't get to heaven on the faith of someone else.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#5
Infant baptism was a practice brought in during the time of the Black Death, had more to do with that than anything else. You must make you own choice and own your own faith. You can't get to heaven on the faith of someone else.
Incorrect, we have records dating to around 110-140AD that tells us of men and women in their 60s and 70s who were baptized as infants. Meaning that the practice is directly from the time of the apostles.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
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#6
I would have to agree with Ds here, infant Baptism goes right back. Im not sure about RC, but in protestanism infant baptism is not a sign of being saved but being born into the covenant community ,thats if your parents are belivers.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
13
0
#7
The answer is no you can't but that doesn't mean if you die on a early age God will condemn you to hell because you did not have the chance to accept Jesus as Lord no not at all but once a child starts discerning for themselves then yes they have a choice.

But lets take the example of Jeremiah, God has appointed him as prophet before he was even born sooo i think ultimately God appoints and selects His own out of the whole bunch.

The tear grows along side with the wheat and at the end He throws the tears into the fire and takes the wheat unto Himself so this is where predestination comes in.

When Jesus said one must be baptized with water and Spirit and meant born from the womb and God's Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of God because without the Spirit you will not understand the things of the Spirit at all and God is Spirit which became flesh (Jesus Christ)

We must be born of Spirit in order to see the glory of God here on earth because those who does not have the God's Spirit does not see the glory of God nor do they see Jesus and the cross as we do, that what happened at Calvary is foolish in the eyes of the world but unto us it's the Power of God unto salvation.

Peace.
 
N

Naphal

Guest
#8
Incorrect, we have records dating to around 110-140AD that tells us of men and women in their 60s and 70s who were baptized as infants. Meaning that the practice is directly from the time of the apostles.
The Apostles would not have supported the concept. It wouldn't matter if infant baptism pre-dated Christ...how old error is does not affect it's error.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#9
The Apostles would not have supported the concept. It wouldn't matter if infant baptism pre-dated Christ...how old error is does not affect it's error.
Why should I trust your interpretation over the testimony of the earliest Christians? The early Christians themselves testify that it was the Apostles who taught the practice of infant baptism. And indeed, there's considerable Scriptural support for the practice which I posted above.
So again, what makes your interpretation more valid than the early Christians? Keep in mind some are recorded to have been taught directly by an apostle, or they were the students of someone taught by an apostle.
 
N

Naphal

Guest
#10
Why should I trust your interpretation over the testimony of the earliest Christians?
Trust nothing, be Berean at all times.

The early Christians themselves testify that it was the Apostles who taught the practice of infant baptism.
I do not believe that is true.


I have read your posts, I do not believe you have proven infants should be baptised nor could they possibly understand what baptism actually is and means. I'm not sure you know what Baptism actually is.
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#11
What about John the baptist? Was he not FILLED with the Holy Spirit from day one? Well then I guess if God wants to make a baby full of His Spirit from day one, then no person on CC or the rest of the world will have any say on the matter! May God be God, and may His will be done in me, Amen!

CJCRONJE, sorry I have not enough faith to heal your leg, may God forgive me! I knoe if Jesus prayed for your leg you would not need an operation, Sorry my friend, I am weak!

CJ, ek speel nie meer Kerk nie, God het my 1 Korintiers 15 gewys, ek is besig om God vir genade te smeek, sodat ek ook werke kan doen om SY geruie te wees. MAg die Here jou genees vor jou operasie, maar ek dink nie Hy sal dit soen omdat ek Hom vra nie, miskien iemand anders.
 
N

Naphal

Guest
#12
What about John the baptist? Was he not FILLED with the Holy Spirit from day one?
Was he? Can you prove he was? I can prove his mother was when she was pregnant with him. Not that this affects the topic, but it's an interesting side topic.
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#13
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
 
N

Naphal

Guest
#14
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Well done.

As for baptism for infants...I disagree until I see a scripture supporting it.
 
S

Slepsog4

Guest
#15
all the conversion accounts in the Acts of the APOSTLES were of men and women. There is zero evidence of infant baptism in the Bible.

A Christian is a disciple. A disciple is someone mature enough to hear with understanding and make a personal commitment based on faith and repentance.
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#16
Naphal i saw MANY children belonging to the Kingdom of God, and they were not baptized, and I saw MANY if not all, baptized grown ups NOT showing Kingdom works..... now what? It only proofs that the water baptism is not the key! So why argue over a key that cannot unlock the Kingdom? The only baptism I believe in is the one in Eph 4. Looks like that baptism is the KEY! Nothing wrong with water baptism, but the EVERYTHING right with GOD'S baptism.... When God baptize you with HIMSELF... that is to whomever HE WANTS too. Child or 80 year-old people! MAy God baptize us my friend, Amen!
 
N

Naphal

Guest
#17
You provided a great verse before. Can you not do it again?

Naphal i saw MANY children belonging to the Kingdom of God, and they were not baptized, and I saw MANY if not all, baptized grown ups NOT showing Kingdom works..... now what? It only proofs that the water baptism is not the key! So why argue over a key that cannot unlock the Kingdom? The only baptism I believe in is the one in Eph 4. Looks like that baptism is the KEY! Nothing wrong with water baptism, but the EVERYTHING right with GOD'S baptism.... When God baptize you with HIMSELF... that is to whomever HE WANTS too. Child or 80 year-old people! MAy God baptize us my friend, Amen!
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#18
Well this Holy Spirit man of God, john the Baptist stand in the water and said..... Mark 1:8... Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Children and the TOUCH OF THE LORD....
And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
 
N

Naphal

Guest
#19
Did Jesus baptise those children or did anyone else baptise them?


Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Mar 10:15Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#20
I believe EVERY child of God is "touched" by Jesus! And after the touch they are in the Kingdom.... Do you reckon there was a differance betwen the children He touched and the once he did not? What will the differance be if any?