THE LORD'S PRAYER

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Avinu

Avinu

Banned
#1
May 18, 2011
1,815
10
0
#1
אָבִינוּ שֶׁבַּשָּׁמַיִם, יִתְקַדֵּשׁ שִׁמְךָ, וְיִתְבָּרֵךְ מַלְכוּתְךָ, רְצוֹנְךָ יִהְיֶה עָשׂוּי בַּשָּׁמַיִם וּבָאָרֶץ, וְתִתֵּן לַחְמֵנוּ תְּמִידִית, וּמְחוֹל לָנוּ חַטֹּאתֵינוּ כַּאֲשֶׁר אֲנַחְנוּ מוֹחֲלִים לַחוֹטִאים לָנוּ, וְאַל תְּבִיאֵנוּ לִידֵי נִסָּיוֹן, וְשָׁמְרֵנוּ מִכָּל רָע, אָמֵן







a-vee-noo she-ba-sha-mai-yeem, yeet-ka-desh sheem-cha, ve-yeet-ba-rech mal-choot-cha, re-tson-cha yee-h'-ye a-sui ba-sha-mai-yeem oo-va-a-rets, ve-tee-ten lach-me-noo te-mee-deet, oo-me-chol la-noo cha-to-tay-noo ka-a-sher a-nach-noo mo-cha-leem la-chot-teem la-noo, ve-al te-vee-ay-noo lee-day nees-sa-yon, ve-shom-ray-noo mee-kol rah, a-men




Our Father in heaven, May your name be sanctified, May your kingdom be blessed, Your will shall be done in heaven and on earth, Give us our bread continually/daily, Forgive us the debt of our sins as we forgive the debt of those who sin against us, Do not bring us into the hands of a test, and protect us from all evil, Amen.



I put this together for those who have spoken to me and have shown an interest in learning Biblical hebrew. As you may know, hebrew reads from right to left. But the transliteration reads from left to right. Plus I have all the vowel dots in place on the hebrew. Original hebrew didn't have vowel dots. That was started if I remember correctly around the 10th or 11th century. Hope you all enjoy. shalom
 
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A

Abiding

Guest
#2
#2
Cool!! thanks Avina :)
 
Avinu

Avinu

Banned
#3
May 18, 2011
1,815
10
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#3
You're welcome my friend, and it's Avinu, not avina. lol
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#4
#4
I can't sy it's greek to me, as I know a few words in greek, but I sure wouldn't be able to decrypt that without the translation :p

I love the sound of hebrew :D
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#5
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
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#5
Avinu, just a question. Where is your source for the rendering "the debt of our sins" and "the debt of those who sin against us"? I would not gainsay that the word debt here in nature refers to sin. However I wonder if there's any support for translating the verse (either from greek, hebrew, aramaic, syriac etc documents) that way.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#6
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#6
Avinu:



Forgive us the debt of our sins as we forgive the debt of those who sin against us,

I am amazed at this translation, for from studying the lives of the kings of Israel, I thought that although we have forgiveness for our sins, we still have to pay the earthly dept. If you steal, you spend time in jail even though God wipes it clean when we repent. Or is this in the spiritual sense. The dept for sin is death, and God forgives us so we don't have to pay that dept. I thought that what God was asking of us in regard to others is for us not to take on what is between them and God, to give them only the love that God has for them.
 
L

loveme1

Senior Member
#7
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#7
Thank you for sharing, I will learn this, it is more grateful and appreciative version of the prayer.

Did you translate it yourself? Are you fluent in Hebrew? or maybe native...
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#8
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
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#8
Avinu said:
אָבִינוּ שֶׁבַּשָּׁמַיִם, יִתְקַדֵּשׁ שִׁמְךָ, וְיִתְבָּרֵךְ מַלְכוּתְךָ, רְצוֹנְךָ יִהְיֶה עָשׂוּי בַּשָּׁמַיִם וּבָאָרֶץ, וְתִתֵּן לַחְמֵנוּ תְּמִידִית, וּמְחוֹל לָנוּ חַטֹּאתֵינוּ כַּאֲשֶׁר אֲנַחְנוּ מוֹחֲלִים לַחוֹטִאים לָנוּ, וְאַל תְּבִיאֵנוּ לִידֵי נִסָּיוֹן, וְשָׁמְרֵנוּ מִכָּל רָע, אָמֵן







a-vee-noo she-ba-sha-mai-yeem, yeet-ka-desh sheem-cha, ve-yeet-ba-rech mal-choot-cha, re-tson-cha yee-h'-ye a-sui ba-sha-mai-yeem oo-va-a-rets, ve-tee-ten lach-me-noo te-mee-deet, oo-me-chol la-noo cha-to-tay-noo ka-a-sher a-nach-noo mo-cha-leem la-chot-teem la-noo, ve-al te-vee-ay-noo lee-day nees-sa-yon, ve-shom-ray-noo mee-kol rah, a-men




Our Father in heaven, May your name be sanctified, May your kingdom be blessed, Your will shall be done in heaven and on earth, Give us our bread continually/daily, Forgive us the debt of our sins as we forgive the debt of those who sin against us, Do not bring us into the hands of a test, and protect us from all evil, Amen.



I put this together for those who have spoken to me and have shown an interest in learning Biblical hebrew. As you may know, hebrew reads from right to left. But the transliteration reads from left to right. Plus I have all the vowel dots in place on the hebrew. Original hebrew didn't have vowel dots. That was started if I remember correctly around the 10th or 11th century. Hope you all enjoy. shalom
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תודה רנה

זה גדול עדול תיוחנן
 
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Avinu

Avinu

Banned
#9
May 18, 2011
1,815
10
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#9
Forgive us the debt of our sins as we forgive the debt of those who sin against us,

I am amazed at this translation, for from studying the lives of the kings of Israel, I thought that although we have forgiveness for our sins, we still have to pay the earthly dept. If you steal, you spend time in jail even though God wipes it clean when we repent. Or is this in the spiritual sense. The dept for sin is death, and God forgives us so we don't have to pay that dept. I thought that what God was asking of us in regard to others is for us not to take on what is between them and God, to give them only the love that God has for them.
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This is where understanding Torah really helps with this kind of stuff. (this is not a sarcastic remark) In Torah, there is a land Sabbath called the Shmitta yr. Every 7 yrs. the land was to be left alone from planting and harvesting letting the land rest. But also all depths were to be forgiven and released. Now for those who may not know, in the prayer, depths is not just something owed, but also for wrongs done to us. Same thing as scripture saying " you will be forgiven as you forgive others." (paraphrasing)
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#10
#10
yeah the whole Year of Jubilee thing would be nice. :)

Leviticus 25
8 ‘And you shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years; and the time of the seven sabbaths of years shall be to you forty-nine years. 9 Then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement you shall make the trumpet to sound throughout all your land. 10 And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a Jubilee for you; and each of you shall return to his possession, and each of you shall return to his family. 11 That fiftieth year shall be a Jubilee to you; in it you shall neither sow nor reap what grows of its own accord, nor gather the grapes of your untended vine. 12 For it is the Jubilee; it shall be holy to you; you shall eat its produce from the field.

13 ‘In this Year of Jubilee, each of you shall return to his possession. 14 And if you sell anything to your neighbor or buy from your neighbor’s hand, you shall not oppress one another. 15 According to the number of years after the Jubilee you shall buy from your neighbor, and according to the number of years of crops he shall sell to you. 16 According to the multitude of years you shall increase its price, and according to the fewer number of years you shall diminish its price; for he sells to you according to the number of the years of the crops. 17 Therefore you shall not oppress one another, but you shall fear your God; for I am the Lord your God.


so Avinu can you get your lovely wife to read or sing the Lord's prayer in Hebrew so we can hear what it sounds like?
 
Avinu

Avinu

Banned
#11
May 18, 2011
1,815
10
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#11
so Avinu can you get your lovely wife to read or sing the Lord's prayer in Hebrew so we can hear what it sounds like?
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Yes she can, but it's hard to get her to, she has such stage fright, even on recordings. But I'm persistant. lol
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#12
#12
Interesting. Hebrew has a nice guttural sound to it that like, but the right to left thing kinda annoys me. But that said I prefer me some Pater Noster myself (I'm Catholic whatcha expect?:D)

Pater noster qui es in coelis,
sanctificetur nomen tuum;
adveniat regnum tuum,
fiat voluntas tua,
sicut in coelo et in terra.
Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie,
et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris.
et ne nos inducas in tentationem
sed libera nos a malo.

Not quite as foreign looking as Hebrew, but much easier to set to music.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#13
#13
^that is one of the most frustrating langauges ever. Most of it is impossible to understand, and then randomly a word or two who make total sense appear.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#14
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
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#14
wwjd_kilden said:
^that is one of the most frustrating langauges ever. Most of it is impossible to understand, and then randomly a word or two who make total sense appear.
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Hebrew or Latin? I like them both, but Hebrew is not so terribly different once the alphabet has been learned. In many ways it is far simpler than English. I admit that first view of the letters can be intimidating, but they are simply letters, nothing more, nothing less.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#15
#15
latin

I havent tried hebew yet, I got enough trying to decrypt greek :)
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#16
#16
wwjd_kilden said:
^that is one of the most frustrating langauges ever. Most of it is impossible to understand, and then randomly a word or two who make total sense appear.
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It's not that bad once the grammar and declensions have been learned, and if you study Greek the grammar in Latin works much the same way. Really once you get either Greek or Latin down it drastically reduces the time it takes to pick up the other. Of course it's much easier if you natively speak a language that has a heavy Latin influence (French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, English)
 
Avinu

Avinu

Banned
#17
May 18, 2011
1,815
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#17
Arabic, latin and spanish are next on my lists to get down and speak, hopefully fluent. I love these ancient languages to read and understand from.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#18
#18
Avinu said:
Arabic, latin and spanish are next on my lists to get down and speak, hopefully fluent. I love these ancient languages to read and understand from.
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I wouldn't bother trying to speak Latin fluently unless you plan on living in the Vatican it has no practical use, but once you can read it it opens whole new worlds of Horace, Livy, Plutarch, Virgil, Caesar, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, and many others. But the thing you'll be proud of the most is that you can go to Rome with friends and show off by deciphering all the inscriptions on the temples, churches, and tombstones.

I do have to applaud you though for being able to speak Hebrew, which is something I will probably never get around to accomplishing, mostly because of the alphabet.
 
G

greatblue

Guest
#19
#19
Avinu said:


I put this together for those who have spoken to me and have shown an interest in learning Biblical hebrew. As you may know, hebrew reads from right to left. But the transliteration reads from left to right. Plus I have all the vowel dots in place on the hebrew. Original hebrew didn't have vowel dots. That was started if I remember correctly around the 10th or 11th century. Hope you all enjoy. shalom
Click to expand...
On a separate thread, a while ago, I typed a question to you that really struck a deep chord within me. It was a question of great perplexity, especially considering your own use of Yahweh, an obvious strong hold to Old Testament Law, and a comment made about Hebrew being the pure language of our eternal future. But, after typing it all out, I erased it and decided not to post it. I did this because I didn't want to accuse, attack, or bring about something that didn't really have to be said.

But...

My understanding is that "Avinu" means "Our Father" which of course is the language used by the Lord Jesus Christ in His prayer. You cite this well in your translation. Now...I would never use "Jesus" as my christian chat handle. I would never use "God" as my christian chat handle. I...

So, I can scroll through this exact thread and see others typing a response and addressing YOU as "avinu". So with all that reverential fear of God you're claiming you have, you've actually called yourself "our father" while simultaneously creating scenarios where others will do the same?

Take what you will from this, but I felt the need to address this here as it was mere days early where I exited my browser saying, "I don't need to go here." But you've brought this up, so I'll expect a response. And, as I do not know Hebrew, I admit that I may very well be wrong about "Avinu" in which I apologize.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#20
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
#20
greatblue said:
On a separate thread, a while ago, I typed a question to you that really struck a deep chord within me. It was a question of great perplexity, especially considering your own use of Yahweh, an obvious strong hold to Old Testament Law, and a comment made about Hebrew being the pure language of our eternal future. But, after typing it all out, I erased it and decided not to post it. I did this because I didn't want to accuse, attack, or bring about something that didn't really have to be said.

But...

My understanding is that "Avinu" means "Our Father" which of course is the language used by the Lord Jesus Christ in His prayer. You cite this well in your translation. Now...I would never use "Jesus" as my christian chat handle. I would never use "God" as my christian chat handle. I...

So, I can scroll through this exact thread and see others typing a response and addressing YOU as "avinu". So with all that reverential fear of God you're claiming you have, you've actually called yourself "our father" while simultaneously creating scenarios where others will do the same?

Take what you will from this, but I felt the need to address this here as it was mere days early where I exited my browser saying, "I don't need to go here." But you've brought this up, so I'll expect a response. And, as I do not know Hebrew, I admit that I may very well be wrong about "Avinu" in which I apologize.
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There have been millions of people with the name, Jesus and Joshua, both of which are used as transliterations for the name of Our Savior. I would imagine having any name referring to the relationship of any of the three manifestations of God, Himself, is glory to God. Otherwise this thinking is berating millions of present and past followers of Jesus, or, our Father.
 
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