antichrist
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We should not confuse the man of sin with the Beast. They are two different characters. One is a man and one is a demon. There is even more than one beast. So we should not believe in one antichrist ruling the whole tribulation.
D
doulos
Guest
Yet not one single verse that uses the words antichrist mentions antichrist is a leader. Or that he resembles Christ in a deceptive manner. Or that he seemingly provides for the needs of people.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Remember as Scripture tells us and history proves beasts are kingdoms. Per Scripture antichrists are those who deny Christ or God and there are many not just one. The beast/kingdom will have many antichrists and will worship the dragon which is Satan.
I would think anyone trying to undermine the Lord’s will could be labeled “antichrist.”
L
Laodicea
Guest
Satan is the great antichrist and he has many followers-Many antichrists.
The Man of sin is only used to describe one power, who is destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming so it cannot be Satan
2 Thessalonians 2:3
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:8
(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
1 John 3:4
(4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Daniel 7:25
(25) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 8:12-13
(12) And an host was given against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
(13) Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain which spake, How long the vision the daily, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
The Man of sin is only used to describe one power, who is destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming so it cannot be Satan
2 Thessalonians 2:3
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:8
(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
1 John 3:4
(4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Daniel 7:25
(25) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 8:12-13
(12) And an host was given against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
(13) Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain which spake, How long the vision the daily, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
H
hislastwalk
Guest
D
doulos
Guest
Mar 13:14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
2Th 2:3 -4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day
shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man
of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth
himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so
that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he
is God.
The abomination is an it that is standing. The man of sin is a he that sitteth. An it that is standing is not the same as a he that sitteth.They are not the same, they are 2 different things.
On the other hand antichrist is one that denies Christ or God and there are many that have been in the world since John wrote about them.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
L
Laodicea
Guest
Matthew 24:15-16
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Luke 21:20-21
(20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
We need to put the verses together to find out what Jesus was talking about. He was referring to the Roman armies and the destruction of Jerusalem.
Abomination is referring to idols
1 Kings 11:5-7
(5) For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
(6) And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
(7) Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
So to put this together the Roman armies put their idols in the temple, this was a sign for Christ's followers. Not one follower of Christ lost their life in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD
Remember that God's ppl the Jews are still looking for the messiah, the devil'sl intention is to use this to deceive the whole world in the form of a man. If you read revelations about one of the horns i think it is, being wounded fatally but regaining life, you will see that Satan intends to use a man to cause many to think He is the real messiah. He is going to imitate the resurrection with evidence. whereas we Christians had to believe in Christ resurrection by faith, ppl are going to believe what they see.
That's why Christ said to Thomas, blessed are they who believe and have not seen.
That's why Christ said to Thomas, blessed are they who believe and have not seen.
D
doulos
Guest
Mat 24:15 - 21When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of byMatthew 24:15-16
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Luke 21:20-21
(20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
We need to put the verses together to find out what Jesus was talking about. He was referring to the Roman armies and the destruction of Jerusalem.
Abomination is referring to idols
1 Kings 11:5-7
(5) For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
(6) And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
(7) Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
So to put this together the Roman armies put their idols in the temple, this was a sign for Christ's followers. Not one follower of Christ lost their life in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD
Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.Daniel 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
(Tanach) - Daniel 12:11 And from the time the daily sacrifice was removed and the silent abomination placed, is one thousand, two hundred, and ninety.
Mark confirms it to be "standing" and tells us that the abomination is an "it":
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Luke tells us that it is Jerusalem that is desolated, in his parallel verse:
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains...
All three apostles also confirm something about the timing, because we find it is written about a future event as in "... ye shall see...", so we can conclude that it was to be an abomination, associated with the desolation of Jerusalem, in the future to the time at which Jesus delivered this discourse, even though it was "spoken of by Daniel the prophet" well over 500 years prior to when Jesus delivered this Olivet Discourse.
Jerusalem was compassed with armies on many occasions after the discourse was delivered including 70 AD, 132, 639, 1099, 1187, 1948, 1967 and indeed even as of this writing. In 70 AD, a million Jews were killed, and an already long desolate temple was torn down. Jesus had declared almost 40 years earlier: Matt 23:38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.", in part because the Pharisees had made "...the word of God of none effect through your tradition..." (Mark 7:13), a condition in which we seem to find much of today's church. If the temple had not already been rendered desolate as Jesus' declaration above would seem to suggest, then it was certainly rendered desolate through Jesus' shed blood on the Cross, almost 40 years before the temple was torn down in 70 AD. That is also why "...the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom..." after Jesus had "...yielded up the ghost..." on the Cross (Matt 27:50-51). In 70 AD the Christians escaped, and were saved from the slaughter of the Romans, not even desolating the Christian community.
Though a significant and horrific event in 70 AD, the Roman Gentiles came back to slaughter another 600,000-750,000 Jews less than 65 years later, in the Bar Kokhba revolt of 132-135 AD.
Later in the Olivet Discourse we find:
Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
So Luke gives us another historical time pin. It would seem problematic indeed to suggest that the "times of the Gentiles" were fulfilled in 70 AD since the Roman Gentiles came back for a double dip of Jewish slaughter less than 65 years later. Let alone the list of Gentile armies from throughout the Christian era listed earlier. Blessedly, as Daniel's "times" seem to demonstrate - both mathematically and textually - the "times of the Gentiles" were fulfilled in 1967, when the Jews were restored to power and control of Jerusalem for the first time in over 2500 years. We read "... when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people..." - the end of the scattering of the power of the Jews - the only "holy people" of Daniel's day.
Jerusalem was temporarily desolated in 70 AD, again in 132 AD, and conquered again in 639 AD when Khalifah Omar marched into town during the Islamic First Jihad. The church was alive and well since history tells us that Bishop Sophronius was compelled to show Khalifah Omar around town. History has shown that nothing was more physically or spiritually desolating to Jerusalem than 1100 years of Islamization and accompanying exile of Christians and Jews. By the early 1800's there were just 550 residents. This is why the historical record of Jerusalem in first quarter of the 19th century is sketchy and anecdotal at best.
In "A History of the Jews" Paul Johnson writes on page 321: "Between 1827 and 1839, largely through British efforts, the population of Jerusalem rose from 550 to 5,500 and in all Palestine it topped 10,000 - the real beginning of the Jewish return to the Promised Land. In 1838 Palmerston appointed the first western vice-consul in Jerusalem, W.T. Young, and told him 'to afford protection to the Jews generally'."
Even 30 years later in 1867 Mark Twain described it thus: “ ...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.”
No surprise then when we find the founding verses on the Islamic abomination the Dome of the Rock read: O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning God save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is) better for you! - God is only One God. Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son.
When we read: Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains...
it becomes pretty clear that this would apply to all of the compassings of Jerusalem, but the desolation symbolized by the Dome of the Rock would seem confirmed when we consider the text and math of this verse:
Revelation 12:6 (KJV): And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.
It was 1260 "days" (as years) from the founding of the Dome of the Rock in 688, representing the exile of Jews and Christians, until the declaration of an independent Israel in 1948. It was 42 prophetic "months" from 688 to 1967 as the beast continued. The date of 688 is also confirmed mathematically and textually by Daniel's 1290, and the 1290 is confirmed by his 1335.
Within the traditional continuous-historic context of prophecy it is then easy to understand that the Islamic Mosque, the Dome of the Rock, is THE abomination of desolation that was "set up" and is "standing where it ought not" on the temple mount. Indeed desolation of the mount is the order of the day through Islamic prohibition of prayer, and the bringing of "Holy objects" like bibles, onto the mount. Not a very good fit with 2 Thessalonians "man of sin", as Darby contended, since he "sitteth" or is seated rather than "stands", and a man is not an "it". Nor would it seem a very apt description of the conflagration of 70 AD, particularly since that was not at all desolating to the Christian community. The Dome of the Rock would, however, seem a very apt symbol for Islam, as representing the "beast" of the "time of the end". The final kingdom that oppresses God's people, just as we see Islamic blasphemy stand in the holy place, we can also see Islamic desolation of 55 countries today, with two million slain in the Sudan alone.
R
RachelBibleStudent
Guest
this is an example of how the false 'day year principle' can be applied to arbitrary dates to make bible prophecy refer to anything you want...
R
RachelBibleStudent
Guest
the beast is the political system...the antichrist is the false religion...and the man of lawlessness is the figurehead...
L
Laodicea
Guest
The problem with applying the 1260 days to Islam is that it does not fit the prophecy of Daniel 7.
Daniel 7:7-8
(7) After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
(8) I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Daniel 7:23-25
(23) Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
(24) And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
(25) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
The 4th beast was Rome, the 10 horns came out of the 4th kingdom, that means the 10 horns are Roman in origin and the little horn comes from among them that means the little horn is Roman in origin which the 1260 days apply.
Western Rome fell in 476 AD and was divided into 10 parts making them Roman in origin and the little horn was to come up from among the 10 horns and would be Roman in origin and be different from the 10. The 10 horns are 10 kings while the little horn is not said to be a king.
There is only one power that came from western Europe just after the 10 divisions in 476 AD and was Roman in origin-The Papacy.
D
doulos
Guest
With textual and mathematical confirmation, in conjunction with the evening news, placing Islam in the center of eschatology, if our current chosen end-time understanding concludes otherwise are we really to expect that:
Yet a different billion and a half people will also be specifically antichrist as the most important fundamental ("shirk") of an as yet unknown European religion.
Yet a different billion and a half people will also follow a different, as yet unknown, European false prophet.
Yet a different religion will also "wear out the saints" by murdering Jews and Christians (Dan 7:25) - and by beheading.
Yet a different religion will also change the times - by creating its own calendar. (Daniel 7:25)
Yet a different religion will also seek to change laws - by ignoring the Sabbath as well as imposing Islamic Sharia law, in the place of legitimate laws of sovereign nations, throughout the world. (Daniel 7:25)
Yet a different religion will also build yet another abomination on the Temple Mount that will:
1) Blaspheme God The Most High - for 1300 years with mosaic inscriptions inside and out that read "Far be it from God's glory that he should have a Son".
2) Blaspheme God's name - blaspheme Yahweh by calling their god Allah.
3) Blaspheme God's tabernacle - by building the Dome of the Rock, with blasphemy written all over it, within 300 feet of where the Holy of Holies was kept.
Yet a different religion will also be marked with the number 666 = Bismillah = "in the name of Allah". Also Yahoo search - quran 666 - and find the "submission" sect that says the "Quran is the 666".
Yet a different religion will establish in a few years, what took Islam almost 1400 years to establish.
Are we really to believe that the 1.5 billion antichrist Muslims in antichrist Islam today, will all convert to a different as yet unknown European antichrist religion, operated by some as yet unknown antichrist charismatic European leader, and this in a period of just a few years?
Really?
Additionally John specifically indicated that the 8th beast has nothing to do with the Roman Empire, because that was the beast that "is", as he penned Revelation. He wrote that the 8th beast "is not" - that is to John - who was writing about the things that were, are and shall be - at the time of his writing.
Looks like a perfect fit!
A different religion was never going to deceive the Masses, it would always have to resemble the truth.
If i wanted to deceive the shopkeeper with fake money, i must make sure it resembles a legit $10.00 other wise he is not going to be deceived...
I would attempt to make it seem legit by staying close to its appearance.
islam is not doing this, they are simply being used by the evil agenda that seek to become gods.
Remember Abraham's son Isaac was to be the inheritor, what do you think happened to Ishmael's descendants who by "birth right" stake claim to the inheritance?.....
muslims believe that muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael, Abraham's son with the egyptian lady.
The evil Rebellion took advantage of this long, long ago.
Almighty Yahvah God said Isaac, and that is who decides everything.
The more you go against the word of Yahvah God the more your heart is hardened.
The koran will resemble the Bible up until they need to fulfill what these people desired.
These people have the koran and some will kill and die for it.
Anyone who accepts Salvation will have no desire to kill, only die for the most worthy cause.
Yes people are being attacked and killed around the world, but the question is:
Who created this religious system and why?...................
B
Bistabuster
Guest
No, they are not the same. The man of sin is us. We put ourselves as God. We don't need any special super being to be that. We got that one under control!
Abomination of Desolation. Did you read Mark 13:14 carefully? No? it says "Standing where IT ought not". It is not a person. That is a thing. An inanimate object.
Doulos got it right. There are ONLY 4 verses in Scripture that say the word antichrist five times. Also notice the word antichrist is not capitalized! He didn't say why the beast is a kingdom, nation or an empire. Dan 7 defines the beast as such.